Sources: 17-inch MacBook Pro, NVIDIA Mac mini due shortly

[AppleInsider]

Apple as early as Tuesday will introduce a 17-inch MacBook Pro with a fixed internal battery and a new version of the Mac mini, both of which will feature chipsets from NVIDIA, AppleInsider has been able to independently confirm.

People familiar with the matter say both products are due to begin shipping this month but stopped short corroborating a Macworld introduction. That said, this week's trade show would seem the most likely forum for Apple to announce the new offerings.

In what's sure to be a controversial move on the part of the Mac maker, those familiar with the new unibody 17-inch MacBook Pro confirm that it will not share the same panel-covered battery layout as its 13- and 15-inch cousins. Instead, the notebook's battery will be fixed in place and not easily removable by users, similar to the MacBook Air's.

Additionally, AppleInsider can also confirm that a similarly-timed makeover to the Mac mini will see the diminutive desktop adopt chipsets from NVIDIA's MCP79 platform, as was previously implied by discoveries within the resource files of a Mac OS X build train that shipped on the latest MacBooks and MacBook Pros.

In addition to sporting both a Mini DisplayPort and a Mini DVI connector, it's now also rumored that the new Mac mini will see the addition of a FireWire 800 port and a fifth USB port, with the legacy FireWire 400 port going away. The Mini DVI connector will allow the mini to continue to cater to users who already own a display, while the Mini DisplayPort will offer support for customers of Apple's latest LED-backlit Cinema Display.

AppleInsider reported in October that the 17-inch unibody MacBook Pro was delayed by several months as Apple focused on working out some design kinks.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[bclapper]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

In addition to sporting both a Mini DisplayPort and a Mini DVI connector, it's now also rumored that the new Mac mini will see the addition of a FireWire 800 port

That'll sure please the unibody MacBook owners

[noriyori]

Originally Posted by bclapper

That'll sure please the unibody MacBook owners

Why's that?

[nace33]

Just put a DVR in the mac mini and all the frustration already.

[bclapper]

Originally Posted by noriyori

Why's that?

No Firewire options unless you go for a MacBook Pro

[elliots11]

I'd say it doesn't make sense for the 15" mbp to have a removable battery, but not the 17". It probably has something to do with structural rigidity for the larger macbook, but maybe there's an additional benefit.

[Marvin]

If the Mini has 2.2GHz + CPUs, it's going to be a great update.

2.2GHz
128GB SSD
4GB Ram
Nvidia graphics faster than the X1600

That is an ideal home computer for people who just need that bit extra performance.

The lower CPU doesn't matter much because with OpenCL, there's 16 cores in the graphics chip to play with.

I hope they make it easier to open too though. I want to upgrade my own hard drive and Ram.

The addition of firewire 800 is icing on the cake. It's a shame that it didn't go on the Macbook because it'll be Apple's only machine without firewire and probably one of the most popular.

It couldn't fit though and the cost is already high. I still maintain they should have dropped ethernet for firewire and have people use a USB -> ethernet adaptor but no point complaining now because the choice was made and you just have to live with it.

I'm actually genuinely interested in an Apple event for the first time in years. I'm just sad that I have to listen to Phil Schiller because I think he's one of the worst presenters at Apple. Not as bad as Bertrand Serlet and not as boring as Tim Cook but not that much fun to listen to.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by nace33

Just put a DVR in the mac mini and all the frustration already.

By an Elgato USB DVR receiver and you're set.

[noirdesir]

The Mini DVI connector will allow the mini to continue to cater to users who already own a display.

Except that no display with a Mini DVI connector exists (but at least one with a Mini Displayport). Sure, Mini DVI to DVI adaptors are cheaper and actually available (compared to Mini DP to DVI adaptors). But why apart from a few saved square millimetres one would choose a Mini-DVI over a DVI port is beyond me (on a 13" laptop on argue about this but not on a desktop not even a compact one like the Mac mini, make it 1 millimetre higher and wider, nobody will notice and include a standard DVI port).

[duzledwarf]

Originally Posted by Marvin

If the Mini has 2.2GHz + CPUs, it's going to be a great update.

