Apple to replace 17-inch MacBook Pro batteries in stores

[AppleInsider]

Apple this week served up the details of its battery replacement program for the new 17-inch MacBook Pro, which offers customers the option of having a new battery installed at their nearest Apple retail store.

The top-of-the-line Apple notebook will ship later this month with a new built-in battery which the company says is capable of delivering up to eight hours of use and up to 1,000 recharges for more than three times the lifespan of traditional notebook batteries.

The design of the 95 watt-hour lithium polymer part is also more compact than conventional batteries due to Apple's proprietary manufacturing process, helping to make the new 17-inch MacBook Pro the thinnest and lightest in its class.

One tradeoff is that new 17-incher doesn't provide the same easy access panel for battery replacements as its 13- and 15-inch cousins. Instead, Apple plans to offer a $179 battery replacement program that includes installation of the new battery and environmentally responsible disposal of the depleted battery. (Prices for other regions can be seen in the chart, below).

According to the Mac maker, the length of time to complete the battery replacement will depend upon the repair location and availability of service stock. Generally speaking, customers who use the Apple mail-in service will receive their MacBook Pro back with a new battery within 3 to 4 business days after the notebook ships out to its repair depots.



Unlike battery replacements for the iPhone, however, Apple has also announced that customers can have a new battery installed in their 17-inch MacBook Pro at their local Apple retail store with a Genius Bar appointment. MacBook Pros serviced at Apple stores will be returned the same day. Several Apple Authorized Service Provider (AASP) may also offer the in-store service. Customers interested in this approach should contact their local AASP for turnaround times.

Apple warrants both the battery that ships with the MacBook Pro and the its battery replacements against manufacturing defects for one year from the date of purchase.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[camroidv27]

I dunno, but I still don't like the idea of having to go in to an Apple store, or sending your laptop away for half a week for a simple battery replacement. It just makes me question something.

No iPods have user replaceable batteries. (Same goes for iPhone). I didn't like this idea either. But with those batteries only lasting a year or two, and a MBP17 battery lasting probably 3 years, it just means more foot traffic into the Apple store.

Anything to get us back into the Apple store right? "Is there anything else we can help you with?" While you get your battery replaced, may as well get your OS, iLife/iWork, and what ever apps you need updated too. Once you are in there doing the battery replacement, more likely to buy the upgrades too I suppose.

I dunno... just seems kinda weird and not in the good way.


On another note, how come the lines to the genius bar are so long often filled up within the first few hours of the day? I see so many dead products come back to the Apple store... and I see a lot of replacement products head out too... Just something to notice.

[bdkennedy1]

Somehow waiting all day for my battery to be replaced doesn't appeal to me.

If you don't live near an Apple store, then you're SOL unless you want to be without your laptop for a week and pay shipping charges on top of that $179 battery.

[federmoose]

Originally Posted by bdkennedy1

If you don't live near an Apple store, then you're SOL unless you want to be without your laptop for a week and pay shipping charges on top of that $179 battery.

I'm pretty sure shipping is included in the $179. My bet is they ship you out a box (takes 2 days), you ship it back in the box, they return it. That's how all other apple repairs go. Apple warranty care is pretty darned good.

Also, if you're under warranty (and/or Applecare), and you're battery dies earlier than you'd expect, call apple. Ask for a replacement, saying the battery is holding only X change after Y cycles, and that you'd like a new one.

[Virgil-TB2]

Originally Posted by federmoose

I'm pretty sure shipping is included in the $179. My bet is they ship you out a box (takes 2 days), you ship it back in the box, they return it. That's how all other apple repairs go. Apple warranty care is pretty darned good.

Also, if you're under warranty (and/or Applecare), and you're battery dies earlier than you'd expect, call apple. Ask for a replacement, saying the battery is holding only X change after Y cycles, and that you'd like a new one.

Agreed.
I don't see how this is any different from brakes on a car or a million other things. Most folks don't even change their own tires even though they are "user replaceable" but there is nothing stopping you from doing it if you want to.

There will also be "kits" for those that want to do it themselves. Anyone handy with a screwdriver of average intelligence can do this replacement and it's theoretically only going to happen every five years or so. In other words it might not happen for the entire time you own the product.

Seems obvious to me that if putting a replaceable battery in screws with the design and is not actually necessary in most cases, then this is clearly the way to go.

[Virgil-TB2]

Originally Posted by camroidv27

I dunno, but I still don't like the idea of having to go in to an Apple store, or sending your laptop away for half a week for a simple battery replacement. It just makes me question something.

