Quanta to manufacture Apple netbooks in 2009 - report

[AppleInsider]

Apple is in talks with one of its Taiwanese system manufacturers to begin manufacturing netbooks sometime next year, according to a recent report out of the Far East.

An article published by the Taiwanese Government Information Office on Monday cites Quanta vice chairman and president C.C. Leung as saying his company expects to see considerable growth in the global netbook market during the 2009 calendar year thanks to a flurry of new contract orders.

U.S.-based HP and Sony of Japan are said to have signed new netbook manufacturing agreements with the original systems manufacture this quarter. The report adds that in addition to "orders from existing brand clients as Acer, Lenovo, Hewlett Packard and BenQ, Quanta is expected to add Sony [U.S.] and Apple as clients for the contract manufacture of netbook computers in 2009."

Quanta shipped a total of 9.7 million netbooks during the third quarter of 2008 to its various customers but is expecting sales of the budget notebooks to remain relatively flat for the fourth quarter, which ends shortly.

When asked recently about the prospect of an Apple netbook, chief executive Steve Jobs was quick to downplay the offerings as a "nascent category" in the portable computing market, saying the devices are off to a slow start. However, he noted that his company would be prepared to enter the market should it pick up.

"As best as we can tell, there's not a lot of them being sold," he told analysts during an October conference call. "But we'll wait and see how that nascent category evolves, and we have got some pretty interesting ideas if it does evolve."

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[teckstud]

Nothing like following the pack. We should have had these already.

[teckstud]

That's funny - isn't Apple TV a "nascent" product itself?

[emulator]

Originally Posted by teckstud

That's funny - isn't Apple TV a "nascent" product itself?

"there's not a lot of them being sold' for sure.

[MacTel]

Apple won't call it a netbook though. It will come out as the Macbook Mini.

Take off the screen and that's about what I'd like for the Mac Mini. A trackpad and bring your own display.

[Ireland]

This means nothing as far as I'm concerned. Sometimes you have to ignore all rumors and think for yourself. "What could Apple be thinking?" When I think that I see "tablet". That will be their netbook. That that they won't release a netbook too, a year or two later. All bets say tablet to me.

[aaarrrgggh]

Originally Posted by Ireland

This means nothing as far as I'm concerned. Sometimes you have to ignore all rumors and think for yourself. "What could Apple be thinking?" When I think that I see "tablet". That will be their netbook. That that they won't release a netbook too, a year or two later. All bets say tablet to me.

Having used both, I would never go back to a tablet or slate computer; the Netbooks win. Personally I use mine for some fairly intense Sketchup work, MS Office, Quickbooks, and Firefox. I can actually multi-task with it as well... and it supports an external monitor. I can lay down in bed or on the couch with the screen open to watch a movie or lazily browse the internet.

In contrast, using my iPhone in the same position, I have to constantly fight the rotating screen, my hand gets cramped holding it up, data entry is painful, and is not nearly as useful.

There are exactly three problems with the existing offerings:

• Windows
• Poor build quality/cheapness
• Terrible trackpads

All of these are issues that Apple can resolve with a very competitive product offering priced to maintain Apple's historical margins.

Going a tablet/slate route though you need to make significant hardware and software improvements to the user interface for it to be a compelling competitor to a netbook. Apple might try and define a new market, or compete more directly with the likes of PSP and DS, but it wouldn't be a full-functional computer.

[Walter Slocombe]

Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh

Having used both, I would never go back to a tablet or slate computer; the Netbooks win. Personally I use mine for some fairly intense Sketchup work, MS Office, Quickbooks, and Firefox. I can actually multi-task with it as well... and it supports an external monitor. I can lay down in bed or on the couch with the screen open to watch a movie or lazily browse the internet.

In contrast, using my iPhone in the same position, I have to constantly fight the rotating screen, my hand gets cramped holding it up, data entry is painful, and is not nearly as useful.

There are exactly three problems with the existing offerings:

• Windows
• Poor build quality/cheapness
• Terrible trackpads

All of these are issues that Apple can resolve with a very competitive product offering priced to maintain Apple's historical margins.

Going a tablet/slate route though you need to make significant hardware and software improvements to the user interface for it to be a compelling competitor to a netbook. Apple might try and define a new market, or compete more directly with the likes of PSP and DS, but it wouldn't be a full-functional computer.

You've nailed pretty much all the points I was going to make.

I would have bought one already but for (comes with windows) which would have ment running a hackintosh.

the ONE thing I could NOT live with, would be a crappy Keyboard, trackpad I can live with, but if I can't type on it, then what use is it?




-----
Tablets are doomed to failure.. Apple branded water FTW!

[probably]

It's amazing that people (myself included) seem to forget to take Steve's words as quite possibly meaningless, even if it's a thoughtful statement.

The-iPod-will-never-do-video seemed totally believable at the time as one of those 'oh-that's-SO-apple-stubbornness' bits.

