Apple sets new standard in customer satisfaction

[AppleInsider]

Customer satisfaction in the personal computer industry suffered another series of declines last quarter, though one standout was Apple, Inc., which defied the trend by recording its largest gain ever, according to a new consumer satisfaction survey.

The American Customer Satisfaction Index second quarter report, released Tuesday from the University of Michigan’s National Quality Research Center, said Apple's score of 85 was not only a company best, but also "a new all-time high for the industry."

By comparison, the Mac maker's rivals combined for the second consecutive drop in overall customer satisfaction with the PC industry, which saw scores fall a full percentage point to a rating of 74, surrendering all gains made since 2005.

Apple's 8 percent leap puts 10 points between the company and its nearest rival, one of the largest gaps between first and second in any industry measured by ACSI.

"It’s hard not to be impressed with Apple," said Professor Claes Fornell, head of the ACSI. "This is product extension at its best where the new products, iPod and iPhone, are helping bring new customers to existing computer products. The fact that Apple is not dependent on the Windows Vista operating system hasn’t hurt either."

The industry aggregate decline was largely a result of customer dissatisfaction with Windows-based machines, namely those from Hewlett-Packard, Gateway, and Compaq, Fornell added. Each saw a 4 percent falloff in satisfaction, dropping their respective scores to 73, 72, and 70. One exception was Dell, which saw its score inch up a point to 75.

Meanwhile, customer satisfaction with the e-business category of websites surged 6 percent to an all-time high of 79.3, largely a result of achievements on the part of Google.

After slipping behind Yahoo! for the first time last year, the search giant surged an unparalleled 10 percent to leave all rivals in its wake, according to the ACSI. Google's score 86 also set a new standard for e-businesses and opened a formidable nine-point gap between its nearest competitor, Yahoo!, which fell 3 percent to score a 77.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[Mr. H]

So this survey was conducted before the MobileMe and iPhone 3G problems? Right?

That's an impressive score, but given Apple's problems it suggests to me that the consumers just have really low expectations of consumer electronics these days

[TenoBell]

Originally Posted by Mr. H

So this survey was conducted before the MobileMe and iPhone 3G problems? Right?

That's an impressive score, but given Apple's problems it suggests to me that the consumers just have really low expectations of consumer electronics these days

Consumer satisfaction does only measure whether a company has had problems or not. It also measures how well companies handled problems when they occur and leave the consumer feeling the problem was properly resolved.

[quinney]

This could be another measurement of people switching from Windows machines
to Macs, and then being comparatively more satisfied.

[cameronj]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Customer satisfaction in the personal computer industry suffered another series of declines last quarter, though one standout was Apple, Inc., which defied the trend by recording its largest gain ever, according to a new consumer satisfaction survey.

Certainly a good thing, but a leap that large suggests that there was some problem with the data.

It should, however, put into perspective the scope of the problems people tend to whine about incessantly on these boards. It becomes an echo chamber (both for praise and for discontent) but in the broader market, the problems are very minimal.

[VinitaBoy]

Originally Posted by Mr. H

So this survey was conducted before the MobileMe and iPhone 3G problems? Right?

That's an impressive score, but given Apple's problems it suggests to me that the consumers just have really low expectations of consumer electronics these days

Mr. H . . .

Please, please try to remember this little aphorism, for it will help you with the rest of your life:

"The greatest enemy of EXCELLENCE is not MEDIOCRITY. It is PERFECTION." Perfectionists are forever doomed to a life of disappointment and gloom.

FYI: A nationally syndicated consumer advocate in Denver (Tom Martino) often reminds his listeners that ALL--I repeat, ALL--companies make mistakes. The larger the company, the larger the mistakes. (Witness Microsoft VISTA.) The important measure of those companies is how they deal with problems AFTER they are brought to light.

As Apple grows, mistakes will--necessarily--arise more frequently and with more impact on consumers. That is inevitable, for the company is no longer a boutique, cult operation appealing to a very small minority. As consumers we must focus on how they deal with their errors and how they "make good" on them. So far, I've been more than pleased with their service. 'Tis pity if you have not.

[Xian Zhu Xuande]

Well said, VinitaBoy.

MobileMe users are using the present system for free right now. That is Apple's way of apologizing for the trouble some people are experiencing. iPhone users, on the other hand, are by and large extremely satisfied. I do not personally know a single iPhone user who is having real problems with their device, and I even know a mess of Apple employees.

