LG holds iMac-suitable touchscreen; new iTunes plus hints

[AppleInsider]

One of the companies who supplies display panels for the iMac line is said to have a touch-screen version ready for Apple's picking. Meanwhile, iTunes shoppers have discovered hints that the company may be preparing to broaden its iTunes Plus service with more DRM-free tracks.

Touchscreen iMac display

LG recently opened the doors of one of its factories to gadget publication Stuff.tv, a move that revealed the electronics maker to be working on "full multitouch display for computers."

Seeing as LG supplies displays for the iMac, Stuff speculates that the discovery "actually points to something far bigger – a multitouch Mac."

The report is mostly speculative, however, and provides no evidence to suggest that Apple holds any near term plans to use the part, though it's said that the touch-screen display appears to be ready for production.

Despite the appearance of a related job posting and some patents covering full-sized multi-touch devices, Apple has largely relegated the concept of touch-screen Macs to a "research project."

During a question and answer session last year, Apple chief executive Steve Jobs noted that multi-touch technology is nicely suited for the iPhone but said he was "not sure it makes sense" on the Mac.

More iTunes Plus tracks arriving

Meanwhile, a couple of readers this weekend noted some strange happenings on iTunes Store. Specifically, they claim that a handful of tracks from record labels Universal, Sony BMG, and Warner appeared briefly as tracks upgradable to iTunes Plus format.

Of the four major record labels, only EMI has announced support for the DRM-free iTunes format. However, recent reports have suggested that Apple is currently in talks with the remaining three labels over offering their catalogs through iTunes Plus in the near future.



In particular, readers claim that tracks from 3 Doors Down, Nine Inch Nails, and Neil Young were briefly available for upgrade to iTunes Plus. Although AppleInsider could not reproduce the majority of those findings on Monday morning, it did discover that a handful of Neil Young tracks (Warner) show up as iTunes Plus tracks through the iTunes search function (but not on their respective album pages).

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[tacojohn]

I buy all of my music from Amazon now because it works on all of my devices...

[Olternaut]

AGAIN my thread gets dissed!

For the record I was first. Anyways, I guess I will stick to this thread and abandon mine.

[Olternaut]

Originally Posted by tacojohn

I buy all of my music from Amazon now because it works on all of my devices...

I do too. And amazon has a little application that makes porting over music and album art over to itunes a breeze.
Its funny though, I thought for sure we would have seen a new multi-touch mobile device first before we would have seen a multi-touch screened iMac.

MacWorld will be here soon.

[Jimzip]

Originally Posted by tacojohn

I buy all of my music from Amazon now because it works on all of my devices...

I wish we had that in Canada...

Jimzip

[satchmo]

Originally Posted by Olternaut

Its funny though, I thought for sure we would have seen a new multi-touch mobile device first before we would have seen a multi-touch screened iMac.

I hope we never see one. Or if we do, it had better have a clever implentation.
Moving things around on a large screen with your arms all over the place seems more cumbersome than using a mouse. Perhaps if the iMac were horizontally mounted like a screen on a tabletop rather than vertical.

[crees!]

Originally Posted by satchmo

I hope we never see one. Or if we do, it had better have a clever implentation.
Moving things around on a large screen with your arms all over the place seems more cumbersome than using a mouse. Perhaps if the iMac were horizontally mounted like a screen on a tabletop rather than vertical.

I'd think a multi-touch pro keyboard would be a possible next leap for the desktop if not going full-blown touch display.

[Pachomius]

I agree - a touch screen mac doesn't seem very practical. I'm not sure that you would ever use it for much more than swiping through your pics - but why not just use the arrow key? A mouse pointer is much more exact than your finger. I see the HP touch computers and I think that there's not really anything useful there.

On the other hand - if anyone can come up with something interesting and useful that incorporates a touch screen on the computer, it'll be Apple.

P

[Expat]

Originally Posted by satchmo

I hope we never see one. Or if we do, it had better have a clever implentation.
Moving things around on a large screen with your arms all over the place seems more cumbersome than using a mouse. Perhaps if the iMac were horizontally mounted like a screen on a tabletop rather than vertical.

Exactly. This is what I was thinking when HP put out that touch iMac clone. People think touch will replace a keyboard and mouse, but the last thing I would want to do is spend 8 hours a day at work with my arms out like Frankenstein's monster using a desktop touch monitor.