[SpamSandwich]

Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh

Having used both, I would never go back to a tablet or slate computer; the Netbooks win. Personally I use mine for some fairly intense Sketchup work, MS Office, Quickbooks, and Firefox. I can actually multi-task with it as well... and it supports an external monitor. I can lay down in bed or on the couch with the screen open to watch a movie or lazily browse the internet.

In contrast, using my iPhone in the same position, I have to constantly fight the rotating screen, my hand gets cramped holding it up, data entry is painful, and is not nearly as useful.

There are exactly three problems with the existing offerings:

• Windows
• Poor build quality/cheapness
• Terrible trackpads

All of these are issues that Apple can resolve with a very competitive product offering priced to maintain Apple's historical margins.

Going a tablet/slate route though you need to make significant hardware and software improvements to the user interface for it to be a compelling competitor to a netbook. Apple might try and define a new market, or compete more directly with the likes of PSP and DS, but it wouldn't be a full-functional computer.

I'd love for Apple to simply offer a quick on/off button on-screen to disable screen rotation. Bugs the heck out of me sometimes.

[wizard69]

Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh

Having used both, I would never go back to a tablet or slate computer; the Netbooks win.

They win running windows but we aren't talking that here.

Personally I use mine for some fairly intense Sketchup work, MS Office, Quickbooks, and Firefox. I can actually multi-task with it as well... and it supports an external monitor.

Then you are really using the device as a small laptop not a Netbook. The small tablets that many of us want to see are communications devices and net access devices first. Few of use would be foolish enough to use such for extended sessions with desktop apps.

I can lay down in bed or on the couch with the screen open to watch a movie or lazily browse the internet.

In contrast, using my iPhone in the same position, I have to constantly fight the rotating screen, my hand gets cramped holding it up, data entry is painful, and is not nearly as useful.

Having done both above, with a number of laptops, I have to call BS on this point.

There are exactly three problems with the existing offerings:

• Windows
• Poor build quality/cheapness
• Terrible trackpads

Which for some of use make them less useful than an iPhone. Give use a bigger device based on Touch and the crap you describe above wouldn't have a chance. Of course that presuposes that we would be using the device for it's intended purposes.

All of these are issues that Apple can resolve with a very competitive product offering priced to maintain Apple's historical margins.

Actually I don't think Apple has a chance of improving something that is fundamentally wrong. Netbooks just don't deliver the value and the capabilities required to compete with a good tablet.

Going a tablet/slate route though you need to make significant hardware and software improvements to the user interface for it to be a compelling competitor to a netbook.

Tell that to Touch or iPhone users whom almost all use the devices for net access and apps from Apples App Store. The problem you have is that you want to compare your legacy apps to modern software focused on entirely different use cases. All a netbook is is a shrunken laptop with all the same limitations in use.

Apple might try and define a new market, or compete more directly with the likes of PSP and DS, but it wouldn't be a full-functional computer.

The above statement just makes you look uninformed. Todays iPod Touch is much more than that, in fact it is a computer. A computer more functional than at least half the computers I've ever owned. A few simple upgrades in the next release could expand that power considerably.


Dave

[Adjei]

Frankly I'm sick of all this netbook talk, what is so special about them besides being cheap?

[Neil Anderson]

Small and light.

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by Neil Anderson

Small and light.

These may be somewhat basic (and dumb) questions: How exactly does one hold one of these to work on it? Is it for the lap? Or to be held in one's hand? Or both? Laid flat on a desk? Have a little tail out the back to make it stand, so as to be viewed at a normal viewing angle? Given that it will be too big for one's pocket, how will it be carried? How will the screen be protected in transit? Will it accept an external keyboard or will it be completely touch-based?

To me, something like this looks prima facie to be an awkwardly-sized product that's neither here nor there.

[mark2005]

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

To me, something like this looks prima facie to be an awkwardly-sized product that's neither here nor there.

Agree that the use case seems convoluted.

Right now, in the mobility space, Apple has so far laid out a pocketable-one hand operation in the iPod Touch and iPhone, and an envelopable but full-screen operation (esp for browser) in the 13.3" MacBook Air (MBA).

The Big Question: what are the mobile somethings in-between, if anything, for Apple?

There are multiple dimensions to be considered for any product;
-cost bracket (assumes a quality threshold),
-mobility (includes both easy-to-carry; quick-to-use),
-connectivity (includes both always-on; capacity),
-usage/performance (includes screen size; processor/apps; keyboard type; hours of use between recharges).

Of course, Apple will rule out certain combinations because it would require unacceptable compromises across these dimensions (i.e., today's netbook).

I've thought about this for awhile and it seems like there really should be something more. But even after having used a MBP, MBA, and iPhone in many different personal and business travel contexts, I haven't yet found an answer that has enough distinctive use cases to stand out as a separate product. Sure the MBA could be a bit lighter and thinner and more functional - and of course that will happen over time. And the iPhone/Touch could add more functionality (faster CPU, better camera, etc) and more battery life - and of course that will happen over time. But is there something other than the MBA and iPhone that's still needed?

