Nokia answers iPhone's blows with its first touchscreen phone

[AppleInsider]

After more than a year without a direct competitor to the iPhone, Nokia on Thursday fired back with a phone that it hopes will better Apple's now widespread device -- albeit with a delayed launch and a few other catches.

Although the largest single producer of cellphones in the world, Nokia is only now rolling out its first touchscreen phone in the form of the 5800 XpressMusic.

Pitched as a media phone first and an Internet device second, the familiar-looking device has 3G, GPS and Wi-Fi but focuses most of its attention on a reworked, 5th Edition of the Symbian Series 60 operating system that has a drop-down media bar for controlling music regardless of where the user might happen to be in their software.

The Finland-based company touts a crisper 640x360 screen versus the iPhone's 480x320, vibration feedback for on-screen presses, a 3.2-megapixel camera with flash and video recording, and removable storage.

And in a not-so-subtle tweak at the absence of Flash on the iPhone, Nokia notes that Flash Lite 3 is built into the 5800's full HTML web browser.

"Individuals can surf the entire web, not just pieces of it," the company boasts.



Price is also important to Nokia. The phone's unsubsidized price with an 8GB memory card is set at 279 Euro, or $396 -- well below the $631 UK iPhone sold with O2's pay-as-you-go service and lower still than the $826 Belgian iPhone.

A special version of the phone will come later with access to the handset maker's Comes With Music, a service that hikes the price of the phone in return for a year's worth of unlimited but permanent music downloads.

Even with these key differences, several discrepancies as well as Nokia's current competitive environment may dampen expectations. Thanks in part to Apple's patents for multi-touch input, the 5800 uses a single-touch display and comes bundled with a stylus to handle aspects of the interface that can't be controlled with a finger.

The screen is also dependent on pressure for input rather than the reaction to finger electricity that makes the iPhone's input relatively subtle and precise, further supporting the need for a pen.

Moreover, Nokia's final release plans for the heavily leaked phone are now known to be especially conservative. Instead of a launch into its core European market or into Apple's US home, Nokia will have to launch its first touchscreen phone in Asia, the Middle East and Russia during 2008. American and European launches are now only due in 2009 and won't necessarily bring Comes With Music to all areas.

The official explanation, according to representatives speaking with Forbes, is the insistence by carriers such as Orange and Vodafone that the new XpressMusic phone come to their networks with proprietary branding and portals adapted to the touch interface. By contrast, Apple has so far insisted on keeping nearly all carrier branding and interfaces off of iPhones regardless of territory and just recently completed its third wave of iPhone 3G introductions, launching the phone in 30 more countries late last month.

The delays only serve to reinforce problems that the Symbian Foundation and Nokia itself has had with preserving its lead. Recent statistics from the mobile operating system development group have Symbian's use on phones growing just 5 percent year-over-year versus rapid growth just the year before, while Nokia proper has had to lower estimates for its market share during the summer as Apple and peers undercut its smartphones' pricing.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[quamb]

What a blatant rip-off of the iPhone.

Sure the rest of the industry are (poorly) copying the iPhone, but thought Nokia would have at least come up with something slightly unique. Sad.

[NasserAE]

I never liked Nokia, their phones are boring. Sony Ericsson have much better phones than Nokia.

[iPond317]

Another iPhone clone with EPIC FAIL written all over it. Full HTML browser? See that screen cap with Facebook? That's the mobile site.

[meh 2]

Dead man dialing.

[McDave]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Thanks in part to Apple's patents for multi-touch input, the 5800 uses a single-touch display and comes bundled with a stylus to handle aspects of the interface that can't be controlled with a finger.

The screen is also dependent on pressure for input rather than the reaction to finger electricity that makes the iPhone's input relatively subtle and precise, further supporting the need for a pen.

Not all touch-screens are created equal, shame the buying-public won't get this.

McD

[MacTel]

Not bad for a phone that will be given away for free in 6 months. Nokia is about bulk. They'll probably sell a 100 million of them in year's time.

Apple shook-up the industry and now the industry is catching up. What's next Apple?

[bigmike]

The single fact that you have to use a stylus (other than being unoriginal) makes this thing lame.

[Dreil]

See the Gizmodo review of it...they really hate it.

[CREB]

People are forgetting about some of the philosophies of Nokia regarding women consumers—women will take notice of this phone. And unfortunately (clone or not) it will bite into Apple iPhone sales.