2.0.2 cleared up my contact list/keyboard speed issues (a minor concern when weighed against the value of the product as a whole) and my reception has always been great. Backup has been taking a while since a failed App install, though, so I'm pretty curious about that.

[lkrupp]

I see that the "forever dissatisfied" are at it already trying to explain away any good survey results for Apple. The gloom-and doom crowd just can't get it through their depressed heads that the user discussion forums, blogs and such are a microcosm of the vocal minority. Every time I read some rant about some show-stopping, deal-breaking "bug" that just everyone HAS to be experiencing I look at my machine and can't seem to find it.

[cdnalsi]

And the source for this article is?

[bryankia]

Apple is not selling a commodity but it is being compared to them. Dell, IBM, HP are all selling about the same thing. No disrespect they have a plan and an audience. Apple is charging MORE for their product but what do you know they are giving us back a better experiences both when the product is in use and often times when the product breaks down. I called apple with a iPhone ear bud that was not working. they seemed genuinely sorry and made it right (as in I had new buds the next day!)

Pay more get more.. kind of simple

Bryan

[TenoBell]

Originally Posted by cdnalsi

And the source for this article is?

The American Consumer Satisfaction Index as is stated in the article.

[Mr. H]

Originally Posted by VinitaBoy

Mr. H . . .

Please, please try to remember this little aphorism, for it will help you with the rest of your life:

"The greatest enemy of EXCELLENCE is not MEDIOCRITY. It is PERFECTION." Perfectionists are forever doomed to a life of disappointment and gloom.

FYI: A nationally syndicated consumer advocate in Denver (Tom Martino) often reminds his listeners that ALL--I repeat, ALL--companies make mistakes. The larger the company, the larger the mistakes. (Witness Microsoft VISTA.) The important measure of those companies is how they deal with problems AFTER they are brought to light.

As Apple grows, mistakes will--necessarily--arise more frequently and with more impact on consumers. That is inevitable, for the company is no longer a boutique, cult operation appealing to a very small minority. As consumers we must focus on how they deal with their errors and how they "make good" on them. So far, I've been more than pleased with their service. 'Tis pity if you have not.

Well said, good post.

I'm actually an upbeat, optimistic kind of guy in "real life", believe it or not . When I think of Apple I don't get all that gloomy; they do on the whole a better job than anyone else and there's no way on earth I'd want to use anything other than OS X on my home machine.

However, this doesn't stop me from being a little disappointed by Apple's recent mis-steps and longer-term issues with the attention-to-detail they paid to OS X's GUI; much of it is excellent but there's bits and pieces which could do with more polish and I fear they will never receive it.

[Hogan]

Originally Posted by TenoBell

Consumer satisfaction does only measure whether a company has had problems or not. It also measures how well companies handled problems when they occur and leave the consumer feeling the problem was properly resolved.

Very true, but to be quite fair, Apple has not only failed to resolve obvious problems, it has failed to even admit of their existence. Their wall of silence does little to assure anyone.

I will not speak for others but I have a much lower regard for Apple and the manner in which they have support their customers after the release of iPhone 3G.

Since ownership, I have been affllicted with dreadful iPhone 3G issues including OS freezes, just a ridiculous number of Safari crashes, slowness but the biggest issue for me was that a N95 could make a call in the same room on the same carrier at the same time (even with the same SIM) while the iPhone 3G consistently gave "No service." The dropped calls are just ridiculous, while the N95 could make and receive calls without a problem. The iPhone was exchnaged, and a 2nd returned again permanently when I experinced the same problems and when the Apple "Genius bar" people denied that they knew of any problem, and simply encouraged me to turn off 3G.

And I am not alone... ttp://blogs.eweek.com/applewatch/content/iphone/is_it_the_phone_or_the_network.html

[skottichan]

Originally Posted by Hogan

Very true, but to be quite fair, Apple has not only failed to resolve obvious problems, it has failed to even admit of their existence. Their wall of silence does little to assure anyone.

I will not speak for others but I have a much lower regard for Apple and the manner in which they have support their customers after the release of iPhone 3G.

