A closer look at Apple's advanced notebook battery tech

[AppleInsider]

The new 17" MacBook Pro claims an industry leading 8 hours of battery life, thanks to a series of innovations Apple highlighted in the new notebook's introduction. Even so, many of the advancements are not actually new, but rather the product of Apple's incremental engineering efforts to increase its notebooks' usability and desirability by thinking differently.

The new high end notebook uses a 95 watt-hour Lithium-Polymer battery, which the company hailed as a physically compact breakthrough over the batteries used in competing laptops. It's true that many PC laptops continue to use Lithium-Ion batteries, which package cylindrical cells inside a case, a practice that wastes a lot of internal space around the cells with dead air. Some of the cheaper PC laptops even still use relatively ancient Nickel Metal Hydride battery technology, which is even less space efficient.

However, Apple has been using Lithium-Polymer battery technology for years, both in iPods and in its notebook line. Rather than packaging cylindrical cells inside a battery module, Li-Poly batteries use sheets of polymer plastic that can be shaped as needed, resulting in a more compact and dense battery unit. In the images below, from Apple's video on battery technology shown in the Macworld keynote, Li-Poly sheets are spooled into bundles (below top) and then pressed into a thin unit (below middle graphics). The result is a thin package (below bottom).









Apple uses Li-Poly batteries in the MacBook Air, and they're also used in iPods and iPhone models to deliver a slim profile. One notable difference in the 17" MacBook Pro is that while thinness is a top consideration, physical size isn't. That allowed Apple to install a relatively huge battery, affording the laptop a very long lifespan relative to industry norms.

The replacement battery rebels

Another aspect that allowed Apple to use a larger than typical battery is the company's fearless ability to buck convention. In this case, the prevailing consensus that a full size notebook must have a replaceable battery so that it can be swapped out with a spare. The company's track record for using non-replacable batteries in its iPod and iPhone models has long been ridiculed by pundits who have insisted that the company made that engineering decision primarily to force users to pay hefty fees to replace the batteries once they reached the end of their useful lifespan.

The real reason of course was to make a device that was easy to build and lacked a battery cover and the latches and connectors required to support user-swappable battery modules. Apple traded those features for the space to install a larger battery, giving its devices longer battery life in a more compact profile. The market solved the battery replacement cost itself, with companies offering third party, do-it-yourself kits for battery replacement in the price range of $10 to $20.

Last year, Apple took an even bolder step in releasing the thin MacBook Air without a replaceable battery module. That unleashed a new wave of bitter complaint from pundits, but resulted in a very thin enclosure that prompted healthy sales of the thin new notebook. While the company's mid-range 13" and 15" notebooks were sold with replaceable battery units, the new high end 17" model does away with all the covers, latches, and battery module packaging to make room for a larger battery pack that can't be swapped out without a screwdriver.

The result will likely be more complaint from the defenders of the status quo, but also a real breakthrough in usability. The 40% larger battery used in the 17" MacBook Pro gives it up to 8 hours of life, making it far more practically useful than a conventional 5 hour replaceable battery that requires also carrying a separate spare battery, and probably also an external charger.

3X longer life

Enhancing the battery's lifespan is an improved recharging system Apple calls Adaptive Charging, which more precisely monitors the charge level of the battery's individual cells, and delivers the optimal current required to recharge them. The company says this helps prolong the lifespan of the battery from the typical span of 300 charging cycles to up to 1000. That also means fewer battery packs will end up in landfills, putting a greener shine on the new notebook's environmental credentials.

With notebooks now accounting for more than half of the computers Apple sells, battery technology is a key area of research, one that the company is addressing with advanced research into battery chemistry and packaging design. This enables the company to produce differentiated products that stand out against the sea of commodity PC notebooks that are fighting primarily only to be cheaper, resulting in a need to use older technology that doesn't demand any investment in innovative research.

Apple has been routinely criticized for not scrambling to jump on the bandwagon of $400 netbook mini-laptops, but while that market of razor thin profit margins receives a lot of press hype, sustainable profitability lies with higher-end notebook models, a market Apple is increasingly dominating. Just as it did a decade ago, Apple intends to innovate its way out of the current recession, setting itself up for a strong position once the global economy recovers. Until then, sales of Apple notebooks appear to be stronger than ever, thanks to the company's relentless efforts to improve and differentiate its MacBooks from commodity PC alternatives.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[aaarrrgggh]

As a stockholder, I sure hope Apple can find a compromise between being "cheap" and "high end" for the next few years. Based on the keynote, they sold 2.3MM macs this past quarter, which was a little lower than I hoped, but seemingly in-line with estimates.