I can't say I have much use for a touch tablet either, but a tablet would make FAR more sense than a desktop model.

[BenRoethig]

Originally Posted by Pachomius

On the other hand - if anyone can come up with something interesting and useful that incorporates a touch screen on the computer, it'll be Apple.

This is one area, unfortunately where Apple has been beaten to the punch.

[GregoriusM]

Does it matter?

Someone beat Apple to the punch in the area of cell phones too.

And just because someone beat them to the punch, does the product work well?

[irnchriz]

I wonder how close Apple are to a subscription based music service?

[hmurchison]

Full Multi Touch screens are only a benefit to portable devices for obvious ergonomic reason.

[walshbj]

Originally Posted by BenRoethig

This is one area, unfortunately where Apple has been beaten to the punch.

I sure don't agree with that. I do agree with other comments about not wanting to spend the day with arms out in front. Get ready for some giant ergonomics pamphlets in your HP box along with the first lawsuits. And touch on a laptop makes no sense to me. A track pad is a scaled version of your display, that makes more sense for travel distance when dragging.

In addition to reaching your arms out, today's screens have a lot of space to drag across. That said, I haven't used the HP product at all.

I firmly believe small tablets will eventually replace laptops for road warriors. Laptops are cumbersome and unsuitable for airplanes (in coach). In many cases they're simply overkill, but a phone isn't quite enough.

If not this Macworld we'll see the tablet at the next one. How's that for a bold prediction.

[silverpraxis]

Originally Posted by Pachomius

I agree - a touch screen mac doesn't seem very practical. I'm not sure that you would ever use it for much more than swiping through your pics - but why not just use the arrow key? A mouse pointer is much more exact than your finger. I see the HP touch computers and I think that there's not really anything useful there.

On the other hand - if anyone can come up with something interesting and useful that incorporates a touch screen on the computer, it'll be Apple.

P

I've seen a lot of point of sale apps that make great use of touchscreen capabilities. Personally, I wouldn't want to get oily fingerprints and swipes all over my beautiful glossy display!

[FuturePastNow]

It has taken me 5+ years to train friends and family not to touch LCDs. DO NOT PRESS ON THE MONITOR, I tell them. All for naught.

[NeilM]

Despite the fingerprints, my iPhone 3G's touchscreen is an excellent tradeoff against the bulk and weight of a physical keyboard.

But if there's one thing I don't need it's greasy smears all over my Mac's screen. We already have plenty of input device options in the keyboard, mouse and trackpad (now with gestures). Yes, a touchscreen may be desirable for specialized applications such as kiosks, but for a personal computer? You can keep it.

[freelander51]

Originally Posted by FuturePastNow

It has taken me 5+ years to train friends and family not to touch LCDs. DO NOT PRESS ON THE MONITOR, I tell them. All for naught.

I have taught my four year old in vain not to touch screens. And now he knows how to operate an iPhone like a breeze.

[wobegon]

Announcing the expansion of iTunes Plus to all music in the iTS at Macworld would be epic! Not that it would really affect me personally since I generally prefer lesser-known and indie artists who usually put their stuff up in iTunes Plus by default, but it's sort of like if The Beatles were made available there - I already have all their stuff, it'd just be great progress in the digital distribution space. What if The Beatles' music is ready and Apple get them to put it up in iTunes Plus!!?? That would send a message to the stubborn major labels (excluding EMI, obviously).

[robb01]

Originally Posted by freelander51

I have taught my four year old in vain not to touch screens. And now he knows how to operate an iPhone like a breeze.

Awesome

__________

[webhead]

Originally Posted by tacojohn

I buy all of my music from Amazon now because it works on all of my devices...

Doesn't the lack of DRM on the iTunes plus tracks (hopefull all iTunes music soon) mean music purchased on iTunes will work on all your devices as well?

[BenRoethig]

Originally Posted by webhead

Doesn't the lack of DRM on the iTunes plus tracks (hopefull all iTunes music soon) mean music purchased on iTunes will work on all your devices as well?

A) iTunes Plus is only available on EMI and independent label music.
B) ACCs are used instead of MP3s. ACC is supported by the iPod and Zune, but pretty sporadic after that.

[HandMade Monster]

Originally Posted by BenRoethig

A) iTunes Plus is only available on EMI and independent label music.
B) ACCs are used instead of MP3s. ACC is supported by the iPod and Zune, but pretty sporadic after that.