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by quamb

What a blatant rip-off of the iPhone.

Sure the rest of the industry are (poorly) copying the iPhone, but thought Nokia would have at least come up with something slightly unique. Sad.

No it's not- does the iPhone have Flash?

[retroneo]

Comes With Music is awesome.

All the music you can download from all labels and independants, Keep the music forever. Authorize a computer to use your Comes With Music too.

Freely give all your music to other Comes With Music users.

Whatever happened to iTunes Unlimited?

I would rather DRM free but I couldn't afford my collection of MP3 files at 0.99c a track. So Comes with Music sounds great.

[prokip]

Go for it Nokia!! I'll be buying one even though I have had both 1st and 2nd gen iPhone. The Appleistas take note: enough of your appalling arrogance... now get it right. The things that are not right in iPhone need to be fixed soon, very soon... cut & paste, flash, tethering, video recording, better camera, stupid activation stuff, closed platform etc etc. The Apple guys obviously don't want world domination. They just want their soon to be reached aficionado share!

[lugesm]

At least I don't have to subscribe to AT&T's $1,700 for 2 years plan in order to buy the phone.

The real test for many users will be: How well does the device work as a phone, its primary function ? After all, if one just wants pizazz, an iPod Touch is cheaper.

It would be a mistake to underestimate Nokia.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

"Individuals can surf the entire web, not just pieces of it," the company boasts.

This is as false as Apple's claim if 'entire web' of full 'internet' means plugins, and support for correctly rendered pages with web standards. Does it support Silverlight, Quicktime, ActiveX? These are part of the internet. While exceedingly common, Adobe Flash is not a web standard.

Originally Posted by iPond317

Another iPhone clone with EPIC FAIL written all over it. Full HTML browser? See that screen cap with Facebook? That's the mobile site.

Nokia bought TrollTech earlier this year. TrollTech created Qt. Nokia is working with Mozilla to get Firefox ported to Qt for S60. This is pretty big deal but both parties to grab users, but I'd say it's much more important for Mozilla as WebKit—not just for the mobile Safari—is dominating smartphones. Even Blackberry and Android have adopted WebKit because of it's highly mobile design.

Originally Posted by bigmike

The single fact that you have to use a stylus (other than being unoriginal) makes this thing lame.

There are plenty that like having a stylus as it does allow for many fine-tuned usage that the iPhone's finger-usage just can't match and won't match. The 5800 may be geared toward better media and internet to compete more directly with the iPhone, but it's still a more hardcore device than the iPhone in many ways. The most iPhone-like phone I've seen is the Sprint Instinct as it's going after the average consumer who probably hasn't ever used a smartphone before, and that is fine for those that want to stay with Sprint (I know several). I love my iPhone as it suits my specific needs, but the 5800 looks like a very solid device that merges popular iPhone features with the Nokia-experience, which happens to have a nice size fan base, too.

[nagromme]

I don't think "Flash Lite" is going to give you the "entire" Web either...

[success]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

crisper 640x360 screen
3.2-megapixel camera with flash and video recording
removable storage
Flash Lite 3 is built in
8GB memory card
year's worth of unlimited but permanent music downloads.

Not a bad start really.

[Druth086]

What all these companies fall to realize is that not all consumers sit there and tally up the features...I believe that what is most attractive to the tech world is that aesthetics of a device. All these phone companies can continually make devices that have all (or more) of the same features as the iPhone and make no head way because they fail to realize is that the lure of the iPhone is ease of use and the pure beauty of the device. All these devices slap an iPhone in an awkward and ugly plastic coating and they think that people will choose that over the iPhone's metal and glass?

[JeffDM]

Flash Lite isn't enough, I think this should be an all or nothing. I don't even know how many flash objects are compatible with Flash Lite.

Originally Posted by quamb

What a blatant rip-off of the iPhone.

Sure the rest of the industry are (poorly) copying the iPhone, but thought Nokia would have at least come up with something slightly unique. Sad.

I don't think it's really a copy, there are quite a few differences that are easy to see. It's kind of hard to make a black rectangle look much more different, and it doesn't seem to have the chrome bezel. I think it's less of a copy of several thematic elements than other touch screen phones are.

Originally Posted by CREB

People are forgetting about some of the philosophies of Nokia regarding women consumers—women will take notice of this phone. And unfortunately (clone or not) it will bite into Apple iPhone sales.

