Piper says G1 to have 'little or no impact' on iPhone

[AppleInsider]

While both Apple and Google appear to be emerging as pioneers in the mobile computing space, the iPhone sports a year-long head start over the Android-based G1 handset introduced Tuesday, and is unlikely to see any lost sales as a result, says investment bank Piper Jaffray.

"To use a baseball analogy, when Apple comes out with a product, they try to hit homeruns, but Google's Android strategy is swinging for base hits," analyst Gene Munster wrote in a reactionary research note. "Today's announcement in itself does not change anything, however, if over the next 2 years Google has many similar small announcements, it will become a greater threat to the iPhone."

One feature that may help differentiate the new G1 handset from the iPhone out of the gates is its physical QWERTY keyboard, according to the analyst. He noted that iPhone adoption has been "slightly hampered" by the reluctance of some consumers to adapt to a touchscreen keyboard.

Another key element that may work to Google's favor exists in its 'open' approach to the Android operating system, which which means developers can modify the
operating system and develop third-party applications on the platform for free. The open nature of the software also means that Android can be quickly modified to run on many devices from the broad majority of mobile carriers.

In contrast, Apple has chosen a closed iPhone platform where developers cannot modify or enhance the operating system, and third-party developers must pay a nominal fee to belong to a developer group and submit applications to Apple for approval on the App Store. The iPhone OS will also only run on Apple-branded devices.

"This differentiation will allow for Google to expand Android widely and quickly, but Apple can control the quality more effectively," Munster said. "In the end, wide availability and high quality are both critical. Apple has improved international availability of the iPhone dramatically over the last several months, and the quality of the hardware and the software are high."

Both the iPhone and G1 feature desktop class web browsers built around Apple's WebKit framework, making them the first two mobile handsets that offer a 'useful' mobile browsing experience, in the analyst's view. He also noted that both devices offer a mobile marketplace for music and media -- the iPhone features the iTunes Wi-Fi Store, while the G1 has direct access to the Amazon MP3 store.

The key differences are that the Amazon store offers 100 percent unprotected DRM-free tracks, whereas the iTunes store only offers unprotected tracks from one of the major record labels, EMI. There's still a catch, however, in that iPhone users can easily plug a pair of headphones into there handset to listen to purchased music, whereas G1 users will be unable to do the same without a USB adapter, given the HTC-developed handset lacks a traditional headphone jack.

Yet another difference between the iPhone and G1 is their target audience. T-Mobile and Google said earlier in the day that the G1 is geared primarily towards consumers and families. Apple on the other hand has made strides in recent months to push iPhone adoption in the Enterprise. Most notably is the iPhone's new support of Microsoft Exchange -- a technology unsupported on the G1.

Overall, Munster recommended that investors buy shares of Apple as a play in the growing mobile space.

"While the G1 is a legitimate competitor with the iPhone, we believe it will have little or no impact on near-term iPhone sales," he said.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[BlackSummerNight]

He has no clue...h can't see into the future.

[sausage&Onion]

Although I think he's sometimes a cheerleader, this seems accurate. I can't imagine that the G1 is going to mess with the iPhone anytime soon.

[Bageljoey]

Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight

He has no clue...h can't see into the future.

Yeah, but they just reaffirmed their $250 target, so what else is he going to say...

[Booga]

Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight

He has no clue...h can't see into the future.

No one can, but his argument seems reasonable. The Android OS is lacking a lot of software features the iPhone users take for granted. Presumably since the hardware is fairly advanced it will catch up, but really this should be termed the "First Developer's Release" of the Android phone, not a 1.0 product.

Besides, at 70.1M subscribers for AT&T in the US alone (vs. 28.7M for T-Mobile) and the iPhone available in 40 countries worldwide, Android isn't going to scratch the iPhone's market share this year. As the article says, though, maybe version 2.0 or 3.0 or 4.0 could get interesting, especially if their much-vaunted openness leads to a vibrant developer community. (Some developers prefer openness to making lots of money, which is what Apple's offering right now...)

[SpamSandwich]

He's right. They serve different target groups. There is a price difference, styling difference, and enough functional difference.