I just finished upgrading the Corpse Bride soundtrack to +.
From the Warner catalogue.

M

[Jimzip]

Aw, I would love an all iTunes Plus catalogue so much...

I agree with the touchscreen iMac comments though, it would have to be done *very* well, and though I trust Apple - if anyone - would do it, I don't know whether it's the best advancement. I'd prefer a touchscreen keyboard actually, that way it could change depending on context, and could double as a trackpad... Potentially reducing the need for a mouse if it got good enough I suppose.

Jimzip

[paxman]

Originally Posted by Jimzip

Aw, I would love an all iTunes Plus catalogue so much...

I agree with the touchscreen iMac comments though, it would have to be done *very* well, and though I trust Apple - if anyone - would do it, I don't know whether it's the best advancement. I'd prefer a touchscreen keyboard actually, that way it could change depending on context, and could double as a trackpad... Potentially reducing the need for a mouse if it got good enough I suppose.

Jimzip

What I want is a thin, small format, wifi, touch screen, iTunes client for my living room.

[bwik]

Confirmed! Neil Young's "Everybody knows this is nowhere" showed up for me on the big list over the weekend. It is gone now. It certainly was an indication of AAC+ existing on their servers. Can't wait!!

[wobegon]

Originally Posted by BenRoethig

A) iTunes Plus is only available on EMI and independent label music.

I think that's why he said, albeit in parenthesis "(hopefully all iTunes music soon)."

Originally Posted by BenRoethig

B) ACCs are used instead of MP3s. ACC is supported by the iPod and Zune, but pretty sporadic after that.

Hmm, guess it depends what you mean by "pretty sporadic." Here's a list from wikipedia of PMPs capable of AAC playback:

Creative Zen Portable
SanDisk Sansa
Sony PlayStation Portable (PSP) with firmware 2.0 or greater
Sony Walkman
SonyEricsson Walkman Phones-W series, e.g. W890i
Nintendo DSi To be released in America mid-2009
Nintendo Wii
Slacker G2 Personal Radio Player

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance...oding#Hardware

I'm sure there are more than that and of course, it's nothing to convert unprotected AACs to MP3s. In addition, it's nearly as easy to remove FairPlay DRM by burning a CD of the protected tracks and then re-importing them back into iTunes; I think you can burn them to DVD and get the same effect as well.

[auxio]

Every major display manufacturer in the world has multitouch now. It's not news. Trouble is, every attempted mass-market application they can show for it can be achieved better with a remote control or other input device. Who wants to have to walk up and use their hands to manipulate pictures on a screen when they can sit on their couch and do the same thing?

Multitouch only makes sense in certain applications and certain settings. Right now there is no compelling mass-market use for it.

[Haggar]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

During a question and answer session last year, Apple chief executive Steve Jobs noted that multi-touch technology is nicely suited for the iPhone but said he was "not sure it makes sense" on the Mac.

There will be no video iPod. Nobody wants to watch video on an iPod.

Apple will not make a mobile phone.

From CNNMoney.com, "The trouble with Steve Jobs":

Often Jobs would suddenly "flip," taking an idea that he'd mocked (maybe your idea) and embracing it passionately - and as his own - without ever acknowledging that his view had changed. "He has this ability to change his mind and completely forget his old opinion about something," says a former close colleague who asked not to be named. "It's weird. He can say, 'I love white; white is the best.' And then three months later say, 'Black is the best; white is not the best.' He doesn't live with his mistake. It evaporates."

[joelsalt]

Originally Posted by auxio

Every major display manufacturer in the world has multitouch now. It's not news. Trouble is, every attempted mass-market application they can show for it can be achieved better with a remote control or other input device. Who wants to have to walk up and use their hands to manipulate pictures on a screen when they can sit on their couch and do the same thing?

Multitouch only makes sense in certain applications and certain settings. Right now there is no compelling mass-market use for it.

I would hesitate to say "no," because there could be some. A mouse pointer has only 1 tip, but some applications might make good use of two digits, although I do tend to agree with you.

A new keyboard wit ha multi-touch glass track-pad on it would be nice, though could potentially make the key board too large.

[mikeske]

Originally Posted by auxio

Every major display manufacturer in the world has multitouch now. It's not news. Trouble is, every attempted mass-market application they can show for it can be achieved better with a remote control or other input device. Who wants to have to walk up and use their hands to manipulate pictures on a screen when they can sit on their couch and do the same thing?