Since ownership, I have been affllicted with dreadful iPhone 3G issues including OS freezes, just a ridiculous number of Safari crashes, slowness but the biggest issue for me was that a N95 could make a call in the same room on the same carrier at the same time (even with the same SIM) while the iPhone 3G consistently gave "No service." The dropped calls are just ridiculous, while the N95 could make and receive calls without a problem. The iPhone was exchnaged, and a 2nd returned again permanently when I experinced the same problems and when the Apple "Genius bar" people denied that they knew of any problem, and simply encouraged me to turn off 3G.

And I am not alone... ttp://blogs.eweek.com/applewatch/content/iphone/is_it_the_phone_or_the_network.html

Of course you're not alone, but siting blogs doesn't change the fact that at maximum, only 3% (or less) of iPhones are having these problems, well within accepted tolerances for personal electronics. As Vinita said, with the internet as it is, you create a microcosm where you get the same group of people complaining about their dissatisfaction (instead of y'know, using the support system Apple offers) over and over. It's like when people talk about the "vast number" of complaints on Apple's support boards, when you look at said complaints, you see the same names posting over and over and over. They have every possible problem known to the system, it almost makes you wonder why they continue to buy Apple products if they have all these problems (or if they own the products at all).

[GQB]

Originally Posted by bryankia

Pay more get more.. kind of simple

Bryan

Indeed.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by cameronj

Certainly a good thing, but a leap that large suggests that there was some problem with the data.

No, it doesn't. Changes like this usually mean that eople are looking at things in a different way. Several years ago, few people looked at Apple products, and Apple was just marketing in the computer area, and mostly to current customers.

Now, with other, more consumer oriented products, this has changed.

It should, however, put into perspective the scope of the problems people tend to whine about incessantly on these boards. It becomes an echo chamber (both for praise and for discontent) but in the broader market, the problems are very minimal.

An example with my new iPhone is that I'm having the reception problems that others are having. Very frustrating at times. But, despite that, when reception is working well, the internet functionality is simply amazing. So is the game playing ability. Other programs such as the audio spectrum analyzer, and others are not available on any other comparable platform.

Even the 3D performance is mind boggling right now. I don't know of any other phone with accelerated 3D graphics like this. Try the free game Moonlight Mahjong Lite. The Open GL acceleration is amazing!. You can move the board sideways, up and down. You can rotate it, not only around its horizontal axis, but around its vertical axis as well, which changes the angle of view, just like any 3D program does with camera view. You can expand or shrink the board. It's all drawn in vector, so that the tiles, as well as the symbols on them, gain detail as they are expanded. It really has to be seen to be believed!

These factors make a satisfaction level very high for a product with some remaining problems. It's why it's not hard to understand why Apple's numbers have moved up as much as they did.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by VinitaBoy

Mr. H . . .

Please, please try to remember this little aphorism, for it will help you with the rest of your life:

"The greatest enemy of EXCELLENCE is not MEDIOCRITY. It is PERFECTION." Perfectionists are forever doomed to a life of disappointment and gloom.

FYI: A nationally syndicated consumer advocate in Denver (Tom Martino) often reminds his listeners that ALL--I repeat, ALL--companies make mistakes. The larger the company, the larger the mistakes. (Witness Microsoft VISTA.) The important measure of those companies is how they deal with problems AFTER they are brought to light.

As Apple grows, mistakes will--necessarily--arise more frequently and with more impact on consumers. That is inevitable, for the company is no longer a boutique, cult operation appealing to a very small minority. As consumers we must focus on how they deal with their errors and how they "make good" on them. So far, I've been more than pleased with their service. 'Tis pity if you have not.

Very true. Good points.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by Hogan

Very true, but to be quite fair, Apple has not only failed to resolve obvious problems, it has failed to even admit of their existence. Their wall of silence does little to assure anyone.

I will not speak for others but I have a much lower regard for Apple and the manner in which they have support their customers after the release of iPhone 3G.

Since ownership, I have been affllicted with dreadful iPhone 3G issues including OS freezes, just a ridiculous number of Safari crashes, slowness but the biggest issue for me was that a N95 could make a call in the same room on the same carrier at the same time (even with the same SIM) while the iPhone 3G consistently gave "No service." The dropped calls are just ridiculous, while the N95 could make and receive calls without a problem. The iPhone was exchnaged, and a 2nd returned again permanently when I experinced the same problems and when the Apple "Genius bar" people denied that they knew of any problem, and simply encouraged me to turn off 3G.