No iPods have user replaceable batteries. (Same goes for iPhone). I didn't like this idea either. But with those batteries only lasting a year or two, and a MBP17 battery lasting probably 3 years, it just means more foot traffic into the Apple store.

Anything to get us back into the Apple store right? "Is there anything else we can help you with?" While you get your battery replaced, may as well get your OS, iLife/iWork, and what ever apps you need updated too. Once you are in there doing the battery replacement, more likely to buy the upgrades too I suppose ...

I really doubt they would screw with one of their flagship products just to get more foot traffic in the stores.

Apple's design ethic is fairly established at this point. They don't consider retail issues when designing cases for laptops, they consider issues relevant to laptop cases instead.

Makes sense too!

[BenRoethig]

Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2

Agreed.
I don't see how this is any different from brakes on a car or a million other things.

I don't have to drive two or more hours to see a mechanic.

[Booga]

Apple's current guidelines are that after 4 or so years of regular use, your battery should hold 80% of its initial capacity. Somehow I don't think doing this once every 5 years or so (or, for most folks, replacing the laptop entirely before the first battery replacement) will be a deal-breaker. If after 10 years when your 2nd battery is ready to change in 2019 if you're really hurting maybe we can all pitch in for a Mr. Fusion replacement.

[Virgil-TB2]

Originally Posted by BenRoethig

I don't have to drive two or more hours to see a mechanic.

Well lots of people do though.

And those that are unreasonably far away from a garage learn how to change the brakes themselves.

I'm not disagreeing with the idea that there isn't a down-side, just that it's a trade off and that all things considered it seems like a great decision to make it non-replaceable. Nothings perfect, but the chorus of folks saying (paraphrased) "OMG, I might have a hassle with the battery years from now, I ain't buying that!" are being silly.

[alansky]

My concern about the non-replaceable battery is that many working pros need to use their laptops in remote locations for more than the 5.5 hours one can reasonably expect from an "8 hour" battery. Kinda limits the usefulness of the king of MBP's for working on location.

[mcarling]

Originally Posted by alansky

My concern about the non-replaceable battery is that many working pros need to use their laptops in remote locations for more than the 5.5 hours one can reasonably expect from an "8 hour" battery. Kinda limits the usefulness of the king of MBP's for working on location.

I don't know anyone who carries a spare battery for a laptop. However, if you really need it, just carry a spare MBP.

[Abster2core]

Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2

Agreed.
I don't see how this is any different from brakes on a car or a million other things. Most folks don't even change their own tires even though they are "user replaceable" but there is nothing stopping you from doing it if you want to.

There will also be "kits" for those that want to do it themselves. Anyone handy with a screwdriver of average intelligence can do this replacement and it's theoretically only going to happen every five years or so. In other words it might not happen for the entire time you own the product.

Seems obvious to me that if putting a replaceable battery in screws with the design and is not actually necessary in most cases, then this is clearly the way to go.

Agreed. By the time anybody needs to replace the battery there will be a slew of replacements available and instructions to boot. Probably longer life and cheaper to.

Let's face it, one can still plug it in while the part is being shipped. Overnight if need be.

[meemorize]

I personally don't mind having to send my apple product away though their service is insanely location dependant.
Here in New Zealand we don't even have an Apple Store, so i guess I will 'lose' my laptop for a week for a pretty simple battery replacement.

Also: You've got to love their pricing strategy, US$179 but AU$299 (~US$200) and judging by the past premium for NZ (in local retailers anyway) we'll probably end up paying ~US$250. No thanks.

[mstone]

Originally Posted by mcarling

I don't know anyone who carries a spare battery for a laptop. However, if you really need it, just carry a spare MBP.

People just complain for the hell of it. I bet 99% of complainers have either never replaced their MacBook Pro battery or never owned a MacBook Pro and most likely have never worked away from a power source for more than a few hours. A little planning is all it takes to make sure you don't run out of power. As far as battery failure, Apple is estimating that under normal circumstances the battery should last 300 recycles (quite a few years in most cases.) If it fails before then it is just like any other component that fails prematurely - You just have bad luck and have to deal with it. At least Apple is informing you of your options. If this doesn't work for you, buy a different computer.

[iBrad]

Originally Posted by alansky

My concern about the non-replaceable battery is that many working pros need to use their laptops in remote locations for more than the 5.5 hours one can reasonably expect from an "8 hour" battery. Kinda limits the usefulness of the king of MBP's for working on location.

http://apexdistribution.stores.yahoo...rsopapoge.html

[roehlstation]

Originally Posted by BenRoethig

I don't have to drive two or more hours to see a mechanic.

