iPhone 3G drives AT&T's quarter, outselling Storm four to one

[AppleInsider]

While AT&T on Wednesday credited sales of 1.9 million iPhone 3Gs for helping to drive its fiscal fourth-quarter results, rival carrier Verizon won't tell how many BlackBerry Storms were sold in its first quarter on the market.

Today AT&T announced full-year earnings per share of $2.16, up from $1.94 for 2007. *The Dallas-based telecom giant posted $0.41 earnings per share (EPS) for the fourth quarter, attributing it directly to its partnership with Apple.

"Fourth-quarter EPS reflects the success of AT&T's iPhone 3G launch," the company said in a statement. *AT&T activated 4.3 million iPhone 3G devices in the second half of 2008 nationwide, including 1.9 million in the fourth quarter. *About 40 percent of iPhone activations were for customers switching from a different provider.

"iPhone 3G continues to deliver high-value subscribers with significantly higher average monthly revenues per subscriber and lower churn (subscribers leaving) than AT&T's postpaid subscriber average," the company added.

Meanwhile, New York-based Verizon reported its results Tuesday without details of its iPhone challenger that launched in November. *Where the Research In Motion smartphone was briefly mentioned in the results report, the terms were vague.

"Customers across the country lined up to purchase the new BlackBerry Storm," Verizon's release said. *"The Storm offers customers the reliability of the Verizon Wireless 3G network and the full power of a revolutionary touch-screen, multimedia smartphone with global connectivity."

According to the Wall Street Journal, Verizon activated about 500,000 Storms nationwide. *The iPhone sold almost four times as many in the fourth quarter with 1.9 million units.

Comparing results in each device's first quarter on the market, Apple's iPhone 3G saw five times the number of U.S. activations than the Storm, or 2.4 million.

Earlier this week, RIM and Verizon's eagerness to launch the device before the holiday shopping season was outlined as a possible explanation for the Storm's rocky debut. *Poor reviews and early adopter complaints have hampered the success of the device, which some reports claim was rushed to market before it was ready.

Research In Motion's co-chief executive officer Jim Balsillie said software patches will help improve the Storm, acknowledging flawed software, but argued that bugs in complex phones are the "new reality."

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[iVlad]

"Customers across the country lined up to purchase the new BlackBerry Storm," Verizon's release said. "The Storm offers customers the reliability of the Verizon Wireless 3G network and the full power of a revolutionary touch-screen, multimedia smartphone with global connectivity."

Revolutionary?
I'm sorry that is copyrighted by Apple. Please wait for court date in the mail.

LOL Blackberry is everything but revolutionary.

[GQB]

Apple didn't 'quadruple Storm sales', it 'outsold Storm 4:1'.
They mean the opposite and imply that Apple somehow did the quadrupling for RIM.

[markb]

this part of the article says it all:

"iPhone 3G continues to deliver high-value subscribers with significantly higher average monthly revenues per subscriber and lower churn (subscribers leaving) than AT&T's postpaid subscriber average," the company added.

Of course if you look at the business pages, they have titles like:

ATT profits down on iPhone, costs

and

ATT profits dented by iPhone subsidies.


I guess I am being an idealistic fool going long on apple as there are vast fortunes to be made with constantly shorting the stock.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by GQB

Apple didn't 'quadruple Storm sales', it 'outsold Storm 4:1'.
They mean the opposite and imply that Apple somehow did the quadrupling for RIM.

I read it as if Apple helped the Storm sell more units.

[saarek]

In Rims defence it has to be pointed out that the storm is only one of their phones, as a company they sold one hell of a lot more than 500,000 handsets.

[noirdesir]

Originally Posted by italiankid

4 to 1? I believe the iPhone is in more countries than the Storm. It should sell more.
the Storm sold over 1 million units in just 1.5 mths = a lot.

These two units are probably the best devices on the market right now!

The 1.9m most likely are U.S.-only, as Apple sold 4,363,000 iPhones in total in the last quarter.

[mjtomlin]

Originally Posted by saarek

In Rims defence it has to be pointed out that the storm is only one of their phones, as a company they sold one hell of a lot more than 500,000 handsets.

