Psystar presses forward with another Mac clone

[AppleInsider]

Despite ongoing litigation, Mac cloner Psystar has introduced a new slimline tower also capable of running Apple's Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard operating system, starting at $600.

With the trial months away, scheduled for November, Florida-based Psystar has unveiled the oddly-named Open(3) computer along with some updates to other products in its lineup. According to the cloner's website, the Open(3) is in stock now.

For $599.99 customers receive a slimline tower with a 2.8 GHz Core 2 Duo processor, 2GB of DDR2 memory, a 500GB hard drive, and NVIDIA's GeForce 8400 GS graphics card with 256MB of video memory. FireWire does not come standard, instead requiring $79, and 802.11n wireless is another $99. A USB Bluetooth adapter costs $40 more.

Upgrade options include a 2.53 GHz Core2Quad ($180), 4GB of memory ($50), 1TB hard drive ($100), additional hard drives ($99 to $199), and a Blu-ray burner. Graphics can be bumped up to the GeForce 9500GT 512MB for $119.

Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, of course, comes installed. Psystar also sells an optional copy of iLife and iWork together for $59.99.



Meanwhile, the company has refreshed its Open Pro flagship to offer a rackmount version for servers ($1,155) that comes with a 3.16 GHz Core 2 Duo and 4GB of memory. The base tower (also $1,155) gets updated parts, including 8GB of RAM, a 1TB hard drive, and NVIDIA's GeForce9500 GT video card. Upgrades are available as well.

Apple finally sued Psystar in July 2008, and the months since have seen Psystar's counterarguments get modified and the two sides agree on a protective order.

Psystar maintains Apple is misusing its copyrights by ensuring kernel panics and infinite loops on unauthorized hardware attempting to run Mac OS X. Apple contends Psystar's circumvention of its code in order to sell the machines without Apple's permission constitutes copyright violation and is seeking an order to halt Psystar's behavior.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[bloggerblog]

Just curious, has anyone here bought anything from Psystar yet?

[chadisawesome]

I haven't bought anything from them in fear that they could go under at any minute forcing me to maintain the machine they sold me. If that's going to be the situation anyway, why not just build my own mac clone and become familiar with the process myself, and that way I don't have to pay anyone to build it for me. It's relatively easy now to build and run a mac clone, and with the refusal to offer a headless mac, it's the only solution for someone wanting more power than a mini and less power than a powermac.

[Mr Underhill]

They must be feeling confident and i guess life goes on and they have a business to run.

Having said that you can only poke a stick at a Leopard for so long before before it bites your arm off.

[emig647]

LOL, might as well i guess. Not gonna be here months from now so might as well get while the gettin is good.

I can't wait for them to disappear (this is coming from someone that builds hacks for a hobby). They are bad for apple and bad for the community. The sad thing is they didn't even innovate getting OS X to work on intel machines! LOL

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by Mr Underhill

They must be feeling confident and i guess life goes on and they have a business to run.

Bernie Madoff had a business to run.

[CREB]

Originally Posted by bloggerblog

Just curious, has anyone here bought anything from Psystar yet?

Hell no!

These types of companies will push the boundaries until they die, and then reorganize under another name.

[kerryb]

Is this clone make really any threat to Apple's hardware sales? The only people interested in running Mac OS X on non Apple hardware are geeks that love tinkering with wires and circuits. Having said that I think Apple will need to make an expensive example of Piss-star. I can imagine a future with people bringing clones to the Genius bar demanding free help and then another law suit coming from Apple's refusal to honor their legitimate copies of OS X.

[Quadra 610]

Who really cares.

They can can go ahead and churn out this cheap shit as much as they like, because the show's over soon, anyway. Best thing to do is milk the clone-cow while it lasts.

It's a shame that this fly-by-night operation won't get closed down sooner, but such is life. November should be fun.

[Mr Underhill]

Originally Posted by solipsism

Bernie Madoff had a business to run.

LOL He sure did. Although i wonder on who's behalf he ran that business.
Brings a whole new meaning to the word Philanthropy.