It will be hard to maintain sales and profits if the entire portfolio is biased to the high end.

[Postulant]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

This enables the company to produce differentiated products that stand out against the sea of commodity PC notebooks that are fighting primarily only to be cheaper, resulting in a need to use older technology that doesn't demand any investment in innovative research.

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Apple intends to innovate its way out of the current recession, setting itself up for a strong position once the global economy recovers. Until then, sales of Apple notebooks appear to be stronger than ever, thanks to the company's relentless efforts to improve and differentiate its MacBooks from commodity PC alternatives.

Beautifully stated. And that's why I made the switch from PC to Mac.

[ltcommander.data]

Given my usage pattern, it's a reasonable compromise trading a replaceable 5 hour battery with a longer lasting non-replaceable 8 hour battery. It saves carrying a 2nd battery. As long as Apple's claims of 1000 cycle life up from 300 cycles is accurate, then I think it'll be okay in the long run.

I guess the question is when will it show up in the rest of the product line? Although it does go backwards on the MacBook and 15.4" MacBook Pro's recent promotion of the easy access cover.

[merdhead]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

The new 17" MacBook Pro claims an industry leading 8 hours of battery life, thanks to a series of innovations Apple highlighted in the new notebook's introduction. Even so, many of the advancements are not actually new, but rather the product of Apple's incremental engineering efforts to increase its notebooks' usability and desirability by thinking differently.

I think I'm going to puke. Is AI just a mouthpiece for Apple hype?

It's a bigger, non-removable, battery. The "Adaptive Charging" gives you better performance on cycling, but 300 is a seriously low-ball figure. Polymer batteries have been around forever and are common. On the other hand, no replaceable battery is a serious problem for many people.

If you really want to see something new, look at Toshiba's new Li-Ion batteries, which have serious performance.

[eazyway]

Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh

As a stockholder, I sure hope Apple can find a compromise between being "cheap" and "high end" for the next few years. Based on the keynote, they sold 2.3MM macs this past quarter, which was a little lower than I hoped, but seemingly in-line with estimates.

It will be hard to maintain sales and profits if the entire portfolio is biased to the high end.

There was no mention of how many units Apple sold this quarter. The only mention was that they sold 9.7 M units in the past FISCAL year , which was the actual sales for Fiscal 08 and ended on Sept 30 2008.

[Chris Cuilla]

Almost certainly this (along with the aluminum uni-body manufacturing technology/process) is what Apple was referring to when they talked about product transitions leading to lower margins but significant competitive advantage.

What's interesting is that this is that this shows better than anything how Apple is investing for the long term.

Undoubtedly these are manufacturing technologies that are resulting in higher costs now but will result in lower costs (and even more interesting product designs) later.

Another interesting thing is how the different product platforms (iPod, iPhone, Mac) are continually "cross-pollinating" each other from a software, hardware design and manufacturing technology perspective.

[rain]

I would advise all investors to sell.
Buy at $57 in April.

[hiimamac]

Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh

As a stockholder, I sure hope Apple can find a compromise between being "cheap" and "high end" for the next few years. Based on the keynote, they sold 2.3MM macs this past quarter, which was a little lower than I hoped, but seemingly in-line with estimates.

It will be hard to maintain sales and profits if the entire portfolio is biased to the high end.

I have to agree with that, especially since Apple has gone from a catered, loyal, creative high end user base to one and one lessons tailored for barking dogs, email attachments, auntie moo moo and her iPhoto library with most of the Mac Specialists not knowing a thing about Logic, Shake, Motion, Final Cut, Aperture and the likes. Apple is now a consumer company. No more COMPUTER in the name, no more .MAC with a logo that looks starkly like a Microsoft logo, and now even iLife has gone from the CLEAN (logo), sharp look to one that is much busier.

Everything that Apple has done/created/marketed since the iPhone is all consumer.