[Olternaut]

Beta? I can call it a gen 1 handset. But its just one handset from one manufacturer on one carrier.
Multiple handsets of all different types on different carriers with multiple payment plans over time will be the key. And by then there will be many more apps.
I hope Apple is not dumb enough to under estimate Android's potential.

Sure it has its problems and its having a small humble beginning. But android is designed to grow as a market exponentially. I really hope this gives Apple something to worry about because this is going to for them to keep coming out with hot products and services to stay ahead of the game.

And thats good news for us consumers.

[msb0014]

I saw the video for the G1 and how thick is this thing? Too many moving parts, no form factor, bulky. iPhone will dominate this sort of developer-created-mobile-phone-app-creation. The developers are making lot's of money in the App Store. Isn't Android open source freeware?

[fishstick_kitty]

How is this "open" os going to get pushed to peoples phones? He mentioned how developers on iPhone can't modify the OS...I can't imagine a model with the google stack that would allow a developer to modify the OS either...or at least I dont see how that change would eventually make it onto somebodys phone.

The phone looks clunky to me...I dunno.

[ouragan]

Android is a combination of Windows and Linux, operating on every phone, but free and open source.

The cell phone contract is a winner: $35 per month vs. $90 per month if you insist on an iPhone.

And the 3 MegaPixel camera is already better than the 2 MegaPixel camera of the iPhone.

Given the well documented shortcomings of the iPhone and the poor service of the cell phone operators who sell it, it's a no-brainer to see that Android is a winner.

Apple and Steve Jobs are repeating the mistakes they made with the original Mac:

a) overpricing;
b) exclusivity (no licencing to competitors);
c) in house development (no open source, no third party developpers, unless approved);
d) secrecy and unpredictability of the development of new features (They come if and when they do, don't ask for them).


As a result of Steve Jobs' vision for the iPhone, Apple will once again waste its competitive early advantage.

[radleydebones]

By the way, WebKit is not apples. http://webkit.org/ apple has a version of the open source engine.

[anmarkle]

Originally Posted by ouragan

The cell phone contract is a winner: $35 per month vs. $90 per month if you insist on an iPhone.

Don't forget to add at least $30.00 for a voice plan to that $35.00 data plan.

[probably]

Originally Posted by radleydebones

By the way, WebKit is not apples. http://webkit.org/ apple has a version of the open source engine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit#History

[probably]

Originally Posted by ouragan

Android is a combination of Windows and Linux, operating on every phone, but free and open source.

The cell phone contract is a winner: $35 per month vs. $90 per month if you insist on an iPhone.

And the 3 MegaPixel camera is already better than the 2 MegaPixel camera of the iPhone.

Given the well documented shortcomings of the iPhone and the poor service of the cell phone operators who sell it, it's a no-brainer to see that Android is a winner.

Apple and Steve Jobs are repeating the mistakes they made with the original Mac:

a) overpricing;
b) exclusivity (no licencing to competitors);
c) in house development (no open source, no third party developpers, unless approved);
d) secrecy and unpredictability of the development of new features (They come if and when they do, don't ask for them).


As a result of Steve Jobs' vision for the iPhone, Apple will once again waste its competitive early advantage.

There is no evidence of a mistake yet. This is not the same thing.

[breeze]

That's nice. Android will tell the world that iPhone changed the standard and that from now on, all cellphones need to be smart and adaptable. So who said that there can't and shouldn't be more than one ?...

Google and Apple are not at war and never will be, in fact Google's CEO in jest suggested publicly that they would , in the future merge.

Apple's got a huge jump on all and will maintain the standard and bar because it always has been the innovator and oracle of the pc world.

[macinthe408]

And to think that the iPhone is having issues even when its OS comes from a single closed source, and its applications are screened.

I can't wait to have some a hacker in his mom's basement have the unfettered ability to have his p0rn application available to millions of Android users without checks or balances.

Can't wait for the open source car. Reliability and safety? Haha.

[walshbj]

It's easy to forget we are the geeks who read AppleInsider. There's a very large part of the iPhone buying population who couldn't care less if the iPhone is part of a closed system or not. Apple stirs an emotional response in people that makes them want to buy the products. They don't know the words Open Source. They can buy their music on it, they can download free apps. And it's an iPhone.