Multitouch only makes sense in certain applications and certain settings. Right now there is no compelling mass-market use for it.

I tried out a multi touch HP the other day at a office box store and I found it rather different but I would not spend the dollars as it would not work in my office. I have a wireless keyboard and mouse so I can get away from sitting to close to the screen and type with the keyboard in my lap. I think that Steve Jobs was right in the fact that multi touch is a interesting device for small things like the iPod and iPhone but it will not be the next great thing for a desktop, I know I would not buy one.

[Expat]

Originally Posted by joelsalt

I would hesitate to say "no," because there could be some. A mouse pointer has only 1 tip, but some applications might make good use of two digits, although I do tend to agree with you.

As we all know, Apple has multi-digit trackpads, and I think this is the way to go. I have to agree when it was said earlier, though, that there isn't anything you could do on a touch monitor that you couldn't do better with a more typical means if control (mouse, trackpad)

On top of that, I cant think of any applications that would benefit from it. Photoshop maybe, but that is better with a stylus, not your fingers. Maybe programs for the elderly or children, but that's all. I know plenty of people dream of "minority report" computers, but when I think of touch all I think of is a crappy toshiba tablet I used to have at work (which was worthless) and that microsoft surface that only seems to be useful if all you use a computer for is resizing pictures with two fingers and then shuffling them about.

[wobegon]

Originally Posted by auxio

Every major display manufacturer in the world has multitouch now. It's not news. Trouble is, every attempted mass-market application they can show for it can be achieved better with a remote control or other input device. Who wants to have to walk up and use their hands to manipulate pictures on a screen when they can sit on their couch and do the same thing?

Multitouch only makes sense in certain applications and certain settings. Right now there is no compelling mass-market use for it.

Exactly, though the iPhone/iPod touch and Apple's MultiTouch trackpad-sporting laptops obviously represent the correct "applications and settings." I also don't understand why some keep propagating the idea of a touch screen keyboard for Apple's desktop computers! While the iPhone's touch screen keyboard works better than those cramped, physical keyboards found on most smart phones, a full-size, touch screen keyboard would simply be no match for a physical one. Tapping on an expensive, giant piece of glass with no feedback is not most people's idea of fun.

What might make more sense is Apple allowing people's iPhones and iPod touches to serve as external, MultiTouch, motion sensitive trackpads, allowing you to use the gestures Apple's already programed with the added bonus of visual feedback. You could pull things on the main display down into the iPhone's, for doodling on pictures and setting up directions using Google Maps (yes, like DED's proposed idea).

[Dazabrit]

Originally Posted by wobegon

Exactly, though the iPhone/iPod touch and Apple's MultiTouch trackpad-sporting laptops obviously represent the correct "applications and settings." I also don't understand why some keep propagating the idea of a touch screen keyboard for Apple's desktop computers! While the iPhone's touch screen keyboard works better than those cramped, physical keyboards found on most smart phones, a full-size, touch screen keyboard would simply be no match for a physical one. Tapping on an expensive, giant piece of glass with no feedback is not most people's idea of fun.

What might make more sense is Apple allowing people's iPhones and iPod touches to serve as external, MultiTouch, motion sensitive trackpads, allowing you to use the gestures Apple's already programed with the added bonus of visual feedback. You could pull things on the main display down into the iPhone's, for doodling on pictures and setting up directions using Google Maps (yes, like DED's proposed idea).

I imagine those complaints could be addressed though. Haptic technology for physical feedback and some kind of aural feedback system based on the area you strike (a different click sound for a different zone you strike?).
I imagine you could tie a few different ideas like this in a tidy Apple-esque package. You could learn to flow between the different input methods in a very fluid fashion with intuitive sensors, feedback and gestures.

[wobegon]

Originally Posted by Dazabrit

I imagine those complaints could be addressed though. Haptic technology for physical feedback and some kind of aural feedback system based on the area you strike (a different click sound for a different zone you strike?).
I imagine you could tie a few different ideas like this in a tidy Apple-esque package. You could learn to flow between the different input methods in a very fluid fashion with intuitive sensors, feedback and gestures.

While they might be addressable, I don't think any amount of sensors (what kind?) or aural feedback (which sounds terrible, pardon the pun) will make a full-size, touch screen keyboard a better text input device than a physical, tactile keyboard. It works for the iPhone/iPod touch because 1) you're actually looking at the keyboard while your typing and 2) those tiny physical keyboards on most smart phones don't learn your mistake patterns (which the iPhone's virtual keyboard does), not to mention they're uncomfortable. Then you weigh in the cost of a full-size touch screen keyboard and it makes almost no sense at all.

