Google books iPhone-friendly; Amazon Kindle books next?

[AppleInsider]

Google has made its online catalog of books available in an iPhone-optimized web viewer -- but Amazon is dropping hints it will expand its previously exclusive Kindle e-books to support other mobile devices.

On Friday, Google launched a mobile Google Book Search with finger-ready navigation for iPhone and iPod touch devices as well as handsets using its own Android mobile operating system.

The move gives iPhone owners access to about 1.5 million books available in the US (and about 500,000 international books) in the public domain either through expired copyrights or open licenses, all without having to download proprietary apps.

Google's Book Search team says the feat of optimizing the collection was accomplished by using automatic text scanning to reformat the books for the small screens instead of using the raw page images. Some texts produced in difficult-to-scan formats aren't immediately available but should be added as technology improves.

The feature is a challenge to App Store software like Classics and Stanza that also take advantage of the public domain to fill their libraries but which have custom interfaces for bookmarking and navigating texts.



Not to be left out, Amazon also hinted just before the launch that it would expand the Kindle format for e-books beyond its proprietary Kindle reader to a range of different devices.

"We are excited to make Kindle books available on a range of mobile phones," Amazon spokesman Drew Herdener tells the New York Times. "We are working on that now."

Which phones will get the copy-protected books aren't known. However, the format has been built from the ground up for downloads and for viewing on relatively large screens like that of the dedicated Amazon reader, making iPhones and iPods possible (though far from certain) candidates. Paid electronic reading has become more commonplace on the Apple devices but has been curbed partly by a limited range of books to buy; Amazon, in turn, offers about 230,000 tiles, most of which are modern and are more likely to include bestsellers.

When any cellphone-ready version of the Kindle standard would appear is just as much of a mystery -- though the company is slated to hold an event on Monday, February 9th that should introduce the iPod-like second-generation Kindle and may serve as a venue for other book-related announcements.

[GregAlexander]

It'd be great to have Amazon ebooks on the iPhone.
Let's hope.

[surferfromuk]

Apple are missing a trick by not releasing an iPod Touch with a 7" screen.

If they sit around doing nothing and try and figure this thing out too long they'll end up with another Apple TV on their hands...

Apple - YOUR Netbook equivelent & e-Book 'Kindle Killer' a.k.a reader = iPod Touch with 7" screen.

Not hard really - won't eat Macbook sales, won't eat iPod or iPhone sales.

Make it so!


(Can you see how I'm already using competive language 'kindle killer' - Amazon are on the verge of wining something big with Kindle - it may take them another iteration to get it right but they are learning..)

[elliots11]

Anybody know if there's a way to mark your place in these google books? I moved it to my home page and I'm ready to rock (or read) and whenever I bounce to email or Safari and come back, I have to find where I left off

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by surferfromuk

Apple are missing a trick by not releasing an iPod Touch with a 7" screen.

If they sit around doing nothing and try and figure this thing out too long they'll end up with another Apple TV on their hands...

Apple - YOUR Netbook equivelent & e-Book 'Kindle Killer' a.k.a reader = iPod Touch with 7" screen.

Not hard really - won't eat Macbook sales, won't eat iPod or iPhone sales.

Now that's an excellent idea- I would only add to it to include bluetooth.
I've seen many on the subway using the Kindle and the Sony and they appear very cool.
Imagine the mating of an touch screen iPod with a reader and a netbook- man is that ever appealing.

[icibaqu]

Originally Posted by elliots11

Anybody know if there's a way to mark your place in these google books? I moved it to my home page and I'm ready to rock (or read) and whenever I bounce to email or Safari and come back, I have to find where I left off

yeah i just checked that. annoying.


Then again, I like to read and really find the entire concept of ebooks to be really just unappealing. I don't want to read a book on my iPhone? This google books reader gives me 9 pages at a time! That's a lot of scrolling. I think the Kindle has a better design as an ebook reader, but mostly because it slighly mimics the feel of a book... slightly.