When I eavesdrop in the Apple Store I hear people excitedly explaining to wives, roommates and parents what the features are - and getting it wrong. Don't underestimate the large number of people who are far more interested in what colors the iPhone comes in.

I don't see the Google Phone as much of a threat at this point. But that could surely change down the road. How long until someone is running Android on an iPhone??

[BuzDots]

T Mobile's U.S. coverage just sucks as compared to AT & T and Verizon.

Google should have picked one of the big boys to play with rather than the guy who hopes his coverage will grow because we buy the latest toy.

Guess you have to take some of the crap (T-M) to catch the big fish (Deutsche Tele).

In the end maybe it will be good competition.

[Foo2]

They sold me with the compass! Now that is AWESOME!
And words simply can't describe how I feel about a USB headphone jack!
</sarcasm>

[whatisgoingon]

While you can "access" Amazon's music store over the carrier's network, effectively all you can do is bookmark songs you want [well, you can pay for them if you want as well]. But, just like AT&T and the iPhone, you can't download the song to listen to until you get to a Wifi connection.

This is solely because T-Mobile and AT&T want to keep their own music stores at $2 and up/song that they sell to suckers with other handsets.

The other thing is that the T-Mobile G-Phone doesn't enable just any application you may want. Good luck trying to get a tethering application or a VOIP application into any app store that T-Mobile let's you access.

And don't think that the OS being open-source will help you. T-Mobile will work hard to make sure you can't change the firmware in your handset to any other firmware than what T-Mobile wishes to provide to you.

[mrjoec123]

Originally Posted by anmarkle

Don't forget to add at least $30.00 for a voice plan to that $35.00 data plan.

Exactly. And don't forget to add that unless you live in one of the very exclusive 18 areas where T-Mobile has 3G, that data is also EDGE speed.

[mark_test]

Originally Posted by Foo2

They sold me with the compass! Now that is AWESOME!
And words can not describe how I feel about a USB headphone jack!
</sarcasm>

why would it need a compass if it has gps? it does have gps, right?

[mrjoec123]

Originally Posted by ouragan

Apple and Steve Jobs are repeating the mistakes they made with the original Mac:

a) overpricing;
b) exclusivity (no licencing to competitors);
c) in house development (no open source, no third party developpers, unless approved);
d) secrecy and unpredictability of the development of new features (They come if and when they do, don't ask for them).


As a result of Steve Jobs' vision for the iPhone, Apple will once again waste its competitive early advantage.

Not even close to accurate.

a) $199 is far from overpriced. The G1 is $179, it only has 1GB of memory, and it's going to run at EDGE speed almost everywhere in the US. T-Mobile's 3G coverage is tiny compared to AT&T's, which isn't that great. Even if you ignore the speed and just compare memory, adding an 8GB card to the Android phone already puts you over the iPhone's price.

b) Any one Android phone you buy will be exclusive to that carrier. If you buy a Verizon Android phone, you won't be able to just switch it over to Sprint whenever you feel like. You'll need a whole new phone to get onto a different network. Even ATT and T-Mobile, despite being both GSM, use different network frequencies. You can use the same phone on both networks, but not without missing some features. In the US, the whole myth of carrier freedom everywhere but with the iPhone has to stop. It's nonsense. In another few years, there will be iPhones for every major carrier, I'm sure. But you'll still have to buy a new iPhone every time you switch carriers. Blame the carriers for that.

c) Sure, Apple limits its developers, which leads to safer, higher-quality applications. Google's approach, while good on paper, takes no precautions whatsoever when it comes to security. It is the responsibility of the user to avoid the malware that is bound to come in droves. Google's actual "openness" is questionable, anyway, as it has clearly shown favoritism to certain developers. Perhaps they see the writing on the wall when it comes to malware.

d) again, security is far better managed on the iPhone, where all applications need to be signed with a certificate before they go live on the app store. Apple can also recall applications in an emergency, removing them from every phone in the entire user base once a problem is discovered. Sure, Jobs is a control freak. But once in a while that control benefits the user quite a bit.