Forgetting? I've never even heard of a Nokia philosophy regarding women consumers.

[success]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

Forgetting? I've never even heard of a Nokia philosophy regarding women consumers.

Well the phone DOES vibrate

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

Flash Lite isn't enough, I think this should be an all or nothing. I don't even know how many flash objects are compatible with Flash Lite.

It's based on Flash 7, which debuted in 2003. I have no idea what was taken out or put in, but it's certainly isn't what people are asking for when they ask for Flash on the iPhone. It also has many issues with performance and power usage, but that is expected.

PS: Daring Fireball's Gruber has a good argument as to why Apple will never add Flash to the iPhone, but with only a fraction of phones even using the inept Flash Lite if Apple were to get Adobe to get a solid version of Flash working for the iPhone it would further push OS X iPhone ahead even further as it would be the only phone with this functionality for awhile.

[Daniel0418]

Originally Posted by teckstud

No it's not- does the iPhone have Flash?

Nokia has semi copied the iphone but not really. Every company copies every company since the beginning of time this is nothing new. Apple is not 100% original with there products either. Anyway I don't like that this phone isn't multi touch or the fact that apple has such a strong hold on multi touch. Eh... first itunes... now multi touch. How can you own a function. Anyway I do like this new phone has flash and a full HTML browser which is what the iphone has that goes to the moron who didn't know that. Anyway if nokias browser actually works especially with flash unlike the iphone which doesn't have flash and still crashes all the time. If I remember correctly it was apple who said. Flash will never be in a phone unless the phone has a built in fan, it will run too hot. HA! morons. Stupid apple.

[kim kap sol]

Originally Posted by nagromme

I don't think "Flash Lite" is going to give you the "entire" Web either...

But eeeeeeeveryone wants to have access to those "shoot the monkey", "do 20 pull-ups", and "George Bush has an IQ of 129...are you smarter than him" ads. And Flash is the only way to access those oh-so-wonderful ads.

[winterspan]

Here's my take:

# The screen resolution is nice, but the resistive "touchscreen" aka "stylus tap screen" on this thing makes it a non-starter for anyone that has ever touched an iPhone/Touch.

# They basically took the regular Symbian S60 and hacked it around to make it more "touchscreen" friendly. Compared this to the hype and expectations of a totally new revamped touch interface. The interface is still very inconsistent and quirky, like requiring manipulation of scroll bars instead of just swiping to scroll, and some contexts require double-taps where as others require single taps for what is seemingly the same operation. Overall very disappointing, and I think this is one of the reasons they are not advertising this as a high-end "iPhone killer".

# Although the web browser does use webkit as a rendering engine, it is nowhere near as functional as iPhone Safari. It renders HTML pages how they are meant to be seen, but panning and zooming operations look slow, choppy, difficult to use and overall very frustrating compared to the smooth and intuitive operations of iPhone Safari.

# On the other hand, it looks ok for use as a basic music phone, although I wouldn't expect great video playback performance.

[Ireland]

While we're talking about competition here's what I would love to see in the next major release of iPhone hardware. The iPhone will probably hit 32GB in Jan, the 3rd Gen iPhone, due for release in summer 2009, I want:

32GB Storage, 640x360 3.5" OLED display, 4MP camera with video recording right out of the box. A flash for that camera would be nice too.

Thanks.

[jfanning]

Originally Posted by Daniel0418

Nokia has semi copied the iphone but not really.

That makes no sense

[jfanning]

Originally Posted by winterspan

Here's my take:

# The screen resolution is nice, but the resistive "touchscreen" aka "stylus tap screen" on this thing makes it a non-starter for anyone that has ever touched an iPhone/Touch.

here is my take.

it isn't an iPhone competitor as others have said (Nokia will say this as well), but it is an alterative (like all phones are)

Most people cannot afford (or do not want to pay) the service plan associated with an iPhone, making this phone (and all of the Nokia phones you can buy unlocked) a major advantage

Originally Posted by winterspan

# They basically took the regular Symbian S60 and hacked it around to make it more "touchscreen" friendly. Compared this to the hype and expectations of a totally new revamped touch interface.

Touch screens are not a new thing, they have been out for a long time. all touch screen interfaces (including the majority of the iPhone interface) are just adjusted to make them more finger friendly.