They act like a specialist niche market in terms of price but everything else they do says otherwise - heck, they don't even cater the niche creative s that got them to where they are at all.

Additionally, if Apple can crank out these new revolutionary batteries now then why don't they sell them for all their products? It should be a priority for all Macbooks don't you think?a

[Booga]

Originally Posted by merdhead

I think I'm going to puke. Is AI just a mouthpiece for Apple hype?

It's a bigger, non-removable, battery. The "Adaptive Charging" gives you better performance on cycling, but 300 is a seriously low-ball figure. Polymer batteries have been around forever and are common. On the other hand, no replaceable battery is a serious problem for many people.

If you really want to see something new, look at Toshiba's new Li-Ion batteries, which have serious performance.

On the other hand, a 17" laptop with extreme tortional rigidity and a long battery life is probably going to sell WAY more laptops than the inability to go for more than 7 hours without plugging in is going to lose. I've owned a 17" MacBook Pro for the better part of a year and don't miss it myself. The only time my wife's original 15" MacBook Pro's battery has been removed is when its lifetime got too short and we replaced it for a new one-- something you can still do with the new one.

[greyst1crash]

Originally Posted by Booga

The only time my wife's original 15" MacBook Pro's battery has been removed is when its lifetime got too short and we replaced it for a new one-- something you can still do with the new one.

Exactly. All this whining about batteries...Like you guys, I never need to remove my battery. Same goes for all the crying about the iPhone not having a removable battery. While I'm not in the market to buy a new MBP, I do hope these batteries make their transition down to the other lines. I'm sure they will, but I like where they're going.

[SkateNY]

Originally Posted by greyst1crash

Exactly. All this whining about batteries...Like you guys, I never need to remove my battery. Same goes for all the crying about the iPhone not having a removable battery. While I'm not in the market to buy a new MBP, I do hope these batteries make their transition down to the other lines. I'm sure they will, but I like where they're going.

I've had a fourth generation iPod for over three years. I replaced the battery myself using a kit I purchased online for $18.99. If you don't want to do it yourself, or think you can't, you can get it done for you for around 29 bucks.

Everyone laughed -- and cringed -- when Apple introduced the iMac in 1997 because it didn't have a floppy drive. Since then, the iMac has become the highest selling desktop in history.

Everyone laughed -- and cringed -- when Apple introduced the iPod in October of 2001 because the MP3-player market was "saturated." Despite the fact that our economy was in a post-9/11 recession, the iPod became the world's premiere music device.

All this chatter about batteries, PC vs. Mac prices, and all the rest of it is nothing more than noise in the system. None of us who love, use, and depend on Apple products give a rat's ass about whiny complainers who don't seem to be pleased with anything that doesn't fit their very subjective specifications for perfection.

Some people just need to grow up.

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by greyst1crash

Exactly. All this whining about batteries...Like you guys, I never need to remove my battery. Same goes for all the crying about the iPhone not having a removable battery. While I'm not in the market to buy a new MBP, I do hope these batteries make their transition down to the other lines. I'm sure they will, but I like where they're going.

You must like to be a slave to Apple. Who buys a laptop without a removeable battery?
No swappable battery= NO SALE.

[Zandros]

Originally Posted by merdhead

It's a bigger, non-removable, battery. The "Adaptive Charging" gives you better performance on cycling, but 300 is a seriously low-ball figure. Polymer batteries have been around forever and are common. On the other hand, no replaceable battery is a serious problem for many people.

300 full recharges before reaching 80% capacity is, in my experience, pretty accurate.

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by merdhead

I think I'm going to puke. Is AI just a mouthpiece for Apple hype?

No- iPhone hype.

[NasserAE]

Originally Posted by merdhead

I think I'm going to puke. Is AI just a mouthpiece for Apple hype?

It's a bigger, non-removable, battery. The "Adaptive Charging" gives you better performance on cycling, but 300 is a seriously low-ball figure. Polymer batteries have been around forever and are common. On the other hand, no replaceable battery is a serious problem for many people.

If you really want to see something new, look at Toshiba's new Li-Ion batteries, which have serious performance.

From Apple website: "For Apple notebooks with removable batteries — such as the MacBook, MacBook Air, and 15-inch MacBook Pro — a properly maintained battery is designed to retain up to 80% of its original capacity at 300 full charge and discharge cycles. You may choose to replace your battery when it no longer holds sufficient charge to meet your needs."