[Adjei]

Originally Posted by Adjei

Frankly I'm sick of all this netbook talk, what is so special about them besides being cheap?

There are other small and light laptops out there, the only thing a netbook has going for it is the price.

[Kolchak]

I have a Macbook mini already. Actually an MSI Wind running OS X. It can do 99% of what my genuine Macs can do. Only a couple of niggling problems with the audio jacks and webcam remain. It cost me $300 a few weeks ago after rebate (Leopard was free since I had family pack licenses left over) and the build quality is just fine. I've maxed out the RAM (only 2GB) and replaced the wireless card with a Dell card that OS X sees as a third party AirPort card and lets me use the AirPort controls in the menu bar. The upgrades cost me $15 and took 15 minutes of work with a screwdriver. It weighs less than 2.5 pounds and fits in any of my briefcases, messenger bags or other bags. Applications launch quickly and run snappily. Tell me again why I need to spend $800-1000 for Apple's version. So it can be thin and sexy and aluminum? I need a computer, not a status symbol.

[nofear1az]

Originally Posted by Kolchak

Tell me again why I need to spend $800-1000 for Apple's version. So it can be thin and sexy and aluminum? I need a computer, not a status symbol.

so why not use Windows if you're on the cheap!

I get your point and agree totally... shhhhhh, I have an Acer AspireOne netbook and I love it....although, I can't put OS-X on it like the MS Wind but i'm not gonna be too picky... I love the ultra portability of it and the fact it's so small I can take it anywhere without putting too much thought to it, almost like carrying a cell phone around but much more useful.

[MacRonin]

One thing about the negative product remarks Jobs makes…

They usually mean exactly the opposite!

I believe it is his way of letting us know exactly what is happening without actually commenting on future products…

And the reason he usually has that little shit-eating grin on his face when he steps on the stage at keynotes…

Sniff… I'll miss Jobs helmed keynotes…

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by MacTel

Apple won't call it a netbook though. It will come out as the Macbook Mini.

Nah- something more creative- like the iNetBook.

[Murphster]

Originally Posted by wizard69

They win running windows but we aren't talking that here.

Then you are really using the device as a small laptop not a Netbook. The small tablets that many of us want to see are communications devices and net access devices first. Few of use would be foolish enough to use such for extended sessions with desktop apps.

Having done both above, with a number of laptops, I have to call BS on this point.

Which for some of use make them less useful than an iPhone. Give use a bigger device based on Touch and the crap you describe above wouldn't have a chance. Of course that presuposes that we would be using the device for it's intended purposes.

Actually I don't think Apple has a chance of improving something that is fundamentally wrong. Netbooks just don't deliver the value and the capabilities required to compete with a good tablet.

Tell that to Touch or iPhone users whom almost all use the devices for net access and apps from Apples App Store. The problem you have is that you want to compare your legacy apps to modern software focused on entirely different use cases. All a netbook is is a shrunken laptop with all the same limitations in use.


The above statement just makes you look uninformed. Todays iPod Touch is much more than that, in fact it is a computer. A computer more functional than at least half the computers I've ever owned. A few simple upgrades in the next release could expand that power considerably.


Dave

Your whole post is utter nonsense!!

* You call BS on someone who says that can lie in bed with their netbook open? What? Co's you have tried it and can't that means everybody can't? What a weird thing to say.

* The OP is using the device as a small laptop and not a netbook!!! What? Do you know what a netbook is? it is a small laptop. That is the point, the whole point. Netbooks are light, more portable and small laptops. They are to be used as laptops. Don't let the name fool you, they are for more than surfing the net.

* The iPhone is not a small computer. Anyone who says it is is being foolish. You cannot run more than one application at the same time, you cannot edit documents and save the hard-drive, you cannot cut and paste, you cannot run OSX applications.

The iPhone is a phone (the clue is in its name), a smart phone maybe, but certainly not a computer.

[Murphster]

Originally Posted by Adjei

There are other small and light laptops out there, the only thing a netbook has going for it is the price.

No, that is not true. Of course the price is a significant part of the huge success of the netbook form factor there is more to it than that. These netbooks are brilliant, very small, very light, highly portable but with all the functionality of a full sized machine. i.e. they run a real OS and the same applications you use at work and at home.

They are of course less powerful that a $3000 MBP, but to be honest even a standard netbook is probably as powerful as the most powerful notebook in the world a few years ago.

Ever tried to use a notebook on a train? In economy on a flight? in a coffee shop?

Apple got it completely and utterly wrong with the Air, they thought that people wanted the slimmest notebook. No, people wanted the smallest notebooks. The huge success of netbooks this last few months should be enough to tell you that.

