Palm throws cold water on possible patent battle

[AppleInsider]

The president and chief executive of Palm says his company is more focused on finishing the Pre than worrying about any sort of patent battle with iPhone maker Apple.

According to Electronista, Palm chief Ed Colligan told investors during a conference call that there are no pending legal actions with Apple at the moment concerning the upcoming Palm Pre, noting his company has amassed 1500 patents over 15 years just in case.

Comparing patent disputes to the animal world, Colligan said:

It's like two little porcupines going around, and you don't want to touch each other because you might get stung. You peacefully coexist and everything's OK and you keep working together. We're very respectful about people's intellectual property, we believe we're huge innovators and have been for a lot of years and that this product has an enormous number of innovations in it. If something does happen there, we do have the portfolio, we think to defend ourselves and to be successful doing that. But nothing's happened to date, so we're really just focused on getting the product out the door."
Apple's acting chief Tim Cook insisted he wasn't talking about any specific company when he made his now-famous comment last month, specifically, "We will not stand to have our IP ripped off. We'll use whatever weapons we have at our disposal."

The situation was somewhat escalated when a Palm spokesperson said, "Apple was not the first to do multi-touch," promising a "vigorous" fight should the Palm Pre be challenged in court.

Not long after, Apple was awarded a sprawling 358-page patent covering the touch screen, multi-touch GUI, and other aspects of the iPhone.



Back to the Pre...

Colligan had more to say besides patent issues. The PalmOS will not appear on any new devices as Palm will embrace its new webOS, which will not be licensed to third-party manufacturers. (However, Windows Mobile will still be available for enterprise solutions.)

The Pre will launch with an accompanying applications store, but Palm will also allow programs to be installed independently through third parties, standing in contrast to the iPhone App Store's closed distribution model. Acknowledging the large community of medical professionals who rely on existing Palm devices, Colligan said the availability of medical app Epocrates to the Pre is a top priority. A competing iPhone version is already available.

Palm has lined up carriers for an international launch in North America, Latin America, and Europe in addition to Sprint in the United States.

The handset maker is hoping for a strong showing with Sprint, potentially attracting more U.S. carriers in the 2010 timeframe, meaning Sprint's exclusivity window will not last long.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[joemulder]

nowadays,
patent battle doesn't mean a thing.
apple was just saying it. and giving presure on Palm.but there will be no war between them.

on the other hand, iphone ver.3 will win anyway.
haha

that's how things works, first one always win ( more market share)

[dualie]

It looks very mechanical.

[Virgil-TB2]

Their product strategy makes it sound like they are just praying and hoping for Microsoft to buy them out. They are not doing their traditional customer base any favours by refusing to support the old OS, and keeping WinMobile is only intended to keep the newer corporate customers on board.

What a deal it would be for Microsoft too. All that BeOS code, the pre, and Rubenstein to be their new product guru.

[Phone-UI-Guy]

Palm's patents are probably worthless based on Newton Prior art anyway.

[joemulder]

apple has been quite with products for a while now.

must be good..

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2

Their product strategy makes it sound like they are just praying and hoping for Microsoft to buy them out. They are not doing their traditional customer base any favours by refusing to support the old OS, and keeping WinMobile is only intended to keep the newer corporate customers on board.

What a deal it would be for Microsoft too. All that BeOS code, the pre, and Rubenstein to be their new product guru.

That would be some turn of events for Ruby. Retire....then come out of retirement and then end up in Redmond. LOL. He could write a book about it.

Frankly I disagree with Colligans Porcupine statment. The situation is more like

An old haggard Porcupine missing many quills playing in the same area that the young alpha Porcupine with a full body of quills. Palm doesn't appear to have enough money to mount a lengthy legal defense but then again it didn't appear that Pystar did either

[mdriftmeyer]

Seeing as Sprint is dying their carrier options are slim to none. They better focus on getting an actual carrier who will be relevant to even use their system.

From what I can tell, Palm wants control of their OS and hardware, ala Apple iPhone so this greatly narrows their options, inside the US.

If Verizon had agreed to Apple's terms AT&T would be scrambling to get Palm. Verizon has enough control over the other phone manufacturers that they currently don't care to bend over and concede to more amicable terms.

Sprint needs a spark and they want to have Palm Pre on their list. The problem is the economy.

Timing is everything in life.

Sprint is dying. Palm is running out of options.

Apple is in the driver's seat.

Verizon is in the driver's seat.

AT&T is in the driver's seat.

Palm is not in the driver's seat and can't afford any wrong turns.

[Foo2]

In other words, multi-touch was just a demo. The Pre that actually goes up for sale won't have Multi-touch.

[nagromme]

They're wasting an awful lot of that small display--it's like a tiny screen within the real screen.

[Johnny Mozzarella]

I have to admit I like the look of the hardware and the OS is probably the first fresh looking piece of work out of palm in more than a decade.

I don't think Palm can survive with just a smartphone.
I think a NetBook running their WebOS would be great for mobile productivity.

[bulldogger]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

The president and chief executive of Palm says his company is more focused on finishing the Pre than worrying about any sort of patent battle with iPhone maker Apple..

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

As much as I love Apple and their products, it's nice to see another product out there who is trying to emulate if not beat it. Look what happened when Amazon started offering DRM free songs...Apple countered and started offering DRM free and variable pricing.

This new addition the Pre into the mix will definitely have Apple trying to improve on iPhone's design/OS.

I hope Pre does succeed. The big Apple will have to make the next move.

[Cam'ron]

Originally Posted by nagromme

They're wasting an awful lot of that small display--it's like a tiny screen within the real screen.