And I am not alone... ttp://blogs.eweek.com/applewatch/content/iphone/is_it_the_phone_or_the_network.html

Consumers know that Apple doesn't comment much. That's nothing new. They are also all too familiar with most companies, which while they do comment, often dissemble. So the non commenting from Apple, until they find fixes, is often though of as positive. I think some people make too much of it.

The only problem I've had with our three new phones is the signal strength problem on internet connections. No dropped calls, so far. No crashes with any Apple programs, or any of the 19 I've downloaded for free, or bought.

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by quinney

This could be another measurement of people switching from Windows machines
to Macs, and then being comparatively more satisfied.

I agree totally. Also, people that bought the original iPhones were given new ones multiple times over whenver they had a problem, even if they busted them obviously themselves, to insure it's initial success.
Anyone who remembers Apple from over 3-5 years ago remembers when AppleCare wasn't outsource to India (no offense) and you could actually talk to someone with a .Mac question. And the genius bar was actually a pleasant experience.
Now that was when Apple had great customer service

[melgross]

Originally Posted by teckstud

I agree totally. Also, people that bought the original iPhones were given new ones multiple times over whenver they had a problem, even if they busted them obviously themselves, to insure it's initial success.
Anyone who remembers Apple from over 3-5 years ago remembers when AppleCare wasn't outsource to India (no offense) and you could actually talk to someone with a .Mac question. And the genius bar was actually a pleasant experience.
Now that was when Apple had great customer service

Whatever thread we're on, you are always negative. Most people don't find these "problems" to be true, and the rising level of satisfaction supports that. You seem to be riding into the wind.

[mjtomlin]

While there is no such thing as a perfect product, Apple's products have always been perfect for me and I'm grateful for having the option of choosing their products over others. In the 20+ years I've owned Macs and other Apple products rarely have I experienced serious issues and those I had, were fixed without the need of running through hoops to get it done.

I think the biggest reason for the jump in satisfaction comes from all the support options you get from the local Apple Stores. I don't believe any other consumer electronics manufacturer has anything like it? Which further proves Apple is willing to stand behind its products and make sure its users and customers have the best experience using their products.

Everyone likes to point to the barrage of complaints posted on blogs, message boards and Apple's own support forums and to the regurgitated online news articles as an indicator that the sky is falling. The problem is most people only voice their opinion when they're having issues, so it seems like everyone is having a problem when in fact it could only be a small percentage of the over all user base.

[skottichan]

Originally Posted by teckstud

I agree totally. Also, people that bought the original iPhones were given new ones multiple times over whenver they had a problem, even if they busted them obviously themselves, to insure it's initial success.
Anyone who remembers Apple from over 3-5 years ago remembers when AppleCare wasn't outsource to India (no offense) and you could actually talk to someone with a .Mac question. And the genius bar was actually a pleasant experience.
Now that was when Apple had great customer service

What the hell are you talking about, I've never once had a problem with Genius Bar, or phone support for that matter. If I got a person of Hindi nationality, I sure as hell didn't hear an accent. That's one of the things my 62 year old father praises most about Apple, whenever he has to call he can easily understand the person on the other end of the line.

[Hogan]

Originally Posted by skottichan

Of course you're not alone, but siting blogs doesn't change the fact that at maximum, only 3% (or less) of iPhones are having these problems, well within accepted tolerances for personal electronics. As Vinita said, with the internet as it is, you create a microcosm where you get the same group of people complaining about their dissatisfaction (instead of y'know, using the support system Apple offers) over and over. It's like when people talk about the "vast number" of complaints on Apple's support boards, when you look at said complaints, you see the same names posting over and over and over. They have every possible problem known to the system, it almost makes you wonder why they continue to buy Apple products if they have all these problems (or if they own the products at all).

So where did this "at a maximum, only 3% or less" number? There hasn't been anything from Apple on this, so are you just pulling number out of the air?

For the record, I know of 3 people who have returned an iPhone 3G in Manhattan. It's a statistically irrelevent sample size, I know, but I will not be surprised if the true numbers bear substantial disatisfaction. 3 of us own Macs, and our recent experience has certainly soured us on buying Apple products.

[awmawm]

I still do not have any Apple products but plenty of friends and colleagues who do. Even though they also had the experience of failed hardware, none of them ever had a complaint about customer service once they needed it. Treating customers like customers in case of a problem goes a long way...

[skottichan]

Originally Posted by Hogan

So where did this "at a maximum, only 3% or less" number? There hasn't been anything from Apple on this, so are you just pulling number out of the air?

