Apple's Snow Leopard still evolving, developers say

[AppleInsider]

Although there's been some evidence to suggest Snow Leopard could hit the market several months ahead of expectations, new information reveals that Apple remains heavily engaged in building out some of the features first previewed back in June.

In particular, developers on the web note that new copies of the software surfacing this week arrived with fresh additions to Grand Central, a new architecture designed by Apple to make it easier for programmers to take advantage of Macs with two or many processor cores. At the same time, some previously available functions have changed.

Another well-publicized area of the next-generation Mac OS X still under heavy revision is 64 support and a 64-bit kernel. While many of the Macs introduced during the first half of the year are compatible with the latter, those introduced this fall have yet to see the same treatment.

With nearly all of the forward-facing applications in Snow Leopard due for upgrades to Apple's object-oriented Cocoa programming interface, including the Finder, there's also a long but expected laundry list problems that will be need to be smoothed out in the coming months. One of these applications is Font Book, which is reportedly far from complete.

For the time being, outside developers remain tasked with testing Microsoft Exchange support, a technology Apple said would find its way into Snow Leopard's versions of Mail, iCal and Address Book. They've reportedly been asked to ignore some other areas of the system, such as non-optimal power management on notebooks that will be addressed later on.

While announcing Snow Leopard at its annual developers conference this past June, Apple vouched to deliver the software to end users "about a year" later. However, speculation that the software could see a release several months earlier was boosted when an Apple official displayed a presentation slide during an system administrator's conference last month showing the first quarter of 2009 -- or March -- as a target launch date.

As always, readers can keep up to date on the latest Snow Leopard rumblings through AppleInsider's Mac OS X 10.6 topics page and the ongoing Road to Snow Leopard series.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[columbus]

Doesn't sound like they'll be ready til Spring/Summer.

What money on the first person to say Apple is late, based on a rumour it may ship early, even though no ship date has been announced other than “about a year” from Summer 08.

[melgross]

Yup!

I keep saying that I don't see this before the ADC. This is much more work than some are assuming.

It's almost a total re-write of much of the OS, as well as the added functionality at the lower levels.

[Bageljoey]

Originally Posted by columbus

Doesn't sound like they'll be ready til Spring/Summer.

What money on the first person to say Apple is late, based on a rumour it may ship early, even though no ship date has been announced over than “about a year” from Summer 08.

Exactly. Come May we will hear over and over how Snow Leopard is late and it is just like Vista... People will wail and moan that they were waiting to buy their new 16 core Mac Pro but refuse to buy one with an "outdated" OS on it. (Expect some threats to buy a netbook instead...)
Then in July afterthe early adopters wait in line to buy the .0 release there will be complaints that it is not perfect. Apple's most buggy release since (fill in previous .0 release of choice).

Me, personally, I am happy to wait until they get it right. I see no urgent need to get SL out in a rush. Apple could use a calm launch after iPhone 2.0 and MobileMe...

[PeterO]

Originally Posted by Bageljoey

Exactly. Come May we will hear over and over how Snow Leopard is late and it is just like Vista... People will wail and moan that they were waiting to buy their new 16 core Mac Pro but refuse to buy one with an "outdated" OS on it. (Expect some threats to buy a netbook instead...)
Then in July afterthe early adopters wait in line to buy the .0 release there will be complaints that it is not perfect. Apple's most buggy release since (fill in previous .0 release of choice).

Me, personally, I am happy to wait until they get it right. I see no urgent need to get SL out in a rush. Apple could use a calm launch after iPhone 2.0 and MobileMe...

---- Well said.

[Marvin]

Originally Posted by melgross

This is much more work than some are assuming.

Including the people actually working on it though? That's where the assertion for Q1 comes from.

Even though the outside developers say it's got a long way to go, we still don't have any frame of reference as to how long it will take.

Developers often say that the system has a long way to go only a couple of months before the final release.

The developments in Snow Leopard are significant but there's no way we can say at this stage if it can or can't be released in Q1.

It seems fairly certain that it will likely be in March at the earliest though and this is stretching Q1 to the limit so we'll just have to see how developments go over the next couple of months and maybe get some info at MW.