Your battery will not just die after 300 cycles but it will not hold as much charge as it used to. My MBP is 2 months old and already at 65 cycles. This means one cycle a a day and maybe I will have to replace my battery after one and half year of usage.

[Vituperable]

Originally Posted by teckstud

You must like to be a slave to Apple. Who buys a laptop without a removeable battery?
No swappable battery= NO SALE.

The exact same thing was said about phones! Why are there always a few morons who don't understand innovation? Do you really believe that you won't be able to replace the battery? This company continues to knock it out of the box year after freakin year! Name the superior notebook. Please name it. I'll wait...

[SkateNY]

Originally Posted by teckstud

You must like to be a slave to Apple. Who buys a laptop without a removeable battery?
No swappable battery= NO SALE.

People who aren't narrow-minded and slaves to fading technology.

Apple helped make me wealthy enough so that I could run my own business from my home. If that's slavery, I'll sign up for it every time.

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by Vituperable

The exact same thing was said about phones! Why are there always a few morons who don't understand innovation? Do you really believe that you won't be able to replace the battery? This company continues to knock it out of the box year after freakin year! Name the superior notebook. Please name it. I'll wait...

Oh I see- so innovation means like no Matte screens, no Blu-ray, no Fire wire, no MMS pics, no Video capture on their phone, no small laptops????
Idiots like you that want to lug around an oversized $3,000 tin cookie baking sheet look just like that - moronic.

[DWS-2]

I don't know anyone who has an extra battery for their laptop, and I know a lot of people with laptops. In other words, everyone I know would benefit from the new way Apple is approaching batteries. I only wish they had this on the 15" MacBook Pro; I'd buy a new one today.

Ever since Jobs was reinstated, people have been complaining about Apple's bad decisions. No more clones! Death knell. The iPod was roundly criticized. etc. etc. Yet every year, Apple breaks new records with growth in Macs even as they expand into other product categories. I believe that Apple makes money precisely because everyone doubts its decisions, which means that people don't copy Apple's innovations until Apple already has the upper hand.

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by SkateNY

People who aren't narrow-minded and slaves to fading technology.

Apple helped make me wealthy enough so that I could run my own business from my home. If that's slavery, I'll sign up for it every time.

A lot of people made fortunes running Windows at home too - so what's your point?

[SkateNY]

Originally Posted by teckstud

A lot of people made fortunes running Windows at home too - so what's your point?

I wasn't trying to make a point, despite the fact that you appear to be straining to make one yourself.

What's clear that you are a very angry person with an agenda. Great. Just don't kick your dog over it.

[SkateNY]

Originally Posted by DWS-2

I don't know anyone who has an extra battery for their laptop, and I know a lot of people with laptops. In other words, everyone I know would benefit from the new way Apple is approaching batteries. I only wish they had this on the 15" MacBook Pro; I'd buy a new one today.

Ever since Jobs was reinstated, people have been complaining about Apple's bad decisions. No more clones! Death knell. The iPod was roundly criticized. etc. etc. Yet every year, Apple breaks new records with growth in Macs even as they expand into other product categories. I believe that Apple makes money precisely because everyone doubts its decisions, which means that people don't copy Apple's innovations until Apple already has the upper hand.

Don't waste your breath. The only thing Apple haters can't tolerate is the truth. Misery doesn't love company; misery loves miserable company, and people like tekstud (great name, btw), seem to believe that their life's mission is to make other people as miserable as they are.

[Phone-UI-Guy]

Originally Posted by teckstud

You must like to be a slave to Apple. Who buys a laptop without a removeable battery?
No swappable battery= NO SALE.

MacBook Air? Apparently lots of people. It amuses me how many people second guess Apple. Are they perfect? No. Do they buck traditional convention such as the need for removable batteries? Yes. Will it pay off for them? Sure looks like it. While your whining about it, people are going to line up to buy a notebook that doesn't need a removable battery.

[NasserAE]

Originally Posted by teckstud

You must like to be a slave to Apple. Who buys a laptop without a removeable battery?
No swappable battery= NO SALE.