And for the multi-touch, that is not an Apple invention, and they don't own the rights to it. Others will start doing it, and will do it better that Apple does (I find the multi-touch on the iPhone/iPod touch very unresponsive)

Originally Posted by winterspan

# On the other hand, it looks ok for use as a basic music phone, although I wouldn't expect great video playback performance.

Why would you say that without seeing it? A lot of reports say the iPod isn't the best music player, or video player for that matter (the lack of supported formats is one example). So you are going to downplay a device that hasn't been released yet.

[MLP]

Originally Posted by Ireland

While we're talking about competition here's what I would love to see in the next major release of iPhone hardware. The iPhone will probably hit 32GB in Jan, the 3rd Gen iPhone, due for release in summer 2009, I want:

32GB Storage, 640x360 3.5" OLED display, 4MP camera with video recording right out of the box. A flash for that camera would be nice too.

Thanks.

I wish the 3rd gen iPhone will have an e2e (edge to edge) screen that spans the entire front space of the iPhone. Why can't Apple place the home button at the right side of the phone and the earpiece on the chrome rim? This will allow a large 5" screen that makes video watching, game playing and web surfing much more enjoyable!

[zunx]

This demonstrates that the iPhone price is OBSCENE (besides being linked to a contract, which blocks many sales). Competition is good.

[irnchriz]

Originally Posted by MacTel

Not bad for a phone that will be given away for free in 6 months. Nokia is about bulk. They'll probably sell a 100 million of them in year's time.

Apple shook-up the industry and now the industry is catching up. What's next Apple?

HARDLY !

This is more like Nokia playing catch up to LG rather than Apple. A 'Push' touch screen with a stylus and haptic feedback. That will be the LG KU990 then. lol

[RichL]

I said this in another thread but I'll repeat myself...

The problem for Nokia is that this isn't a direct competitor to the iPhone. As noted, it's under half the price of the iPhone. This is no N- or E-series smartphone. That won't stop commentators from comparing it to the iPhone as if it were equally priced though.

There seems to be a lot of ignorance on AI about the capabilities of S60. That's not surprising as this is a North America-centric site. Yes, it'll sync with iTunes. Yes, it'll sync with iSync. Yes, it's web-browser is WebKit based and supports both Flash Lite 3 (aka Flash 8) and Silverlight. No, you don't have to use the stylus for anything apart from hand-writing recognition (which isn't even mandatory).

[AHeneen]

Originally Posted by bigmike

The single fact that you have to use a stylus (other than being unoriginal) makes this thing lame.

Originally Posted by winterspan

# The screen resolution is nice, but the resistive "touchscreen" aka "stylus tap screen" on this thing makes it a non-starter for anyone that has ever touched an iPhone/Touch.

Did you people read the article? It says:

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

the 5800 uses a single-touch display and comes bundled with a stylus to handle aspects of the interface that can't be controlled with a finger.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

It is a touchscreen where your use your finger to control things. The stylus is included for those small keys that "can't be controlled with a finger". I personally don't like the iPhone's keyboard, due to its small size and the fact that I frequently mistype using it. A stylus to complement the touchscreen is welcoming for me as I think it would be very helpful for those emails, notes, etc where I type a lot.

Remember that the world does not always revolve around you...there are others with different needs/desires out there too. I love my mac, and love reading the latest Apple rumors here on AI...but, my God, some of you are just the most arrogant people I've seen. Wasn't Apple's old advertising campaign Think Different...that's advise I suggest to you!!

[Elijahg]

Originally Posted by MLP

I wish the 3rd gen iPhone will have an e2e (edge to edge) screen that spans the entire front space of the iPhone. Why can't Apple place the home button at the right side of the phone and the earpiece on the chrome rim? This will allow a large 5" screen that makes video watching, game playing and web surfing much more enjoyable!

Where would the speakers, headphone jack, sim tray and microphone go? They use quite a lot of space, which is why the screen isn't the whole display. iPhone would have to be much thicker at the top and bottom to accommodate the combined thickness of the display plus the components currently in the black space.

[bavlondon2]

This 'Comes with music' thing is BS and will never take off. The fact is that subscrtion based music will never take off. If people really wanted that then Napster would be the kings not Itunes. Ncie try Nokia but it will take more than this to knock iphone of its perch.

Also we should bear in mind that the 5800 is not the flagshipfor S60 touch. That will come soon but at that point im sure the iphone next gen phone will once again wipe the floor with all.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by AHeneen

Did you people read the article? :???

