Adobe introduces Creative Suite 4 product family

[AppleInsider]

Adobe on Tuesday officially announced its Creative Suite 4 product family, a new series of media applications scheduled to begin shipping next month with more tightly integrated workflow solutions aimed at advancing the creative process across print, Web, mobile, interactive, film and video production.

The San Jose-based software developer said the release, billed as its "biggest" ever, features new levels of integration and expressiveness for Flash technology across the entire product line, which includes Adobe Creative Suite 4 Design editions, Creative Suite 4 Web editions, Creative Suite 4 Production Premium, Creative Suite 4 Master Collection, as well as 13 point products, 14 integrated technologies and seven services.

Photoshop CS4 with GPU acceleration

Photoshop CS4 will cost $699 and take advantage of the latest graphics processing unit (GPU) hardware to deliver improved performance, such as a smoother pan and zoom experience, allowing users to easily edit images at the highest magnification while maintaining clarity.

A new Canvas Rotation tool was also designed to make it easier to rotate and work on an image from any angle, while a Content-Aware Scaling feature provides a way to intelligently size and scale images with a simple drag of the mouse. At the same time, new Auto-align and Auto-blend modes generate composites based on extended depth of field and 360 degree panoramas now with seamless tones and colors.

The new version of Photoshop also sports a new "clutter-free" unified application frame with a tab-based interface and self-adjusting panels that provide quicker access to advanced tools and a more fluid way to interact with the application.

Adobe said finding, previewing and managing image assets are enhanced by Adobe Bridge CS4, which offers faster start-up performance and speedier transfer of images to Photoshop CS4. New path-bar navigation and workspace selection buttons across the top of the Bridge window should let users quickly jump to the right display for every task. Also included are new Camera Import controls, visual folder navigation, and a Carousel View for larger image-group selections.

Photoshop CS4 Extended

Photoshop CS4 Extended will retail for $999 and include all the new features of Photoshop CS4 plus the ability to manipulate 3D imagery, such as painting directly on 3D models and surfaces, merging 2-D files onto 3D images, and animating 3D objects.

The new 3D engine has been rebuilt from the ground up, Adobe said, to provide faster performance, allow editing of properties like light and the ability to create more realistic renderings with a new high-quality ray-tracer. Video professionals will also have the ability to turn any 3D object into a video display zone and can animate 3D objects and properties. In addition, the core motion graphics editing has been improved with more efficient single-key shortcuts, the company said.

InDesign CS4

A new version of Adobe's InDesign page layout program will retail for $699 and include a Live Preflight feature that highlights potential production problems in real-time from within the layout and directs users to the problem area to resolve the issue. A customizable Links panel will let users to find, sort, and manage placed files in a document, view attributes such as scale, resolution and rotation -- and identify files faster using thumbnails.

Designers can export InDesign CS4 documents as an XFL file and then open them in Adobe Flash CS4 Professional to add interactivity, animation, and navigation. Alternatively, Adobe said designers can produce interactive brochures, dynamic presentations, and other online materials by adding page transitions, interactive buttons, and hyperlinks to documents and then exporting them as SWF files -- for playback by the Adobe Flash Player -- or interactive PDF files.

InDesign CS4 also includes new productivity enhancing features that make it easier to create and manage long documents such as manuals and textbooks. The new Conditional Text feature lets users quickly produce multiple versions of a document for different uses such as multi-lingual documents or Teacher/Student materials. Designers can apply conditions to selected paragraphs, words or characters and then hide or show that text depending on the required context. Additional time-saving advancements are provided by a new Cross-References feature that simplifies the writing, production and management of long form documents by dynamically updating referenced text as content is changed or moved within a document.

InDesign CS4 also includes Adobe InCopy CS4 and InDesign CS4 Server, which can be customized, scaled and extended to meet the evolving needs of publishers.

To solve specific workflow challenges, Adobe is introducing IDML (InDesign Markup Language), an open, extensible XML representation of InDesign documents that allows third-party developers and systems integrators to programmatically create, modify and deconstruct InDesign documents outside InDesign or InDesign Server — using standard XML editing tools.