Originally Posted by Bageljoey

I see no urgent need to get SL out in a rush.

The urgency is for the apps and drivers. I've only recently considered moving to Leopard because I don't want my apps to start breaking and introducing bugs that weren't there before.

My view is if it ain't broke don't upgrade unless it offers something major. Snow Leopard should offer something major but I want it to be in the hands of all developers soon so that they can make sure the apps work properly.

Otherwise, I might not upgrade for another year from now. If it's out in March then I might be able to upgrade earlier.

[MacTel]

Originally Posted by Bageljoey

Exactly. Come May we will hear over and over how Snow Leopard is late and it is just like Vista... People will wail and moan that they were waiting to buy their new 16 core Mac Pro but refuse to buy one with an "outdated" OS on it. (Expect some threats to buy a netbook instead...)
Then in July afterthe early adopters wait in line to buy the .0 release there will be complaints that it is not perfect. Apple's most buggy release since (fill in previous .0 release of choice).

Me, personally, I am happy to wait until they get it right. I see no urgent need to get SL out in a rush. Apple could use a calm launch after iPhone 2.0 and MobileMe...

Yep, I can definitely wait, but I would at least like a preview at MacWorld of what will make the cut in SL for the feature-set.

[wizard69]

It would be sad but if it takes Apple a 64 bit OS to fix it's WiFi stack on intel hardware then SL can't come fast enough! If there has been one disappointment that my early 2008 MBP has had it is the issues with WiFi that cause me the most grief. It needs to be fixed and the supplied stack of tools needs to be updated so that real diagnostics can be run by the user. Nothing burns my ass more than a piece of software saying it can't do something and not giving you any reason as to why.

The other issue I have with SL is that all the system apps will end up being built around the new libraries. Libraries that don't seem to be extremely stable in my mind. Of course this is part of what Apple is saying they are addressing so maybe things will firm up.


Dave

[hmurchison]

Apple no longer has the burden of devoting considerable resources to carbon developement. I'd expect that that has freed up many an engineer to work on
other tasks.

OpenCL is a group led effort with much input from Nvidia, Intel, AMD/ATI and Khronos Group. Apple's load here should be more minimal than home grown stuff.

I think Snow Leopard should be delivered when it lives up to its promise to polish and optimize OS X to the point where there aren't a bunch of complaints about x feature not working as purported.

I see a spring delivery perhaps in late April.

[kim kap sol]

I appreciate the optimism of some people like Marvin and Hiro (from another thread) but...

Marvin, it would be very difficult for Apple to hit a Q1 target when the frequent seeding hasn't begun yet.

Hiro, just because some Apple employee says something, doesn't make it official.

[flowney]

We were also promised QuickTime X on the same time line yet developers have not seen hide nor hair of that.

[EyeNsteinNo]

Sooner than later wish.

Guess a couple of months after SL comes out I'll be able get a Dell loaded with Linux for $100 due to their Going-out-of- business sale. Just to play with of course.

P.S. In the 28 years I have been buying computers none of them were Win machines.

If there's any delay it will probably be Win 7 'cause it will have a new standard to catch up with.

[LukeD]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

While many of the Macs introduced during the first half of the year are compatible with the latter, those introduced this fall have yet to see the same treatment.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

What the heck does that mean? Early 2008 MacBook Pros are compatible with Snow Leopard, but Late 2008 MacBook Pros are not?

[Phlake]

Exactly. As part of the transition to the 64 bit kernel, all drivers have to be rewritten. To give the developers a chance to debug the core OS without additional bugs caused by a bunch of new drivers, only a select few drivers were ported. Since development started before the late 2008 devices were finished, only the early 2008 computers are supported at this time.

[solipsism]

They've also seeded a server version of SL. I think this is the first one. I'll finally be able to install it as a VM. Hopefully it works well enough with the new MBs to at least offer basic driver functionality.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by solipsism

They've also seeded a server version of SL. I think this is the first one. I'll finally be able to install it as a VM. Hopefully it works well enough with the new MBs to at least offer basic driver functionality.