[aaarrrgggh]

Originally Posted by Adjei

Frankly I'm sick of all this netbook talk, what is so special about them besides being cheap?

Cheap is the least of my concerns. My main computer is a 17" MBP which I love most of the time. I'll replace it in a year or two when my current one stops doing everything I need it for. However, I fly a hell of a lot, and I commute to work on a bicycle.

Lugging around a 17" laptop is an exercise in frustration, even a svelt Mac. Seven pounds plus power adapter!

For business travelers, you will see an almost complete conversion to Netbooks over the next two years. I have a couple applications that I haven't loaded and don't really expect to (AutoCAD, Revit, Creative Suite), but it actually does a pretty good job with my engineering and financial spreadsheets. All of this in a package that is easy to schlep around in a confined space such as an airplane, and cheap enough that having an extra computer for the purpose isn't a big deal. When I go into the airport lounge now, I laugh at the people toting 17" and 19" Gatway laptops with them, despite having done the same with my MBP for years-- until last month anyway.

I fully understand the iPhone/iPod Touch AppStore ecosystem. It is a great model for a consumer device, and it could viably be extended to a broader market. At the same time, that model does not work well when you are either dealing with legacy or expensive software.

I personally can't imagine students shifting en-mass to netbooks for taking notes during lectures. The keyboards are functional (at least on my Aspire One), but not great and speed takes a hit. It only happens when portability trumps functionality. Remembering back to my days in college, I would need to lug around a few 4-5 pound text books for classes, so the delta between a Macbook and a Netbook really wouldn't be a huge incentive (although the battery might be).

[nikon133]

Originally Posted by MacTel

Apple won't call it a netbook though. It will come out as the Macbook Mini.

Take off the screen and that's about what I'd like for the Mac Mini. A trackpad and bring your own display.

That was sarcasm, right?

[nikon133]

Originally Posted by Ireland

This means nothing as far as I'm concerned. Sometimes you have to ignore all rumors and think for yourself. "What could Apple be thinking?" When I think that I see "tablet". That will be their netbook. That that they won't release a netbook too, a year or two later. All bets say tablet to me.

I'd say standard netbook with rotating touch screen, basically both tablet and notebook in one.

Much as I know, no one's done it before. There are some small, 12 or 13" notebook/tablets, but no netbook with such feature - so there's Apple chance to, kind of, innovate (at least to be first in that segment).

Since no one has netbook like that, Apple would be free to push a bit higher price because of added functionality. Also, such netbook would make great ebook reader, and since Amazon Kindle was one of the hot items this Christmas, obviously there's an extra market for ebook readers - just support it with great on-line purchase service (again, something Apple is not stranger to).

With Apple's taste in good design and functionality - say, some smart programmable buttons around the screen or even just an OS modification that would change screen layout when device is turned to tablet mode, adding on-screen keys for navigation, media, soft keyboard... - could let Apple have higher margin than other netbooks (and justify it) while keeping "we don't do cheap" image.

[charlituna]

Originally Posted by emulator

"there's not a lot of them being sold' for sure.

that might be why Steve isn't willing to jump into a unproven market.

think about it, they tried to lead the pack with something cool and it is more or less a no go.

now they have the iphone which is selling and to some point is a netbook (really what are folks going to do other than check email and a little surfing on something like that) and the macbook air which is picking up as solid state drive prices come down.

a tablet macbook or netbook is just a half way between those two items but might end up a waste. a fad. I mean would you really want a tablet mini macbook with that totally scratchable surface like the iphone and touch have. and what could you really do it on that you couldn't do perhaps better on a lower costing macbook air. have a dvd drive maybe. which would raise the weight and then you are lugging around DVDs. Jobs idea of having the DVD drive external and keeping your media digital to not be carrying around a bunch of CDs and DVDs is rather sound logic in my mind. more so than a 4-5 pound giant ipod touch or iphone that is little better than either device. and if they actually put a 3g data modem in it (ie a giant iphone) you know that ATT is going to rape folks with a data plan. double if you have a regular phone cause no way would they let you use the same rate for both. they would make you get a new line for your 'book' and pay another $30 if not more.

[charlituna]

i know that some of you love to play the game of "well they said X and look what happened two years later" but really. are you going to believe some company in the Far East or Apple about what Apple is look to do in the future.

And Steve didn't say there won't be a netbook, he said they are watching the market and considering options and ideas. And if something like that is feasible and would be profitable to pursue, they will.

Consider the iPhone. Apple is actually rather late in the smartphone game. and the music playing phone game. Why? Because they waited to see if such things were going to be fads or not. When they saw that it wasn't, they started looking into how they could make one that wouldn't be just a copy of everything else. When they got it to a point they couldn't improve the idea any more without some user feedback, they released the first device and started work on the second, based in part on what the market demanded. Folks wanted Apps and they didn't want folks hacking the phone to get them, so they come up with the Apps store and so on. and when an iphone3 comes out, it will be based in part on what did and didn't work with 1 and 2.