I get a psychic pleasure from holding a book, physically seeing how many pages I have left, having shelves with books on them, being able to sort through my shelf and pick a book out for a friend, flip around to different parts of a book i have read/want to read, scope peoples covers when someone is reading a book, etc. etc. etc. I mean, what, am I supposed to say "oh, you'll really enjoy this thumb drive! I've got 10 books on it!

[jackthemac]

Originally Posted by surferfromuk

Apple are missing a trick by not releasing an iPod Touch with a 7" screen.

If they sit around doing nothing and try and figure this thing out too long they'll end up with another Apple TV on their hands...

Apple - YOUR Netbook equivalent & e-Book 'Kindle Killer' a.k.a reader = iPod Touch with 7" screen.

Not hard really - won't eat Macbook sales, won't eat iPod or iPhone sales.

Make it so!

Originally Posted by teckstud

Now that's an excellent idea- I would only add to it to include bluetooth.
I've seen many on the subway using the Kindle and the Sony and they appear very cool.
Imagine the mating of an touch screen iPod with a reader and a netbook- man is that ever appealing.

As MacUser mag said recently, 'nobody will do Netbooks right until Apple do it. Just wait'.

I hope we don't have to wait too long, but let's face it, I'm not going to go and buy an EEPC out of frustration, and neither will the other MacFaithful. When Apple do bring out a Netbook (or Newtbook as I appropriately keep mistyping it) you know it will be the most gorgeous bit of kit out there. All the other netbooks will suddenly look like Zunes.

Jobs says he isn't interested in paperless books because "no-one reads anymore". True or not, if and when the Newtbook arrives (I'm going to run with this) I doubt it will have Kindle-like abilities - for a start the screen technology is different.

[dasein]

Originally Posted by icibaqu

I get a psychic pleasure from holding a book, physically seeing how many pages I have left, having shelves with books on them, being able to sort through my shelf and pick a book out for a friend, flip around to different parts of a book i have read/want to read, scope peoples covers when someone is reading a book, etc. etc. etc. I mean, what, am I supposed to say "oh, you'll really enjoy this thumb drive! I've got 10 books on it!

I agree. I often wonder, though, if this is because we were raised on physical books. I do enjoy reading dailies online. It's just something about a book you look forward to dealing with for more than a day or so that wants to be in a non digital form. We'll see, I suppose, as younger people start using these devices more and more.

[mactoids]

I enjoy the experience of reading a "real" book, too. But I still like the convenience and portability of eBooks and use the excellent Stanza app on my iPhone.

This Google mobile books site is pretty nice but seems like quite a few typos in the text. Admittedly, I only visited a couple of random books, so maybe it's not an issue. It is nice that you can tap a paragraph to see the original scan image if you run into something that doesn't seem correct. That's pretty cool.

The lack of bookmarking, as others mention, would be a real liability. That's basic and expected from a user perspective - it's a freaking book, for goodness sake. Maybe that feature exists but its not immediately obvious? I've only just begun playing with it, so not sure. I'd hate to have to go to Contents each time to navigate to get close to where I left off.

More eBook availability = a good thing. Many of us may prefer to curl up with a good recreational book in "physical" form - but there are definitely references, guides, educational material and other text that many people would find helpful to carry around in electronic format.

[cwfrederick]

why do we keep hearing about the ridiculous kindle? has anyone ever bought one? that stupid thing is never going to be a success, and on top of that, it's hideous.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by cwfrederick

why do we keep hearing about the ridiculous kindle? has anyone ever bought one? that stupid thing is never going to be a success, and on top of that, it's hideous.

I've seen one. They are certainly selling, but the problem is that they probably aren't selling a whole lot of them, given how Amazon doesn't give any hard figures. If Amazon sold hundreds of thousands of them, I'd think they'd be tooting their horn. Amazon is a lot more stingy with their sales figures than even Apple is. For example, Amazon said they sold more items last year holiday quarter than the year before holiday quarter, but they didn't actually release the equivalent dollar figures, so they could have sold more smaller ticket items, meaning they can have a decline in actual revenue but still trumpet it as a gain in a press release.