2.2GHz
128GB SSD
4GB Ram
Nvidia graphics faster than the X1600

That is an ideal home computer for people who just need that bit extra performance.

The lower CPU doesn't matter much because with OpenCL, there's 16 cores in the graphics chip to play with.

I hope they make it easier to open too though. I want to upgrade my own hard drive and Ram.

The addition of firewire 800 is icing on the cake. It's a shame that it didn't go on the Macbook because it'll be Apple's only machine without firewire and probably one of the most popular.

It couldn't fit though and the cost is already high. I still maintain they should have dropped ethernet for firewire and have people use a USB -> ethernet adaptor but no point complaining now because the choice was made and you just have to live with it.

I'm actually genuinely interested in an Apple event for the first time in years. I'm just sad that I have to listen to Phil Schiller because I think he's one of the worst presenters at Apple. Not as bad as Bertrand Serlet and not as boring as Tim Cook but not that much fun to listen to.

Hey, I like Phil Schiller lol.

[bdkennedy1]

What doesn't make sense is why Apple continues to use aging Firewire ports instead of the much faster eSATA ports.

[nace33]

Originally Posted by solipsism

By an Elgato USB DVR receiver and you're set.

Got one, it works okay, but having to transcode everything into iTunes to be able to watch on my AppleTvs spread through the house is a pain. I am sure some people like it, but it's just not for me.

[Buck]

Well, the real killer will be if they announce a huge price drop on Mac Mini. Like bring them back to that $500 margin. Lately it's been nothing but price increases among the whole Mac line...

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by nace33

Got one, it works okay, but having to transcode everything into iTunes to be able to watch on my AppleTvs spread through the house is a pain. I am sure some people like it, but it's just not for me.

Elgato won't record in H.264?

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by bdkennedy1

What doesn't make sense is why Apple continues to use aging Firewire ports instead of the much faster eSATA ports.

1) FireWire is more popular that eSATA.
2) eSATA doesn't supply power.
3) Other benefits to FW that have been discussed ad nauseam when the new MB was released.

[bclapper]

Originally Posted by bdkennedy1

What doesn't make sense is why Apple continues to use aging Firewire ports instead of the much faster eSATA ports.

Oh noes, best take that one over to the No Firewire! thread
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...=92061&page=40

[wizard69]

Originally Posted by Marvin

If the Mini has 2.2GHz + CPUs, it's going to be a great update.

2.2GHz
128GB SSD
4GB Ram
Nvidia graphics faster than the X1600

The mini never used that graphics chip so I'm not sure what the point is. The only good thing is that the 9400M is a lot faster than the Minis current GPU.

That is an ideal home computer for people who just need that bit extra performance.

If the machine is only dual core it won't be good enough in my mind. At least not considering the prices Apple products sell at.

The lower CPU doesn't matter much because with OpenCL, there's 16 cores in the graphics chip to play with.

This is the part I disagree with the most and prompted this response. OpenCL will only be of an advantage on machines written to take advantage of it and then only if those resources are free. It does take much to tie up those 16 GPU cores for example.

This means one can not expect any existing software to leverage OpenCL unless it does so through upgraded Apple libraries. Even in the future a lot of software will never bother with OpenCL, either because it is not worth while or bevause the GPU is not the place to do the computation.

The need for good CPU performance doesn't go away with OpenCL it really depends on the problem domain and it's suitability to GPU acceleration.

I hope they make it easier to open too though. I want to upgrade my own hard drive and Ram.

Actually I agree with this one. I do hope this gets noted at Apple but to be honest I think the do the cases the way they do on purpose. It probably makes for a more reliable machine with far less warranty work than others.

The addition of firewire 800 is icing on the cake. It's a shame that it didn't go on the Macbook because it'll be Apple's only machine without firewire and probably one of the most popular.

If FireWire 800 is there I will take it as a very good sign.
As to the MacBook that is an interesting situation but I don't think they had as much choice with that machine. I still think UniBody costs them a relative fortune and deleting FireWire was simple cost control.

It couldn't fit though and the cost is already high. I still maintain they should have dropped ethernet for firewire and have people use a USB -> ethernet adaptor but no point complaining now because the choice was made and you just have to live with it.