[Dave K.]

Everyone thinks Apple will produce a netbook that will be cheaper than the standard MacBook. What if it is more expensive? Remember, this is Apple we are taking about here...

The MacBook Air is already more expensive than the MacBook? Apple isn't interested in producing a notebook/desktop in the $500 range -- even though they could. What are the chance they are interested in producing a netbook in that range.

I could envision Apple creating a netbook with the height of a DVD case, standard Apple I/O, all enclosed in an Aluminum shell. Price: $1499

[Kolchak]

Originally Posted by nikon133

I'd say standard netbook with rotating touch screen, basically both tablet and notebook in one.

Much as I know, no one's done it before. There are some small, 12 or 13" notebook/tablets, but no netbook with such feature - so there's Apple chance to, kind of, innovate (at least to be first in that segment).

Since no one has netbook like that, Apple would be free to push a bit higher price because of added functionality. Also, such netbook would make great ebook reader, and since Amazon Kindle was one of the hot items this Christmas, obviously there's an extra market for ebook readers - just support it with great on-line purchase service (again, something Apple is not stranger to).

With Apple's taste in good design and functionality - say, some smart programmable buttons around the screen or even just an OS modification that would change screen layout when device is turned to tablet mode, adding on-screen keys for navigation, media, soft keyboard... - could let Apple have higher margin than other netbooks (and justify it) while keeping "we don't do cheap" image.

A convertible would make it worth the extra price for me. Although I don't think even Apple can make a durable swiveling hinge for a small, thin device.

Originally Posted by nofear1az

I have an Acer AspireOne netbook and I love it....although, I can't put OS-X on it like the MS Wind but i'm not gonna be too picky...

The Aspire One is closer to what naysayers traditionally consider netbooks. Something to surf the web and check email with and with no more storage than an iPhone. The Wind is a small laptop, plain and simple. Barely larger and heavier than the Aspire but with a slightly bigger screen, 2GB (maximum) of RAM and 120GB of HD space standard. It's not for nothing that many reviewers call it the best netbook out today. I chose the Wind because I wanted a ultraportable device that lets me do most of what my Macs can do at home, not a different OS that I'd have to learn just for a few functions. I even prefer using iTunes to using an iPod. It's so much easier to click a playlist then select a song than to do all that scrolling and pressing back, select, menu, etc. Also much easier to see lots of songs to choose from at a time and cover art at decent sizes. The only disadvantage is you can't really use it on the go like an iPod, but I prefer to be aware of my surroundings outside and only listen to music when I've settled down at home, the office or someplace else private.

I love the ultra portability of it and the fact it's so small I can take it anywhere without putting too much thought to it, almost like carrying a cell phone around but much more useful.

Exactly. I suspect people who belittle netbooks have never actually used one. They just looked at a picture and immediately decided, "That's useless." Then they say that an iPhone is a useful computer. It's a gadget and a gaming device. Even developers admit the vast majority of the stuff in the App Store is fluff that doesn't serve any useful purpose. They're like Dashboard widgets; how many "countdown to..." timer widgets are there? Developers, journalists and bloggers all joke about the umpteenth "flashlight" app for iPhones. I like being able to tweak a client's website in Dreamweaver CS4 on the spot or reading long e-books and PDFs, which I'd hate to do on the iPhone's tiny screen.

[wizard69]

Originally Posted by Murphster

Your whole post is utter nonsense!!

See the title above! In any event my comments are based on experience.

* You call BS on someone who says that can lie in bed with their netbook open? What? Co's you have tried it and can't that means everybody can't? What a weird thing to say.

Well obviously you can open a netbook anywhere you want even while sitting on the toilet. The issue is your ability to effectively use the machine in these places. Making effective use of these machines in bed is BS, not because of my imagination but because I've tried it.

* The OP is using the device as a small laptop and not a netbook!!! What?

Are you having trouble understanding that?

Do you know what a netbook is? it is a small laptop.

You can try to morph it into a small laptop, even build it as such but the original concept was for a network access appliance. It is only recently that the devices have been outfitted with full operating systems and applications stacks. The statment is accurate he is attempting to use the device as a small laptop not as a network access device.

That is the point, the whole point. Netbooks are light, more portable and small laptops. They are to be used as laptops. Don't let the name fool you, they are for more than surfing the net.

Then they are small laptops especially if running full desk top OSes. You can let marketing twist the concept around all you want but the fact remains that running the current desktop operating systems on these devices is problematic. At best they serve a limited subset of the population that finds the torture of the little screens and keyboards rewarding.

* The iPhone is not a small computer.

Sure it is! If you use one you will quickly realize that. In fact it can be argued to be the best compact computing platform on the market right now.

Anyone who says it is is being foolish.

I guess all those programmers writing app store applications are foolish. Especially the ones making fairly decent money. Honestly I'd like to hear how you came to that conclusion.