That view makes it easier to swap between programs, you can zoom it in full screen if you want.

[Olternaut]

Originally Posted by Foo2

In other words, multi-touch was just a demo. The Pre that actually goes up for sale won't have Multi-touch.

Um, no. I guess you haven't been paying attention.

[TenoBell]

Ape did not begin to sell DRM free music directly because of Amazon. Steve Jobs said DRM was a bad idea when iTunes first started to sell music. Apple was able to negotiate the end of DRM because of it's market strength.

Originally Posted by bulldogger

As much as I love Apple and their products, it's nice to see another product out there who is trying to emulate if not beat it. Look what happened when Amazon started offering DRM free songs...Apple countered and started offering DRM free and variable pricing.

This new addition the Pre into the mix will definitely have Apple trying to improve on iPhone's design/OS.

I hope Pre does succeed. The big Apple will have to make the next move.

[carloblackmore]

I agree that Palm and Apple are probably better leaving each other alone on this - if only for the sake of not wasting a court's valuable time.
But I can understand why Palm would need to dial down the aggression. Because their porcupine may have more quills, but they may not be as sharp as Apple.

The ways that the Pre imitates the iPhone seem to be such an exact replication of only the iPhone's style and behavior it points more to blatant copying. As opposed to the mostly general functions on the iPhone that are similar to Palm's devices; things like call-switching, recent calls, etc., which are almost "obvious" functions for any phone made in the last decade.

[Virgil-TB2]

Originally Posted by carloblackmore

I agree that Palm and Apple are probably better leaving each other alone on this - if only for the sake of not wasting a court's valuable time.
But I can understand why Palm would need to dial down the aggression. Because their porcupine may have more quills, but they may not be as sharp as Apple.

The ways that the Pre imitates the iPhone seem to be such an exact replication of only the iPhone's style and behavior it points more to blatant copying. As opposed to the mostly general functions on the iPhone that are similar to Palm's devices; things like call-switching, recent calls, etc., which are almost "obvious" functions for any phone made in the last decade.

I agree that the best thing for all would be not to have a protracted court battle over this, but I disagree on your assessment of the central issues.

It seems to me that the pre's UI and general approach to the OS is quite different from the iPhone and that the apparent visual similarities are merely the result of both of them "looking good" and operating smoothly as opposed to most UI's and most phones.

The sticking points IMO are:

1. Does the fact that Apple was first to create a multi-touch mobile device and receive a patent on it mean that no one else can do a multi-touch interface for mobile devices as a general proscription?
   
2. Does the fact the Apple has a patent on gesture based interfaces for a mobile device mean that no one can do gesture based mobile interfaces as a general proscription? (and the same for desktops but that's a side issue)
   
3. Does the "gesture area" on the pre violate the iPhone patent specifically?
   
4. Do some of the specific gestures in use on the pre violate Apple's patent specifically?
   
5. Generally how much of Palms patent portfolio is invalidated by Apple's prior art and patents on the Newton?

The "look" and the general layout of the webOS seem more or less irrelevant to these points even if you argue (I think wrongly) that they are in anyway similar to the iPhone.

[carloblackmore]

Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2

The "look" and the general layout of the webOS seem more or less irrelevant to these points even if you argue (I think wrongly) that they are in anyway similar to the iPhone.

I'm specifically referring to the iPhone's UI behaviors. Take a look at the behavior of the Pre UI compared to the iPhone, and see if you still disagree that Palm straight copied certain behaviors unique to an iPhone.
Have you seen this demo...
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/a...epth-analysis/

While much of the Pre UI is distinct, the couple iPhone-esque things I see begs the question how did Palm replicate that?

[Adjei]

Originally Posted by bulldogger

As much as I love Apple and their products, it's nice to see another product out there who is trying to emulate if not beat it. Look what happened when Amazon started offering DRM free songs...Apple countered and started offering DRM free and variable pricing.

This new addition the Pre into the mix will definitely have Apple trying to improve on iPhone's design/OS.

I hope Pre does succeed. The big Apple will have to make the next move.

Didn't Apple have DRM free music before Amazon?

[stompy]

Originally Posted by Adjei

Didn't Apple have DRM free music before Amazon?

You're right, iTunes plus with EMI was prior to Amazon MP3 store.

Originally Posted by bulldogger

... it's nice to see another product out there who is trying to emulate if not beat it. Look what happened when Amazon started offering DRM free songs...Apple countered and started offering DRM free and variable pricing.

This new addition the Pre into the mix will definitely have Apple trying to improve on iPhone's design/OS.

Competition will make everyone better, but you need to chose a different example.

"A senior executive at another record company..."

cheers

[zoboomafoo]

Originally Posted by joemulder

that's how things works, first one always win ( more market share)

if that were always true, the ipod would've flopped and apple would be dead in the water.

good thing it's not always true!

[dizzy13]

By the time this thing comes out the 3rd gen iPhone will be out and will be a year ahead of the pre. The pre does look nice though, but it's a competitor to the iPhone 3g, not the 3rd gen iPhone. Sorry Palm.

[digitalclips]

Originally Posted by Foo2

In other words, multi-touch was just a demo. The Pre that actually goes up for sale won't have Multi-touch.

Or along those lines ... the delay is due to making changes to avoid legal action ...

[Tofino]

Originally Posted by Phone-UI-Guy

Palm's patents are probably worthless based on Newton Prior art anyway.

hmmm... didn't palm start out as a newton developer? i seem to remember a little program called graffiti that was a 'must have' to overcome the 'egg freckles' syndrome in the early days of the newton os...