Apple responds to Microsoft ads: "a PC is no bargain"

[AppleInsider]

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[rbonner]

I think this response is very classy.

[fartheststar]

Rather than running ads that seem clever at first but really aren't, the Windows guys ought to take the hint and just build better computers.

...and Microsoft needs to build a better, more stable OS.

Edit: Yes - Classy response.

[Ireland]

Microsoft makes an interesting statement in their ads, but I don't think they work, really. As I have been saying, people see these ads and most think: "oh yeah, I heard how cool those Apple's are, must check out the Apple Store." People know, in the end, usually you get what you pay for. These ads aren't clever enough.

[walshbj]

I read that story this morning - it said a lot of the things I'd been thinking about MS, HP, and the ads.

[hmurchison]

What we need is a good ole fashioned street fight between Redmond and Cupertino.

[MissionGrey]

The current Microsoft ads remind me of the style of those, what were they "Sing Tunes Program", designed for a very simple audience level, about 3 years old.

[joe in miami]

I tell my PC friends the same thing about cheap components and price of software and resolution, but they are happy with their cheap shit.

It's like trying to get someone to go into a wine shop and select a $50 bottle of wine, when they are just as happy with a $10 bottle from the grocery store. It's just not worth the effort.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by Ireland

Microsoft makes an interesting statement in their ads, but I don't think they work, really. As I have been saying, people see these ads and most think: "oh yeah, I heard how cool those Apple's are, must check out the Apple Store." People know, in the end, usually you get what you pay for. These ads aren't clever enough.

The guy stating that Mac is really cool doesn't make sense to me to sell more HPs. I have no idea why that was included. The rest of the ads seems to work in the way they are meant to, except that I think the audience that seem to be targeting would have already decided on the budget computer, thus making it pointless. They need to convince people that the budget machine is worth the money, but i have no idea how they could do that.

Originally Posted by joe in miami

I tell my PC friends the same thing about cheap components and price of software and resolution, but they are happy with their cheap shit.

Let them have their cheap machines. Macs aren't for everyone. And if they did get one and liked it they would be stuck with Macs forever, like when you get an HDTV and HD cable and can't stand to watch SD anymore.

[gumbygo]

I thought the Macbook Pro screen size was 1920x1200, not 1920x1440.

[Fast Fred 1]

Originally Posted by Ireland

Microsoft makes an interesting statement in their ads, but I don't think they work, really. As I have been saying, people see these ads and most think: "oh yeah, I heard how cool those Apple's are, must check out the Apple Store." People know, in the end, usually you get what you pay for. These ads aren't clever enough.

Microsloth found Guilty!

[davebarnes]

Daniel,

You wrote: there's clearly a lot of PC buyers
and, I am sure you
meant to write: there are clearly a lot of PC buyers

,dave

[ActionJaxon]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

and a far lower quality display with much lower resolution, 1440x900 compared to the MacBook Pro's 1920x1440.

This made me second-guess myself but it's actually a (still formidable) 1920x1200 on the 17in MacBook Pro

I like this response from Apple, it's a professional and factual response - unlike alot of Microsoft's Ballmer-influenced, childish, misleading remarks and ad campaigns.... bravo Apple.

[Jsyedinak]

I think a clever response with a new "Im a Mac" ad could be just what the doctor ordered...not that I think that many are buying these ads...

Originally Posted by hmurchison

What we need is a good ole fashioned street fight between Redmond and Cupertino.

[S8ER01Z]

Originally Posted by joe in miami

I tell my PC friends the same thing about cheap components and price of software and resolution, but they are happy with their cheap shit.

It's like trying to get someone to go into a wine shop and select a $50 bottle of wine, when they are just as happy with a $10 bottle from the grocery store. It's just not worth the effort.

You just made their argument for them...

Why do I need to cough up for expensive hardware when I can spend less and still be happy? I also have AMD (which can be used to get great performance for the money) as a cheaper alternative.

As far as the article... as a Windows user (primarily) well played sir...not much can be said to counter that IMHO.

[Mazda 3s]

I only have a few things to take issue with

1) Most PC users worth their salt know that there are plenty of freeware AV programs out there. I personally use AVG Free, but there's also Antivir, Avast, and countless other programs that you DON'T have to pay for and work just fine.