You cannot run more than one application at the same time, you cannot edit documents and save the hard-drive,

Obviously you don't know what you are talking about and never have looked at the SDK. Or for that matter looked at things like the contacts app, notepad or otherthings that let you save data.

As to running more than one app at a time, the iPhone does intact do that it is just that only one user program is blessed to do that right now. In any event your logic implies that all the DOS machines of the past weren't computers. That would be fairly stupid as everybody considered them to be computers.

It should be noted that when Apple first released iPhone with a limitation on user background apps I was extremely disappointed. After using the machine a bit I realize that while a certian limitation the platform doesn't have the CPU horse power to pull it off right now. It is one of those things that I hope will go away as soon as the hardware is able to handle it reliably.

you cannot cut and paste, you cannot run OSX applications.

So what does the above have to do with the fact that the iPhone is a computer? There are millions of computers out there that don't run Mac OS/X, they may be lesser machines but they are still computers.

The iPhone is a phone (the clue is in its name), a smart phone maybe, but certainly not a computer.

You can look at it that way but I don't buy it. If anything iPhone is a computer with a 3G modem attached. It is backwards to think of it as just a smart phone as the little computers often get more use as a computer than a phone.


Thanks
Dave


Posted from my iPhone!

[wizard69]

Originally Posted by Kolchak

A convertible would make it worth the extra price for me. Although I don't think even Apple can make a durable swiveling hinge for a small, thin device.

I'm note sure what the allure is in a convertible. All that does is make for a bulkier and less reliable machine. It is a compromise between a Tablet and a clam shell that can never reach for the advantages of either of those.

The Aspire One is closer to what naysayers traditionally consider netbooks. Something to surf the web and check email with and with no more storage than an iPhone.

At least I can agree with that.

The Wind is a small laptop, plain and simple. Barely larger and heavier than the Aspire but with a slightly bigger screen, 2GB (maximum) of RAM and 120GB of HD space standard. It's not for nothing that many reviewers call it the best netbook out today. I chose the Wind because I wanted a ultraportable device that lets me do most of what my Macs can do at home, not a different OS that I'd have to learn just for a few functions.

Oh common now admit that you purchased the Wind because of all those reviews.

I even prefer using iTunes to using an iPod. It's so much easier to click a playlist then select a song than to do all that scrolling and pressing back, select, menu, etc. Also much easier to see lots of songs to choose from at a time and cover art at decent sizes.

I suspect the above is why the Touch was a hot seller this Christmas. At least in part anyways, the larger screen simply offers a better user experience and more possibilities.

The only disadvantage is you can't really use it on the go like an iPod, but I prefer to be aware of my surroundings outside and only listen to music when I've settled down at home, the office or someplace else private.

Considering some close calls driving through a local park I'm really glad to hear somebody make the above statement. What is worst is that these disconnected people then have the gal to blame you for hitting the brakes and scarring them. This could easily become another rant on people moving about with cell phone or iPods plugged into their heads. For the record people on cell phones are the worst.

Exactly. I suspect people who belittle netbooks have never actually used one. They just looked at a picture and immediately decided, "That's useless."

There is a difference between being useless and practical. Netbooks simple aren't practical in many situations and are often far out classed by devices like the IPhone. For example I'm sitting back in the easy chair right now reading and responding to this thread on an iPhone with relative ease. That would be hard to do with a laptop of any size.

Then they say that an iPhone is a useful computer.

Personally I only say that because it is learned knowledge. Frankly I did not see myself adapting as quickly as I did to it's non phone features. It is good to surprise your self from time to time though.

It's a gadget and a gaming device. Even developers admit the vast majority of the stuff in the App Store is fluff that doesn't serve any useful purpose.

I see this as an unreasonable slant on the development processes on new platforms. When a developer has a new platform and a new API on his hands they need to start somewhere to come up to speed. Often these are games or simple apps that leverage past skills. It takes time to master a new system and it's user interface to move on to complex apps. To that end though some really nice apps have surfaced for iPhone and I'd expect more to come. Frankly this is no different than the Android platform or similarly complex device.

They're like Dashboard widgets; how many "countdown to..." timer widgets are there? Developers, journalists and bloggers all joke about the umpteenth "flashlight" app for iPhones.

Let's be honest that is old news. But again each of those apps served a purpose from the standpoint of the developer. The important thing in my mind is to have as few limitations on user apps as is possible.

I like being able to tweak a client's website in Dreamweaver CS4 on the spot or reading long e-books and PDFs, which I'd hate to do on the iPhone's tiny screen.

Which you shouldn't do. The whole point I'm trying to make is that the iPhone and hopefully the coming Apple tablets are a whole different approach to personal computing needs. In some cases it is the optimal solution. In any event you aren't even talking about the use of personal software but rather software focused on a small number of developers. Like it or not you are using a small laptop.