What part of Winterspan's resistive touchscreen" implies that you can't use your finger? The iPhone is so innovative for many is the use of a capacitance touchscreen. The resistive touchscreen, what all typical stylus based smartphones use and Winterspan compared it to with his "aka" statement, offers less options to the user simply because you do have to physically press the screen to register an input. Just being able to use a finger doesn't mean it's the same experience as the iPhone's patented capacitance touchscreen display.

[ncee]

What's the worts that could come from …

- Apple makes some NEEDED changes, and makes them Sooner then later …
- Apple makes available the "Inexpensive iPhone" sooner then later …

A BASIC Iphone at $109.00 ish, will blow the doors off of most anything else that could come down the pike.
- Making this basic model available to any company that wants to sell them …
- Making it work on as many networks as possible …

Because Apple knows, if they get you to purchase a basic model anything, it will be just a matter of time, before you buy up to the next best model, and then up to the best model.

But ALL of this will need to happen sooner then later, as most of us know, once you have a contract, well, you won't be buying anything else until the contract is done.

Now there is always the chance that Apple is content with just a small part of the High-end phone sales, in which case, all of the above is for not, but I believe Apple is looking for as much as they can get and have, as quick as they can have it. And based on that, I believe some of what I said above will come true … sooner then later.

S

[jfanning]

Originally Posted by ncee

A BASIC Iphone at $109.00 ish, will blow the doors off of most anything else that could come down the pike.
- Making this basic model available to any company that wants to sell them …
- Making it work on as many networks as possible …

Because Apple knows, if they get you to purchase a basic model anything, it will be just a matter of time, before you buy up to the next best model, and then up to the best model.

Apple won't make this "Basic" model, as unlike the iPod, there isn't the profit they demand in this area

[markb]

I think one interesting point people (in the US and Europe) are neglecting in playing up this new phone...This phone wont even be available for 4-6months. Comparing it against the iPhone as it stands misses the point. While its unlikely any major hardware changes will come in that time (a memory size bump is possible I suppose) do you think Apple and its carriers are gonna remain flat footed against something they can see coming a mile away? They will add features to the software, changes subscription rate pricing, etc. to deal with these new phones, and due to the excellent software model and relatively high pricing, they have a LOT of ability to move quickly in both of the aforementioned areas.

Businesses try to pace themselves and innovations. Even if they are able to deliver a product that is 10x better than their competition, they usually scale it back and deliver a 2-3x advantage so that they have a "management reserve" to deal with unforeseen competition. They could have added many more features to the iPhone already and maybe cut costs in half, but they havent needed to yet.

Competition is good, and while the new Nokia doesnt have any appeal to me as ease of use is as important as capability, more competition will mean Apple has to give us even more.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by ncee

What's the worts that could come from …

- Apple makes some NEEDED changes, and makes them Sooner then later …
- Apple makes available the "Inexpensive iPhone" sooner then later …

A BASIC Iphone at $109.00 ish, will blow the doors off of most anything else that could come down the pike.

There is certainly a large group that want to combine an iPod and their phone, but don't want the internet side of things, but Apple won't cater to them so soon as it doesn't look like the iPhone saturation point has been met. Once that happens we'll surely see a new iPhone model that targets a different market segment, like we did with the iPod Mini.

A $100 iPhone won't happen. There just isn't any profit there. The 8GB iPod Nano costs $149. Imagine a $200—$250 iPhone Nano that is a basic cellphone with the Nano media player thrown in. This could be subsidized by the carrier making it free for a two year contract, but if I were Apple I'd making any partners agree to only sell it for full price without a contract or at ~$100 with only a one-year contract to help spur new sales with the next revision.

[ChronoFlare]

Originally Posted by genericposts

The Comes with Music thing will be a hit. DRM free music, able to trasfer it to any device, is an instant hit. Even Amazon is showing great signs of promise. iTunes DRM days may be numbered if they do not start offering DRM free music. As there are several DRM removal scenarios available for iTunes purchased music, and hopefully one coming for video media as well, the 5800 is poised to jump right in the face of Apple in terms of content management, and user experience.

Interesting times are coming.

Just throwing this out there, but there is iTunes Plus, which is DRM free music... It may cost a little more money, but it is available as an option. This is something Apple openly supported earlier this year, encouraging the recording industry to generally turn away from DRM.