Why pay $150 over three years unless you're an idiot or just made out of money

2) As for the other software titles, you can find freeware versions of just about any kind of program that you need to use on a PC (I use mostly freeware stuff on my Lenovo ThinkPad).

http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev...&enterthread=y

That being said, I think it was a classy response from Apple. Microsoft needed to do something because of Apple's constant Microsoft bashing over the years.

Microsoft could have done A LOT better with its current Laptop Hunter ads, but they seem to have made at least a bit of an impression and the fact that an Apple rep took the time to even talk about them says a lot.

Microsoft had better not f**k up with Windows 7 or Apple is gonna be all over them like flies on s**t.

[teckstud]

This guy Hesseldahl sounds like a true fanboy. Widows people don't make PC's , electronics companies do.
Notice again how it's always HP and the other bottom of the barell Dell and Gateway- never Sony or Lenovo.

[jpellino]

Send some guy shopping for a car and go right by the 09 Accord, BMW and Camry leaving the lot with an 08 Focus, deliriously happy.

[columbus]

Originally Posted by Mazda 3s

I only have a few things to take issue with

1) Most PC users worth their salt know that there are plenty of freeware AV programs out there. I personally use AVG Free, but there's also Antivir, Avast, and countless other programs that you DON'T have to pay for and work just fine.

Why pay $150 over three years unless you're an idiot or just made out of money

2) As for the other software titles, you can find freeware versions of just about any kind of program that you need to use on a PC (I use mostly freeware stuff on my Lenovo ThinkPad).

Hypothetically speaking, I need to use Macnification and Checkout.

Find me the free PC equivalents... go, go, go!

I notice how often PC software is compared to Mac software in a similar fashion to how the hardware is compared. Provided they tick the same feature boxes - they're the same. Only the Mac software is fewer in number and more expensive!

Less tangible factors (but things that day-to-day make a world of difference) such ease of use, user enjoyment and experience, quality, fit and finish etc. never seem to factor.

Who cares about how many titles there are, in any particular area you will typically only use one and in many cases now the Mac has the best options.

[chronster]

This article is hilarious. The level of arrogance is so astounding it actually amuses me.

[danielchow]

Microsoft really sucks when it comes to PR and advertisement. Plenty of examples that I think everyone already knows about. If I was HP, I'd be really pissed at Microsoft for dragging me into it's PR campaign because their campaign made HP look bad! How? Well, take a look at all the counter arguments. Not only Microsoft have embarrassed itself, it also have embarrassed HP.

SHISH Microsoft, get yourself a new campaigner already!

[charlituna]

Originally Posted by Mazda 3s

I only have a few things to take issue with

these ads aren't targeted at the geeks, they are targeted at the home user with a limited budget and not a lot of desire to go hunting.

so look at it that way

1) Most PC users worth their salt know that there are plenty of freeware AV programs out there. I personally use AVG Free, but there's also Antivir, Avast, and countless other programs that you DON'T have to pay for and work just fine.

but as was pointed out, the typical joe public user isn't going to go digging around for one of these titles. they will grab something off the shelf when they buy the computer. either because they figure something in a box is safer or cause the salesperson wants the additional $50-100 on the sale

2) As for the other software titles, you can find freeware versions of just about any kind of program that you need to use on a PC (I use mostly freeware stuff on my Lenovo ThinkPad).

again, joe ain't gonna do that. the office uses Office so he'll shell out at least $150 for that, maybe double. the kids wanna make music on the computer so he'll grab some $25 program for that. and so on.

as for the folks that said "they should do an I'm a Mac ad" it's not likely to happen. Justin is very likely off contract and no way would he settle for the cheap deal they got last time. better (in the eyes of the bean counters) to go a new route.

[Tofino]

Originally Posted by teckstud

This guy Hesseldahl sounds like a true fanboy. Widows people don't make PC's , electronics companies do.
Notice again how it's always HP and the other bottom of the barell Dell and Gateway- never Sony or Lenovo.

well, you don't see the people in the microsoft commercial finding those sony laptops for under a thousand bucks, do you?