Many mechanics aren't open on the weekends or during hours that I'm not at work either. Apple Stores are, not to mention I'm sure there is a certified service center for Apple products near you that can do the replacement. It is 10 screws at the bottom of the case, certainly something that should take less time to replace than an oil change.

[walshbj]

Originally Posted by meemorize

I personally don't mind having to send my apple product away though their service is insanely location dependant.
Here in New Zealand we don't even have an Apple Store, so i guess I will 'lose' my laptop for a week for a pretty simple battery replacement.

Also: You've got to love their pricing strategy, US$179 but AU$299 (~US$200) and judging by the past premium for NZ (in local retailers anyway) we'll probably end up paying ~US$250. No thanks.

Are you serious? For a battery change that far in the future you say no thanks because of a surcharge you're not even sure about yet - you say no?

I would have thought living in NZ people would be used to doing things a little different than the rest of the world, definitely different than in the continental US. I'd surely expect to pay more for many things living there.

I know I wouldn't say no to the machine that suited me best because MAYBE I'm going to have to replace the battery at some point and pay a surcharge less than a hundred dollars.

[charlituna]

Originally Posted by camroidv27

and a MBP17 battery lasting probably 3 years,

they designed it for 3 to 5 years of use depending on your use. after that long, you are just as likely to want to buy the latest and greatest new model rather than just replace your battery.

Especially the power users that shell out for something like a 17 inch MBPro. Rarely are these the typical users. They are the gaming geeks, the hard core professionals, the indie film makers. they will definitely want top of the line. and will get a new computer by then

The average user is going to bleed their current 17 inch dry which means buying a replaceable battery at least 1-2 times and not getting a new computer for another 3 years anyway.

On another note, how come the lines to the genius bar are so long often filled up within the first few hours of the day? I see so many dead products come back to the Apple store

do you work at a genius bar. do you actually know how many of those 'dead' products really are dead and how many are frozen because of user error or are so old it's a wonder they are still working and not newer but defective product.

and do you have detailed statistics on how many comparable products from other manufacturers haven't come back dead in order to imply that Apple is so inferior to everyone else. I bet you don't.

Originally Posted by bdkennedy1

Somehow waiting all day for my battery to be replaced doesn't appeal to me.

actually from the sounds of it, the replacement can be done in a Bar appointment, so that's like 30 minutes tops. probably half that most of the time. so long as you bother to make an appointment and don't play the 'I think I"ll just drop by, i'm sure they can squeeze me in' game

Originally Posted by mstone

As far as battery failure, Apple is estimating that under normal circumstances the battery should last 300 recycles

if by 'recycles' you mean charges then you need to add about 700 to that number.

[bryanhauer]

Originally Posted by BenRoethig

I don't have to drive two or more hours to see a mechanic.

You can't drive 2 hours once every 3-5 years? C'mon. Like others have said this is a lot to do about nothing. Is there not electricity where some of the whiners here live? I mean how hard is it to buy a $40 car power inverter from Best Buy if you're really going to be on the road? Every where I go there are these awesome little things called "electrical outlets".

[tjs]

It's simple... plan ahead. Skip a couple of trips to StarBucks a month, set that money aside and by the time you need to replace the battery you'll have it paid for.

[Johnny Mozzarella]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Unlike battery replacements for the iPhone, however, Apple has also announced that customers can have a new battery installed in their 17-inch MacBook Pro at their local Apple retail store with a Genius Bar appointment. MacBook Pros serviced at Apple stores will be returned the same day.

This is wrong.
Apple has a battery replacement program for both the iPod and iPhone in place.
It works a little different for iPods and iPhones.
I took my 2nd Gen iPod to an Apple Retail store and paid $60 + tax.
I left with a Refurbished 2nd Gen iPod with a brand new battery and a brand new outer case.
It looked as good as the day I bought it in 2003(five years ago).

You can do the same thing with an iPhone.

[Johnny Mozzarella]

Originally Posted by meemorize

I personally don't mind having to send my apple product away though their service is insanely location dependant.
Here in New Zealand we don't even have an Apple Store, so i guess I will 'lose' my laptop for a week for a pretty simple battery replacement.

Also: You've got to love their pricing strategy, US$179 but AU$299 (~US$200) and judging by the past premium for NZ (in local retailers anyway) we'll probably end up paying ~US$250. No thanks.