I'm actually surprised to hear that you are infact a developer as you seem to have a very closed mind as to what a platform could be. Remember Windows was built upon DOS over a number of years it developed into a new OS in it's own right. The version of iPhone OS, with SDK support, has been around less than a year yet offers up considerable capability. Sure it's feature set is limited and development is slower than many would like but the only real problem with Mobile OS has been the slowness to a stable platform. I can only guess but the lack of new features might have something to do with the debugging of what is already out there. Coming to grips with iPhone requires understanding that it is a new platform and a new way of doing STUFF.

Dave

[NOFEER]

iphone+ BT fold-up keyboard= apple netbook

that's all that's needed, small keyboards on the net books i have seen make it tough for taking notes or email--apple has a better way somewhere....
i vote iphone supports BT keyboard....isn't the margin from the iphone greater than a netbook?

[iDave]

Originally Posted by wizard69

Netbooks simple aren't practical in many situations and are often far out classed by devices like the IPhone. For example I'm sitting back in the easy chair right now reading and responding to this thread on an iPhone with relative ease. That would be hard to do with a laptop of any size.

What???!! You are truly deluding yourself. Millions of people use laptops every day for just that.

[Murphster]

Originally Posted by wizard69

Then they are small laptops especially if running full desk top OSes. You can let marketing twist the concept around all you want but the fact remains that running the current desktop operating systems on these devices is problematic. At best they serve a limited subset of the population that finds the torture of the little screens and keyboards rewarding.

I am sorry but I have got no idea what you are talking about here. I know people who are using netbooks now for their day to day business use and they are running XP or Vista perfectly fine. And running their usual applications no problem. In Fact they seem to run much better than my own XP Virtual Machine environment on my MBP.

A netbook is a full blown notebook computer but just smaller in size. There is nothing scaled back about it, it can perform all functions of a 15" notebook.

Originally Posted by wizard69

Sure it is! If you use one you will quickly realize that. In fact it can be argued to be the best compact computing platform on the market right now.

I guess all those programmers writing app store applications are foolish. Especially the ones making fairly decent money. Honestly I'd like to hear how you came to that conclusion.

Obviously you don't know what you are talking about and never have looked at the SDK. Or for that matter looked at things like the contacts app, notepad or otherthings that let you save data.

You said above that netbooks serve a small subset of the population who find the small screen and keys of a netbook rewarding and then go on to tell me that the iPhone is the best compact computing platform on the market. ?????? So the iPhone does not have an even smaller screen and even smaller keyboard?

Say I am away from the office for a day, there is a proposal that needs changing. Can I receive this proposal on my iPhone and review and edit it?

Can I have a browser window open and MS Word open at the same time and flick between the two?

Can I copy some text form a website and paste into a document or email?

Can I save an email attachment to the hard-drive, rename it and view it later. Can this attachment be a word doc, a pdf or an excel spreadhseet?

Can I run powerpoint presentations from my iPhone?

Can I plug in my USB hard-drive and back up all my important work data?



Can you say yes to any of the above?

If not you cannot seriously say that the iPhone is the best compact computing platform on the market. It is a phone for god sake, that's why it is called an iPhone and not an iCompact computer. A netbook is a full functioning notebook computer. There is just no comparison.

[iDave]

Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh

Having used both, I would never go back to a tablet or slate computer; the Netbooks win. Personally I use mine for some fairly intense Sketchup work, MS Office, Quickbooks, and Firefox. I can actually multi-task with it as well... and it supports an external monitor. I can lay down in bed or on the couch with the screen open to watch a movie or lazily browse the internet.

In contrast, using my iPhone in the same position, I have to constantly fight the rotating screen, my hand gets cramped holding it up, data entry is painful, and is not nearly as useful..

Thank you for saying that. When I first got my iPod touch, I thought it was great. Within a week, I realized it's quite uncomfortable continually holding it in my left hand while doing input with my right. With a netbook or any laptop computer, I can relax with it on the couch next to me, on my lap or on a desk top. It's much more hands free and the screen is far larger. I can actually look at real web pages; not just the mobile ones. I can type more than a half dozen words a minute unlike on my iPod where I make continual mistakes. After buying my netbook in November, my iPod touch has scarcely been used. I generally hate Windoze, but it's great compared to the touch interface.

[Murphster]

I too bought an iPod touch this year, I got a 32GB one. It is a great iPod, brilliant for listening to music and watching the occasional movie when I am traveling.

I have given up using it as a web browser or even an email device. I am currently writing this on my MBP, laying on my couch. Much more comfortable, much easier even on my 15"MBP - imagine how better it would be on a netbook?

Oh, I have just had an email. I can read and respond and keep this browser window open!

I have got a few other apps open too, I have even got an XP WMWare instance open and doing some work too.

My screen is not covered in fingerprints and sweat (I live in a very hot place), I am listening to music while I read and type.


I just fail to understand how an iPhone can honestly be called a better compact computing solution than a laptop computer. It just makes not logical sense whatsoever, you must be having a laugh!