The "closed" approach used by Apple on the hardware side also ensures compatibility of most features and better software integration. What happens when you buy ten Android apps for your new G1, and then two years from now you change to a new Android phone that doesn't have an accelerometer or a touch screen? Many of your apps are now incompatible. Not to mention that developers, wanting to maximize sales, will design for the lowest common denominator, since they can't be sure how many phones will have the high-end features in the first place. So many of the high-end features of the phone will go underutilized.

Just as in the Windows world, there will be many more apps for Android, but the vast majority of them will suck. Piracy will be rampant, and the best developers will find that developing for the "closed" iPhone is far more profitable and hassle-free.

It's not 1990 anymore. The Microsoft approach to computing has run its course.

[enzos]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

"

One feature that may help differentiate the new G1 handset from the iPhone out of the gates is its physical QWERTY keyboard, according to the analyst.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

We really needed an 'analyst' to point that out!

Actually, though, it looks like smart tactics from HTC+Google. The iPhone has one end of the market (elegance, simplicity and smoothly integrated multi-functionality) sewn up so G1, with all the bells and whistles and Soviet-era plastic knobs and buttons, is going for the other: the Little Boys with Big Toys end of the market. Expect plenty of good press from the tech-mags coz hardcore geeks will love it! The rest of us will go for something more fun less fuss.

[monstrosity]

Originally Posted by probably

There is no evidence of a mistake yet. This is not the same thing.

agreed. 99% of apps are being allowed by apple so whats the big deal.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by macinthe408

And to think that the iPhone is having issues even when its OS comes from a single closed source, and its applications are screened.

I can't wait to have some a hacker in his mom's basement have the unfettered ability to have his p0rn application available to millions of Android users without checks or balances.

Can't wait for the open source car. Reliability and safety? Haha.

You're not really a Mac user, are you? Or are you off the other deep end and just drunk on kool-aid? Have you conveniently forgotten that a lot of open source software forms the base that OS X runs on? So far, it has not proven to be a liability, the opposite in fact, it's an asset. Open source software is even on quite a large number of hardware firewalls, if not most of them, and I don't remember that being a liability either.

Open source is just a development model, not a mark of quality or lack thereof. Just as there is good and bad proprietary software, there is good and bad open source software. That said, the UNIX-type operating system and networking base of open source software has proven to be pretty stable because it's widely developed over the decades through universities and even some major companies now.

[SpamSandwich]

Originally Posted by ouragan

Android is a combination of Windows and Linux, operating on every phone, but free and open source.

The cell phone contract is a winner: $35 per month vs. $90 per month if you insist on an iPhone.

And the 3 MegaPixel camera is already better than the 2 MegaPixel camera of the iPhone.

Given the well documented shortcomings of the iPhone and the poor service of the cell phone operators who sell it, it's a no-brainer to see that Android is a winner.

Apple and Steve Jobs are repeating the mistakes they made with the original Mac:

a) overpricing;
b) exclusivity (no licencing to competitors);
c) in house development (no open source, no third party developpers, unless approved);
d) secrecy and unpredictability of the development of new features (They come if and when they do, don't ask for them).


As a result of Steve Jobs' vision for the iPhone, Apple will once again waste its competitive early advantage.

Android is the new Windows.

[mdriftmeyer]

You people are full of vision I see.


Google washes it's hands of responsibility for the Carrier and doesn't care to leverage for the client on what rates, data plans, so on and so forth the Carrier traditionally manages. They offer their OS with certain authorizations for the OS, but the rest they could care less about. That's up to the carrier.

T-Mobile is in-charge of the Hardware Specs:

This phone is directly targeted at the Windows Mobile Platform. Indirectly, it's attempting to entice the makers of the BlackBerry to think about moving to the Android Platform.

There is nothing in here that puts it up against the iPhone 3G or iPhone, for that matter.

Google wants Microsoft's business clients.

Features:

Date and Pricing
$179 on October 22nd. (That's with a two year contract.) Unlimited internet with "some messaging" will run $25/month. Unlimited internet and messaging is $35/month. Data plans will require voice plans.

Screen
The G1 sports a 3.17" 65K color touchscreen that runs in HVGA (480×320) resolution.

Battery Life
You can talk for 5 hours, or keep the phone in standby for 130 hours.