Personally, I never bought a secondary laptop battery and I have been using laptops since the early 1990s. People who use secondary batteries use them because they want more time using their laptops. If this can be achieved without swappable batteries then where is the problem?! Everyone I now who uses a laptop never bothers with batteries.

Unlike few years back, today you can find a power source almost everywhere. The last few times I flew I had a power outlet under my seat. Airports have plenty of power outlets as well.

[Virgil-TB2]

Originally Posted by teckstud

You must like to be a slave to Apple. Who buys a laptop without a removeable battery?
No swappable battery= NO SALE.

My advice to you is to never to buy an Apple product, they just aren't made for people like you.

If you are going to have knee-jerk reactions about stuff before you even bother to think about it, you should probably just stay at home and shout at the TV.

[NasserAE]

Originally Posted by teckstud

Oh I see- so innovation means like no Matte screens, no Blu-ray, no Fire wire, no MMS pics, no Video capture on their phone, no small laptops????

No floppy drive, no serial port, no modem.. etc. People usually don't quickly understand why Apple pushes toward specific technology and many times abandon others.

[anilsudhakaran]

Originally Posted by teckstud

You must like to be a slave to Apple. Who buys a laptop without a removeable battery?
No swappable battery= NO SALE.

Take your swappable battery and shove it up your filthy stinking A'HOLE.

[iPeon]

Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh

As a stockholder, I sure hope Apple can find a compromise between being "cheap" and "high end" for the next few years. Based on the keynote, they sold 2.3MM macs this past quarter, which was a little lower than I hoped, but seemingly in-line with estimates.

It will be hard to maintain sales and profits if the entire portfolio is biased to the high end.

Not gonna happen. Apple is an innovator not a puppet factory. An intelligent person recognizes the value in Apple's products, the rest can go to M$ to get what they deserve.

[federmoose]

Originally Posted by hiimamac

Additionally, if Apple can crank out these new revolutionary batteries now then why don't they sell them for all their products? It should be a priority for all Macbooks don't you think?a

Think again. the reason we get 8 hours is because the 17" is a huge computer. you don't have nearly that real-estate on a 15" or 13". So you will not be able to get 2x the battery life on a 15" or 13" by the same method until battery tech improves a lot more. Maybe in a year or so it'll filter down, but until then I highly doubt it. Please think before insulting.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by SkateNY

The only thing Apple haters can't tolerate is the truth. Misery doesn't love company; misery loves miserable company, and people like teckstud (great name, btw), seem to believe that their life's mission is to make other people as miserable as they are.

Great name, thought entirely inaccurate. The only constant with Teckstud is that if he doesn't like something it's generally the right move for Apple and its consumer base.

Originally Posted by NasserAE

Personally, I never bought a secondary laptop battery and I have been using laptops since the early 1990s. People who use secondary batteries use them because they want more time using their laptops. If this can be achieved without swappable batteries then where is the problem?! Everyone I now who uses a laptop never bothers with batteries.

I have three batteries for my MacBook. While this gives me 300% the original juice, which is lower than the current 17" MBP's reported 8 hour battery life that 60% more than the previous MBP, I would love to have this option as extra batteries is a PITA.

I would like to a least have the option to buy an external MagSafe connected battery from Apple or an approved 3rd-party, but that isn't too much of a big deal as 8 hours covers most international flights.

PS: The previous 17" MBP was 5 hours and the current MB and 15" MBP is 5 hours, so hopefully we'll get this in the other Mac notebooks as well.

[federmoose]

Originally Posted by NasserAE

Personally, I never bought a secondary laptop battery and I have been using laptops since the early 1990s. People who use secondary batteries use them because they want more time using their laptops. If this can be achieved without swappable batteries then where is the problem?! Everyone I now who uses a laptop never bothers with batteries.

Unlike few years back, today you can find a power source almost everywhere. The last few times I flew I had a power outlet under my seat. Airports have plenty of power outlets as well.

I have family members who carry 3 spare batteries with them (think transatlantic flights). 4 batteries total = approx 16 hours of life. Granted, some airlines have plugs under the seat, but most don't. Here's the thing though... the battery is replaceable, you just need a screwdriver. So you cary one extra battery (2 batteries * 8h = 16h) and a screwdriver... you can replace it on an airplane just fine (honestly, how many times are you going on a transatlantic flight anyways?). In other words, even for those who cary LOTS of extra batteries, I'm missing the problem here.