[DavidCarnicelli]

Originally Posted by dasein

I agree. I often wonder, though, if this is because we were raised on physical books. I do enjoy reading dailies online. It's just something about a book you look forward to dealing with for more than a day or so that wants to be in a non digital form. We'll see, I suppose, as younger people start using these devices more and more.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/...ure-e-book.ars

Great piece on Ars Technica (linked from Daring Fireball) on eBooks. The experience John Siracusa outlines at the end is exactly the same as mine as are the reasons for preferring eBooks over traditional print.

It's worth a try. And when you get used to it, it's hard to go back.

My only problem with eBooks right now, as the piece outlines, is that the DRM and device-to-device portability is completely ridiculous.

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

I've seen one. They are certainly selling, but the problem is that they probably aren't selling a whole lot of them, given how Amazon doesn't give any hard figures. If Amazon sold hundreds of thousands of them, I'd think they'd be tooting their horn. Amazon is a lot more stingy with their sales figures than even Apple is. For example, Amazon said they sold more items last year holiday quarter than the year before holiday quarter, but they didn't actually release the equivalent dollar figures, so they could have sold more smaller ticket items, meaning they can have a decline in actual revenue but still trumpet it as a gain in a press release.

You mean kinda like the way Apple says AppleTV sales have increased three-fold? But what are the actual figures? How many of the sales are refurbished, is it cutting into Apple's overall profits, etc., etc., etc?

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by cwfrederick

why do we keep hearing about the ridiculous kindle? has anyone ever bought one? that stupid thing is never going to be a success, and on top of that, it's hideous.

Does anybody even read a book anymore? I wonder if Sarah Palin owns one?

[Jbach67]

I listen to audio books on my ipod touch a lot. But audio books take longer, and cost more than Kindle ebooks. As an experiment, I've tried to read The Prince (free) using Stanza, but the hassle factor of the small screen (not just harder to read, but slower because you need to change pages more often) makes it unattractive for ebooks. That's why I had hoped Apple would make a touch screen netbook model that could have basic net connectivity but also instantly be the best ebook reader out there. A lot of other functions - but what Kindle has right now (not the touch screen) is a big enough screen, crisp looking epaper, and most importantly long battery life and a library you can access anywhere, not just at wifi hot spots.

I think there would be a market for a 9 inch screen touch, made thin and light with long battery life. A great game machine, a Kindle killer for whatever market that turns out to be, and more internet functionality than the touch - which I find my self not using so much for internet because it eats the frigging battery on wifi. But it can't be as powerful as the weakest macbook, or it would cost too much. But great for music, games, and audiobooks (and videos) and still incredibly portable. For a book/internet device, I'd give up a bit on being able to slide it into my running shorts pocket.

Anyway, I'll be looking hard at the new kindle next week to see if it does a great job on just one of the things a big touch could have done.

[Benjer]

Originally Posted by cwfrederick

why do we keep hearing about the ridiculous kindle? has anyone ever bought one? that stupid thing is never going to be a success, and on top of that, it's hideous.

Originally Posted by JeffDM

I've seen one. They are certainly selling, but the problem is that they probably aren't selling a whole lot of them, given how Amazon doesn't give any hard figures.

It seems that that while there aren't a whole lot of early adopters of the Kindle, those who have them really like them. The problem is that at present, they are expensive enough, there's not (relatively speaking) enough books and media you can read on them, and there's enough mystery about them (and how to use them) to prevent widespread adoption. So, people dismiss the Kindle as a fad for the moment. Meanwhile, Amazon is quietly improving their device to drive the price down and add more features, while constantly adding books more people would want to the Kindle library.

Hmmm...sound familiar?