Creative Suite 4 Design Premium

Creative Suite 4 Design Premium will cost $1799 for new users, $599 for CS3 Design Premium users, and $799 for users of Creative Suite 2.X and 1.X, Adobe Studio 8 and Adobe Studio MX 2004. It includes Adobe InDesign CS4, Adobe Photoshop CS4 Extended, Adobe Illustrator CS4, Adobe Flash CS4 Professional, Adobe Dreamweaver CS4, Adobe Acrobat 9 Pro and the newly integrated Adobe Fireworks CS4 for quickly prototyping websites and applications.

A new version of Adobe Creative Suite 4 Design Standard will also be available for $1399 with the standard version of Photoshop CS4, and without Adobe Flash CS4 Professional, Adobe Dreamweaver CS4, and Adobe Fireworks CS4.

Creative Suite 4 Web Premium

The new version of Adobe's Web design and development bundle Creative Suite 4 Web Premium will sell for $1699. Upgrade pricing start at $599 from Creative Suite 3 and $799 from Creative Suite 2.X and 1.X, Adobe Studio 8 and Adobe Studio MX 2004. For a limited time, however, validly licensed customers of any version of Adobe Creative Suite Design, Web and Production Premium will be able to upgrade to Creative Suite 4 for the CS3 upgrade price

Creative Suite 4 Web Premium includes Adobe Fireworks CS4, Adobe Dreamweaver CS4, Adobe Flash CS4 Professional, Adobe Photoshop CS4 Extended, Adobe Illustrator CS4, Adobe Contribute CS4, Adobe Device Central CS4, Adobe Soundbooth CS4, and Adobe Acrobat 9 Professional software.

A version of Adobe CS4 Web Standard will also be available for $999 and lack Photoshop CS4, Illustrator CS4, Acrobat 9, and Soundbooth.

Creative Suite 4 Production Premium

Adobe Creative Suite 4 Production Premium edition will sell for $1699. Prices for upgrading to Creative Suite 4 Production Premium from CS3 will be $599 and from previous versions will be $799. For a limited time, licensed customers of any version of Adobe Production Studio are eligible for the $599 upgrade price.

The bundle includes Adobe After Effects CS4 Professional, Adobe Premiere Pro CS4, Adobe Encore CS4, Adobe Photoshop CS4 Extended, Adobe Illustrator CS4, Adobe Flash CS4 Professional, Adobe Soundbooth CS4 and Adobe OnLocation CS4 -- now redesigned to natively support Intel-based Macs.



Creative Suite 4 Master Collection

Adobe Creative Suite 4 Master Collection includes every component of the aforementioned suits and is priced at $2499. Upgrades start at $899.

Availability

Adobe is currently taking pre-orders for all Creative Suite 4.0 bundles via its US online store. The company also operates online stores in the United Kingdom, France, Sweden, and Germany.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[satchmo]

$599 for CS3 Design Premium users?
Sorry, that's way too much. I think I'll stick with CS3.

[wbravenboer]

$ 599,- for an upgrade?? In Holland for the English version it is $ 1137,-!
Guess we'll be sticking with CS3 for a few more years....

[sausage&Onion]

Wow. Absurdly expensive, AND with such crappy package design? Kudos Adobe, kudos.

[irnchriz]

$599 isn't too bad considering what we make on website design. That would be paid out of the profit from one site for us. We will probably test it on one of our backup Mac's and if its a big improvement over CS3 speed wise then we will purchase it.

[Virgil-TB2]

Absolutely ridiculous prices of course, but here's what I noticed ...

How the heck can you trust DESIGN software from a company that thinks that this piece of poop below, is a great new logo for their products? If you came up with this in design class you would get a C at best and probably be made an example of before the class. It's like something someone would do in grade 10 or something.




Ugh!

[bpatton]

All fine and dandy with the InDesign and Photoshop enhancements, but what about Dreamweaver? Are they just taking Dreamweaver CS3 and slapping a CS4 sticker on it?

[kim kap sol]

Adobe is out to rob you all. It's almost criminal. Although nothing beats Wall Street's recent robbing of America.

Have fun Adobe fanbois.

[Messiah]

I wouldn't mind paying the asking price if the software actually worked properly.