[cameronj]

Originally Posted by Mazda 3s

I only have a few things to take issue with

1) Most PC users worth their salt know that there are plenty of freeware AV programs out there. I personally use AVG Free, but there's also Antivir, Avast, and countless other programs that you DON'T have to pay for and work just fine.

You don't have a very realistic view of the PC market my friend. If you think more than 5% of the market knows about those antivirus programs, you need to get out more.

Originally Posted by Mazda 3s

Why pay $150 over three years unless you're an idiot or just made out of money

2) As for the other software titles, you can find freeware versions of just about any kind of program that you need to use on a PC (I use mostly freeware stuff on my Lenovo ThinkPad).

Uh yeah, no one knows about free office suites. No one except big nerds like this board.

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by chronster

This article is hilarious. The level of arrogance is so astounding it actually amuses me.

It's really actually pathetic- to think an Apple spokesman actually needs to respond and say these things. SJ's leadership is sorely missed.
It's as if Mercedes or BMW responding to a Toyota add or something else as absurd.

[chronster]

Originally Posted by cameronj

You don't have a very realistic view of the PC market my friend. If more than 5% of the market knows about those antivirus programs, you need to get out more.

First Google result for "Free anti virus" was AVG, an excellent AV.

If someone is too stupid to google that, then yeah I recommend a Mac for them

Originally Posted by teckstud

It's really actually pathetic- to think an Apple spokesman actually needs to say these things.

I'm speaking of arrogance on both ends you know. Microsoft's ads are pathetic and not how I would sell PC's. Apple, however, makes it sound as though buying a $700 will require an extra $700 for the user to be happy. This isn't the case. When I say the level of arrogance is astounding, I'm talking about how these two companies view people: as complete brainless morons.

But you know, I partially think they are right. Part of me thinks the masses are morons and should be babied along when they buy a PC or Mac. As a die hard geek I lose sight of how confusing things can get. Take my mom for example. All she wants to do is get on AOL lol.

[TiAdiMundo]

What? The guy said that a notebook that costs more than the double price is better in quality and does offer more? What a genius!

I think most people don't get what the ads really try to tell: important is choice! There are people who don't wanne cut movies, who don't like glossy displays, who don't like gray computers, and if you want: who don't wanne give extra money for extra values. But they all can run the same software. Keep in mind it's a Microsoft ad, not an HP ad.

It's obvious that Apple is not really interested in increasing marked share. That is OK, but why do they complain about this ad then when they don't offer products for such people's needs?

[ncee]

So the next (Apple) ad, should show 2 people each with $1500.00 - told to get:

- a computer with all the software that comes with the Apple

Next scene shows the mac person walking out with a notebook, while the pc person, has his or her hands full of a notebook and several bags with the software, but wait, can they get all of this for $1500.00 …?

Ok, ok, so the ad has to be $1800.00 or whatever. The point will be, what do you really get for your money, or better yet, what do you NOT get for your money?

Somehow, they need to show the PC person, pulling their hair out, installing all of the software, while the Mac person is up and running and ENJOYING the new toy.
Skip

[JohnnyKrz]

Originally Posted by joe in miami

I tell my PC friends the same thing about cheap components and price of software and resolution, but they are happy with their cheap shit.

It's like trying to get someone to go into a wine shop and select a $50 bottle of wine, when they are just as happy with a $10 bottle from the grocery store. It's just not worth the effort.

Great analogy. They'll both give you a buzz. They're both the same color and you drink them from the same glass, but that $50 bottle is probably going to taste a whole lot better (and probably give you a much cleaner buzz). On the other hand, some $50 bottles of wine suck worse than the $10 grocery store bottle. Also, it is really just a matter of opinion when it comes down to it even though you and I may know the real difference which makes our opinion more educated, but still an opinion. I could go on forever with this. For the sake of the analogy, we all know that the $10 bottle in this case is horse piss and the $50 bottle is the most advanced (and yet easiest to use) operating system and hardware that any amount of money can buy.

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by chronster

I'm speaking of arrogance on both ends you know. Microsoft's ads are pathetic and not how I would sell PC's. Apple, however, makes it sound as though buying a $700 will require an extra $700 for the user to be happy. This isn't the case. When I say the level of arrogance is astounding, I'm talking about how these two companies view people: as complete brainless morons.