Are you running Leopard Server and is it as buggy as I'm reading? I'm thinking about getting certified in OS X server and I wonder if Apple is going have the published resources for SL Server. I figure the polish and optimization can go a LONG way with their server product.

[ascii]

I believe Steve said "about a year" at WWDC, so we still have 7 months to wait. But I'm surprised Grand Central is still getting "fresh additions."

It's fundamentally a very simple API isn't it? The OS just makes a queue for each processor, and you give it work units to do. If you want the work units to execute sequentially you add them to the same queue, otherwise address them to "any."

Probably my understanding is incomplete, but it seems like there's not too many ways to model an API for that. Two C functions? AddToSpecificQueue(block, queueId) AddToAnyQueue(block).

[melgross]

Originally Posted by Marvin

Including the people actually working on it though? That's where the assertion for Q1 comes from.

Really? Who that you know is working on saying that? The possible red circle around the date the we read of? That's certainly nothing. It's already been asserted that it could have been a mistake.

Even though the outside developers say it's got a long way to go, we still don't have any frame of reference as to how long it will take.

That's true, but from what we are reading about, it does seem to be a ways off.

Developers often say that the system has a long way to go only a couple of months before the final release.

Often? I'd say rarely.

The developments in Snow Leopard are significant but there's no way we can say at this stage if it can or can't be released in Q1.

We can't say so with a definite word, but unless Apple has something up its sleeve the way it did when it released 10.4 surprisingly early, there's no reason to believe that this will be three months early. That's VERY early. Why would Apple want to do that?

It seems fairly certain that it will likely be in March at the earliest though and this is stretching Q1 to the limit so we'll just have to see how developments go over the next couple of months and maybe get some info at MW.

Certainly March would be the earliest, though some wags here were predicting Macworld!

But March seems too early. Apple hasn't put out enough beta's yet for that.

The urgency is for the apps and drivers. I've only recently considered moving to Leopard because I don't want my apps to start breaking and introducing bugs that weren't there before.

My view is if it ain't broke don't upgrade unless it offers something major. Snow Leopard should offer something major but I want it to be in the hands of all developers soon so that they can make sure the apps work properly.

Otherwise, I might not upgrade for another year from now. If it's out in March then I might be able to upgrade earlier.

If Apple does go for a 64 bit kernel, then we will NEED all new 64 bit drivers. Remember how that screwed Win 64. I've got some expensive equipment here, I want to know they will work properly, or I won't upgrade. If people won't upgrade because of that, what advantage will they have gotten by coming out with the OS early?

That's easy. None!!!

In fact, it will be a marketing fiasco.

For people who are complaining on the other thread about lack of FW on the new MB, and the use of a mini DisplayPort connector on another, this will be a hurricane compared to the breeze of those complaints.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by ascii

I believe Steve said "about a year" at WWDC, so we still have 7 months to wait. But I'm surprised Grand Central is still getting "fresh additions."

It's fundamentally a very simple API isn't it? The OS just makes a queue for each processor, and you give it work units to do. If you want the work units to execute sequentially you add them to the same queue, otherwise address them to "any."

Probably my understanding is incomplete, but it seems like there's not too many ways to model an API for that. Two C functions? AddToSpecificQueue(block, queueId) AddToAnyQueue(block).

Ah! But if it were that simple, everyone would have already done it, including Apple. This is really quite complex.

[dagamer34]

Isn't iTunes still written in Carbon? When will that ever be moved to Cocoa? That has to be the largest app right now that still uses Carbon.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by dagamer34

Isn't iTunes still written in Carbon? When will that ever be moved to Cocoa? That has to be the largest app right now that still uses Carbon.

Well, FCS comes to mind. I think Shake is still in Carbon, though I'm not 100% on that.

[ascii]

Originally Posted by melgross

Ah! But if it were that simple, everyone would have already done it, including Apple. This is really quite complex.

Well, everyone has kinda already done it... the idea of using queues to manage parallel processing is not new (e.g. bank queues). Apple's innovation is moving it from programmer control to OS control - grand centralizing it. With knowledge of overall system load the OS is where this job should have been done all along.