[Kolchak]

Originally Posted by wizard69

At best they serve a limited subset of the population that finds the torture of the little screens and keyboards rewarding.

Posted from my iPhone!

Er, you don't see the ironic contradiction in those two statements from the same post? I think it's safe to assume that the 45 minute pause between your two replies this afternoon is mostly a function of how long it took for you to type in the second reply on a small keyboard.

Sure it is! If you use one you will quickly realize that. In fact it can be argued to be the best compact computing platform on the market right now.

There's part of your problem. You assume we've never touched the Apple gadgets and don't know we're talking about. I used to own both an iPhone then later an iPod touch (once I realized I didn't need the phone and wanted more storage). Somehow, I didn't "quickly realize that."

Originally Posted by wizard69

Oh common now admit that you purchased the Wind because of all those reviews.

Yes, I did. And I also chose it because it's the netbook that's easiest and best-suited to run OS X, thanks to it having a real hard drive rather than an 8GB flash drive like the Dell, Acer and HP netbooks and because there's a very active community that has produced complete OS X installation packages.

I suspect the above is why the Touch was a hot seller this Christmas. At least in part anyways, the larger screen simply offers a better user experience and more possibilities.

You don't think it might have been because of the Wifi and Internet capabilities that regular iPods don't have? And if the touch's larger screen offers a better experience and more possibilities, then what's wrong with going larger still?

I see this as an unreasonable slant on the development processes on new platforms. When a developer has a new platform and a new API on his hands they need to start somewhere to come up to speed. Often these are games or simple apps that leverage past skills. It takes time to master a new system and it's user interface to move on to complex apps. To that end though some really nice apps have surfaced for iPhone and I'd expect more to come. Frankly this is no different than the Android platform or similarly complex device.

There you show ignorance of the dev process. I'm not saying there aren't any good ones, but they're a very small percentage of what's in the App Store. And that's not about to change. More than a few professional developers and companies are very leery of developing for the iPhone. Why? Because Apple holds all the cards and they're arbitrary at times. You can spend months coding the next big app and Apple can simply deny you the permission to sell it on the App Store. You're left with an app you can't sell any other way, and because Apple will not vet an app unless it's ready to market, you can't give them a concept and get a thumbs up before wasting your time on it. They've used several reasons to crush apps, like you can't duplicate "core functionality" of the iPod touch/iPhone. Somebody who wrote a podcast direct download app lost to that, even though Apple has no such capability built-in. Maybe they were already working on it, but maybe they haven't but will now. It wouldn't be the first time Apple has incorporated outside ideas directly into their products and killed developers in the process (see Sherlock and Dashboard as a couple of examples). You also can't use unapproved APIs, although they allowed Amazon to do that. They also let Amazon quash an Amazon mini-app just because Amazon had their own in the works.

The important thing in my mind is to have as few limitations on user apps as is possible.

Then one must have full OS X. Because frankly the iPhone platform has too many limitations, including no windowing capability and most importantly, no cut & paste (which someone noted above but you ignored when you replied and quoted him). The last is extremely important even for basic operations. If somebody emails you a long URL, it's a pain to have to write it down then type it all in by hand on the on-screen keyboard. Or how about trying to add more than a basic link to a post in this forum? Don't look for cut & paste anytime soon, since Apple claims not many people have asked for it so they're not making it a priority. As others have noted, there's pretty much no way to even get files (Pages, PDF, Keynote, MS Office, media files, graphics that aren't shrunk by iPhoto, etc.) onto an iPhone or iPod touch without jailbreaking it, which I did with both my devices when I had them. You can sync data used by some applications, but that's the limit of your file transfer capabilities. How can anything be a "real computer" if you can't transfer real data on or off it? And where's the support for Apple's own video formats like MOV files? I don't think they're doing that anytime soon and you'll never get approval to sell a compatible player app using their proprietary software technology. Let's not forget limitations like "no Skype or other VoIP over 3G" and don't expect any peer to peer file sharing apps anytime in the foreseeable future. Don't forget no Silverlight, Flash, Firefox, Java or other interpretive apps as noted in a previous article.

Like it or not you are using a small laptop.

None of us ever said otherwise. In fact, we've said that over and over again. And that's precisely why we like it, because using anything less is too much of a sacrifice. Despite what you may think, running OS X on the Wind is not at all problematic nor is it a painful experience. I have 99% of the functionality of a Macbook in a much more compact package and at almost half the weight.

[Ireland]

Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh

Having used both, I would never go back to a tablet or slate computer; the Netbooks win.

You have never used a Mac touch. Is all.

[Kesh]

Originally Posted by Ireland

You have never used a Mac touch. Is all.

And what, pray tell, is a "Mac touch"?

[iDave]

Originally Posted by Kesh

And what, pray tell, is a "Mac touch"?

It's a mythical Mac with fingerprints all over its screen.