[Dazabrit]

Originally Posted by wobegon

While they might be addressable, I don't think any amount of sensors (what kind?) or aural feedback (which sounds terrible, pardon the pun) will make a full-size, touch screen keyboard a better text input device than a physical, tactile keyboard. It works for the iPhone/iPod touch because 1) you're actually looking at the keyboard while your typing and 2) those tiny physical keyboards on most smart phones don't learn your mistake patterns (which the iPhone's virtual keyboard does), not to mention they're uncomfortable. Then you weigh in the cost of a full-size touch screen keyboard and it makes almost no sense at all.

I imagine the audio feedback could be practically unnoticeable. It would output the same kind of clicking sound as the keyboard but alter 'VERY' slightly based on which zone your fingers strike
so your subconcious makes sense of where your fingers are.

I guess sensors is the wrong word too really. I mean intelligent software features like the auto correction on the iPhone. Apples previously filed patents show a gesture recognition system that
allows you to sketch by clasping your fingers as if holding a pen, same approach for typing etc...

I can imagine something like this being very attractive to a lot of users because it gives you the same kind of chameleon input device that changes based upon the active application. The cost is definitely prohibitive though

[Takeo]

I hope the iMac Touch comes with a 1 liter bottle of windex... in a Jonathan Ive designed bottle of course.

[Tofino]

Originally Posted by Takeo

I hope the iMac Touch comes with a 1 liter bottle of windex... in a Jonathan Ive designed bottle of course.

you keep the windex as far away from my 30" and my 23" and my 20" cinema displays as possible. bad enough somebody touched my mac book pro screen again yesterday and i had to bite my tongue... not good to freak out on paying clients...

[wobegon]

Originally Posted by Dazabrit

I imagine the audio feedback could be practically unnoticeable. It would output the same kind of clicking sound as the keyboard but alter 'VERY' slightly based on which zone your fingers strike
so your subconcious makes sense of where your fingers are.

While I don't think that'd help much, I did make the mistake of thinking it would be aurally irritating because...a physical keyboard makes sounds too.

Originally Posted by Dazabrit

I guess sensors is the wrong word too really. I mean intelligent software features like the auto correction on the iPhone. Apples previously filed patents show a gesture recognition system that
allows you to sketch by clasping your fingers as if holding a pen, same approach for typing etc...

How would you apply gesture recognition to typing? Now perhaps they could apply what the mistake-pattern-learning (don't know what the official name is) system the iPhone uses, that would help. However, this still doesn't solve the problem of having to look down at the non-tactile keyboard to type! There have already been inexpensive systems that project a virtual keyboard onto any surface, say, a table top, and they never took off. The iPhone's virtual keyboard works because you're looking at it (or just barely above it at the text field) as you type (and again, the alternative - a micro chiclet keyboard - is not as good).

Originally Posted by Dazabrit

I can imagine something like this being very attractive to a lot of users because it gives you the same kind of chameleon input device that changes based upon the active application. The cost is definitely prohibitive though

I can understand the draw of a dynamic input device, but when you tell people that input device is also their keyboard, I think the resounding response would be "huh?" Apple doesn't really make "huh?" products, they make "oh! really!? WOW!" products. A separate dynamic input device, especially one that serves as a standalone device like an iPhone or iPod touch, is far more understandable for people to, say, hook up to their computer, enabling MultiTouch manipulation, without losing the physical keyboard that can be typed on without even thinking about it.

You also have to consider that, if your keyboard were touch sensitive, you'd have to hover your hands over it at all times or put them to the sides to avoid inputing text, unlike a physical keyboard that serves as a resting place for your finger tips. Requiring the user to turn on and off their keyboard via a software or hardware switch to avoid text input when resting their fingers on the touch screen would also be both a hindrance and simply an odd idea for users, new and old, to grasp.

[wheelhot]

Yeah, I would prefer a full multi-touch keyboard which means that the key can be changed to different layout so that people who uses different language to type can just change their keyboard layout to the language they are often too. But of course the problem of tactile feedback must first be fixed for that to happen.

I don't see people will often use a touch display which requires them to lift up their hand from their keyboard and mouse just to touch the screen and drag a picture.