I'm sure we all understand that. The point of the article is to throw egg on Verizon's face for talking up the Storm as the next iPhone killer.

Personally I just don't understand these sales comparisons? As long as a company can show they are making sales and making profits, what's the point? And how come they are always iPhone-killers? As if their sales won't impact other devices as well. I always thought it was funny that Android was being compared to the iPhone, when it actually competes more with Windows Mobile.

[paxman]

Originally Posted by solipsism

I read it as if Apple helped the Storm sell more units.

Whatever the intention of the original quote I am sure that Apple did in fact help RIM sell more Storms. There must be many people who have heard so much about the touch screen interface and functionality of the iPhone but who are not willing or able to get one. The Storm seems to be a blatant attempt to cash in on a hot idea. The marketing pretty much suggest 'iPhone by RIM'. In a sense the iPhone validates the Storm which otherwise may have seemed too 'different'. That the Storm has turned out to be somewhat of a dud is of course another story.

[Lisamacnewton]

My step bro wanted a Storm for Christmas, the wife actually went out and looked at one. The other 2 guys in his office building (that had them) told him NO. At least not until the battery "issue" was fixed. Seems it tears thru battery life and you have to recharge every time you turn around.....not really good for a traveling sales person.....

So, it seems that Apple isn't the only company to have rocky starts in the smart phone catagory.....

[MacTel]

Originally Posted by italiankid

4 to 1? I believe the iPhone is in more countries than the Storm. It should sell more.
the Storm sold over 1 million units in just 1.5 mths = a lot.

These two units are probably the best devices on the market right now!

It is really funny that this article is comparing to just the Storm as if RIM only makes one handset. Our company only buys curves and that 2 gens back. What about the Pearl and Bold eh? Suddenly it is no longer 4:1.

[RichL]

It's interesting to see that 45% of iPhones are still sold in the US despite the phone being available in over 70 countries.

I'd love to see a break-down per country but I'm guessing that we'll never see accurate figures.

[Rot'nApple]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Research In Motion's co-chief executive officer Jim Balsillie said software patches will help improve the Storm, acknowledging flawed software, but argued that bugs in complex phones are the "new reality."

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

What is it with the term "new reality" when it comes to "bugs" in complex products when companies release ineffective, works almost great, half ass products!?

The other day I was at a Ford dealership and the person in the parts dept. said that 1998 was a great year for Ford products like my SUV Explorer Sport. When I told her I was inconvenienced by 5 RECALLS, she implied that one recall every two years is satisfactory and nobody is perfect. I don't know if she appreciated my answer of my 1987 Toyota Pick-Up with it's NO RECALLS and no major mechanical defects other than wear and tear auto consumables.

However, it seems that todays products functioning as promoted and advertised is a thing of the past. I don't care if it is Apple's Mobile Me, RIM's Storm or Ford's 98 Explorer Sport. Gotta problem, hey 'bugs in complex products are the "new reality." '

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by paxman

Whatever the intention of the original quote I am sure that Apple did in fact help RIM sell more Storms. There must be many people who have heard so much about the touch screen interface and functionality of the iPhone but who are not willing or able to get one. The Storm seems to be a blatant attempt to cash in on a hot idea. The marketing pretty much suggest 'iPhone by RIM'. In a sense the iPhone validates the Storm which otherwise may have seemed too 'different'. That the Storm has turned out to be somewhat of a dud is of course another story.

I'm sure it has. The iPhone has taken the smartphone from a geek and business device, and made it sheik. I don't think the Storm would have been created if not for the success of the iPhone.

Originally Posted by MacTel

It is really funny that this article is comparing to just the Storm as if RIM only makes one handset. Our company only buys curves and that 2 gens back. What about the Pearl and Bold eh? Suddenly it is no longer 4:1.

When you position a phone as an "iPhone killer" then you have to be ready to be directly compared against it.

PS: Has their ever been an <Apple product> killer that actually killed an Apple product?

[acacio]

Originally Posted by solipsism

The iPhone has taken the smartphone from a geek and business device, and made it sheik.

EERRNONSENSE

I'm not sure the iPhone is an Arabian prince: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheikh

Maybe you meant "chic": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chic_(style) ?