But you know, I partially think they are right. Part of me thinks the masses are morons and should be babied along when they buy a PC or Mac. As a die hard geek I lose sight of how confusing things can get. Take my mom for example. All she wants to do is get on AOL lol.

Oh I agree 100% - Microsofts adds are ridiculous. they're comparing hardware for all the wrong reasons.
And about your mom- that's so true- that's why most people on here can't understand why a netbook would suffice for the masses.

[linapple_xp]

This response is pathetic. His arguement could have been simple and just stated the capababilities of a Macbook. All of this on and on about BS and fees just isn't true. There is great protection on a pc for free if you are not an idiot. Let's face it, macs are for people in design, people who like cutting edge high end toys, and idiots.

Cheap
Portable
Multi OS
Stable
Free Features that support expression
Free Features that prevent disaster and mitigate recovery

They do need to own up that it sucks for business. And should just state or even package xp and virtualization to a business class. So many people do OO or iWork and then hate their mac.

I love my mac. I runs Bootcamp XP great. I can hook it up with DVI to my home ent system and use it as a media center.

But the company is getting too proprietary and that will be the downfall. No one knows about media center PC's but they kick ass compared to iTunes.

SELL APPL if Jobs doesn't return. He is a genius but his mgmt team is a group of visionless San Fran snobs.

[Virgil-TB2]

Originally Posted by chronster

First Google result for "Free anti virus" was AVG, an excellent AV. ... If someone is too stupid to google that, then yeah I recommend a Mac for them : )... I'm speaking of arrogance on both ends you know. Microsoft's ads are pathetic and not how I would sell PC's. Apple, however, makes it sound as though buying a $700 will require an extra $700 for the user to be happy. This isn't the case. When I say the level of arrogance is astounding, I'm talking about how these two companies view people: as complete brainless morons.

Your just wrong about this.

The fact that you are in a distinct minority, and have a rather unusual view of the situation is proven by the fact that you see "astounding arrogance" in the article when literally no one else does.

I've been in tech support for many years and people generally don't go out and find free anti-virus products on the web, Google or no. They buy one on the recommendation of friends or they buy one on the recommendation of the person fixing their computer at the tech stop. People are generally terrified of viruses and not confident enough about tech to pick out an anti-virus themselves, as (to them) it's a hugely important decision.

PCs don't even *work* without anti-virus (at least not connected to the Internet for more than a few minutes), so it's perfectly valid to include the average cost of anti-virus when figuring out the cost of the whole package.

Even if you were right about people going out and finding free anti-virus (you're not), the cost should be calculated based on what the average windows user spends on anti-virus per year. If some people like yourself spend zero dollars, well that's great. Others will spend hundreds on anti-virus though and the *average* cost of what is spent is a valid "add-on cost to a windows computer when doing these kinds of calculations.

Finally, your implied assertion that Mac users are "dumb" is really off-base considering that more Mac users are professionals, more Mac users have higher education etc. Also, Microsoft is purposely targeting dumb "average" PC users with this campaign and purposely *not* targeting knowledgeable professionals.

The ads more or less say:

"You're not very rich, you're not very cool, and you're not that technologically competent, so ... a PC is just right for you! They're cheap!"

[shavex]

Statements I take issue with:

"With its great designs and advanced software, nothing matches it at any price."

Except Psystar :P

"while pointing out that Apple offers free help from its retail stores' Genius Bar."

Yea sure you can take it to them and they will tell you to buy ANOTHER Mac or they wont touch it unless you paid for AppleCare.

"the Windows guys ought to take the hint and just build better computers."

The original article was written to attack specifically HP, while if Hesseldahl was someone worth noting he would have done his research and realized that Apple just hired IBM's top chip expert. So obviously IBM builds GREAT machines for cheap they just arent pretty looking. Which paying hundreds of dollars for looks is totally up to personal preference and not everyone wants a pretty laptop that will die in 3 years.

I use to support the underdog (Apple) for being different and better, but since they are climbing the ladder they are acting like they are the Big Dog and everyone else sucks. I mean how annoying is a bunch of cocky script kiddies?

[cameronj]

Originally Posted by chronster

First Google result for "Free anti virus" was AVG, an excellent AV.