As to Ethernet that would have been an even bigger mistake. The problem being the huge number of people that use wired only networks.

In any event this idea that there is nothing you can do about it is defeatist and just plain wrong. You can voice your opinion at Apple and not buy the MacBook. Contrary to popular opinion Apple does listen.

I'm actually genuinely interested in an Apple event for the first time in years. I'm just sad that I have to listen to Phil Schiller because I think he's one of the worst presenters at Apple. Not as bad as Bertrand Serlet and not as boring as Tim Cook but not that much fun to listen to.

Well this is an issue as Steve had his way. Hopefully he had a hand in one or more of the devices to debut. The hope is that would mean more emotional involvement and this exciting delivery.

On the otherhand I have to give the guy a little applause as it isn't easy. Of all the stuff I had to do in college communications class was the worst. For some it is natural but for many of us it is the worst experience of college life. They say practice makes perfect so maybe Phol has improved.

Dave

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by solipsism

Elgato won't record in H.264?

On digital transmissions, the Elgato Hybrid does bitstream recording, which is up to 20Mbps, and done in MPEG-2. The software can convert to H.264 afterwards, but it's a very slow conversion. I don't know about their other products. I have an old Elgato Firewire box that saves directly to some version of MPEG-4, but it sounds like maybe it won't work with future minis.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

On digital transmissions, the Elgato Hybrid does bitstream recording, which is up to 20Mbps, and done in MPEG-2. The software can convert to H.264 afterwards, but it's a very slow conversion. I don't know about their other products. I have an old Elgato Firewire box that saves directly to some version of MPEG-4, but it sounds like maybe it won't work with future minis.

Starting with MPEG-2 and then having you convert from only lossy codec to another! That seems like a very bad choice, especially for a Mac-focused company.

[Virgil-TB2]

Originally Posted by bclapper

That'll sure please the unibody MacBook owners

• If you are not a unibody MacBook owner but are nevertheless bitching about the lack of FireWire ports then you are offering what's known as a "baseless critique."
• If you are unibody MacBook owner but still need of FireWire ports, then it was pretty much a foolish purchase.

At the end of the day, if you are a unibody MacBook owner but are not satisfied with it, you are in a tiny minority of MacBook owners.

[Wiggin]

Originally Posted by bclapper

That'll sure please the unibody MacBook owners

If they made the decision to purchase it knowing there was no Firewire, why would this upset them? The MB obviously met their needs well enough that they didn't get a MBP. Besides, if they wanted a desktop, they could have bought the current mini instead of the MB.

Originally Posted by nace33

Just put a DVR in the mac mini and all the frustration already.

And just what tuner would they use? A very small percentage of US households get TV over the air. And trying to integrate a recording device with your cable or satellite provider is painful at best (just ask TiVo how that's going for them). This is much better left as an add-on component, not something built in. That way it can be easily upgraded as tuning standards change (ie, CableCard, Tru2Way, or whatever they call it these days).

Originally Posted by Marvin

If the Mini has 2.2GHz + CPUs, it's going to be a great update.

2.2GHz
128GB SSD
4GB Ram
Nvidia graphics faster than the X1600

That is an ideal home computer for people who just need that bit extra performance.

...

Hm, that 128 GB SSD just doubled the price of the mini...brilliant!

Originally Posted by noirdesir

Except that no display with a Mini DVI connector exists (but at least one with a Mini Displayport). Sure, Mini DVI to DVI adaptors are cheaper and actually available (compared to Mini DP to DVI adaptors). But why apart from a few saved square millimetres one would choose a Mini-DVI over a DVI port is beyond me (on a 13" laptop on argue about this but not on a desktop not even a compact one like the Mac mini, make it 1 millimetre higher and wider, nobody will notice and include a standard DVI port).

An extra millimeter? Have you ever compared the two? A standard DVI connector is roughly 2-3x wider than mini-DVI! Apple can probably get both the mDP and the mini-DVI connector in less space than the current full-size DVI on the mini.

Originally Posted by bdkennedy1

What doesn't make sense is why Apple continues to use aging Firewire ports instead of the much faster eSATA ports.