Personally, I only have an iPod touch because the iPhone took so long to arrive (in Switzerland) but it's a *spectacular* device and has nothing to do with being chic or not. For those who know me, fashion is the latest of my priorities (unless it's in the form of a gorgeous barely dressed blonde ;-) )

Even my quite good Google Dream Phone (dev G1) struggles in comparison with the iPhone and form all I've seen from the BB, the iPhone UI is still the best in all categories. *That* makes it the best, not "sheikness"^W"chicness".

[melgross]

Originally Posted by italiankid

4 to 1? I believe the iPhone is in more countries than the Storm. It should sell more.
the Storm sold over 1 million units in just 1.5 mths = a lot.

These two units are probably the best devices on the market right now!

Where did you come up with more than 1 million sales for the Storm? Numbers I'm seeing are from 400,000 to 500,000.

[Roos24]

Originally Posted by solipsism

When you position a phone as an "iPhone killer" then you have to be ready to be directly compared against it.

PS: Has their ever been an <Apple product> killer that actually killed an Apple product?

I agree. And now that all major phone makers have had their chance to show us their "iPhone Killer" I think it is safe to say that the only company that can kill the iPhone is Apple

[melgross]

Originally Posted by saarek

In Rims defence it has to be pointed out that the storm is only one of their phones, as a company they sold one hell of a lot more than 500,000 handsets.

But RIM is comparing the Storm to the iPhone. It is their direct competitor.

But if you want to be really fair, while I dn't know offhand what RIM's total sales for this quarter are, last quarter, the iPhone outsold ALL of Rims phones around the world. And Rim competes about everywhere the iPhone does, and even in some places where the iPhone doesn't yet.

So, we can look at it that way too.

[mark2005]

Originally Posted by solipsism

PS: Has their ever been an <Apple product> killer that actually killed an Apple product?

One can argue that the Palm Pilot (and its successors Palm III, Palm V, and Palm VII, along with Handspring) effectively killed off any return of the Newton. (I say "argue" for I recognize that Jobs may have killed the Newton for other reasons as well.)

[melgross]

Originally Posted by MacTel

It is really funny that this article is comparing to just the Storm as if RIM only makes one handset. Our company only buys curves and that 2 gens back. What about the Pearl and Bold eh? Suddenly it is no longer 4:1.

As I've already replied, at least for last quarter, where we have the numbers for both companies (if someone knows this quarter's figures for Rim, please post them), the iPhone sold better than ALL of Rims phones around the world. Rim is all over the place, as Apple almost is.

That says something, doesn't it, about their other models as well?

[mark2005]

Originally Posted by melgross

Where did you come up with more than 1 million sales for the Storm? Numbers I'm seeing are from 400,000 to 500,000.

Engadget is reporting that Verizon subsequently said it sold 1M Storms between Nov 21 and the "end of January."

I know, it's not the end of January yet...

[melgross]

Originally Posted by Rot'nApple

What is it with the term "new reality" when it comes to "bugs" in complex products when companies release ineffective, works almost great, half ass products!?

The other day I was at a Ford dealership and the person in the parts dept. said that 1998 was a great year for Ford products like my SUV Explorer Sport. When I told her I was inconvenienced by 5 RECALLS, she implied that one recall every two years is satisfactory and nobody is perfect. I don't know if she appreciated my answer of my 1987 Toyota Pick-Up with it's NO RECALLS and no major mechanical defects other than wear and tear auto consumables.

However, it seems that todays products functioning as promoted and advertised is a thing of the past. I don't care if it is Apple's Mobile Me, RIM's Storm or Ford's 98 Explorer Sport. Gotta problem, hey 'bugs in complex products are the "new reality." '

Toyota has had plenty of recalls over that time period, if not for your model.

They are now in the middle of the worlds largest recall ever done.

[mark2005]

Originally Posted by melgross

As I've already replied, at least for last quarter, where we have the numbers for both companies (if someone knows this quarter's figures for Rim, please post them), the iPhone sold better than ALL of Rims phones around the world. Rim is all over the place, as Apple almost is.

That says something, doesn't it, about their other models as well?