For the record, I know of 3 people who have returned an iPhone 3G in Manhattan. It's a statistically irrelevent sample size, I know, but I will not be surprised if the true numbers bear substantial disatisfaction. 3 of us own Macs, and our recent experience has certainly soured us on buying Apple products.

I love when I have to do research for people like you. If you actually read some of the articles posted here, instead of only coming on to complain, you'd know where I got the numbers from. With that said, I'll throw you a bone.

"An article on the iPhone 3G by BusinessWeek cited unnamed sources to report, "the problem is affecting 2% to 3% of iPhone traffic, the people say. That compares with a dropped-call rate of around 1% for all traffic for AT&T." A source for the dropped call rate at AT&T wasn't given.
"
And here's where I got it, for more context.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...omplaints.html


Secondly, oh noes, you know 3 whole people who've had the problem in a city of roughly 10 million. I am amazed at how many people seem to think that all tech devices have to be perfect. As automated things are, there is still this wonderful thing called "human error", you should really look it up.


Seriously though, this has to do with their customer support, and it's rating. This has nothing to do with your assumed slights Hogan. You need to realize, the sun doesn't rise or set on your command. If you don't like your Apple experience, take your business elsewhere and eat a big jar of STFU. In the four short years I've owned my big pile of Apple products, my parents' 2 years, my girlfriend's 12 years, my little brother's 15 years and his girlfriend's 2 years, none of us have had a single problem with Apple Support. We give them 5 stars.

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by melgross

Whatever thread we're on, you are always negative. Most people don't find these "problems" to be true, and the rising level of satisfaction supports that. You seem to be riding into the wind.

Man are you clueless.
"the rising level of satisfaction"- have you read any of the threads in the last 2 days re MobileMe and iPhone connection problems? And I never even mentioned those.

I'm not negative but you're delusional.

[TenoBell]

Originally Posted by Hogan

Very true, but to be quite fair, Apple has not only failed to resolve obvious problems, it has failed to even admit of their existence. Their wall of silence does little to assure anyone.

If you are referencing the 3G issue as Apple's failure to resolve problems. Do you feel that 5 weeks is beyond enough time to reasonably resolve the issue?

The wall of silence is just par of the course with Apple. Issuing 2 bug updates since the launch of 2.0 shows they are working on resolving the issues.

[TenoBell]

Originally Posted by teckstud

Man are you clueless.
"the rising level of satisfaction"- have you read any of the threads in the last 2 days re MobileMe and iPhone connection problems? And I never even mentioned those.

I'm not negative but you're delusional.

Internet lists are not really a credible source. Their is no way to realistically gauge the number of people a problem effects. The people having no problems are not going to complain. Their is no way to know the number of trolls who simply hate Apple and are motivated to spread misinformation.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by teckstud

Man are you clueless.
"the rising level of satisfaction"- have you read any of the threads in the last 2 days re MobileMe and iPhone connection problems? And I never even mentioned those.

I'm not negative but you're delusional.

No, you're the one with the problems. You are NEVER anything but negative. Well, maybe you've written a couple of positive posts somewhere.

You also don't understand what satisfaction means. It DOESN'T mean that companies aren't having problems. It means that their customers, by a wide margin, are satisfied with the products in the main. not that they are 100% happy. No one is ever 100% happy.

Apple is working on these problems. I would imagine, that despite some people who will always get out of control about it, most people will understand that, and are willing to cut them some slack.

You won't, because you never do.

[manfrommars]

Originally Posted by lkrupp

I see that the "forever dissatisfied" are at it already trying to explain away any good survey results for Apple. The gloom-and doom crowd just can't get it through their depressed heads that the user discussion forums, blogs and such are a microcosm of the vocal minority. Every time I read some rant about some show-stopping, deal-breaking "bug" that just everyone HAS to be experiencing I look at my machine and can't seem to find it.

This sentiment has reared its foul head one too many times. Forums are an excellent place (and sometimes the ONLY place) for us to discuss software/hardware problems we encounter. The hope is that if someone else out there has been through the same thing, then we can combine our efforts to find a solution. Forums are also an excellent place to call out companies (like Apple) when they do something stupid (like leaving users in the dark during the mobileme meltdown).

It's not important whether it's 1% or 90% of others that experience the same issue. If 10 people out there encounter problems, they should be silent because the rest of us are fine?