Because eSATA is a one-trick pony and is even less common than the more versatile Firewire on hard drives. Are there even any eSATA drives that don't also have Firewire?

Originally Posted by Buck

Well, the real killer will be if they announce a huge price drop on Mac Mini. Like bring them back to that $500 margin. Lately it's been nothing but price increases among the whole Mac line...

Getting back to the original $499 price tag for the base model would sweet!!

[Frank777]

The battery and mini-DVI decisions are baffling. Why not two removable batteries in a laptop that size? If you have to use an adapter to your display anyway, why not just use the mini-DisplayPort to DVI?

The Firewire 800 decision is very good news. Apple has restored my faith in them.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2

At the end of the day, if you are a unibody MacBook owner but are not satisfied with it, you are in a tiny minority of MacBook owners.

Except for the 4GB issue with the Nvidia GPUs that was not fixed with the Dec 10th firmware update, I'm quite happy with my MB. I know that jumping into a system with an untested Nvidia chip was a bad mistake, but I did it anyway, so I can only blame myself for make the purchase.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by solipsism

Starting with MPEG-2 and then having you convert from only lossy codec to another! That seems like a very bad choice, especially for a Mac-focused company.

But there's no choice if you record over the air TV, at least ATSC, I don't know about the other digital formats in other countries. In ATSC, it is transmitted as MPEG-2. It doesn't matter what computer platform is used, that's your source material. By default, it is saved as that to the hard drive, bit-for-bit how it was received. The software catalogs and plays those files natively too.

If you want to play the videos in iTunes or iDevices, then that requires converting codecs.

[noriyori]

Originally Posted by bclapper

No Firewire options unless you go for a MacBook Pro

Well yeah, but you can use an adapter: http://www.sonnettech.com/product/fw_adapter.html

I remember when apple included adapters for things like this. But I guess when you can engineer a computer with ports that force 80% or so of your customers to buy a $30 adapter it's a bit better for your bottom line.

[Zandros]

Originally Posted by solipsism

Starting with MPEG-2 and then having you convert from only lossy codec to another! That seems like a very bad choice, especially for a Mac-focused company.

If the DVB stream is in Mpeg-2, what choice does the Elgato device have? Conversion to Mpeg-4 AVC reduces the filesize dramatically (about half) with visual transparency to the source, at least if you use a decent implementation, unlike QuickTime.

[wilco]

Originally Posted by noriyori

Well yeah, but you can use an adapter: http://www.sonnettech.com/product/fw_adapter.html

Well, yeah, but an adapter doesn't create a port where one doesn't exist.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by Zandros

If the DVB stream is in Mpeg-2, what choice does the Elgato device have?

I wasn't aware it was sent as MPEG-2 until JeffDM mentioned it in post 24.

[MacTel]

The one feature everyone will be looking at for the new Mac Mini (along with the Nvidia, Macbook-like enclosure, mini-port, option for up to 4GB RAM, spiffy new processors, and the ability to opt out of optical for and extra hard disk) is price. Lower both models by $100 ($499 and $699 respectivily) and you then you'll have a valuable product. Current models are way over priced and they were when they were first introduced.

The only Apple systems worth their weight are the Macbook and iMac. They rest are quite expensive compared to their PC counterparts.

[Zandros]

Originally Posted by solipsism

I wasn't aware it was sent as MPEG-2 until JeffDM mentioned it in post 24.

Some broadcasters use Mpeg-4 AVC instead, but somehow I think the compatibility with iDevices won't be any better.

[Marvin]

Originally Posted by wizard69

The mini never used that graphics chip so I'm not sure what the point is. The only good thing is that the 9400M is a lot faster than the Minis current GPU.

The original Intel iMac did and it was disappointing to see Apple keep the Mini down and put better stuff in the iMac when the original G4 Mini had a dedicated card.

Originally Posted by wizard69

This is the part I disagree with the most and prompted this response. OpenCL will only be of an advantage on machines written to take advantage of it and then only if those resources are free. It does take much to tie up those 16 GPU cores for example.