But CS3 doesn't work with OS X 10.5, because Adobe didn't follow Apple's GUI guidelines. I'm sick of InDesign windows disappearing only to never reappear – I don't see why I should pay for what is effectively a bug fix. Adobe should have rectified that bug free of charge, because it was of their own making.

You can also be damn sure that CS4 won't work properly with the upcoming OS X 10.6 release, and that you'll be back to square one, waiting on Adobe to release CS5.

Why can't Adobe just stick to the standard fucking interface like everyone else? Why do they think they know better than everybody else and go and do their own thing only for it to blow up in their face, and then expect their customers to pay for a bug fix?

Having shelled-out for CS, CS2 & CS3, I don't think I'll be paying for Adobe software again.

[Tauron]

I had Photoshop installed in my Mac 2 days before it went on sale (hehehe), it is pretty fast compared to CS3. Maybe I will also get Illustrator 4 too to try it out to see if it is better than canvas X.

[Phizz]

I am actually impressed with the new feature set for the applications. Last week we all had a glimpse of some new features and needless to say they didn't exactly exhume confidence in a worthwhile upgrade. Why Adobe chose to leak a load of boring sh1te first is beyond me - if all they had said about was the canvas rotation in photoshop I would have been far more excited.

But I have to agree with other commenters on the Prices. If I lived in the US i wouldn't complain too much, but in Europe we are being shafted by greedy %*@!s Adobe once again. They call it "the cost of doing business abroad" I once read. I'm sorry Adobe, it does NOT cost you several hundred dollars extra to sell ONE BOX of CS4 abroad. Twats.

[wally007]

Originally Posted by Phizz

I am actually impressed with the new feature set for the applications. Last week we all had a glimpse of some new features and needless to say they didn't exactly exhume confidence in a worthwhile upgrade. Why Adobe chose to leak a load of boring sh1te first is beyond me - if all they had said about was the canvas rotation in photoshop I would have been far more excited.

But I have to agree with other commenters on the Prices. If I lived in the US i wouldn't complain too much, but in Europe we are being shafted by greedy %*@!s Adobe once again. They call it "the cost of doing business abroad" I once read. I'm sorry Adobe, it does NOT cost you several hundred dollars extra to sell ONE BOX of CS4 abroad. Twats.

I make money with Adobe's apps and i live in Europe and i've never bought their software here. I'd be crazy , prices without taxes are $2500 in US and 3000 Euro's ( about $4500 ) in Germany. Really , who in their right mind would pay Euro prices for Adobe product is beyond me. Difference in cost pays for nice vacation in New York and you still have some money to blow on couple iPods.

[Tauron]

Originally Posted by wally007

I make money with Adobe's apps and i live in Europe and i've never bought their software here. I'd be crazy , prices without taxes are $2500 in US and 3000 Euro's ( about $4500 ) in Germany. Really , who in their right mind would pay Euro prices for Adobe product is beyond me. Difference in cost pays for nice vacation in New York and you still have some money to blow on couple iPods.

Finally a smart guy. I would get the entire suite for free if I wanted to but that is a huge download. Better off trying the products I may use one at a time.

[Xian Zhu Xuande]

Originally Posted by satchmo

$599 for CS3 Design Premium users?
Sorry, that's way too much. I think I'll stick with CS3.

Adobe has been charging upgrade prices like this for a while...

If you are using a suite of programs in one of these collections professionally you are probably clearing that much and more with even a small job. If the suite provides enough feature enhancements to improve your workflow significantly enough for the upgrade to matter, the price is a no-brainer.

Originally Posted by Messiah

But CS3 doesn't work with OS X 10.5, because Adobe didn't follow Apple's GUI guidelines. I'm sick of InDesign windows disappearing only to never reappear – I don't see why I should pay for what is effectively a bug fix. Adobe should have rectified that bug free of charge, because it was of their own making.

Effectively a bug fix? How long have you been using Adobe products?
I'm not going anywhere near this suite until I see how bug-ridden it is in production.

[Tauron]

Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande

Adobe has been charging upgrade prices like this for a while...