Camera
3.1MP, or right around 35mm 4x6 print quality.

Frequency Fun
GSM/GPRS/EDGE/Wi-Fi and UMTS/HSDPA
850/900/1700/1800/1900/2100Mhz

Dimensions
4.60” x 2.16” x 0.62”; Weight: 5.6 ounces. And available in white, black and brown.

Storage
1GB MicroSD card preinstalled. Supports 8GB MicroSD.

GPS
Of course, what would Google Maps be without it?

T-Mobile has already capped the data plan for 3G at 1GB per month.

By the next revision of iPhone 3G people are going to be demanding 16GB baseline and 32GB top-end for the iPhone 3G. They'll want a larger display, higher bit depths, longer battery life and completely recycleable or they'll proclaim Apple is behind the competition.

Two thousand applications will be there and people will still bitch about NDA requirements but the developers who actually write AND have written for various platforms will continue to rave about the Cocoa Touch platform and iPhone SDKs as they make a solid living.

There are how many major Wireless carriers in the US? We have how many carriers already offering the iPhone, world wide?

This data rich market is what Google wants--they want to be the central repository for all information.

The best part is that former Google design engineers who made Google what they are have started their own competitors.

Google's reign is temporary, at best.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by mrjoec123

Even if you ignore the speed and just compare memory, adding an 8GB card to the Android phone already puts you over the iPhone's price.

True, but not by much. I found 8GB Sandisk microSD cards for $24 at a few sellers on Amazon. There are no 16GB microSD cards yet.

[Booga]

Originally Posted by ouragan

Android is a combination of Windows and Linux, operating on every phone, but free and open source.

The cell phone contract is a winner: $35 per month vs. $90 per month if you insist on an iPhone.

And the 3 MegaPixel camera is already better than the 2 MegaPixel camera of the iPhone.

Given the well documented shortcomings of the iPhone and the poor service of the cell phone operators who sell it, it's a no-brainer to see that Android is a winner.

Apple and Steve Jobs are repeating the mistakes they made with the original Mac:

a) overpricing;
b) exclusivity (no licencing to competitors);
c) in house development (no open source, no third party developpers, unless approved);
d) secrecy and unpredictability of the development of new features (They come if and when they do, don't ask for them).


As a result of Steve Jobs' vision for the iPhone, Apple will once again waste its competitive early advantage.

And you're repeating the mistake of comparing everything by a feature checklist instead of lifestyle integration. The iPhone's weakness isn't in any feature list, just like the iPod.

[emoney35]

Originally Posted by mark_test

why would it need a compass if it has gps? it does have gps, right?

GPS only tells you WHERE you are. It can't tell what direction you are facing unless you are moving. By adding a compass, you can obviously then know what direction you are facing without moving around.

[samab]

Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer

T-Mobile is in-charge of the Hardware Specs:

This phone is directly targeted at the Windows Mobile Platform. Indirectly, it's attempting to entice the makers of the BlackBerry to think about moving to the Android Platform.

I think that it's more like HTC is in charge of the hardware specs --- it's basically a cheaper version of the HTC Touch HD. Same Qualcomm CPU as the HTC Touch HD. The Touch HD has a better camera, has a larger screen and has Windows Mobile. The G1 has a physical keyboard.

[NasserAE]

Originally Posted by ouragan

The cell phone contract is a winner: $35 per month vs. $90 per month if you insist on an iPhone.

And the 3 MegaPixel camera is already better than the 2 MegaPixel camera of the iPhone.

I am just wondering where did you get your numbers?!

There is no noticeable difference between 2MP camera and 3.1MB camera since the lens is very small.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/08/te...=1&oref=slogin

[mdriftmeyer]

Originally Posted by NasserAE

I am just wondering where did you get your numbers?!

There is no noticeable difference between 2MP camera and 3.1MB camera since the lens is very small.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/08/te...=1&oref=slogin

Give me Optics! I need my Optics!!

[McDave]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Another key element that may work to Google's favor exists in its 'open' approach to the Android operating system, which which means developers can modify the operating system and develop third-party applications on the platform for free. The open nature of the software also means that Android can be quickly modified to run on many devices from the broad majority of mobile carriers.