[Chris_CA]

Originally Posted by kerryb

Is this clone make really any threat to Apple's hardware sales?

Not by themselves, no.
But if Apple does not press the issue with Psytar as a commercial entity (not Joe 6-pack doing a Hackintosh), then Dell (or someone else) could easily step in and make clones and Apple would not have a leg to stand on since they did not try to enforce their copyright or intellectual property (or whatever).

[CU10]

This company's got courage; I'll give them that.

[kerryb]

Originally Posted by Chris_CA

Not by themselves, no.
But if Apple does not press the issue with Psytar as a commercial entity (not Joe 6-pack doing a Hackintosh), then Dell (or someone else) could easily step in and make clones and Apple would not have a leg to stand on since they did not try to enforce their copyright or intellectual property (or whatever).

see the rest of post.

[camroidv27]

Interesting that this machine is not as good as the latest Mac Mini, yet costs the same... So where is the saving money thing in that?

Although, you can pickup a Firewire 800 Texas Instruments chipped card for 20 bucks. Works well in my computer. Bluetooth is another 10. Wifi on a desktop does seem a bit silly to me, though I understand that there are those who need it.

Though, I built a Quad core, 8600 gt, 2gb ram, 250gb HD, Firewire 800, DVD burners (2x) and case all for under what they are asking for the new offering. (And for less than the white macbook you can add a netbook to the quad machine!) I swear, if you want to take a bite out of Apple, do it with undercutting prices, not offering the same price, lower computer specs.

[hmurchison]

I guess "Open" has its costs huh?

Other than the higher end 2.8Ghz processor this is absolute
garbage.

Sure nickel and dime me to death for Wifi, FW and Bluetooth and I
bet each "add on" comes with driver conflicts.

The sooner these hack jobs get the boot the better. If I want an unstable
mess i'll build my own Hackintosh.

[realmike15]

apple should release their OS restrictions, and let people develop drivers for all hardware. then have a very thorough disclaimer, that if you choose to run this software on anything but an Apple system, you will receive no support.

every hardware company would rush to release compatible drivers for OSX. people building hackintosh has only proved one thing. you can develop software for OSX that works with almost any hardware. it's just restrictions, nothing more.

they would make so much money on OSX purchases alone. it's not like we want to use their hardware, or have them make it available to everyone. we just want their software.

[iReality85]

As a PC user, I wouldn't mind using OS X if given the chance. That being said, I would never buy a Hackintosh, especially from Psystar. I would only buy OS X if it legitimately came from Apple, but the chance of them releasing OS X into the wild is pretty slim.

[Quadra 610]

Originally Posted by iReality85

As a PC user, I wouldn't mind using OS X if given the chance. That being said, I would never buy a Hackintosh, especially from Psystar. I would only buy OS X if it legitimately came from Apple, but the chance of them releasing OS X into the wild is pretty slim.

So get a Mac. Seriously, just do it!

I was saying the same thing over 3 years ago. Yeah, I shelled out a bit more, but the experience since then has been all for the better. Totally worth it.

[mstone]

Originally Posted by italiankid

More competition is great.

Goes to show you how much of a premium you pay for Apple products lol.

Tell me who did all the R&D, wrote all the OS code, updates the OS code, writes all the drivers, writes all the included applications, provide support for it all, etc, etc.

Surely you don't think that is all just free. No, they roll that cost into the price of the hardware.

[Quadra 610]

Originally Posted by italiankid

More competition is great.

Goes to show you how much of a premium you pay for Apple products lol.

Competition?

A company that steals Apple's property, modifies it illegally, and then repackages it on junk is not competition. It's theft.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by italiankid

More competition is great.

Goes to show you how much of a premium you pay for Apple products lol.