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by Benjer

It seems that that while there aren't a whole lot of early adopters of the Kindle, those who have them really like them. The problem is that at present, they are expensive enough, there's not (relatively speaking) enough books and media you can read on them, and there's enough mystery about them (and how to use them) to prevent widespread adoption. So, people dismiss the Kindle as a fad for the moment. Meanwhile, Amazon is quietly improving their device to drive the price down and add more features, while constantly adding books more people would want to the Kindle library.

Hmmm...sound familiar?

If you're comparing it to the iPod model, Apple has released actual sales figures of the iPod all along.

Originally Posted by teckstud

You mean kinda like the way Apple says AppleTV sales have increased three-fold? But what are the actual figures? How many of the sales are refurbished, is it cutting into Apple's overall profits, etc., etc., etc?

Sorry, I had iPod in mind when I was thinking of it. Those and Macs are presented in clear numbers, though they don't break down how many of each model are made other than notebook vs. desktop.

Originally Posted by DavidCarnicelli

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/...ure-e-book.ars

Great piece on Ars Technica (linked from Daring Fireball) on eBooks. The experience John Siracusa outlines at the end is exactly the same as mine as are the reasons for preferring eBooks over traditional print.

It's worth a try. And when you get used to it, it's hard to go back.

My only problem with eBooks right now, as the piece outlines, is that the DRM and device-to-device portability is completely ridiculous.

The fact that you had to buy an expensive proprietary device doesn't help. I can easily buy 40 books for the cost of one reader, and those books don't need a reader to work. The fact that the books are largely the same price as the paper version isn't helping either. And I can resell or give away a paper book, I haven't seen anything that suggests this is true of any eBook platform. The publishing and distribution costs should be lower for ebooks too. It's a total cost shift to the consumer.

The iTunes music model was different, where computers could play the music, and you can burn CDs to play in anything with a CD player, you didn't have to buy a specific brand device to use the music. My sisters had even bought iTunes tracks for a couple years without having had to buy an iPod to enjoy the music.

[Slewis]

Originally Posted by MacOldTimer

<snip>

Edit.
You are reading this right now and the Kindle has internet access to many news, email and blogging sites.

I read about 3-4 books per year (while travelling) but also read ALL of my news and tech info on the Net. Every morning with a mug of coffee I read te morning headlines from all my favorite sites.

I'd do it on the iPhone but I don't want to scroll 80 times to read 1 article.
Isn't that READING?

No, þe net just consists of pretty pictures & video wiþ no closed captioning, text is just there as filler so þere's not so much white space or someþing like þat.

Sebastian

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by Slewis

No, þe net just consists of pretty pictures & video wiþ no closed captioning, text is just there as filler so þere's not so much white space or someþing like þat.

How about you take your quixotic character crusade somewhere else instead. It looks like a reinvented theta, why not just use a theta instead of some lame rework? It's really quite unnecessary, if it's been continually rejected for several centuries, then some lone Quixote isn't going to change that.

[jackthemac]

Originally Posted by cwfrederick

why do we keep hearing about the ridiculous kindle? has anyone ever bought one?.

I've seen one, but I can't buy one because I'm in the UK.

Originally Posted by cwfrederick

Tthat stupid thing is never going to be a success.

A very confident conclusion to reach so early in this product's life. I remember reading that MP3 players wouldn't catch on. Didn't IBM reckon the global market for PCs was three ?

Originally Posted by cwfrederick

and on top of that, it's hideous.

No it isn't. It's actually quite elegant. Our opinions are subjective, but I don't think it deserves the epithet "hideous".

[Slewis]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

How about you take your quixotic character crusade somewhere else instead.

Already have, one other forum before this one, but I'll keep it here whenever I finish my custom DVORAK-based keyboard layout in Ukelele. TypeIt4Me just doesn't cut it, sadly.

Þe þorn shall rise þenceforþ!

(Admittedly it truly is beautiful typographically, odd that it fell out of usage being replaced by "y" and eventually "th".)

Originally Posted by MacOldTimer

What? Text is there as filler?

Maybe you should go back to the 14th century as your signature says. In 2009 text is on the net to inform.

CNN's text can't be called filler.
Your text (or nonsensical gibberish) on the most part fit your description.