By the time the battery needs replacing there will be an Apple Store in your backyard.

[sennen]

Originally Posted by camroidv27

I dunno, but I still don't like the idea of having to go in to an Apple store, or sending your laptop away for half a week for a simple battery replacement.

not happy with losing your computer for a few days, but still not happy for a same day turnaround? you might be better off with a refurb, but i daresay would probably then want the same battery life from the old mbp as well...

Anything to get us back into the Apple store right? "Is there anything else we can help you with?"

you can always say "No thanks, I'm not after anything else". it's not that hard to do.

[lkrupp]

Every single prediction of sales doom from the replaceable battery crowd has failed to materialize, from the iPod to the MBA, to the iPhone, and now to the MBP 17. Don't you doofuses ever get tired of being so spectacularly wrong? And while I'm at it let's add the iPhone copy-and-paste crowd to the list of doofuses.

[cnocbui]

Originally Posted by mcarling

I don't know anyone who carries a spare battery for a laptop.

You do now.

However, if you really need it, just carry a spare MBP.

Steve and the crew saw you coming.

[Lorre]

Originally Posted by alansky

My concern about the non-replaceable battery is that many working pros need to use their laptops in remote locations for more than the 5.5 hours one can reasonably expect from an "8 hour" battery. Kinda limits the usefulness of the king of MBP's for working on location.

I must say, if you lay low on the screen brightness, and don't do processor intensive tasks (I don't think people are going to render 3D in a place without power plugs now will they) Apple's posted battery life is spot on (at least for my MacBook it is)

If I go all the way and disable Bluetooth and Wireless, put screen brightness ar 5 blocks and just start doing some Word/Excel-type work, it says U have 6:30 minutes left

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by mcarling

I don't know anyone who carries a spare battery for a laptop. However, if you really need it, just carry a spare MBP.

So you changed a $150 or $300 option (one or two spare batteries) to a $3000 option? Smooth going. Instead of making the other side's argument look bad, you made your own argument look bad.

Originally Posted by bryanhauer

You can't drive 2 hours once every 3-5 years? C'mon. Like others have said this is a lot to do about nothing. Is there not electricity where some of the whiners here live?

You are, in effect, whining about whining.

[TBell]

People are acting like this will be the only option. Other companies will offer better prices and deals. There will also be do it yourself kits.

Originally Posted by bdkennedy1

Somehow waiting all day for my battery to be replaced doesn't appeal to me.

If you don't live near an Apple store, then you're SOL unless you want to be without your laptop for a week and pay shipping charges on top of that $179 battery.

[hillstones]

Originally Posted by camroidv27

I dunno, but I still don't like the idea of having to go in to an Apple store, or sending your laptop away for half a week for a simple battery replacement. It just makes me question something.

No iPods have user replaceable batteries. (Same goes for iPhone). I didn't like this idea either. But with those batteries only lasting a year or two, and a MBP17 battery lasting probably 3 years, it just means more foot traffic into the Apple store.

Anything to get us back into the Apple store right? "Is there anything else we can help you with?" While you get your battery replaced, may as well get your OS, iLife/iWork, and what ever apps you need updated too. Once you are in there doing the battery replacement, more likely to buy the upgrades too I suppose.

I dunno... just seems kinda weird and not in the good way.

On another note, how come the lines to the genius bar are so long often filled up within the first few hours of the day? I see so many dead products come back to the Apple store... and I see a lot of replacement products head out too... Just something to notice.

I replaced the battery in my iPod for $29. I would never attempt to open an iPhone, would rather have Apple handle that one. Who cares if it means foot traffic into an Apple Store. At least they are nice to visit.

Genius bars are full because they are generally filled with people that made APPOINTMENTS ahead of time. Since you claim to see so many dead products come back to the Apple Store, I guess you must enjoy visiting them often, so why would it bother you to go back to have them replace a battery?

[hillstones]

$179 is a bargain for a new replacement battery. That's only $50 more than the replaceable battery (all current MacBooks and Pros), and you are getting much more of a battery. I have a PowerBook G4 15" Ti that is 6 years old, mint condition, and I have replaced the battery once, and that was last year. I used the battery whenever I was in a spot that provided no power. Other times, I always found a place to plug in, which is what most people do as well. Others have confirmed that they bought an extra battery because they thought it was a great idea, but then discovered they never used it, and hated lugging it around.

I would much rather have a built-in battery that Apple could replace at any time with minimal inconvience (a trip to an Apple Store), that provides more power, and makes the laptop much more durable when being moved around. I am sure the 17" is rock solid with the solid bottom cover. No one seems to be complaining about the MacBook Air's battery.