So, how much are you saving? I can't see any savings as there is no machine to directly compare it to, but I do see some BTO options that are quite expensive. The only real advantage that Psystar has over Apple is that they offer a headless consumer-grade desktops. However, I think their product falls apart because they are building a Mac that they can't get real support for yet the buyer is paying a premium for Psystar to build them a machine that they can easily build themselves. A hacked together machine is fine for those with the proper skills, but not fine for those without, so the only people who are really a good candidate for these machines are those with more disposable income than your typical hobbyist, a hobbyist who (for some reason) doesn't want to hobby the initial build, and one who is fine with the limited options offered by Psystar despite the OSx86 Project's HCL having many more options available.

[caliminius]

Originally Posted by camroidv27

Interesting that this machine is not as good as the latest Mac Mini, yet costs the same... So where is the saving money thing in that?

I swear, if you want to take a bite out of Apple, do it with undercutting prices, not offering the same price, lower computer specs.

Lower specs? The $599 Psystar clone blows the Mac Mini out of the water spec-wise. Faster processor, more RAM, bigger hard drive, the graphics card isn't sucking away main memory, and there's probably a keyboard and mouse thrown in as well. To come close the clone's stats the Mini jumps to $1072. Even adding in Firewire, Bluetooth and Wi-Fi makes the clone $250 cheaper. Personally, I think a lot of computer users would hardly notice the lack of Firewire and Bluetooth, so honestly it's closer to $370 cheaper.

[hillstones]

Originally Posted by kerryb

Is this clone make really any threat to Apple's hardware sales? The only people interested in running Mac OS X on non Apple hardware are geeks that love tinkering with wires and circuits. Having said that I think Apple will need to make an expensive example of Piss-star. I can imagine a future with people bringing clones to the Genius bar demanding free help and then another law suit coming from Apple's refusal to honor their legitimate copies of OS X.

You have a great point. The people out there that want to do it themselves, enjoy buidling one themselves. They don't want to buy one already done and then claim they have a PC running Leopard. They want to say look what I built, and look what I did.

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by Mr Underhill

They must be feeling confident and i guess life goes on and they have a business to run.

Having said that you can only poke a stick at a Leopard for so long before before it bites your arm off.

If you can't even have the word "pod" in any products name (see prior thread)- how do these people even think they stand a chance?

[Bowser]

Originally Posted by chadisawesome

It's relatively easy now to build and run a mac clone, and with the refusal to offer a headless mac, it's the only solution for someone wanting more power than a mini and less power than a powermac.

What cave have you been living in? Ever hear of an Apple product called the Mac Mini? Go away Windoze troll...

Originally Posted by italiankid

More competition is great.

Goes to show you how much of a premium you pay for Apple products lol.

Try again. Go to Dell's or HP's website and configure a computer from them with the same specs as a MacBook Pro or a MacPro; you'll just as much if not more, and you're still stuck with WinBlows.

[hillstones]

Psystar has some interesting fine print. The OS X Leopard Retail DVD included with the purchase does nothing. In order to restore your OpenComputer, you have to request their special Restore CD (which is obviously the software that hacks the OS). To obtain this CD, you must sign off all your rights and release Psystar in its entirety. Isn't that nice? They also admit that boot camp doesn't work either. Now who would be dumb enough to buy one of their computers?

[hillstones]

Originally Posted by caliminius

Lower specs? The $599 Psystar clone blows the Mac Mini out of the water spec-wise. Faster processor, more RAM, bigger hard drive, the graphics card isn't sucking away main memory, and there's probably a keyboard and mouse thrown in as well. To come close the clone's stats the Mini jumps to $1072. Even adding in Firewire, Bluetooth and Wi-Fi makes the clone $250 cheaper. Personally, I think a lot of computer users would hardly notice the lack of Firewire and Bluetooth, so honestly it's closer to $370 cheaper.

I guess you didn't bother to go to Psystar's website to back up your claim. If you configure their so-called $599 computer with FireWire, Bluetooth (which is a USB dongle!), Wireless, and add $49 for a Keyboard and Mouse (which they do not include), the price jumps to $866.99, and you still need to spend a few hundred for a decent monitor. Most users do use FireWire (hard drives, DV cameras) and Bluetooth for wireless keyboards and mice. So it is not $370 cheaper. If you add the more expensive processor, memory, hard drive, video, throw in iLife and iWork, and extra warranty, now you are up to $1,723.98, and you are still missing the monitor. Still think it is $370 cheaper? Also, you can't restore the computer until you release all your rights against the company and request their restore CD.