If you are using a suite of programs in one of these collections professionally you are probably clearing that much and more with even a small job. If the suite provides enough feature enhancements to improve your workflow significantly enough for the upgrade to matter, the price is a no-brainer.


Effectively a bug fix? How long have you been using Adobe products?
I'm not going anywhere near this suite until I see how bug-ridden it is in production.

Yes, but why pay $700-2500 when you could be paying $0?

[success]

Pirates unite

[Crtaylor]

I think that while CS4 may not seem like it is a huge update, the proof that it is huge is in the sum of its parts. Sure you have no new programs added, not exactly a boatload of new features, and a bigger price tag. If you actually study these improvement carefully on Adobe's website, you will find that this program will actually allow creative people to work much faster and more intuitively. What was time consuming with CS3 can now be done in a fraction of that time thanks to CS4. This is not just a bug release, folks; Adobe actually took the time to make all of these applications better and more expressive than ever before. As clunky as these apps have been in the past, that alone makes me want to buy this suite.

CS3 probably seemed like a bigger release because of all of the stuff Adobe was doing in picking up Macromedia along the way. CS3 was definitely a quantity release. CS4, however, is a quality release.

[Superbass]

Well, there are no professionals who find Adobe expensive, because of all the money it earns them, and it's on par price-wise to Logic, and a lot cheaper than Final Cut, so unless you think they're overprices too, you can't fault Adobe.

I think pretty much everybody that has and will comment/complain in this thread has nothing to do with the professional design industry, and most likely pirate most of their software anyways, or are used to paying max $60 for their Lego Star Wars. I at least haven't heard nearly as many people complaining about paying $130 bucks+ for a .1 upgrade of OSX. (oh really, Time Machine and Spaces are worth 25% of an Adobe Suite, you say?)

[ecking]

Am I the only that feels adobe has done this really quickly? I mean CS3 didn't come out that long ago.

[wbravenboer]

I am a professional designer, and have been using Adobe products since Illustrator 3, Photoshop 1, and have even worked with Indesign 1.... (only playing though)
With an experience of 26 years in the graphic industry I can tell you that no client gives a damn with what kind of software we produce their product. Some think it is MS Paint....
We have to justify our prices with everything we do, I work at a printing company, desktop publishing is a tool, we are not a pure design and advertising firm, we can not ask the same prices as a 'official' designer perhaps would charge. CS3 is a very expensive piece of software, it is invaluable and well made. Sure, there are bugs, and we stay with 10.4 for now. I have read a lot of articles already about CS4, I like it, but the price is just too high, my boss would never accept a new investment after such a short time, we would not need just one license, we would need 6, we are talking about around 6000 euros, if we would buy the localized version, then it would be close to 7000 euros, that is almost 10.000 dollar!! I only wish that Adobe would get some more competition, and stop squeezing every cent from their overseas clienst... At this rate, the sales figures will drop, the economy is weak and new software is not a very high priority at this moment...
software pirates will be upgrading their servers very soon.... and that is not a good thing.

[JamesWyatt]

Originally Posted by Phizz

... Why Adobe chose to leak a load of boring sh1te first is beyond me - if all they had said about was the canvas rotation in photoshop I would have been far more excited...

I agree. Multiple pages and page sizes in Illustrator is enough for me, lol. Someone needs to counsel Adobe on what product features actually make for a good teaser.

[SpamSandwich]

Originally Posted by Superbass

Well, there are no professionals who find Adobe expensive, because of all the money it earns them, and it's on par price-wise to Logic, and a lot cheaper than Final Cut, so unless you think they're overprices too, you can't fault Adobe.

I think pretty much everybody that has and will comment/complain in this thread has nothing to do with the professional design industry, and most likely pirate most of their software anyways, or are used to paying max $60 for their Lego Star Wars. I at least haven't heard nearly as many people complaining about paying $130 bucks+ for a .1 upgrade of OSX. (oh really, Time Machine and Spaces are worth 25% of an Adobe Suite, you say?)

Absolutely right about pros vs. the whiners posting here. As long as the software performs and improves productivity, it's worth every penny. I will wait for 4 to 6 months to see if there are any horrible bugs that need to be squashed before risking an upgrade. The price is not really an issue.