But moving it from here to there shouldn't require a new API to be designed...

I hope the word "Grand" isn't going to anyone's head in Cupertino. Keep it simple and it will be a major success, but the path is littered with APIs that developers did not adopt due to complexity.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by ascii

Well, everyone has kinda already done it... the idea of using queues to manage parallel processing is not new (e.g. bank queues). Apple's innovation is moving it from programmer control to OS control - grand centralizing it. With knowledge of overall system load the OS is where this job should have been done all along.

But moving it from here to there shouldn't require a new API to be designed...

Apparently, it does.

[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by melgross

If Apple does go for a 64 bit kernel, then we will NEED all new 64 bit drivers. Remember how that screwed Win 64. I've got some expensive equipment here, I want to know they will work properly, or I won't upgrade. If people won't upgrade because of that, what advantage will they have gotten by coming out with the OS early?

That's easy. None!!!

In fact, it will be a marketing fiasco.

For people who are complaining on the other thread about lack of FW on the new MB, and the use of a mini DisplayPort connector on another, this will be a hurricane compared to the breeze of those complaints.

And the Firewire thread was a 1500 comment thread.


...

[melgross]

Originally Posted by TBaggins

And the Firewire thread was a 1500 comment thread.


...

Exactly!

[FineWine]

I don't know, but OS development at Apple is getting me depressed. I was so disappointed by Leopard. When it was released it was clear that they rushed it out - and they were late, by their own admission because it OS X 10.5 just was not a priority compared to iPhone development.

To me the entire reason SL exists is that this is what Leopard should have been to begin with.

I have simply skipped Leopard. I'm still on 10.4.11 - and from looking at my friend's adventures with Leopard to this day, Tiger is STILL more stable. And frankly there are no features of Leopard that I'm salivating over.

I wanted to buy some new hardware - iMac - but I wanted to wait for SL before I did that. Now it means I'll have to wait longer. Anyhow, I wasn't going to rush out the moment 10.6 hit the street. I'll wait for 10.6.2 at least.

I truly hope SL will be worth waiting for, since Leopard was a giant disappointment. I've thought 10.2, 10.3, 10.4 were all significant jumps and improvements, but 10.5 was a huge disappointment. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for SL.

[kaiwai]

Who ever wrote this article did a pathetically terrible job at it.

Nothing of Snow Leopard is 'building out' - learn what building out means, building out would be the source code is being built and features that were promised are nothing being build (aka build out).

Please, don't use terms unless you know what the hell it means, its pathetic to see it in action so many damn times on this site. The correct term is that they're still building *IN* features. *IN* means features going *IN*, *OUT* means that features are being taken *OUT*.

[mdriftmeyer]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Apple no longer has the burden of devoting considerable resources to carbon developement. I'd expect that that has freed up many an engineer to work on
other tasks.

OpenCL is a group led effort with much input from Nvidia, Intel, AMD/ATI and Khronos Group. Apple's load here should be more minimal than home grown stuff.

I think Snow Leopard should be delivered when it lives up to its promise to polish and optimize OS X to the point where there aren't a bunch of complaints about x feature not working as purported.

I see a spring delivery perhaps in late April.

OpenCL was written by Apple and introduced to the Group at Khronos to adopt to, not the other way around which you imply as, ``I have this idea and can you do the heavy lifting for us to then write our APIs and put into the OS, thanks so much.''

Apple wrote OpenCL. They did the heavy lifting as a multi-year project. They had Nvidia, ATi and Intel in scope when they wrote it. They then brought in those bodies when it made sense to then work out the rest to ratify it as quickly as possible.

If it weren't for Apple doing the heavy lifting it would have stuck in limbo for a few years before finalization. That is what made it amazing to Nvidia, ATi and Intel. They didn't have to do much to have their stuff work with it.

Get it?

[melgross]

Originally Posted by kaiwai

Who ever wrote this article did a pathetically terrible job at it.

Nothing of Snow Leopard is 'building out' - learn what building out means, building out would be the source code is being built and features that were promised are nothing being build (aka build out).