[bloggerblog]

Originally Posted by Quadra 610

Competition?

A company that steals Apple's property, modifies it illegally, and then repackages it on junk is not competition. It's theft.

I know this topic has been previously argued till we were all numb-in-the-head. I do not agree or support Psystar, however:

Psystar does not steal Apple's properties, they actually purchase a full version of OS X legally and install it using Hackintosh (middleware software). It's the EULA that Apple is using against Psystar which claims that OS X is to be installed only on Apple hardware, and also forbids third-party intallations.

-Wikipedia "This new boot-dfe has been tested with the retail Leopard DVD and it can boot, install and run Leopard without having to build a modified DVD."

My opinion: Apple could make all this go away if they simply release a mid-tower Mac for $999, only then would Hackintosh fall back into being strictly a hobby.

[lifterus]

Apple should just make a regular desktop system. Then there would be no demand for something like this. Nobody who does PC gaming (it is a big market, believe it or not) can use Apple hardware because you can't install graphics card upgrades in any of their consumer desktop systems.

[bwik]

This looks like a good update to Psystar's product line. It could be good in schools, where wireless for example is unnecessary. It looks like Psystar is outperforming Apple in terms of value for money... compare to the Mac Mini and you will see what I am talking about. Sure, the Mini is an appealing design... but... the specs aren't even close.

Competition is good. I think it is quite clever what Psystar is doing, at least, that guy will end up much wealthier than I will, so in that respect, he seems clever.

[realmike15]

Originally Posted by bloggerblog

I know this topic has been previously argued till we were all numb-in-the-head. I do not agree or support Psystar, however:

Psystar does not steal Apple's properties, they actually purchase a full version of OS X legally and install it using Hackintosh (middleware software). It's the EULA that Apple is using against Psystar which claims that OS X is to be installed only on Apple hardware, and also forbids third-party intallations.

-Wikipedia "This new boot-dfe has been tested with the retail Leopard DVD and it can boot, install and run Leopard without having to build a modified DVD."

My opinion: Apple could make all this go away if they simply release a mid-tower Mac for $999, only then would Hackintosh fall back into being strictly a hobby.

only partially true. the truth is i am a member of the Insanely Mac community, the main forum for hackintosh building and installing. myself as well as many others have ZERO interest in having Mac build a desktop for us. i can put together a better computer for half their price, plain and simple. my mac clone at home FLYS and i do mean FLYS, and for more than half the price of what Apple would have charged me. the reason my system is so fast, is because i hand picked the hardware that went into it, and did a ton of research before buying anything.

i have absolutely no beef with people who want to buy Mac Pros, they are beautiful looking machines. but a $1000 desktop just won't solve the problem, because no matter how hard Apple aims for quality, it's still all about money to them, because they are a company. they will ALWAYS cut corners in some way or another, for mass production. hackintosh builders just won't do that, and people building their own mac clones are the same kind of people who dislike windows based companies like Dell and Gateway. it's not just a price thing, it's a customization thing... something Apple cannot offer no matter how hard they try.

i wish Apple the best, i LOVE their software, and i've even considered buying an Apple laptop, because at this point building your own laptop is almost impossible, and when it comes to portable computers... imo Apple has everyone else beat. but desktops are another story, and until Apple releases their software for 3rd parties to develop under it... well lets just say theres always going to be a HUGE market for people who don't want to pay hefty premiums.

[zunx]

Apple should make a Mac miniTOWER asap!

Check also

PearC
https://www.pearc.de

And it is legal!