The main thing would be for tasks that require special coding like image encoding and rendering. These are usually specially programmed for the best performance. Most other programs should work ok without much improvement to the hardware and OpenCL will help make up for special cases where the slower CPU holds it back.

It might not be much but I'm fairly optimistic about what will be achieved after seeing what CUDA is capable of. Even an extra 100% speedup in special cases means that it makes up for lack of a quad CPU. Naturally, a quad CPU + OpenCL would be even better but price/performance ratio should hopefully be quite good.

They need to do something as they look really terrible vs PCs now. I saw this deal quite recently:



Stylish Quad core 2.4GHz mid-tower, 2GB Ram, 320GB HDD, Nvidia 7050, DVDRW with 19" display, keyboard and mouse £529.

For those who think mid-range towers aren't popular, notice the 'Out Of Stock' sticker. That is only £140 more than Apple's lowest end Mini, which is nowhere near that level of computer. The low end 20" iMac is £250 more and still only dual core. These hardware updates are so long overdue.

Originally Posted by wizard69

I do hope this gets noted at Apple but to be honest I think the do the cases the way they do on purpose. It probably makes for a more reliable machine with far less warranty work than others.

Possibly but they've made their laptops very easily upgradeable now and if they are aiming for server business, they would do well to make the drives easy to replace.

Originally Posted by wizard69

In any event this idea that there is nothing you can do about it is defeatist and just plain wrong. You can voice your opinion at Apple and not buy the MacBook. Contrary to popular opinion Apple does listen.

Sure but you can't have them recall the models that are here now. These models will be here until the next revision by which time, USB 3 may have been introduced.

Originally Posted by wizard69

Of all the stuff I had to do in college communications class was the worst. For some it is natural but for many of us it is the worst experience of college life. They say practice makes perfect so maybe Phol has improved.

There are people at Apple who can handle the stage very well though - Phil messes around too much and I worry about him doing a Ballmer-like cockup (developers, developers, developers etc).

He's also a marketing guy. When I see a keynote, I don't want to feel like I'm in a car sales shop being persuaded to buy something based on how 'cool' it is, nor do I want to see Photo-Booth effects. I want meaningful information about the products.

[efithian@mac.com]

I have an Elgato EyeTV 500 that runs on FW only. I am also interested in a FireDTV S2 satellite receiver to receive free to air broadcasts, such as sports feeds. This is only available with FW, and is the only Mac-based satellite receiver, other than PCI solutions. It works with EyeTV.

http://www.digital-everywhere.com/en...sid=1190324464

I may need to use my old Mini Core Duo with the new one to cover all of the video processing that is needed.

EyeTV records in Mpeg-2 format which is the original format of ATSC broadcasts and uses 720p and 1080i formatting as well as AC-3. My old Mini is not capable of doing 1080p from the 1080i source material, since the graphics is too slow.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by Marvin

They need to do something as they look really terrible vs PCs now. I saw this deal quite recently:

<image>

Stylish Quad core 2.4GHz mid-tower, 2GB Ram, 320GB HDD, Nvidia 7050, DVDRW with 19" display, keyboard and mouse £529.

For those who think mid-range towers aren't popular, notice the 'Out Of Stock' sticker. That is only £140 more than Apple's lowest end Mini, which is nowhere near that level of computer. The low end 20" iMac is £250 more and still only dual core. These hardware updates are so long overdue.

The iMac hasn't been updated since April 2008 and the Mac Mini not since August 1984, so they are both definitely due for an update; however, I don't think the comparison you make is very direct. Both the Mini and iMac use notebook-grade parts to reduce size and heat. This increases cost while reducing performance. That Packard Bell's rudimentary specs do look better on spec sheets, but that is common of most PCs compared to Macs. Only at the higher end or with a very direct comparison of machines in the same class do we see that Apple is slightly cheaper, and I think that may only hold true for the US. We also don't know how many of those Packard Bell machines were shipped to that store.

[bclapper]

Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2

[LIST][*]If you are not a unibody MacBook owner but are nevertheless bitching about the lack of FireWire ports then you are offering what's known as a "baseless critique." [*]If you are unibody MacBook owner but still need of FireWire ports, then it was pretty much a foolish purchase.