I read these forums in part to see what problems people encounter. That helps me make informed purchases. If I encounter problems myself, these forums can be invaluable for finding out if others are having similar problems and what they are doing to solve them.

The last thing I need to weed through are the apologist posts from the brigades of Apple cheerleaders out there. They say "Apple can do no wrong." They say "Stop whining." They say "It's probably your own fault that your phone is cracked." ENOUGH. The so-called 'whiners' have legitimate concerns and they CAN and WILL voice them in these forums.

Apple is not your girlfriend. It's a corporation, and when it craps on the rug, it needs to have its nose rubbed in it.

I vehemently encourage all of you 'whiners' to proceed to air your grievances. This is how we help each other out, and if that's not possible, then our combined voices - just maybe - can make the mighty Apple help us all.

[TenoBell]

Originally Posted by manfrommars

This sentiment has reared its foul head one too many times. Forums are an excellent place (and sometimes the ONLY place) for us to discuss software/hardware problems we encounter. The hope is that if someone else out there has been through the same thing, then we can combine our efforts to find a solution. Forums are also an excellent place to call out companies (like Apple) when they do something stupid (like leaving users in the dark during the mobileme meltdown).

It's not important whether it's 1% or 90% of others that experience the same issue. If 10 people out there encounter problems, they should be silent because the rest of us are fine?


I vehemently encourage all of you 'whiners' to proceed to air your grievances. This is how we help each other out, and if that's not possible, then our combined voices - just maybe - can make the mighty Apple help us all.

I can agree that these forums can be a good place to actually find helpful information to problems. And it is good to know that you are not the only one that is suffering from some certain problem.

Complaining for the sake of complaining doesn't really help anyone. Whenever the topic of MobileMe comes up their comes the same chorus of people complaining that Mobile Me is crap and should have never been released. Saying that over and over again does nothing to help anyone with problems. As Apple has openly acknowledged the flaws of MobileMe, have given user 3 months of free service, and have pledged to fix the issues. People still go on with the same repetitive and ultimately useless rants about how bad it is. At this point what purpose does complaining with no useful information serve?

[skottichan]

Originally Posted by manfrommars

This sentiment has reared its foul head one too many times. Forums are an excellent place (and sometimes the ONLY place) for us to discuss software/hardware problems we encounter. The hope is that if someone else out there has been through the same thing, then we can combine our efforts to find a solution. Forums are also an excellent place to call out companies (like Apple) when they do something stupid (like leaving users in the dark during the mobileme meltdown).

It's not important whether it's 1% or 90% of others that experience the same issue. If 10 people out there encounter problems, they should be silent because the rest of us are fine?

I read these forums in part to see what problems people encounter. That helps me make informed purchases. If I encounter problems myself, these forums can be invaluable for finding out if others are having similar problems and what they are doing to solve them.

The last thing I need to weed through are the apologist posts from the brigades of Apple cheerleaders out there. They say "Apple can do no wrong." They say "Stop whining." They say "It's probably your own fault that your phone is cracked." ENOUGH. The so-called 'whiners' have legitimate concerns and they CAN and WILL voice them in these forums.

Apple is not your girlfriend. It's a corporation, and when it craps on the rug, it needs to have its nose rubbed in it.

I vehemently encourage all of you 'whiners' to proceed to air your grievances. This is how we help each other out, and if that's not possible, then our combined voices - just maybe - can make the mighty Apple help us all.

I'm sorry, there is a HUGE difference between; elaborating a problem and helping those who've had similar, and the inane whining that goes on around most forums.

I'd be a lot more sympathetic if it wasn't a group of people going on about how Apple is a horrible company because they (the person) had a problem. Instead of going to the source and getting the problem fixed, no, they come here and whine about how Apple is this terrible company for "releasing substandard products". Even if you were to count up every individual person whining (even after fixes have been explained), it's never a widespread problem. Even with all the "me toos" that show up out of the woodwork.

Originally Posted by TenoBell

I can agree that these forums can be a good place to actually find helpful information to problems. And it is good to know that you are not the only one that is suffering from some certain problem.

Complaining for the sake of complaining doesn't really help anyone. Whenever the topic of MobileMe comes up their comes the same chorus of people complaining that Mobile Me is crap and should have never been released. Saying that over and over again does nothing to help anyone with problems. As Apple has openly acknowledged the flaws of MobileMe, have given user 3 months of free service, and have pledged to fix the issues. People still go on with the same repetitive and ultimately useless rants about how bad it is. At this point what purpose does complaining with no useful information serve?