Perhaps I should have added sarcasm tags for your benefit. But it probably would've been pointless since "nobody" reads anymore.

I'm pretty sure CNN text is just filler though, hell even their news channel is just filled with filler, the number of times they repeat themselves in a night is astounding.

Sebastian

[stonefree]

Originally Posted by jackthemac

No it isn't. It's actually quite elegant. Our opinions are subjective, but I don't think it deserves the epithet "hideous".

The Kindle makes the Zune look good in comparison.

Maybe eBooks will be mainstream in the future, but I think they're garbage right now. The readers are incredible expensive. ($250-300 - no thanks!). If anything the Kindle should be a loss leader similar to consoles that make their money selling games. I haven't seen one in person, but the pictures of light black text on grey page don't make me want to see one. And eBook don't seem to be much cheaper than real books. And you can resell or give away a real book but not an ebook.

[rtdunham]

Originally Posted by icibaqu

I get a psychic pleasure from...being able to sort through my shelf and pick a book out for a friend... I mean, what, am I supposed to say "oh, you'll really enjoy this thumb drive! I've got 10 books on it!

I know. Imagine if that had happened to records and CDs and prints from the photo lab: what would we be supposed to do, share our music and pictures electronically?

[rtdunham]

Originally Posted by mactoids

...This Google mobile books site is pretty nice but seems like quite a few typos in the text....

i found the pages below (be sure to scroll all the way to the bottom of the image) minutes after i began searching for a book i'd read as a kid. I'd hoped it might be out of copyright and thus available. Instead, i found an early 20th-century review with these amusing images.

I didn't notice the "typo" ("thumbo?") in the lower right corner of the first page until i scrolled down to the second page. I guess if you're manually scanning a bazillion pages you get careless once in a while. At least, I hope this isn't characteristic of the product.

[rtdunham]

Originally Posted by cwfrederick

why do we keep hearing about the ridiculous kindle? has anyone ever bought one? that stupid thing is never going to be a success, and on top of that, it's hideous.

it's risky to assume your usage practices apply to the larger universe. As Marshall McLuhan observed, "whoever it was discovered water, you can bet it wasn't a fish." It's easy to judge the ocean by what's in our little fish tank. But it can lead to misjudgements. The fact that you (or those you know) haven't bought one isn't sufficient data.

According to Time Magazine (summer '08): “On a title-by-title basis, of the 130,000 titles available on Kindle and in physical form, Kindle sales now make up over 12% of sales for those titles."

And from Forbes, 12/08: "Forrester Research... roughly estimates that around 400,000 Kindles have been sold in all--a small number in the world of consumer electronics, but around 30% more than Sony's... competing Reader device."

It's true that number can't compare to iPhone numbers--not by a long stretch. But the cellphone market had been around for a long time and developed its following slowly too. So it's not quite fair to compare the numbers.

[rtdunham]

Originally Posted by Slewis

Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
Sebastian

þhat's just þilly! (but funny, too) Loving that era as you do, will you bring back þhe plague next?!

[DavidCarnicelli]

Originally Posted by dasein

I agree. I often wonder, though, if this is because we were raised on physical books. I do enjoy reading dailies online. It's just something about a book you look forward to dealing with for more than a day or so that wants to be in a non digital form. We'll see, I suppose, as younger people start using these devices more and more.

Originally Posted by JeffDM

If you're comparing it to the iPod model, Apple has released actual sales figures of the iPod all along.



Sorry, I had iPod in mind when I was thinking of it. Those and Macs are presented in clear numbers, though they don't break down how many of each model are made other than notebook vs. desktop.



The fact that you had to buy an expensive proprietary device doesn't help. I can easily buy 40 books for the cost of one reader, and those books don't need a reader to work. The fact that the books are largely the same price as the paper version isn't helping either. And I can resell or give away a paper book, I haven't seen anything that suggests this is true of any eBook platform. The publishing and distribution costs should be lower for ebooks too. It's a total cost shift to the consumer.

