Best Buy offering $100 iPhone discount to program members

[AppleInsider]

Members of Best Buy's Reward Zone program can save up to $100 on an iPhone 3G from Best Buy Mobile until the end of this week.

The full $100 discount is offered to Premier Silver members, making the price of an 8GB iPhone 3G just $99.99, or $199.99 for the 16GB model. Meanwhile, customers who have enrolled in the standard Reward Zone program can save $50 off either model.

Best Buy requires a Reward Zone membership that started on or before February 21 to be eligible for the deal with a limit of one per customer. The special pricing is only available in stores and the promotion ends Saturday.

A Best Buy Reward Zone membership is free to join while Premier Silver status is only available to Reward Zone members who spend at least $2,500 at Best Buy in a single calendar year, according to a list of frequently asked questions at the program's website.

Meanwhile, AT&T's recent round of online refurbished iPhone discounts is nearing an end, as the only model with some supply remaining is the 8GB iPhone 3G.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[e1618978]

Clearing out stock before a big refresh? Maybe a big refresh that includes Verizon CDMA phones?

I don't think that Apple every confirmed the "5 year exclusive to AT&T" rumor, maybe it was only a two year exclusive, and now Verizon can come on line in June...

[DHKOsta]

Originally Posted by e1618978

Clearing out stock before a big refresh? Maybe a big refresh that includes Verizon CDMA phones?

I don't think that Apple every confirmed the "5 year exclusive to AT&T" rumor, maybe it was only a two year exclusive, and now Verizon can come on line in June...

Verizon's not capable of the same level of discretion that Apple is. It's my feeling that if this were the case, it would have been leaked in a big way by now. Also, Verizon's network runs phones hotter and requires more juice for connection. A CDMA iPhone would be tough to make in the same quality, and would undermine the solid business model the iPhone is based on: A single device for a global market.

[e1618978]

Hmmm... what is the effect on Verizon phone battery life? If it was significant, you would think that people would be complaining a lot, and all I hear from Verizon customers is positive stuff.

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by DHKOsta

A CDMA iPhone would be tough to make in the same quality, and would undermine the solid business model the iPhone is based on: A single device for a global market.

With the most crappy carrier- AT&T.

[bigmc6000]

Originally Posted by teckstud

With the most crappy carrier- AT&T.

In my experience Verizon and Sprint are neck and neck for the worst. AT&T is so far ahead of them simply because they don't cripple the sh!t out of their phones...

[DHKOsta]

Originally Posted by e1618978

Hmmm... what is the effect on Verizon phone battery life? If it was significant, you would think that people would be complaining a lot, and all I hear from Verizon customers is positive stuff.

Most Verizon customers aren't using data on an "iPhone user" level. Sure, their network is big, and the delivery of data is comparable in speed to AT&T, but it's inefficient. After an hour of YouTube, a CDMA iPhone would be hot, probably to the point where it'd be uncomfortable to hold.

Originally Posted by teckstud

With the most crappy carrier- AT&T.

That's not always the case. It depends on where you live, and it's constantly improving. AT&T is not significantly, if at all, crappier than any other cell carrier here in the US.

[NasserAE]

Originally Posted by e1618978

Clearing out stock before a big refresh? Maybe a big refresh that includes Verizon CDMA phones?

I don't think that Apple every confirmed the "5 year exclusive to AT&T" rumor, maybe it was only a two year exclusive, and now Verizon can come on line in June...

In my opinion Apple contract with AT&T is most likely per device model not years.

[GTL215]

And here we begin once again the eternal VZ vs ATT debate. The simple answer is "IT ALL DEPENDS." They each have their pros and cons, and your particular location / experiences don't necessarily speak for everybody else's. If you don't like AT&T, feel free to switch, but don't expect an iPhone. Apple considers them to be near-equals, and the benefit of a single GSM device capable of being sold worldwide far outweighs the (perceived) benefits of Verizon over AT&T in the United States. End of discussion!

[mrob]

Verizon's coverage has been much better everywhere I've lived or traveled compared to ATT or TMobile over the last decade or so. All carriers cripple their phones--except the iPhone.

[mrob]

Originally Posted by GTL215

And here we begin once again the eternal VZ vs ATT debate. The simple answer is "IT ALL DEPENDS." They each have their pros and cons, and your particular location / experiences don't necessarily speak for everybody else's. If you don't like AT&T, feel free to switch, but don't expect an iPhone. Apple considers them to be near-equals, and the benefit of a single GSM device capable of being sold worldwide far outweighs the (perceived) benefits of Verizon over AT&T in the United States. End of discussion!

If you want to make calls with your phone--novel thought--then its all about the carrier. And while its true that coverage quality is a local issue, you can't discount individuals' experiences with coverage from various carriers. Until there is truly a single device capable of being sold--and used--everywhere worldwide, the discussion won't be over.