And you made the point far more eloquently than I ever could.

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by melgross

No, you're the one with the problems. You are NEVER anything but negative. Well, maybe you've written a couple of positive posts somewhere.

You also don't understand what satisfaction means. It DOESN'T mean that companies aren't having problems. It means that their customers, by a wide margin, are satisfied with the products in the main. not that they are 100% happy. No one is ever 100% happy.

Apple is working on these problems. I would imagine, that despite some people who will always get out of control about it, most people will understand that, and are willing to cut them some slack.

You won't, because you never do.

Did you read what you just wrote because you like totally just contradicted yourself in your first paragraph.

Who's talking about satisfaction with products? Companies aren't having problems??- I only mentioned customer service. ????

[melgross]

Originally Posted by manfrommars

I read these forums in part to see what problems people encounter. That helps me make informed purchases. If I encounter problems myself, these forums can be invaluable for finding out if others are having similar problems and what they are doing to solve them.

Most of us agree with that. We all mention our problems as well as our triumphs. That's not the problem with some posters.

The last thing I need to weed through are the apologist posts from the brigades of Apple cheerleaders out there. They say "Apple can do no wrong." They say "Stop whining." They say "It's probably your own fault that your phone is cracked." ENOUGH. The so-called 'whiners' have legitimate concerns and they CAN and WILL voice them in these forums.

Apple is not your girlfriend. It's a corporation, and when it craps on the rug, it needs to have its nose rubbed in it.

I vehemently encourage all of you 'whiners' to proceed to air your grievances. This is how we help each other out, and if that's not possible, then our combined voices - just maybe - can make the mighty Apple help us all.

You're lacking the understanding of what it is with what we often call "whiners".

It's not the discussing of problems—I've been mentioning, and detailing, my problems with my iPhone's reception, for example. It's the negativity in these posts that we object to. we have some people on these forums who rarely have anything good to say. This is even when they don't have the products being discussed. That's often obvious, as what they say can be seen as something they've read, but not experienced themselves.

What we object to is the "Apple sucks" type of posts, as opposed to the "I'm having this problem" kind of posts.

This has nothing to do with your Apple as your "girlfriend" remark, which in itself, is silly, as I'm sure you realize.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by teckstud

Did you read what you just wrote because you like totally just contradicted yourself in your first paragraph.

Who's talking about satisfaction with products? Companies aren't having problems??- I only mentioned customer service. ????

Yeah, you're a big joke too.

I was trying to be kind.

It's all a part of the same company, products, and customer service. Apple's customer service constantly gets the highest, by a good margin, ratings.

You actually did refer to "problems" rather than customer service:

have you read any of the threads in the last 2 days re MobileMe and iPhone connection problems?

Do you read your own posts?

[amac4me]

I like the 10-point difference between #1 Apple and #2 Dell.

[VertiGoGo]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Customer satisfaction in the personal computer industry suffered another series of declines last quarter, though one standout was Apple, Inc., which defied the trend by recording its largest gain ever, according to a new consumer satisfaction survey.

The American Customer Satisfaction Index second quarter report, released Tuesday from the University of Michigan’s National Quality Research Center, said Apple's score of 85 was not only a company best, but also "a new all-time high for the industry."

It's a good thing they didn't poll me - Apple's rating would have dropped like a stone.

While I will continue to buy Apple products because I can't stand Windows, more often than not I've had little more than lame service, stalling and refusals to assist (for a variety of reasons) from Apple customer service each time I have called them.

For the record, I'm not one of those yelling, screaming, I'm-never-gonna-buy-Apple-again-unless-you-give-me-a-free-Mac types. The poor customer service is particularly frustrating given that their reps can see my buying trends and all my previous calls for help.

G3 PowerBook - My first Mac and my first hard drive failure ever.

eMac - Screen issues. Apple refused to help and wouldn't even acknowledge the issue.

iMac G5 - Power and logic board defect. Apple repaired it under warranty. Several months later the same problem and defect happened again. Apple didn't want to repair it for me at first. After arguing my case for a couple weeks, they agreed to fix it. The exact same problem happened again, for a third time, a few months after the second repair. I asked for a new system at this point because it is unacceptable to have to keep repairing the same unit over and over. Apple refused.

Airport Express (1st gen) - Was faulty out of the box and had to be replaced.