[macologist]

How about External Spare Battery. Those External Battery Packs exist on iPhones and iPod Touch, and they are small, so I assume that someone will offer those for this New MBP Unibody, right? Or Battery Pack Chargers?

Solar recharging will eventually become more common?

As to outlets on planes and airports....

Only on select planes, and mostly not in coach, except for a few seats, that one has to reserve ahead of time. First Class is easier, but most people don't fly that way.

Outlets in Terminals are not nearly as plentiful as they should be!


My bigger concern is EASE of installing more RAM and bigger HD in this New Unibody MBP 17'.

500GB 7200 rpm HD's already exist and Other World Computing is either already selling them, or will be any day now. Wish Apple offered those!

Same with 8GB RAM = $1,149.99, which is LIFETIME WARRANTY and $50 LESS then Apple! Still expensive! But OWC offers a Rebate for Apple's 4GB (2x2), they don't mention on their site how much they'd be willing to pay for it.

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other.../8566DDR3S8GP/

Glad to see NON-GLARE Screens back. Hope they are the same high resolution as Glossy. Wish they had the same Black Bezel option too! I am beginning to like it!

Waiting for 3rd Gen iPhone, with Copy + Paste, Spotlight, Memo Syncing! Then I'd get this New Unibody MBP 17', and live happily ever after!

Wish people stopped getting into personal insults on a great site like this!

[federmoose]

Originally Posted by iPeon

Not gonna happen. Apple is an innovator not a puppet factory. An intelligent person recognizes the value in Apple's products, the rest can go to M$ to get what they deserve.

well said. Those who don't like the lack of easily removable battery can buy something else. Many people on this forum represent a niche market, so Apple is gaining more than it is losing. Honestly though... how many people who are bashing the product were thinking of buying one anyways?

[federmoose]

Originally Posted by macologist

How about External Spare Battery. Those External Battery Packs exist on iPhones and iPod Touch, and they are small, so I assume that someone will offer those for this New MBP Unibody, right? Or Battery Pack Chargers?

3rd party units like this will be created I'm sure. Run to the patent office now!!

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by federmoose

I have family members who carry 3 spare batteries with them (think transatlantic flights). 4 batteries total = approx 16 hours of life. Granted, some airlines have plugs under the seat, but most don't. Here's the thing though... the battery is replaceable, you just need a screwdriver. So you cary one extra battery (2 batteries * 8h = 16h) and a screwdriver... you can replace it on an airplane just fine (honestly, how many times are you going on a transatlantic flight anyways?). In other words, even for those who cary LOTS of extra batteries, I'm missing the problem here.

Here is where I do have an issue. If you need more than 8 hours, which could be 10-12 hours if you have WiFi off and aren't HD movies or using the Optical drive, then changing the internal battery is very inconvenient. 10 tiny screws in coach may not take long to unscrew, but the potential for dropping/losing screws is high and I can't help but imagine what the other passengers and crew would think about you taking apart your laptop halfwy through a flight. Try wearing a turbine or reading from the Qur'an right before you do it. You'd probably have a nice anecdote after they release you.

[cggr]

Originally Posted by DWS-2

I don't know anyone who has an extra battery for their laptop, and I know a lot of people with laptops. In other words, everyone I know would benefit from the new way Apple is approaching batteries. I only wish they had this on the 15" MacBook Pro; I'd buy a new one today.

Ever since Jobs was reinstated, people have been complaining about Apple's bad decisions. No more clones! Death knell. The iPod was roundly criticized. etc. etc. Yet every year, Apple breaks new records with growth in Macs even as they expand into other product categories. I believe that Apple makes money precisely because everyone doubts its decisions, which means that people don't copy Apple's innovations until Apple already has the upper hand.

Sorry - I really have to disagree with those who seriously entertain the idea that a non-replaceable battery is a good idea in a professional computer. Professionals use these devices as tools to do real work. On planes. On trains. On the move. If the battery runs out thats it - have to find a power point. The iphone design makes it difficult to use as someone who uses a phone all day during the workday. I have had to buy 2 iphones just so that I can make it through the day using the iphone as my primary phone. To use a non-replaceable battery in an energy-hungry monster like the 17" macbook pro seems really crazy. At the end of its charging cycle when it only lasts 2 - 3 hours you will have to wait to have the battery changed over - what so your primary work machine is out of action for 2 - 3 days or longer just so a battery can be changed? If you are finishing off a last minute piece of work and the battery dies you cant quickly swap in a new one? If it dies during a presentation in front of a room full of clients and you cant swap a battery in and have left the power cable at home?