[BuzDots]

Originally Posted by e1618978

Hmmm... what is the effect on Verizon phone battery life? If it was significant, you would think that people would be complaining a lot, and all I hear from Verizon customers is positive stuff.

Well, let me be the first (I know I'm not) to complain about Verizon.

I have been with Verizon since they were BellAtlantic and the phone came along with the bag that carried the battery, and the service has been crappy the whole time. I finally got a belly full of them when they wouldn't let me switch the mailing address of my mothers service to my address so I could pay her bills for her - she was 97.

I switched to AT&T about two weeks ago - along with a couple of iPhones, and so far, the service has been far superior to Verizon. Reception is better, setup was better and getting answers is better. I hate to let it slip that the same calling plan even with two iPhones is cheaper too.

Not only that, now I don't have to feel like I got that crew of friggin nurds following me around!!! (what jackass advertising)

Can you tell I glad to be rid of 'em?

Before =
After =

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by bigmc6000

In my experience Verizon and Sprint are neck and neck for the worst. AT&T is so far ahead of them simply because they don't cripple the sh!t out of their phones...

If your carrier AT&T can't connect calls consistently and they drop calls frequently, what the hell difference does that make?

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by DHKOsta

That's not always the case. It depends on where you live, and it's constantly improving. AT&T is not significantly, if at all, crappier than any other cell carrier here in the US.

Then why is AT&T rated at the bottom of consumer reports year after year?

[BuzDots]

Originally Posted by teckstud

If your carrier AT&T can't connect calls consistently and they drop calls frequently, what the hell difference does that make?

Agreed, if you live in Bumf--k Egypt, (a suburb of my town) you can't complain when no one provides good cell coverage.

But, as a corporate entity, my perception is that Verizon is less than desirable.

I was going to say opinion, but you know what they say about those.......

[chadisawesome]

if it's impossible to believe that apple will build a headless mac, it's also impossible to believe that they will ever release a phone that's not gsm. doesn't make fiscal sense for them, no matter how you cut it.

yes I get it, you would buy an iphone if only they were on verizon. but your purchase doesn't make up for engineering an entire new platform to work off of. different hardware, different software, different plans, all altogether confusing to the customer.

[caliminius]

Originally Posted by chadisawesome

if it's impossible to believe that apple will build a headless mac, it's also impossible to believe that they will ever release a phone that's not gsm. doesn't make fiscal sense for them, no matter how you cut it.

yes I get it, you would buy an iphone if only they were on verizon. but your purchase doesn't make up for engineering an entire new platform to work off of. different hardware, different software, different plans, all altogether confusing to the customer.

Right, because cutting out a huge chunk of the U.S. cell market somehow DOES make fiscal sense.
And because it would be impossible for Apple to accomplish the same thing that every other cell phone manufacturer somehow manages to do (making both GSM and CDMA versions).

It wouldn't be a new platform and only involve a modicum of different hardware and software. I'm not sure how many customers are confused about being able to buy, say, the Motorola Razr on different carriers.

None of your arguments against a CDMA-based iPhone make sense, fiscal or otherwise.

[winterspan]

Originally Posted by chadisawesome

if it's impossible to believe that apple will build a headless mac, it's also impossible to believe that they will ever release a phone that's not gsm. doesn't make fiscal sense for them, no matter how you cut it.

yes I get it, you would buy an iphone if only they were on verizon. but your purchase doesn't make up for engineering an entire new platform to work off of. different hardware, different software, different plans, all altogether confusing to the customer.

Entirely new platform? Hardly... It would take very much effort for a CDMA iPhone, particularly if they used a combination HSPA/EVDO chipset in their new iPhone...

[DHKOsta]

Originally Posted by e1618978

Hmmm... what is the effect on Verizon phone battery life? If it was significant, you would think that people would be complaining a lot, and all I hear from Verizon customers is positive stuff.

Originally Posted by teckstud

With the most crappy carrier- AT&T.

Originally Posted by teckstud

Then why is AT&T rated at the bottom of consumer reports year after year?

I don't actually know, but I'd guess that most people don't actually LIKE their cell companies, so nobody says much good. And more customers means more complaints. And people somehow don't find acceptable anymore that their phones don't work EVERYWHERE.

[floccus]

Originally Posted by caliminius

Right, because cutting out a huge chunk of the U.S. cell market somehow DOES make fiscal sense.
None of your arguments against a CDMA-based iPhone make sense, fiscal or otherwise.

The number of consumers who want a CDMA based iPhone pales in comparison to the number of units Apple is able to ship in the rest of the world as GSM. Hell, if/when China Mobile falls in line, then the entire US market would be nothing in terms of possible unit sales. And don't forget, very few people even own a smartphone on any network, so Apple doesn't need to care about all you people who whine and complain about not being able to have an iPhone w/ Verizon. Unit growth on ATT will provide more than enough revenue in the short term given the current economic outlook. And if you really really really really want one, then wait till the 4G version when all US carriers are expected to use the same network format.