So Android will take over the mobile phone market just as LINUX has annihilated the desktop PC market - scary!

McD

[Alfiejr]

As to price of the monthly service plan, with T-Mobile it's $35 for data - capped as noted below - and $25 more for SMS, plus at least $20 for some basic service level. that totals $80+, about the same as the iPhone AT&T package.

and as noted below, adding an 8G memory card makes the GPhone a few bucks more expensive to buy than an 8G iPhone.

bottom line: the accurate statement is that T-Mobile is - at best - just matching the iPhone price. but let's see how many pundits can do math even as simple as this.

oh, by the way, check out the T-Mobile website for the G1. it's awful.

[Alfiejr]

And as to the Amazon store as source for the G1's media, it's a nice place to visit, if you know what you want to buy already. but no one would want to live there, explore, check out things. it's downright clumsy. and of course you still need some software program someplace to organize all your media. it's simply no competition for iTunes at all. that's just pundit BS.

a much stronger package would have been integrating a full service media store/software like Rhapsody into Android. that combination would have been real competition for Tunes. heck, maybe Google plans to buy Rhapsody ... it would be a good fit.

we'll see if other phone companies add their own integrated music store/software to future Android offerings. Windows Mobile is supposed to do this too, but it's screwed up. next year?

[Olternaut]

Originally Posted by ouragan

Android is a combination of Windows and Linux, operating on every phone, but free and open source.

The cell phone contract is a winner: $35 per month vs. $90 per month if you insist on an iPhone.

And the 3 MegaPixel camera is already better than the 2 MegaPixel camera of the iPhone.

Given the well documented shortcomings of the iPhone and the poor service of the cell phone operators who sell it, it's a no-brainer to see that Android is a winner.

Apple and Steve Jobs are repeating the mistakes they made with the original Mac:

a) overpricing;
b) exclusivity (no licencing to competitors);
c) in house development (no open source, no third party developpers, unless approved);
d) secrecy and unpredictability of the development of new features (They come if and when they do, don't ask for them).


As a result of Steve Jobs' vision for the iPhone, Apple will once again waste its competitive early advantage.

I agree with probably that this isn't exactly the same scenario. Odds are Apple will be very successful with their wireless device business. But there is a chance your right though ouragan. Apple could indeed end up messing things up for their wireless aspirations. Wow, all this debate and this G1 is only the first handset from just one carrier. Wait till its all kinds of devices from every manufacturer and carrier. Oh, and don't forget a little thing called "4G" thats heading our way like a steamroller.

It may be a humble beginning but I have a feeling android might grow exponentially over time. Apple had better be paying pretty damn close attention to the progress of Android.
Furthermore, MacWorld 2009 had better knock the socks off of the tech industry......I mean seriously!

[melgross]

Originally Posted by ouragan

Android is a combination of Windows and Linux, operating on every phone, but free and open source.

The cell phone contract is a winner: $35 per month vs. $90 per month if you insist on an iPhone.

And the 3 MegaPixel camera is already better than the 2 MegaPixel camera of the iPhone.

Given the well documented shortcomings of the iPhone and the poor service of the cell phone operators who sell it, it's a no-brainer to see that Android is a winner.

Apple and Steve Jobs are repeating the mistakes they made with the original Mac:

a) overpricing;
b) exclusivity (no licencing to competitors);
c) in house development (no open source, no third party developpers, unless approved);
d) secrecy and unpredictability of the development of new features (They come if and when they do, don't ask for them).


As a result of Steve Jobs' vision for the iPhone, Apple will once again waste its competitive early advantage.

Thats not the total cost of the phone plan from T-Mobile.

And if what the article says is true, this phone does lack something that would seem important—a headphone jack!

Apple was ripped when they made their jack recessed, because people needed a small, cheap adapter, so they fixed it. But to need a headphone to USB adapter, is truly silly.

I'm wondering if this is being reported as an odd lapse in design.

[McDave]

Originally Posted by Alfiejr

a much stronger package would have been integrating a full service media store/software like Rhapsody into Android. that combination would have been real competition for Tunes. heck, maybe Google plans to buy Rhapsody ... it would be a good fit.

Careful! Isn't integration the enemy of openness? Something to do with walls.

McD