Please, don't use terms unless you know what the hell it means, its pathetic to see it in action so many damn times on this site. The correct term is that they're still building *IN* features. *IN* means features going *IN*, *OUT* means that features are being taken *OUT*.

Are you familiar with this term in a technical way? Because it's also used here, in the USA, to mean making larger, as in "building out to there."

Removing, is the term you mean. At least that would be the way we would put it.

[Marvin]

Originally Posted by flowney

We were also promised QuickTime X on the same time line yet developers have not seen hide nor hair of that.

System-level stuff will come first. Quicktime is mainly user-level.

Originally Posted by melgross

Really? Who that you know is working on saying that? The possible red circle around the date the we read of? That's certainly nothing. It's already been asserted that it could have been a mistake.

It was the head 'BSD-side of OS X' developer who wrote it. I thought it could have been a mistake but someone pointed out he wrote it twice. It could have been another error rather than a typo though.

Originally Posted by melgross

If Apple does go for a 64 bit kernel, then we will NEED all new 64 bit drivers. Remember how that screwed Win 64. I've got some expensive equipment here, I want to know they will work properly, or I won't upgrade. If people won't upgrade because of that, what advantage will they have gotten by coming out with the OS early?

I wonder if it will be all that bad. Reports have said that SL will run on the original Core Duo 32-bit Intel Macs so SL should have both 32-bit and 64-bit support. Maybe they have a way to ensure 32-bit drivers can still run.

I don't have 3rd party drivers for any of my devices though so if they do the built-in ones, everything should work fine and they'll want top get the all 64-bit even if they can support 32-bit ones. Vista's problem is that it supports much more drivers than the Mac and a lot of 3rd party drivers broke.

Originally Posted by melgross

Well, FCS comes to mind. I think Shake is still in Carbon, though I'm not 100% on that.

Yeah Shake is still Carbon. I don't think they are updating it to Cocoa. It looks like they are dismantling it to use with a dumbed down Cocoa app like Motion much to my annoyance. No word on any major improvements in well over 3 years now I think. One of the stupidest moves they've ever made IMO. Buying one of the most important pieces of software the film industry has seen and then killing it.

It would be like buying Renderman and using the code to do render the reflections on the Dock.

They could of course be rewriting these apps from the ground up but I'll reserve the right to hate them every day until they say it's the case.

I actually find it a bit hypocritical how they tell developers like Adobe to transition to Cocoa when they haven't done it themselves.

Originally Posted by ascii

Apple's innovation is moving it from programmer control to OS control - grand centralizing it. With knowledge of overall system load the OS is where this job should have been done all along.

But moving it from here to there shouldn't require a new API to be designed...

I think it will need a change to programming conventions. If standard code could be parallelized easily, people would have done it ages ago. I'm not sure an API will do it but there may be guidelines as to how to program for parallel processing. It won't work for all code but hopefully there will be some automated compiling that does a better job than auto-vectorization on top that deals with threading.

Originally Posted by TBaggins

And the Firewire thread was a 1500 comment thread.

Otwayross made half of those though. I think he lives there now.

Originally Posted by FineWine

I have simply skipped Leopard. I'm still on 10.4.11 - and from looking at my friend's adventures with Leopard to this day, Tiger is STILL more stable. And frankly there are no features of Leopard that I'm salivating over.

Same here. I also find the graphics to be a bit to in my face. Drop shadows, dock etc. Same the iphone SDK is Leopard-only. Yet another example of Apple forcing upgrades on people.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by Marvin

I wonder if it will be all that bad. Reports have said that SL will run on the original Core Duo 32-bit Intel Macs so SL should have both 32-bit and 64-bit support. Maybe they have a way to ensure 32-bit drivers can still run.

A 64 bit kernel will require 64 bit drivers. There's no way around that at all. If it will somehow run on a 32 bit machine, then that machine, and version of the OS can use a 32 bit kernel. If they can somehow do that, then for those machines only, 32 bit drivers will suffice.

I don't have 3rd party drivers for any of my devices though so if they do the built-in ones, everything should work fine and they'll want top get the all 64-bit even if they can support 32-bit ones. Vista's problem is that it supports much more drivers than the Mac and a lot of 3rd party drivers broke.