[cameronj]

Originally Posted by floccus

The number of consumers who want a CDMA based iPhone pales in comparison to the number of units Apple is able to ship in the rest of the world as GSM. Hell, if/when China Mobile falls in line, then the entire US market would be nothing in terms of possible unit sales. And don't forget, very few people even own a smartphone on any network, so Apple doesn't need to care about all you people who whine and complain about not being able to have an iPhone w/ Verizon. Unit growth on ATT will provide more than enough revenue in the short term given the current economic outlook. And if you really really really really want one, then wait till the 4G version when all US carriers are expected to use the same network format.

The number of people NOT on CDMA is meaningless to this argument. All that matters is the number who ARE on CDMA. And there's little doubt that changing a couple chips to potentially sell the same number of iPhones as Apple has sold to ATT in the USA (is that 10 million now?) seems quite profitable. Since Apple makes around 50% gross profit margin, 10 million phones at $600 (times 50% = $300) equals $3 billion dollars in gross profit.

How much of that $3 billion do you think it would cost to engineer the changes needed to make a new model of the iPhone, something all the other manufacturers have managed to do profitably with FAR less popular AND expensive phones.

[floccus]

Originally Posted by cameronj

The number of people NOT on CDMA is meaningless to this argument. All that matters is the number who ARE on CDMA.

Since Apple makes around 50% gross profit margin, 10 million phones at $600 (times 50% = $300) equals $3 billion dollars in gross profit.

Actually, the number of potential buyers is the whole argument. Apple doesn't need to chase a very small percentage of the global market because they have the entire world at their disposal. The bottom line is that GSM is the standard that the world has adopted, and thats what Apple is playing to. And you're assumptions of profit margin are highly inflated. Just because iSuppli says the bill of materials points to a 50% margin doesn't mean thats what Apple sees. They had to invest resources in the engineering, software development, and marketing of the iPhone which take up a good chunk of that remaining 50% (I'd say their margins probably run around 30%).

[cameronj]

Originally Posted by floccus

Actually, the number of potential buyers is the whole argument. Apple doesn't need to chase a very small percentage of the global market because they have the entire world at their disposal.

You don't appear to see the difference between the number of potential buyers (Verizon's 80 million, or whatever) and the percentage of the global market. If Verizon's 80 million customers accounted for 50% of the global market, Apple's market opportunity would be no different - 80 million. Percentage of the market is meaningless. The only question is how many potential sales is Verizon (based on ATT's experience, the number is probably around 10 million), and how much would it cost to design and produce a new model for those 10 million. As I very clearly explained for you in my last post, it is highly unlikely that the cost to sell those 10 million phones is more than the $6 billion in revenue that they would bring.

Originally Posted by floccus

And you're assumptions of profit margin are highly inflated. Just because iSuppli says the bill of materials points to a 50% margin doesn't mean thats what Apple sees. They had to invest resources in the engineering, software development, and marketing of the iPhone which take up a good chunk of that remaining 50% (I'd say their margins probably run around 30%).

No, my assumptions of gross profit margin are not inflated. I imagine you've never taken accounting? Gross profit by definition excludes everything except the cost to physically produce the product. That's why I said $3 billion in gross profit instead of $6 billion in sales. Is is those $3 billion that are left to pay for engineering, software development and marketing. Let's be generous and say that the engineering of swapping a chip out and programming it costs $100 million dollars. $100 million can hire a LOT of engineers and software developers for a LONG time. Marketing... hmm... yeah Apple sure will have to spend a lot to get the word out that the iPhone is available for Verizon. RIGHT! So I'll give you another $100 million for that.

That leaves $2.8 billion of profit. Seems profitable to me!

Now lets's be clear. While I am arguing that making a CDMA iPhone makes economic sense to Apple, I DO NOT believe it will happen for another 3 years. Apple's agreement with ATT precludes it, so it won't happen. But the argument over whether it makes economic sense is such a bloodbath I can't believe you would bother to speak up to take the other side.

[winterspan]

Originally Posted by floccus

Actually, the number of potential buyers is the whole argument. Apple doesn't need to chase a very small percentage of the global market because they have the entire world at their disposal. The bottom line is that GSM is the standard that the world has adopted, and thats what Apple is playing to.

1) First of all, Apple has had much greater success with the iPhone in the United States than else where, and so the US market is much more important to them than it would seem based solely on total cellphone/smartphone subscribers.

2) While GSM/HSPA is indeed popular, it is naive to call it the "world standard" and act like CDMA/EV-DO is solely a USA phenomenon.

If you take a look here: http://www.cdg.org/worldwide/cdma_world_subscriber.asp,
you'll see there are 465 MILLION CDMA/EV-DO subscribers in the world, and less than a third of them are in the United States and Canada.