The iTunes music model was different, where computers could play the music, and you can burn CDs to play in anything with a CD player, you didn't have to buy a specific brand device to use the music. My sisters had even bought iTunes tracks for a couple years without having had to buy an iPod to enjoy the music.

Except I've never bought a device specifically to read books. I had a Palm Pilot. Now I have an iPhone. I bought these devices for other reasons. The fact that I could read on them was a huge bonus. If you read the article I linked to on Ars Technica, you'd see that this is the premise. People already own devices that are great for reading. Why not give it a try?

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by DavidCarnicelli

Except I've never bought a device specifically to read books. I had a Palm Pilot. Now I have an iPhone. I bought these devices for other reasons. The fact that I could read on them was a huge bonus. If you read the article I linked to on Ars Technica, you'd see that this is the premise. People already own devices that are great for reading. Why not give it a try?

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to try. This brings up a different issue. The screen on the devices you mention too small for me, I can't stand to read lilliputian text for long periods of time. The reading that I do on a pocket device is for only short intervals. I do have one program on there, but it's only for times I'm really desperate to pass the time, and that has not happened yet.

[Slewis]

[ed: removed the offtopic archaic silliness, the web has better places for this]

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by elliots11

Anybody know if there's a way to mark your place in these google books? I moved it to my home page and I'm ready to rock (or read) and whenever I bounce to email or Safari and come back, I have to find where I left off

While inconvenient at the moment, I don't think it is a big issue. It seems to me that it would be very simple to create an App Store app that would access this site (using the SDK's WebKit access), save your page location and zoom (the same way making an iPhone homescreen bookmark does), and perhaps even other bookmarkable features (like a highlighter or special marker to indicate the line you last read).

[paxman]

Originally Posted by jackthemac

Jobs says he isn't interested in paperless books because "no-one reads anymore". True or not, if and when the Newtbook arrives (I'm going to run with this) I doubt it will have Kindle-like abilities - for a start the screen technology is different.

Exactly - there may or may not be a netbook, you may or may not be able to read e-books on the iPhone / iTouch, but it will be a far cry from a dedicated device because the screen is different. Period.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by MacOldTimer

You will never get a digital book reader from Apple that is of any use.

Apple cannot do background.

Imagine being 200 pages into your favorite book and your phone rings.

BANG. Your book is gone.

After conversation you go back to reading your book and have to find the page you were on and start all over again.

It will be safe for copy write laws because Apple can't copy and paste.

Do you actually believe the stuff you write or are being paid to come on this site to push FUD? Not allowing 3rd-party apps to run in the background does not mean that apps can't save information regarding your lastet setup/position. I take it you don't own an iPhone or a Touch.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by MacOldTimer

You will never get a digital book reader from Apple that is of any use.

Apple cannot do background.

Imagine being 200 pages into your favorite book and your phone rings.

BANG. Your book is gone.

After conversation you go back to reading your book and have to find the page you were on and start all over again.

Since you don't seem to have actually used this device for any meaningful length of time, I'll tell you that you're just flat out wrong. iPhone software is allowed to save state before it switches away and remember when it comes back. Maybe it's the lesser software that forgets. Palm did it this way too, I can exit a program and come back later, and it's like I never left.

[vinea]

Originally Posted by MacOldTimer

You will never get a digital book reader from Apple that is of any use.

Apple cannot do background.

Imagine being 200 pages into your favorite book and your phone rings.

BANG. Your book is gone.

After conversation you go back to reading your book and have to find the page you were on and start all over again.

Too bad this isn't true. I've read a dozen books on my iPod from Webscriptions. For one thing, it doesn't keep my wife up if i decide to read a chapter with the lights off. For another, it takes very little energy from the iPhone on a long plane ride. And if i get bored somewhere like a doctor's office.

As far as Amazon goes...unless I can get the books to work on my laptop and iPhone it's a no sale. There's also no way I'm buying a crappy designed kindle. If I actually shell out money for a dedicated ebook it's going to be an irex. It's just a tad pricey. Or maybe a closeout on last year's Sony. Which is a heck of a lot cheaper than a Kindle.