[troyallen23]

Some people talk about prices and competition. What about the fact that Macs and their OS is Apple's property. They are not Microsoft that makes a living on their OS and licenses to corporate and consumers. It was Microsoft's roadmap from day 1. Make the OS for IBM and clones. They don't make computers. This is not Apple's roadmap. Apple sells Macs and the OS as a package and it's their business. They want it this way. There are alot of things in this world that are too expensive that I can't afford and will never own, but thats life. Seriously, is MacOX so bloody good that people have to cry and fight for it? If I couldn't afford a Mac, I would be satisfies just using my PC and running Windows or using Linux. The only way Apple will lower their price if people don't buy their products.

[Flash_beezy]

Originally Posted by bwik

This looks like a good update to Psystar's product line. It could be good in schools, where wireless for example is unnecessary. It looks like Psystar is outperforming Apple in terms of value for money... compare to the Mac Mini and you will see what I am talking about. Sure, the Mini is an appealing design... but... the specs aren't even close.

Competition is good. I think it is quite clever what Psystar is doing, at least, that guy will end up much wealthier than I will, so in that respect, he seems clever.

wtf dude!?!? No dont support these idiots

[hillstones]

Originally Posted by bwik

This looks like a good update to Psystar's product line. It could be good in schools, where wireless for example is unnecessary. It looks like Psystar is outperforming Apple in terms of value for money... compare to the Mac Mini and you will see what I am talking about. Sure, the Mini is an appealing design... but... the specs aren't even close.

Competition is good. I think it is quite clever what Psystar is doing, at least, that guy will end up much wealthier than I will, so in that respect, he seems clever.

Schools get discounted prices on Macs. Schools prefer the all-in-one design (schools don't like to lose cables, etc). They are not outperforming Apple in terms of value for money because when you add the items that are missing, the cost of Psystar's computer is more expensive than the Mac Mini (and you are still missing a monitor). So yes, the specs aren't even close because Psystar ripped out all the features that come standard with the Mini. Also, you are unable to restore the computer until you release all your rights against the company and request their CD that hacks the OS. He won't be making any money because no one has admitted to buying any of their computers.

[hillstones]

Originally Posted by zunx

Apple should make a Mac miniTOWER asap!

Apple already made mini towers. They ranged from Quadra 800's to the Power Mac G4. If you really want a mini tower, then buy a used Power Mac G4. Since iMacs and MacBooks are flying off the shelves in record numbers, that pretty much proves that no one really needs or wants a tower style computer anymore.

If you really want a tower, then pony up the money for a Mac Pro. That will give you bragging rights, if that is all you are looking for. What would you do with the mini tower? Buy a new hard drive and a new video card after a couple of years, and then dump it for a new computer? Seems pointless.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by bwik

This looks like a good update to Psystar's product line. It could be good in schools, where wireless for example is unnecessary. It looks like Psystar is outperforming Apple in terms of value for money... compare to the Mac Mini and you will see what I am talking about. Sure, the Mini is an appealing design... but... the specs aren't even close.

Competition is good. I think it is quite clever what Psystar is doing, at least, that guy will end up much wealthier than I will, so in that respect, he seems clever.

He's no more clever than the man the may steal your car with a jimmy or the thug that uses a common knife to relieve you of your wallet. Thieving is easy..finding success within a framework of rules is the tricky part.

[hillstones]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

He's no more clever than the man the may steal your car with a jimmy or the thug that uses a common knife to relieve you of your wallet. Thieving is easy..finding success within a framework of rules is the tricky part.

Well said.

[CU10]

Originally Posted by iReality85

As a PC user, I wouldn't mind using OS X if given the chance. That being said, I would never buy a Hackintosh, especially from Psystar...

Hear hear. BTW, Powerbooks with Mac OS X Tiger can be had for a few hundred on eBay or craigslist. I bought a Powerbook G4 a few years ago and it was great. I'm on a Windows laptop now; which is ok as long as I maintain it properly (I'd rather just stick to one platform, and most of my programs are Windows-based and already paid for).

Macbooks and Mac Minis with intel CPUs can be had for a few hundred more. (G4 support will be phased out once the next Mac OS X is released.)

Just shop carefully and look for 1GB RAM at least; I think trying it out is the only way to really appreciate Mac OS X.