RIMM's fiscal year is offset by one month from AAPL. So their comparable quarter will be Nov-Jan, and they will report in mid-Feb.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by acacio

EERRNONSENSE

I'm not sure the iPhone is an Arabian prince: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheikh

Maybe you meant "chic": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chic_(style) ?

Personally, I only have an iPod touch because the iPhone took so long to arrive (in Switzerland) but it's a *spectacular* device and has nothing to do with being chic or not. For those who know me, fashion is the latest of my priorities (unless it's in the form of a gorgeous barely dressed blonde ;-) )

Even my quite good Google Dream Phone (dev G1) struggles in comparison with the iPhone and form all I've seen from the BB, the iPhone UI is still the best in all categories. *That* makes it the best, not "sheikness"^W"chicness".

Hehe I don't know what I was thinking. I'm allowed to make a "foe paw" every now and then.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by mark2005

One can argue that the Palm Pilot (and its successors Palm III, Palm V, and Palm VII, along with Handspring) effectively killed off any return of the Newton. (I say "argue" for I recognize that Jobs may have killed the Newton for other reasons as well.)

The interesting thing about that, as I remember from back then, was with the 2.1 version of the OS, that came out around that time, the Newton had just about solved its problems with handwriting recognition. I know some people who still use them.

In fact, sales were rising seriously for the device when Jobs killed it.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by mark2005

Engadget is reporting that Verizon subsequently said it sold 1M Storms between Nov 21 and the "end of January."

I know, it's not the end of January yet...

Then they are the only ones reporting that number. We'll have to wait and see if it's correct. I wonder if that includes the high percentage of returns, which, in the beginning were around 40%, and even now, with many software bugs fixed, is admitted to be about 10%, a very high number?

[melgross]

Originally Posted by mark2005

RIMM's fiscal year is offset by one month from AAPL. So their comparable quarter will be Nov-Jan, and they will report in mid-Feb.

Good to know. I don't really follow them.

[cameronj]

Originally Posted by Rot'nApple

The other day I was at a Ford dealership and the person in the parts dept. said that 1998 was a great year for Ford products like my SUV Explorer Sport. When I told her I was inconvenienced by 5 RECALLS, she implied that one recall every two years is satisfactory and nobody is perfect. I don't know if she appreciated my answer of my 1987 Toyota Pick-Up with it's NO RECALLS and no major mechanical defects other than wear and tear auto consumables.

Consider that part of that, probably a large part, is higher sensitivity of the general public to dangerous failures that occur in only a tiny percentage of instances. So if a seat belt buckle fails in 1 out of 10,000 cars, maybe in the past it would never have been discovered. But today, the forensics looks that much closer at any accident and puts corporate feet to the fire, resulting in more recalls. What specifically were those 5 recalls for?

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by Lisamacnewton

So, it seems that Apple isn't the only company to have rocky starts in the smart phone catagory.....

What 'rocky start?' Have you owned one from Day 1? I have, and had few, if any issues with the iPhone. It did everything it said it would do, well. Period.

[arteckx]

Originally Posted by melgross

Then they are the only ones reporting that number. We'll have to wait and see if it's correct. I wonder if that includes the high percentage of returns, which, in the beginning were around 40%, and even now, with many software bugs fixed, is admitted to be about 10%, a very high number?

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

"Customers across the country lined up to purchase the new BlackBerry Storm," Verizon's release said.

...and then had to wait in yet another line to take them back.

[IQ78]

Originally Posted by mark2005

One can argue that the Palm Pilot (and its successors Palm III, Palm V, and Palm VII, along with Handspring) effectively killed off any return of the Newton. (I say "argue" for I recognize that Jobs may have killed the Newton for other reasons as well.)

Palm's realization that a PDA must fit into a shirt pocket, killed the Newton. A PDA (smartphone) has to easily fit into a pocket. Palm knew this, Sculley didn't. Bye-bye Newton.

[Dlux]

Originally Posted by saarek

In Rims defence it has to be pointed out that the storm is only one of their phones, as a company they sold one hell of a lot more than 500,000 handsets.

In Apple's defense it has to be pointed out that the iPhone is only one of their products; as a company they sold one hell of a lot more than 1,900,000 units.