Mac mini - No issues (finally!)

Time Capsule - Bought in March '08 and it hasn't worked from the start. WiFi dropped out all the time, it wouldn't backup ANY of my Macs. It also overheated to the point of giving yourself a burn if you touched it. Apple is only now, after months of calls to them and few callbacks from them when promised, getting around to replacing the unit.

Black MacBook (1st Gen) - Complete hard drive failure after 18-months (I missed the AppleCare deadline) and the trackpad button has stopped working as well. It took Apple almost two weeks of my repeated calls and requests to escalate to supervisors before they finally agreed to replace the hard drive for me (because the could "see my repeat customer history"), but added that I had to pay for labour. I am also still waiting on them to let me know if they will replace the button for my trackpad. Sigh...

While I believe this level of hardware failure is a really unfortunate coincidence for me, I also strongly believe that Apple should be way more willing to step-up and help their customers out when clear hardware issues creep up...particularly with such alarmingly frequency for a single customer.

[sequitur]

The tenor of this thread reminds me of Winston Churchill's statement regarding Democracy.

“Democracy is a terrible form of government...but all the others are so much worse!” —Churchill

Apple may not be perfect, but all the others are so much worse!

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by bryankia

Pay more get more.. kind of simple

The logic is sound but studies have shown that for the same HW Macs are on par or cheaper than other competitors, especially as you go higher end. It's the cheapest Mac vs. cheapest Dell/HP that throw people off.

Originally Posted by melgross

An example with my new iPhone is that I'm having the reception problems that others are having.

Did anything change after the update? I'm guessing no, but with 3 iPhones to check you have a better shot as seeing variances.

Even the 3D performance is mind boggling right now. I don't know of any other phone with accelerated 3D graphics like this.

I know the iPhone kills the PSP on processing but I wonder if it also beats it on 3D capabilities.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by VertiGoGo

It's a good thing they didn't poll me - Apple's rating would have dropped like a stone.

While I will continue to buy Apple products because I can't stand Windows, more often than not I've had little more than lame service, stalling and refusals to assist (for a variety of reasons) from Apple customer service each time I have called them.

For the record, I'm not one of those yelling, screaming, I'm-never-gonna-buy-Apple-again-unless-you-give-me-a-free-Mac types. The poor customer service is particularly frustrating given that their reps can see my buying trends and all my previous calls for help.

G3 PowerBook - My first Mac and my first hard drive failure ever.

eMac - Screen issues. Apple refused to help and wouldn't even acknowledge the issue.

iMac G5 - Power and logic board defect. Apple repaired it under warranty. Several months later the same problem and defect happened again. Apple didn't want to repair it for me at first. After arguing my case for a couple weeks, they agreed to fix it. The exact same problem happened again, for a third time, a few months after the second repair. I asked for a new system at this point because it is unacceptable to have to keep repairing the same unit over and over. Apple refused.

Airport Express (1st gen) - Was faulty out of the box and had to be replaced.

Mac mini - No issues (finally!)

Time Capsule - Bought in March '08 and it hasn't worked from the start. WiFi dropped out all the time, it wouldn't backup ANY of my Macs. It also overheated to the point of giving yourself a burn if you touched it. Apple is only now, after months of calls to them and few callbacks from them when promised, getting around to replacing the unit.

Black MacBook (1st Gen) - Complete hard drive failure after 18-months (I missed the AppleCare deadline) and the trackpad button has stopped working as well. It took Apple almost two weeks of my repeated calls and requests to escalate to supervisors before they finally agreed to replace the hard drive for me (because the could "see my repeat customer history"), but added that I had to pay for labour. I am also still waiting on them to let me know if they will replace the button for my trackpad. Sigh...

While I believe this level of hardware failure is a really unfortunate coincidence for me, I also strongly believe that Apple should be way more willing to step-up and help their customers out when clear hardware issues creep up...particularly with such alarmingly frequency for a single customer.

That's very unusual. I've had problems with Apple products, but the consistency with which you seem to have them is amazing.

There have been a number of problems over the years which turned out to be either design problems, or major part defects. After a while, I suppose when Apple gets enough of these problems in and understands that it is something other than a random failure, they usually offer an extended warrantee on those machines. I you are unlucky enough to be one of the first, you may not get that treatment.

At least you were able to convince them to do repairs.

The question here is how would Apple stack up against most other vendors?