[SpamSandwich]

Originally Posted by JamesWyatt

I agree. Multiple pages and page sizes in Illustrator is enough for me, lol. Someone needs to counsel Adobe on what product features actually make for a good teaser.

The multiple canvases in Illustrator is a very exciting feature. I've created files with literally 50 or 60 different layouts in them that share common elements that I then need to copy to different files. This kind of design work is not conducive to the awkward InDesign app, so it must be completed in Illustrator. I'm liking what I'm seeing so far...

[bugsnw]

That rotating canvas feature would have been so helpful when I made money off of doing artwork years ago. From what I've seen on Adobe's website videos, it looks like a nice upgrade.

The high upgrade prices and the convoluted way Adobe has long time users install the app has gradually pushed me towards other software.

I'm put off by the 20-30+ character serial #s of some software, especially when they combine letters that look like numbers.

That said, I still look forward to the lengthy reviews that will be arriving soon.

[wally007]

Originally Posted by Superbass

Well, there are no professionals who find Adobe expensive, because of all the money it earns them, and it's on par price-wise to Logic, and a lot cheaper than Final Cut, so unless you think they're overprices too, you can't fault Adobe.

I think pretty much everybody that has and will comment/complain in this thread has nothing to do with the professional design industry, and most likely pirate most of their software anyways, or are used to paying max $60 for their Lego Star Wars. I at least haven't heard nearly as many people complaining about paying $130 bucks+ for a .1 upgrade of OSX. (oh really, Time Machine and Spaces are worth 25% of an Adobe Suite, you say?)

$130+ for OSX ? Where do i sign up ? Also i didnt see apple charging 200 Euro's for $100 software.

I cant stand people who cant see beyond their own nose and you're one of those tools.

[embee]

Originally Posted by Superbass

Well, there are no professionals who find Adobe expensive, because of all the money it earns them, and it's on par price-wise to Logic, and a lot cheaper than Final Cut, so unless you think they're overprices too, you can't fault Adobe.

Agreed. I just dropped $30K on an HD deck, with the add-in cards. Software's next to nothing in comparison.

I just wish Adobe would stop the bloat and make things more reliable. I really like After Effects CS3, but every other piece of software in CS3 (I use Photoshop and Illustrator a lot) is slow and crashy.

[TDurden]

you wrote:

InDesign CS4 also includes Adobe InCopy CS4 and InDesign CS4 Server, which can be customized, scaled and extended to meet the evolving needs of publishers.

Adobe said:

Adobe InDesign CS4 is at the center of the InDesign publishing family that also includes Adobe InCopy® CS4 and InDesign CS4 Server. This line of products can be customized, scaled and extended to meet evolving needs.

Estimated street price for the Adobe InDesign CS4 is US$699 and US$249 for Adobe InCopy CS4. Adobe InDesign CS4 Server will also be available to qualified Adobe developer partners........

I inferred from your article that InCopy and Server were now included in the CS package for free. They are still standalone products based on Adobe's full press release. Please adjust. Context is important.

[SpamSandwich]

I like their integration of the recently developed 'content aware scaling' feature. This could hugely affect the retouching business. Also, the simple painting on 3D objects is just a great productivity feature. Yay!

[Jimzip]

Cool! A welcome surprise this morning. Still too many combinations and versions, but an eagerly-awaited release with a slick new feature list!

Can't wait to give it a shot when we get it at the office!

Jimzip

[Tauron]

Originally Posted by Jimzip

Cool! A welcome surprise this morning. Still too many combinations and versions, but an eagerly-awaited release with a slick new feature list!

Can't wait to give it a shot when we get it at the office!

Jimzip

I just got the entire Adobe Suite for free.

[gastroboy]

Originally Posted by Phizz

I am actually impressed with the new feature set for the applications. Last week we all had a glimpse of some new features and needless to say they didn't exactly exhume confidence in a worthwhile upgrade. Why Adobe chose to leak a load of boring sh1te first is beyond me - if all they had said about was the canvas rotation in photoshop I would have been far more excited.

But I have to agree with other commenters on the Prices. If I lived in the US i wouldn't complain too much, but in Europe we are being shafted by greedy %*@!s Adobe once again. They call it "the cost of doing business abroad" I once read. I'm sorry Adobe, it does NOT cost you several hundred dollars extra to sell ONE BOX of CS4 abroad. Twats.