But what the heck...I carry an iphone everywhere. It may be a sub-optimal reader but it beats yet another device to lug around and maybe lose.

[hill60]

I've found that in Stanza you can adjust the text size to be larger than that found in a book.

You also don't need an external light source.

And as has been pointed out before iPhone applications can save their state when closed, when reopened it's at exactly the same place, just like emails and a lot of other things.

[GregAlexander]

I know, I know... don't feed the trolls ... damn...

Originally Posted by MacOldTimer

The application must be written to save the "spot" you were at.
This is only recenty being done because Apple can't deliver background apps (3rd party) to keep running.
So Apple is once again is making the developers change their apps for the iPhones software short comings.

Apps have done that from day 1, if they wanted. It's not a new feature.

Oh, and all developers have to work within what a device can or can't do. Unfortunately every thing in the world has it's limits, which we work within.

Originally Posted by MacOldTimer

Apple has over promised and under delivered from day 1 of the iPhone.

Apple promised that background apps and push would be available in September 2008 not 2009 on the next iPhone).
Now they're giving us what they "think" we need.

Actually I find they under promise usually, but they do let hype take over (they want it to). Yeah they occasionally over promise.

But Apple NEVER promised background apps.. think you're leaping at shadows here - they did promise a push solution as you say.

Originally Posted by MacOldTimer

I can't wait to be rid of both my iPhones and sell them on E-Bay to some dumb ass Apple Sheep for 4 times what they are worth.

How much you want? Let me know.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by MacOldTimer

Give me a break JeffDM. You don't actually believe the crap you just typed.

I own the original iPhone and the 3G.

I really doubt that, given how much you rag on Apple and their products, it seems to be your raison d'être for visiting these forums. I really don't understand why you buy their products if you actually do. It seems to be some form of masochism, if you think that Apple's service and products really are so horrible yet for some reason, you can't stop yourself from buying them.

The application must be written to save the "spot" you were at.

So? Applications must be written to do lots of things. But it can be done, despite what you said in post #36, where you basically said it was impossible without allowing background tasks, but now you've contradicted that with the line that I've quoted. Not getting your story straight in the first place is a little suspicious at best, so no, you are still not convincing me. You're just adding up to be a shifty character.

The programs I use seem to do it extremely well, I really don't see what the problem is. At the very least, this method can be made to work reliably with a number of programs, so getting it right doesn't seem to be a random fluke.

[dyp]

Originally Posted by icibaqu

yeah i just checked that. annoying.


Then again, I like to read and really find the entire concept of ebooks to be really just unappealing. I don't want to read a book on my iPhone? This google books reader gives me 9 pages at a time! That's a lot of scrolling. I think the Kindle has a better design as an ebook reader, but mostly because it slighly mimics the feel of a book... slightly.

I get a psychic pleasure from holding a book, physically seeing how many pages I have left, having shelves with books on them, being able to sort through my shelf and pick a book out for a friend, flip around to different parts of a book i have read/want to read, scope peoples covers when someone is reading a book, etc. etc. etc. I mean, what, am I supposed to say "oh, you'll really enjoy this thumb drive! I've got 10 books on it!

For most consumers, reading a book on an iPhone is not going to happen. I'm sure it works for some but it is not the norm.

I think it is great that Google digitized all these books and I hope that they are viewable on the Kindle or other real e-book readers.

[quinney]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

I really doubt that, given how much you rag on Apple and their products, it seems to be your raison d'être for visiting these forums. I really don't understand why you buy their products if you actually do. It seems to be some form of masochism, if you think that Apple's service and products really are so horrible yet for some reason, you can't stop yourself from buying them.

I think his motivation can be deduced from some of his other posts:

Originally Posted by MacOldTimer

It's people like me that pay his paycheck and I've taken a bath on Apple's Stock in the last year. This shows a total lack of respect for the Mac Community.