Actually, neither are the case.

I was merely anticipating the MacBook owners (potential and actual) not being happy that the entry level product could get FireWire whilst their shiny new laptop no longer has it.

I'm not in the market for a MB and if I were, lack of FireWire wouldn't really affect me

Anyway, back to the mini

[fellaintga]

[QUOTE=Marvin;1357346]The original Intel iMac did and it was disappointing to see Apple keep the Mini down and put better stuff in the iMac when the original G4 Mini had a dedicated card.



The main thing would be for tasks that require special coding like image encoding and rendering. These are usually specially programmed for the best performance. Most other programs should work ok without much improvement to the hardware and OpenCL will help make up for special cases where the slower CPU holds it back.

It might not be much but I'm fairly optimistic about what will be achieved after seeing what CUDA is capable of. Even an extra 100% speedup in special cases means that it makes up for lack of a quad CPU. Naturally, a quad CPU + OpenCL would be even better but price/performance ratio should hopefully be quite good.

They need to do something as they look really terrible vs PCs now. I saw this deal quite recently:



Stylish Quad core 2.4GHz mid-tower, 2GB Ram, 320GB HDD, Nvidia 7050, DVDRW with 19" display, keyboard and mouse £529.

For those who think mid-range towers aren't popular, notice the 'Out Of Stock' sticker. That is only £140 more than Apple's lowest end Mini, which is nowhere near that level of computer. The low end 20" iMac is £250 more and still only dual core. These hardware updates are so long overdue.



What have you been smoking that thing has been put together with leftovers. The graphics is complete crap and good luck upgrading it grab a new power supply while you are there. Its yesterdays technology CPU. Not to mention how loud it will be after 6 months as I have experienced as it starts groaning.

[Wiggin]

Originally Posted by MacTel

The one feature everyone will be looking at for the new Mac Mini (along with the Nvidia, Macbook-like enclosure, mini-port, option for up to 4GB RAM, spiffy new processors, and the ability to opt out of optical for and extra hard disk) is price. Lower both models by $100 ($499 and $699 respectivily) and you then you'll have a valuable product. Current models are way over priced and they were when they were first introduced.

The only Apple systems worth their weight are the Macbook and iMac. They rest are quite expensive compared to their PC counterparts.

Macbook-like enclosure? Surely you don't mean something milled out of a solid block of aluminum, do you? That would be ridiculously expensive for a computer in the price range of the mini and even more impractical given the depth of the milling you'd need to do. Besides, the mini doesn't need the structural stiffness the MB's construction provides because you aren't picking it up and carrying it around all the time.

I also don't think "everyone" is looking for the option to swap the optical drive with a 2nd hard drive. Only those of us with nothing better to do on a Sunday than troll around on these message boards! If Apple at least makes the optical drive an SATA drive and doesn't make it too much of a PIA to swap out, that would likely be sufficient for most of us.

[TEBnewyork]

If they get rid of the firewire 400 port that would make it impossible to run a cinema display off a mini? My 30" uses the DVI, USB and Firewire port.

I was hoping the mini upgrade would be good enough to run Lightroom and Photoshop and allow me to keep my Macbook pro as a separate machine.

Am I missing something?

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by TEBnewyork

If they get rid of the firewire 400 port that would make it impossible to run a cinema display off a mini? My 30" uses the DVI, USB and Firewire port.

Not at all. A siple FW800-to-FW400 adapter from MonoPrice solves the FW issue, and the really expensive mDP-to-DVI adpater from Apple solves the video out issue, unless Apple does includes DVI and mDP on the new Mini.

[ascii]

Why would it have both kinds of port - it doesn't make sense. I don't believe this part of the rumor. Maybe it will have an included DVI adaptor in the box and this fact was distorted in the rumor mill and became two ports.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by ascii

Maybe it will have an included DVI adaptor in the box...

Perhaps, it would be only the Sl-DVI adapter. The mDP-to-SLDVI is $29 and the mDP-to-DLDVI is $99. But I think Apple's current position not to include adapters and their move to DP monitors means that the adapters will be an additional cost.