Some of the more sophisticated devices need their own drivers and software for full feature support, even if Apple has their own.

My Canon iPF5100 printer requires Canon's software and Photoshop driver. My old, but still pretty good Hp CLS8500N printer can use Apple's drivers, but Hp's are much better.

Same with my scanners, cameras etc.

Some of these drivers are very complex, and Apple won't be able to duplicate drivers for all the machines out there. That's the same problem MS had with Vista. Ad MS has far more people to do this than Apple does. Apple will need these companies to do the drivers for their own machines. What happens when a machine is discontinued? One can't expect companies to work on drivers for machines they haven't sold for some time, even if they are still in top notch condition operationally, and quality wise.

Yeah Shake is still Carbon. I don't think they are updating it to Cocoa. It looks like they are dismantling it to use with a dumbed down Cocoa app like Motion much to my annoyance. No word on any major improvements in well over 3 years now I think. One of the stupidest moves they've ever made IMO. Buying one of the most important pieces of software the film industry has seen and then killing it.

It would be like buying Renderman and using the code to do render the reflections on the Dock.

They could of course be rewriting these apps from the ground up but I'll reserve the right to hate them every day until they say it's the case.

I actually find it a bit hypocritical how they tell developers like Adobe to transition to Cocoa when they haven't done it themselves.

Well, I keep telling people who dump on MS and Adobe about this situation that Apple is in the same boat, but it doesn't wake them up.

I hope they aren't killing Shake. Hopefully they are re-writing it. They certainly must be working hard on FCS though. At least they should be, considering how it has the video industry in such a stranglehold these days.

I think it will need a change to programming conventions. If standard code could be parallelized easily, people would have done it ages ago. I'm not sure an API will do it but there may be guidelines as to how to program for parallel processing. It won't work for all code but hopefully there will be some automated compiling that does a better job than auto-vectorization on top that deals with threading.

That's right. What's even worse is programming for hyperthreading. If that isn't done right, the program actually slows down. If Apple wants to include that in their specs, they've got a lot of work cut out for them.

[apeiros]

Originally Posted by melgross

A 64 bit kernel will require 64 bit drivers. There's no way around that at all. If it will somehow run on a 32 bit machine, then that machine, and version of the OS can use a 32 bit kernel. If they can somehow do that, then for those machines only, 32 bit drivers will suffice.

Of course there are ways around that. Just because nobody does it (maybe it's even already done) doesn't mean it's impossible.

Regards
apeiros

[Abster2core]

Originally Posted by Marvin

It seems fairly certain that it will likely be in March at the earliest though and this is stretching Q1 to the limit so we'll just have to see how developments go over the next couple of months and maybe get some info at MW.

The urgency is for the apps and drivers. I've only recently considered moving to Leopard because I don't want my apps to start breaking and introducing bugs that weren't there before.

My view is if it ain't broke don't upgrade unless it offers something major. Snow Leopard should offer something major but I want it to be in the hands of all developers soon so that they can make sure the apps work properly.

Otherwise, I might not upgrade for another year from now. If it's out in March then I might be able to upgrade earlier.

Are you saying that you haven't made up your mind and are still using Tiger or something earlier?

[Lemon Bon Bon.]

I keep saying that I don't see this before the ADC. This is much more work than some are assuming.

It's almost a total re-write of much of the OS, as well as the added functionality at the lower levels.

This is a shrewd point.

Lemon Bon Bon.

[jawporta]

Since there is no new features and it's pretty much a leopard bug fix, why rush it? The whole snow leopard thing is making leopard faster and smaller in file size. There should be nothing wrong with this release. So take your time Apple and make sure it's all 100%.

[Abster2core]

Originally Posted by jawporta

Since there is no new features and it's pretty much a leopard bug fix, why rush it? The whole snow leopard thing is making leopard faster and smaller in file size. There should be nothing wrong with this release. So take your time Apple and make sure it's all 100%.