Enjoy the event from your living room but Apple OWE'S more than this to the end users/buyers, MacWorld and the Stock Holders.

Originally Posted by MacOldTimer

Quartly earnings mean nothing to the stock market (Apple has proved that the last 5 quarters). Apple has dropped 57% (last I checked) and I don't care if Apple make a ton of money. My money is in their stock.

They are making bad choices for the Market and that is what I care about.

Originally Posted by MacOldTimer

As I said in my last posting. Apple is making a TON of money and their stock has dropped in half this year alone (which is supposed to be their year).

I could care less how much money Apple makes. I care about my stock and Apple needs a restructuring from the ground up to make the stock go back up.

5%-10% of the end users care about OSX and 95-100% care about the profit of Apple Stock if they own it. If the amount of Apple users are correct.

I made a bad investment and have lost the chance to write it off in 2008. My mistake, now I either wait it out or sell as 57% of the market has chosen to do.

I'm not an Apple Fan anymore. I own an iPhone and a Dell computer that has more features than the top of the line new MPB and a total cost with shipping and a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard with built in HDMI for $1,300.

It appears to me he is bitter about buying AAPL stock near the top of the market. His exceptional
level of bitterness in today's thread gives the impression that he might have sold near the bottom, January 20th,
and now feels even more chagrined, since the stock has bounced 25% in less than 3 weeks.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by MacOldTimer

I’m bitter (as you’ve diagnosed) at Apple because they have put out nothing but problematic software and hardware for the last 3 years.

Correction: Apple has been rolling out consumer electronics with problems since day one. This is the same for all consumer electronic companies as well as most companies. I've had less issues with my Apple products than with other products, especially over the last 3 years.

This is bad enough but they don’t even acknowledge it. Their PR recover is non existence and they hide behind the walls of Apple denying one problem after another until the point it gets to legal action.

Are you referring to anything in particular?

In the business world businesses don’t have the option of sitting in our Mom’s basement waiting for the 17” MPB to be shipped when they likely have sales people waiting for them if they placed an early order.

Ah, so your current issue is with Apple shipping a machine with problems but with Apple not making a self imposed deadline. Do you have evidence that the delay is from faulty HW and/or SW, and not from a 3rd-party vendor's delay in getting components to Apple?

Same goes for every other problem, Nvidia Graphic Cards, 3G cracks and Network Problem (don’t blame it on AT&T, Apple chose to partner with them knowing the problems), Monitors (numerous problems), Hard Drives, Mobile Vista (still a joke and they are still charging for beta software).

How would partnering with Sprint or Verizon or T-Mobile have been better? T-Mobile would have had to build a 3G network from scratch to support millions of iPhone around the US and both Sprint and Verizon would have had to invest millions in beefing up their infrastructure to support the iPhone data. Verizon would have wanted to charg extra per month to use the Maps app and rthe data package fee would not have been $20 or even $30. Then you have the issues of making two iPhones with two sets of HW and SW, one for CDMA/CDMA2000 and one for GSM/UMTS networks. Except for T-Mobile, but Apple would still have two different HW platforms for T-Mobile USA and the rest of the world as their frequiency is unique among most UMTS networks. Or should have Apple have just tried to sell the iPhone unsubsidized with no carrier assistance, so the phone AND the carrier package is pricey? Exactly what part of those senerios would have helped the stock price? BTW, my experience with AT&T has been phenomenal.

My name is MacOldTimer, not because of age...

Perhaps, but you do sound as if your day job is to sit in a baloncy heckeling muppets.

Both will be gone at the end of my contract or if the Pre takes off as I hope it will.

Good luck with that, and I sinceraly mean that. There is no one device that will fit everyone's needs, especially something as complex as multimedia focused smartphone. If the iPhone has turned out not to be the right product for you, there is nothing wrong with that. Perhaps you will do a little more research before buying the Pre to make sure it is the right product for you, but seems like you are set on it despite never using one so I have a feeling you will be disappointed again.