Non-replacable batteries are a disastrous direction for apple - if they are marketing to mobile professionals. All of these situations arise in real-world usage. what they should be targeting is cheap and long-lasting replaceable versions of this high-density Li-polymer battery. By all means make the cheap laptops use these batteries - but for pros who actually use them to make a living - sorry - but we need the flexibility and ability to get out of trouble with a new battery on the fly - however rare its required.

[silverpraxis]

For me personally, if I ever had to hot swap batteries for a laptop, there must be something wrong with the laptop. I think there is a very select group of people that need more than 5 hours of battery life between charges. The other guestimated 98% can buy the new 17" MBP.

I believe people that say Apple made a huge mistake with this design decision need to see what the general populous need/want in laptop computing and muse on that a moment before decrying the lack of availability for their specialized needs.

And I'm extremely tired of people complaining about Apple targeting consumers instead of professionals. If I was looking to be successful and make a ton of cash, I'd target the broadest market available, general consumers. The moms and pops and tweens that edit and post photos/videos with as little hassle as possible, that surf the web, that write school essays, and do home finances. Apple seemingly has found a way to target Toyota's market with Mercedes' profit margins. So they're a little low-end for the neediest professionals and gamers, so they're a little high-end for casual users, I still think they hit the mark.

If they are so wrong, why hasn't it hurt them with year after year of "poor decisions", "botched launches", "slow updates", "and "buggy software." Why are their sales rising higher than ever with more profit than ever? And why is the competition always copying them? (Have you seen the new HP notebook that looks like the "ugly" new macbooks.)

[cggr]

Originally Posted by silverpraxis

For me personally, if I ever had to hot swap batteries for a laptop, there must be something wrong with the laptop. I think there is a very select group of people that need more than 5 hours of battery life between charges. The other guestimated 98% can buy the new 17" MBP.

I believe people that say Apple made a huge mistake with this design decision need to see what the general populous need/want in laptop computing and muse on that a moment before decrying the lack of availability for their specialized needs.

And I'm extremely tired of people complaining about Apple targeting consumers instead of professionals. If I was looking to be successful and make a ton of cash, I'd target the broadest market available, general consumers. The moms and pops and tweens that edit and post photos/videos with as little hassle as possible, that surf the web, that write school essays, and do home finances. Apple seemingly has found a way to target Toyota's market with Mercedes' profit margins. So they're a little low-end for the neediest professionals and gamers, so they're a little high-end for casual users, I still think they hit the mark.

If they are so wrong, why hasn't it hurt them with year after year of "poor decisions", "botched launches", "slow updates", "and "buggy software." Why are their sales rising higher than ever with more profit than ever? And why is the competition always copying them? (Have you seen the new HP notebook that looks like the "ugly" new macbooks.)

Agree that consumers drive a successful business model (although it could be said that niche professionals probably kept apple afloat for the years prior to intel) but there's a difference between consumer hardware and professional hardware requirements. The computer shutting down with no power is no big deal if you are editing in iphoto but being unable to continue your presentation with a new battery or just buying a new battery as opposed to putting your laptop in for repair for a battery change seems like an obvious choice to me.

i think apple has made excellent decisions in the past couple of years (the best was PPC -> intel) but equally simply buying an apple because it is an apple is an equally silly approach - and I think there must be a middle ground - why not have a built-in AND swappable battery - retain the flexibility and the baseline built-in battery.

I just think that innovation for innovation's sake isnt neccessarlty a good or beneficial thing for anyone...

[Virgil-TB2]

Here's a thought ...

I don't really believe these folks really even exist, but if there *are* people out there (as some people here are arguing), that need to have three or even four batteries for their laptops and swap them back and forth ....

... they should be damned ashamed of themselves.

This kind of gobbling up of resources and environmental abuse, just so you can (likely) watch porn on your transatlantic business flight, is nothing to be proud of at all.