Adobe would need to "exhume" my confidence in them, it has been dead and buried for many a year. And no they are not getting me to upgrade. This time I think a lot of studios are going to say "Pass, next one please".

[alansky]

Looks to me like the new interface alone is worth the price of the upgrade. Adobe has been getting by with its funky old hodgepodge of an interface for so long that I had stopped believing it would ever change. But it just has!

[Jimzip]

Originally Posted by Tauron

I just got the entire Adobe Suite for free.

Your insightful statement will go down in the annals of history as one of the most enlightening!

Jimzip

[Tauron]

Originally Posted by Jimzip

Your insightful statement will go down in the annals of history as one of the most enlightening!

Jimzip

Thank you

It pretty much renders this entire thread arguing about price useless.

[admactanium]

Originally Posted by Superbass

Well, there are no professionals who find Adobe expensive, because of all the money it earns them, and it's on par price-wise to Logic, and a lot cheaper than Final Cut, so unless you think they're overprices too, you can't fault Adobe.

I think pretty much everybody that has and will comment/complain in this thread has nothing to do with the professional design industry, and most likely pirate most of their software anyways, or are used to paying max $60 for their Lego Star Wars. I at least haven't heard nearly as many people complaining about paying $130 bucks+ for a .1 upgrade of OSX. (oh really, Time Machine and Spaces are worth 25% of an Adobe Suite, you say?)

That's quite an assumption you make. I'm a Graphic Designer and Art Director with a valid license for Creative Suite, CS2 and CS3 and I've been in the industry for 15 years. I'm very seriously considering skipping this whole revision. The new features are interesting but I'm not sure they're $600-interesting, even when my obvious tax write-off. It's not a matter of finding $600 expensive - That's less than a day's fee for me. But it's a matter of seeing whether or not there's value there. $600 buys me some nice camera gear, which is also a write-off and more entertaining.

My clients don't particuarly care which program creates the Press-Optimized PDFs they use so I don't see a pressing need to rush out and buy CS4. This, from a guy who loves to buy new software and keep updated. I might buy CS4 just to keep in the update cycles and because CS3 has been ceaselessly buggy for me, but the jury is still out.

[Tauron]

Originally Posted by admactanium

That's quite an assumption you make. I'm a Graphic Designer and Art Director with a valid license for Creative Suite, CS2 and CS3 and I've been in the industry for 15 years. I'm very seriously considering skipping this whole revision. The new features are interesting but I'm not sure they're $0-interesting, even when my obvious tax write-off. It's not a matter of finding $0 expensive - That's less than a day's fee for me. But it's a matter of seeing whether or not there's value there. $0 buys me some nice camera gear, which is also a write-off and more entertaining.

My clients don't particuarly care which program creates the Press-Optimized PDFs they use so I don't see a pressing need to rush out and buy CS4. This, from a guy who loves to buy new software and keep updated. I might buy CS4 just to keep in the update cycles and because CS3 has been ceaselessly buggy for me, but the jury is still out.

Fixed.

[javaporter]

Originally Posted by bpatton

All fine and dandy with the InDesign and Photoshop enhancements, but what about Dreamweaver? Are they just taking Dreamweaver CS3 and slapping a CS4 sticker on it?

I've played with the CS4 beta, and it's unimpressive at best. Check out Textmate, it's a much better solution.

Originally Posted by Messiah

You can also be damn sure that CS4 won't work properly with the upcoming OS X 10.6 release, and that you'll be back to square one, waiting on Adobe to release CS5.

This is my concern as well. I like to keep ALL my software up to date, not just the Adobe suite. When the newest version of the Apple OS and Adobe's CS don't play well together, I'll take Apple's side.

Originally Posted by admactanium

My clients don't particuarly care which program creates the Press-Optimized PDFs they use so I don't see a pressing need to rush out and buy CS4. This, from a guy who loves to buy new software and keep updated. I might buy CS4 just to keep in the update cycles and because CS3 has been ceaselessly buggy for me, but the jury is still out.