[Cubert]

"Customers across the country lined up to purchase the new BlackBerry Storm"

And they lined up en masse to return them, too.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by Cubert

"Customers across the country lined up to purchase the new BlackBerry Storm"

And they lined up en masse to return them, too.

Arteckx beat you to the punch.

[mark2005]

Originally Posted by MacTel

It is really funny that this article is comparing to just the Storm as if RIM only makes one handset. Our company only buys curves and that 2 gens back. What about the Pearl and Bold eh? Suddenly it is no longer 4:1.

Everyone knows that RIM makes many handsets. This article is comparing iPhone to only the Storm because the Storm was trumpeted by Verizon and RIM as the iPhone-killer. Other Blackberries were not considered as iPhone killers because they are not touch-screen phones.

By the way, I believe, in the previous quarter, Apple sold as many iPhones as all the RIM phones sold combined. Given that it was iPhone 3G's launch quarter, this will likely not happen again until the next iPhone model launch.

[THT]

In a way, the Storm is doing its job even at 400k unit sales. I'm sure one of the objectives for Verizon was to slow ATT defections for the iPhone, and since it sold a non-trivial number, it did part of its job. Some high percentage of that 400k were Verizon diehards and RIM fans, but I'm sure it convince some to stay rather then switch to ATT.

It could have meant the different between Apple selling 4.6m iPhones instead of 4.4m iPhones. Same thing with the T-Mobile G1 and the Sprint/Samsung Instinct.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by IQ78

Palm's realization that a PDA must fit into a shirt pocket, killed the Newton. A PDA (smartphone) has to easily fit into a pocket. Palm knew this, Sculley didn't. Bye-bye Newton.

That's not really true.

The Newton was much more than was the Palm Pilot.

The Newton was a full fledged computer. Apple was one of the original developers, and owners of the ARM technology, which was developed dorectly for the urpose of powering it.

That Newton, as a full fledged computer, was much larger, and heavier than the Palm, but it could do so much more.

It was also twice as expensive. In those days, a $1,000 device was EXPENSIVE! The pilot was half the cost. Simplicity has its benefits.

Lastly, until near to the end when jobs killed it, the handwriting recognition was with its own problems. Apple was doing so much more with the idea than Palm did with it on the Palm, that it took until 2.1 to get it really right.

ALL of these things killed it. Possibly the biggest thing though, was the fact that as Scully's pet project, it would be one of the first things killed by Jobs when he came back.

But when you now look at the newest, hottest category of computer, you see it is the NetBook.

New technology has made this cheap, but to a certain extent, it validates the size category of machine that the Newton first represented.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by THT

In a way, the Storm is doing its job even at 400k unit sales. I'm sure one of the objectives for Verizon was to slow ATT defections for the iPhone, and since it sold a non-trivial number, it did part of its job. Some high percentage of that 400k were Verizon diehards and RIM fans, but I'm sure it convince some to stay rather then switch to ATT.

It could have meant the different between Apple selling 4.6m iPhones instead of 4.4m iPhones. Same thing with the T-Mobile G1 and the Sprint/Samsung Instinct.

Of course, except that the Instinct isn't a smartphone at all, and Sprint is really hurting.

[MitchStr]

Here is where it gets even better for Apple and AT&T. The 1.9 million units only represents the number of phones they sold and activated. It does not cover all the Apple iPhone 3G gift cards that anyone purchased but did not redeem before 12/31/08. I strongly suspect that Apple sold a large number of phone gift cards that were not redeemed and hence the phones activated until after January 1st.

My child rushed down to the Apple store on 12/26/08, but I suspect a large number of folks did not redeem their gift card for a phone until their holidays were over.

A iPhone 3G gift card could be purchased in any denomination and did not have to be used to actually purchase a phone, but I suspect a high percentage of those cards were used for just that purpose by the redeemers.

Does anyone think the number of gift cards sold could have pushed the ratio of iPhones to Storms sold to 6:1 or higher?

Just a thought!

[melgross]

Here's an interesting article by actual patent attorneys on the possible Apple/Palm dispute. It holds for other competitors as well. Good reading:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/a...epth-analysis/