[JDW]

"Who cares?"
"Only an idiot would buy this"?
"It's not cheaper"?
"Gonna get stuck with the computer when they go under"?
"Hurts Apple"?

All statements made by individuals who seriously do not think too deeply about any given topic before they write. These are little more than scare tactics of extreme loyalists. And I say this as a Mac lover since 1984, who has never purchase a Mac outside Apple, and I own a substantial amount of AAPL to boot.

The fact is that Apple has turned a blind eye to mid-range computing users. These folks are the Middle Class of computer users. These people are indeed, mainstream. These folks want more power and expandability than the Mini (yes, even the new March 2009 Mini) can provide, yet cannot afford the premium priced Mac Pro. And while the iMac would normally be a great option for many of these people, Glossy Hell is not attractive to many of them (nor to me). Don't try to defend gloss by saying it doesn't bother YOU. That doesn't magically make it not bother everyone else. Therefore, the iMac's gloss removes it from the running for most people. Hence the need for a mid-range Apple tower, which currently does not exist.

If anything Psystar deserves some praise for having the guts to fill a need. They saw it. They filled it. They filled that need despite the fact they knew they would be sued. Now if they merely copied the Mac Mini or some other machine Apple already sells, I too would side with all of you in saying that Psystar should be shut down now, and that in such a case they would be doing Apple great harm. But that is NOT the case.

Despite what many of you in this thread claim, it is indeed CHEAPER to go with a pre-built clone, or build your own using the EFI-X module. To deny this is to show one's utter ignorance price versus performance (without the gloss). We are talking about mid-range towers here, folks. This is not a direct comparison to the Mac Mini. If anything, you should be comparing prices to the Mac Pro. There is a cost savings. In regards to the $1,700 config mentioned in this thread, consider the power and expandability you get with that! And consider that many people already have a monitor to go with it -- a matte LCD at that! It's very reasonably priced and super fast, something you cannot say about the Mac Pro. The Mac Pro is still faster and looks beautiful, but most mainstream people (myself included) don't have the money for a Mac Pro. But we do have money for a mid-range tower.

Will you be "stuck" with a machine should Psystar die this November? Hardly. Some people apparently plan to keep using the hardware until it stops working. Yes, Apple could make changes that prevent you from upgrading, UNLESS you then add a $200 EFI-X module which Apple cannot block. The only way Apple could block the EFI-X module is if they were to tie the OS to a special chip on the logic board. But if they do that, they would lose compatibility with older Mac hardware -- something Apple is not likely to do for a long time. Hence, in light of the existence of EFI-X, your purchase is rather safe. And even though EFI-X costs $200, the total amount of money you spend for the power and expandability you get is much, much lower than any comparable Mac Pro. It's still a sound deal moneywise. And even if EFI-X doesn't cut it for you, the box still could be used for Linux or Windows, I suppose. The box would not suddenly become junk.

Again, I am a Mac lover and have been since 1984. I don't really want to promote anything outside Apple. But there is a need and people have been pounding on that need for a long time, yet Apple has chosen to ignore the masses. It is only common sense that someone in a free market would come to the rescue to fill a need. Psystar has done this, as well as the EFI-X people. Indeed, I myself would be buying an iMac now if it weren't for the gloss. For the iMac is the only thing close to a mid-range machine in Apple's lineup. But I will NOT buy the gloss. Plus, you can get a quad-core chip and more RAM for less with a non-Apple machine. It's sad, but that is the state of things now. It's not my fault. The ball is in Apple's court.

And before you think me just an oddball, consider that Ric Ford of Macintouch feels the exact same way. Go to macintouch.com and read the EFI-X reader reports completely. Just because the Mini or iMac or Mac Pro may satisfy YOU, that doesn't mean all other people must be satisfied with the same thing. Until Apple does the right thing, EFI-X and Psystar will continue to exist. If Apple kills of Psystar, another with rise in its place. This will continue until Apple builds a reasonably priced mid-range Mac with a non-gloss option.