I'm in this situation to some degree. I ordered it already, should be available for download on Oct. 14. But I was among the first to jump from Quark to Adobe and I'll be among the first to jump from Adobe to Apple (or whomever puts out a viable alternative to InDesign, PSD, AI, and Flash). Adobe has made it clear they have no intention of working closely with Apple, the 64-bit situation a shining example of Adobe's willingness to point fingers and shift blame. Apple is my platform of choice, if I had to work on Windows I'd find another career. Adobe seems to be confused about this mindset. They've emulated Windows one-window GUI theory as well. I realize you can turn that "feature" off to some degree, but it just goes to show where Adobe's thinking has gone. Multiple windows and programs showing isn't called "clutter" in my opinion, it's called "efficiency". Being able to drag and drop between CS apps is a big part of my workflow.I haven't tried CS4 yet, so I'll reserve final judgement, but my opinion of Adobe continues to be lowered. I'm still a fan-boy of their InDesign developers, but overall...

Honestly, the price doesn't really bother me. It's a bit high, sure, but it's what they can get for it. I don't know any professional design entities making less than $100/hour, and part of that is supposed to go to software/hardware/fonts/etc.

What does bother me is Adobe's apparent inability to do more than skin MM's legacy programs (I honestly think Flash should embarrass them, the only reason I use it is because I have to — Flash CS3 should still be in beta). I'm also more than a little vexed that Adobe can't play well with Apple. I don't agree with their carbon-64 excuse, they should have started rewriting the CS in Cocoa from the beginning. That was Apple's plan from OS 10.0, and Adobe wanted to wait and see if they were serious.

Any talented, young and hungry developers out there with a bit of VC?: I'd start seriously thinking about what it would take to give Adobe a run for their money.

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande

Adobe has been charging upgrade prices like this for a while...

I still don't understand Adobe's upgrade scheme. I can upgrade Photoshop, InDesign, Illustrator and Dreamweaver separately for $199. each. That's $796. total.

Upgrade to Design Premium (from any one of those products): $1399.

For the extra money, I get the 'extended' version of Photoshop I don't need; Flash, which I hate; and the full version of Acrobat, which I'm not sure if I'll have occasion to use.

I also get locked into buying the suite upgrades from here on, whereas now I can upgrade whatever I wish.

How is the suite a better value?

[admactanium]

Originally Posted by Tauron

Fixed.

I have no idea what you meant by that. Am I supposed to be able to get CS4 for free? I have relatives who work at Adobe and even then I don't get it for completely free.

Originally Posted by javaporter

I'm in this situation to some degree. I ordered it already, should be available for download on Oct. 14. But I was among the first to jump from Quark to Adobe and I'll be among the first to jump from Adobe to Apple (or whomever puts out a viable alternative to InDesign, PSD, AI, and Flash). Adobe has made it clear they have no intention of working closely with Apple, the 64-bit situation a shining example of Adobe's willingness to point fingers and shift blame. Apple is my platform of choice, if I had to work on Windows I'd find another career. Adobe seems to be confused about this mindset. They've emulated Windows one-window GUI theory as well. I realize you can turn that "feature" off to some degree, but it just goes to show where Adobe's thinking has gone. Multiple windows and programs showing isn't called "clutter" in my opinion, it's called "efficiency". Being able to drag and drop between CS apps is a big part of my workflow.I haven't tried CS4 yet, so I'll reserve final judgement, but my opinion of Adobe continues to be lowered. I'm still a fan-boy of their InDesign developers, but overall...

Honestly, the price doesn't really bother me. It's a bit high, sure, but it's what they can get for it. I don't know any professional design entities making less than $100/hour, and part of that is supposed to go to software/hardware/fonts/etc.

I switched to InDesign very early as well. The agency I worked for at the time was one of the largest installations of InDesign over Quark at that time. I was the first Art Director to make the change and I had been a Quark user for 10 years. I'm quite fond of InDesign.. And like I said before, I can easily afford the upgrade price of CS4, but I'm not sure it's that much of a value yet. It all depends on the reviews of the new features, but from what I've read so far it's not a "no-brainer" upgrade like CS2->CS3 was to get Intel-native applications.