[roehlstation]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

So you changed a $150 or $300 option (one or two spare batteries) to a $3000 option? Smooth going. Instead of making the other side's argument look bad, you made your own argument look bad.

Ummm...it's called a joke.

And, really, what is so wrong about questioning having more than one computer. Working in the computer service area I too often find it funny that so many people that are running their own business

1. Do not backup their data and
2. Run their entire business off of a single computer.

Their business is not worth a $200 external hard disk or a cheap $300-$500 computer, just to get you through until your main machine gets a repair finished. Do you really believe someone buying a 17" MacBook Pro only has 1 computer?

What if FedEx only had one delivery truck?

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by roehlstation

Ummm...it's called a joke.

I suppose it could be, I'd like to see that confirmed. Even if it is, it doesn't look like a good one.

And, really, what is so wrong about questioning having more than one computer. Working in the computer service area I too often find it funny that so many people that are running their own business

1. Do not backup their data and
2. Run their entire business off of a single computer.

Their business is not worth a $200 external hard disk or a cheap $300-$500 computer, just to get you through until your main machine gets a repair finished. Do you really believe someone buying a 17" MacBook Pro only has 1 computer?

What if FedEx only had one delivery truck?

Having more than one computer doesn't mean carrying them both around at the same time to run one after the other runs dry, so your examples just don't apply.

Backups of data is a good idea, but that doesn't require having more than one computer. Even with Firewire target mode, backing up one computer to another isn't as convenient as just backing up to another hard drive.

[roehlstation]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

I suppose it could be, I'd like to see that confirmed. Even if it is, it doesn't look like a good one.



Having more than one computer doesn't mean carrying them both around at the same time to run one after the other runs dry, so your examples just don't apply.

Backups of data is a good idea, but that doesn't require having more than one computer. Even with Firewire target mode, backing up one computer to another isn't as convenient as just backing up to another hard drive.

Anytime my firm goes to give a presentation to a potential client we carry a second computer, just in case the one doesn't work, not unheard of at all, I've seen it quite often, when it means nailing the presentation for a multi-million dollar project, the extra $3000 seems like small change....

[sflocal]

Originally Posted by camroidv27

Anything to get us back into the Apple store right? "Is there anything else we can help you with?" While you get your battery replaced, may as well get your OS, iLife/iWork, and what ever apps you need updated too. Once you are in there doing the battery replacement, more likely to buy the upgrades too I suppose.

The reality of it folks is that by the time the battery wears out, you'll most likely end up purchasing a new laptop anyways. It will take about 2-3 years for it to start going bad.

People here seem to think that batteries on laptops (especially modern laptops) have to be replaced all the time. I have never had to purchase a new battery for any of my laptops (both Mac & non-Mac). After a few years, the battery form-factor so old that they are were usually no longer available.

Honestly, this is a non-issue for the majority-percentage of users. Stop spinning this subject to be bigger than it really is.

[thomasaiwilcox]

Originally Posted by camroidv27

Anything to get us back into the Apple store right?

People seem to be treating Apple as if they are a public service that shouldnt be trying to make profit or drum up new business. At the end of the day they are a business and they are trying to make money. Plus the apple store is quite a nice experience.

[cnocbui]

Originally Posted by sflocal

The reality of it folks is that by the time the battery wears out, you'll probably end up purchasing a new laptop anyways. It will take probably 2-3 years for it to start going bad.

People seem to think that batteries on laptops (especially modern laptops) have to be replaced all the time. I have never had to purchase a new battery for any of my laptops (both Mac & non-Mac). After a few years, they became so old from a technical standpoint that they were usually no longer available.

Honestly, this is a non-issue for the majority percentage of users. Stop spinning this subject to be bigger than it really is.

I bought a 15" Powerbook G4 Ti 500mhz when they were new. That model occupied the same position in the lineup as the 17" does today. I have been using it for 8 years, not the 2-3 year time frame you seem to think is the norm.

I had a spare battery for it from new. Within two years, both batteries had only about a third of their stated capacity I would estimate. I now know why.

The problem with sealing away lithium batteries is that the technology is utter crap and has been misrepresented on a large scale.

Their touted energy density/capacity is entirely illusory, because if you deep discharge them - ie take advantage of the supposedly high capacity - you damage them such that they no longer have that capacity. If you care to look at the wikipedia article on Lithium ion batteries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery

You will find a little gem of a recommendation regarding their use in laptops:

* When using a notebook computer running from fixed line power over extended periods, the battery should be removed,[40] and stored in a cool place so that it is not affected by the heat produced by the computer.