Correct in part. But it is not a "…a leopard bug fix,…"

Since 2001, Mac OS X has delivered more than a thousand innovative new features. With Snow Leopard, the next major version of the world’s most advanced operating system, Mac OS X changes more than its spots, it changes focus. Taking a break from adding new features, Snow Leopard — scheduled to ship in about a year — builds on Leopard’s enormous innovations by delivering a new generation of core software technologies that will streamline Mac OS X, enhance its performance, and set new standards for quality. Snow Leopard dramatically reduces the footprint of Mac OS X, making it even more efficient for users, and giving them back valuable hard drive space for their music and photos http://www.apple.com/macosx/snowleopard/

And the only official press release from Apple says in part:
SAN FRANCISCO—June 9, 2008—Apple® today previewed Mac OS® X Snow Leopard, which builds on the incredible success of OS X Leopard and is the next major version of the world’s most advanced operating system. Rather than focusing primarily on new features, Snow Leopard will enhance the performance of OS X, set a new standard for quality and lay the foundation for future OS X innovation. Snow Leopard is optimized for multi-core processors, taps into the vast computing power of graphic processing units (GPUs), enables breakthrough amounts of RAM and features a new, modern media platform with QuickTime® X. Snow Leopard includes out-of-the-box support for Microsoft Exchange 2007 and is scheduled to ship in about a year. http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2008...owleopard.html

I would suggest that any report indicating a specific introductory time is conjecture. As Apple has published on two sites, it "is scheduled to ship in about a year" (dated June 9, 2008). The question now would be, "How long is about a year?" Some would say that it could lie anywhere between 6 months plus a day to 18 months less a day. In any event, it is somewhere within that period, it depends to what you round time off to, and it is relative.

[mklos]

I just hope they don't release it until its ready. Too many times Apple has rushed out an OS. Who cares if its released this time next year. Its not like Tiger or Leopard are terrible OS's or something. Now is the time to take their time and get it 99% right the first time and not have to rush around and release 10.6.1 as quickly as possible to fix bugs that should have been caught before it was released.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by mklos

I just hope they don't release it until its ready. Too many times Apple has rushed out an OS. Who cares if its released this time next year. Its not like Tiger or Leopard are terrible OS's or something. Now is the time to take their time and get it 99% right the first time and not have to rush around and release 10.6.1 as quickly as possible to fix bugs that should have been caught before it was released.

1) You always have the option to not buy it until it has matured a bit and reports are showing that it's quite stable.

2) Hopefully Apple learned from the iPhone 3G/iPhone v2.0/App Store/MobileMe fiasco.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer

OpenCL was written by Apple and introduced to the Group at Khronos to adopt to, not the other way around which you imply as, ``I have this idea and can you do the heavy lifting for us to then write our APIs and put into the OS, thanks so much.''

Apple wrote OpenCL. They did the heavy lifting as a multi-year project. They had Nvidia, ATi and Intel in scope when they wrote it. They then brought in those bodies when it made sense to then work out the rest to ratify it as quickly as possible.

If it weren't for Apple doing the heavy lifting it would have stuck in limbo for a few years before finalization. That is what made it amazing to Nvidia, ATi and Intel. They didn't have to do much to have their stuff work with it.

Get it?

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...9&postcount=53

Originally Posted by Javi Mahai

actually, OpenCL is mostly based on CUDA with some Apple people doing some nifty dynamic compilation on top.

CUDA has been ported to the CPU as well to NVIDIA GPUS (and ATIs are getting there). Basically they are going to be doing super-threading algorithms that can run on any streaming device, or on a normal device that is not as fast but does not break the programming model so it can scale across different cores in the system (from different vendors, but it is geared towards NVIDIA initially)

Although, I always get a kick about working in a project and getting corrected from an outside source :-) hint.. hint...

I don't know if this guy is blowing smoke or not but it is interesting that OpenCL seems to favor Nvidia GPU. I would have thought that equal support for AMD/ATI would have been developed concomittantly seing as how Apple's lineup always has a model with ATI graphics.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by apeiros

Of course there are ways around that. Just because nobody does it (maybe it's even already done) doesn't mean it's impossible.

Regards
apeiros

It's pretty much impossible to do properly. I suppose a kludge could be done, but that would cause too many problems of it's own, so no one does it.