The other major problem you will find with the wretched things is that their capacity starts to degrade permanently as soon as they are made. A 20% loss per year at 25 degrees C is pretty woeful if you ask me.

I have experienced this permanent capacity degradation with every product I have owned which include them. My 3rd generation iPod was down to barely 90 minutes of usable capacity after just two years. I have had the same problem with phones and Laptops.

Sealing these batteries away is an incredible disservice to users, but Apple don't seem to care about those idiots these days as they are so far up their own back passages admiring their aesthetic creations they no longer can see them.

If the battery in your car was sealed away so that you had to take it to a dealer to have it replaced every three years and then it cost $180 a time, or that shipping the car to the dealer and being without it for a week or so was the alternative, would you be happy with that?

I really can't get my head around the coterie of Apple sycophants who seem to think these impositions on users for the sake of minor aesthetic considerations is acceptable, or even a wonderful idea in some cases.

These sycophants, not surprisingly, all seem to live in major cities in the US and don't have the imagination or experience to appreciate that any other life situation is possible.

There are some 500 million people in the EU, and only a very small percentage of them would live anywhere remotely near an Apple store. I live in Ireland. When my first iPod carked it, It had to be shipped to the Netherlands for repair/replacement. That took three weeks round trip, not 3 days. Having to post off a laptop to have the battery replaced is unthinkable to me.

I am fairly technically adept myself, having reduced my Powerbook to it's constituant parts and reassembled it again on a couple of occasions and fitted a replacement battery to my iPod, even though it required filling down the motherboard and removing most of the insulating tape from the battery.

I have even been miles from anywhere in the Australian outback and have removed a punctured tyre from it's rim, repaired it and got it back on just using a couple of screwdrivers, something I would enjoy watching Virgil, the esteemed pilot of Thunderbird 2 accomplish. Virgil, I don't know how to break the news to you - there doesn't seem to be a gentle way - but Virgil was just a dummy.

The fact I could DIY a battery replacement does not diminish the fact of the hassle involved or that sealing such batteries away should be regarded as a technically deficient design decision.

[Abster2core]

Originally Posted by cnocbui

Sealing these batteries away is an incredible disservice to users, but Apple don't seem to care about those idiots these days as they are so far up their own back passages admiring their aesthetic creations they no longer can see them.

I am not sure what your problem is.

First of all sflocal ended his comment with, "Honestly, this is a non-issue for the majority percentage of users. Stop spinning this subject to be bigger than it really is." So your comments to him seem overkill.

Secondly, you seem to think that you won't be able to replace the battery yourself. Based on your contended 'mechanical' abilities, it would appear that a few 'watch-maker' screw drivers in your boot would suffice.

Thirdly, I don't contend that you don't or didn't, but Apple has well documented battery care, storage and calibration direction documents that for the life of me, are well pointed out but rarely followed.

[toysandme]

I have lost track of the number of Mac laptop batteries I have had to replace over the years. Most were recalled and at least one recalled battery was the subject of another recall. If (and only IF) these new batteries do not have to be recalled, replacement, with shipping and insurance, may be worth more than the computer itself. Whoever came up with the idea of making a device 1 mm thinner at the cost of crippling it was an idiot. Btw, isn't funny that a few days after the Palm Pre was announced the Apple store now allows competitive browsers to be downloaded? The Palm Pre is what the iPhone should have been, with a much better UI and the advantages of both a touch interface AND a qwerty keyboard. Of course it has copy & paste AND a user-replaceable battery!

[Mr Squid]

Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2

Well lots of people do though.

I have lived in some pretty isolated places in North America, and I have never been
somewhere where I have needed to drive for two hours to get work done on my
car (not counting the Coast Guard station in the middle of nowhere). I suspect
that the vast majority of North American car owners live within about a half-hour drive
of a decent garage.

[Abster2core]

Originally Posted by toysandme

Btw, isn't funny that a few days after the Palm Pre was announced the Apple store now allows competitive browsers to be downloaded? The Palm Pre is what the iPhone should have been, with a much better UI and the advantages of both a touch interface AND a qwerty keyboard. Of course it has copy & paste AND a user-replaceable battery!

Actually, iPhone Tech Talk showed how to develop web browsers last year.

As for the Palm Pre, go for it. You deserve one.

P.S. Four posts and all anti-Apple. Keep up the good work…somewhere else.