Here's a story for you, because you clearly don't understand the level of computer savvy of the average person.

My client called me and told me that their AVG (which I had installed) was expiring and they were being urged to renew for $40. I told them no need to worry, just search for AVG free and that will take you to get the new version. I was on the other line, so I left them to go to it.

20 minutes later I got another call from that person saying that they had installed it, but they didn't understand why it now said they had antivirus 2009 on their computer.

Well, after going to their house and cleaning that spyware, I pieced together what happened. You can do it yourself - go to MSN (most peoples' home page, since most people use IE and MSN is the home page by default) and type AVG. See if you can spot the link for Antivirus 2009. You can probably figure out what happened from there.

Originally Posted by chronster

But you know, I partially think they are right. Part of me thinks the masses are morons and should be babied along when they buy a PC or Mac. As a die hard geek I lose sight of how confusing things can get. Take my mom for example. All she wants to do is get on AOL lol.

Yes, you've lost sight of how confusing things can get. You apparently think that the amount of the market that is like your mom is small. It's just about everyone.

[christopher126]

Originally Posted by teckstud

This guy Hesseldahl sounds like a true fanboy. Widows people don't make PC's , electronics companies do.
Notice again how it's always HP and the other bottom of the barell Dell and Gateway- never Sony or Lenovo.

My daughter had a Sony Viao, $2,000 's of junk, finally convinced her to get a powerbook 12" g4 for college and a MBA for Medical School! (Sorry! Had to get Med school in there-Fortunately got her mother's brains) and she has never looked back.

It's not just the second-rate "windows" hardware, it's the second-rate Windows OS! And the combo is sub-par at best! LOL

[columbus]

Originally Posted by charlituna

again, joe ain't gonna do that. the office uses Office so he'll shell out at least $150 for that, maybe double. the kids wanna make music on the computer so he'll grab some $25 program for that. and so on.

Or iTunes.

Although many Windows enthusiasts will bemoan iTunes and the other “junk” it installs (like Bonjour - zero configuration networking - something Windows networking is too primitive to handle out of the box) and Quicktime (the multimedia framework behind Final Cut, iLife and a technical achievement far in advance of anything on the PC side when it launched. By the time Quicktime X arrives many of its genuine faults will have been ironed out long before anyone else has a better solution) many Windows users seem quite happy to use it every day and it is by far the most popular digital music player for the PC.

The PC equivalent most often triumphed is WinAMP, which has a UI still stick in the 90s (you can skin it though!). Money is charged if you want to rip CDS faster than 8x, rip AAC at a higher bit rate than 128K or (my favourite) burn a CD faster than 2x.

[Quadra 610]

"A PC is no bargain."


All this frothing-at-the-mouth bargain hunting because it's a recession needs to end.

You weren't that crazy about those bargains when times were good, right? Those same reasons don't magically disappear when you've got less money to spend.

People are looking to save money on the wrong things and end up getting burned.

Or maybe crap looks a lot better in this economic climate. After all, how can so many flies be wrong?

[echosonic]

Originally Posted by jpellino

Send some guy shopping for a car and go right by the 09 Accord, BMW and Camry leaving the lot with an 08 Focus, deliriously happy.

HAHahahahahahahaha....that's the best analogy yet.

[iReality85]

I find his responses to be rather snarky and trite, IMO. Most people realize what they're buying into these days when choosing a computer. And the anti-virus issue? So what, big deal. Most of the companies out there allow multiple usages per software key for their security suites. I'm 24 years old, and I install Zone Alarm (which is an excellent antivirus/spyware program) for my PC, which is paid for annually by my father, and I get any/all upgrades free throughout the year. For $50 a year, its well worth it, especially when I don't even have to pay for it. I am willing to extrapolate this further and say that many PC users do this, and sharing product keys among relatives is common practice anyway. And even college undergrads get antivirus/spyware software for free by their institutions. So the issue that Macs come with built in security is a moot point, IMO.

[NOFEER]

how about OS upgrade cost per enterprise or consumer, the cost of keeping up to date with virus attacks, time is money, worry costs money and how many neophytes don't update virus protection or scan and botnet meat they become, i have less hassle using, living, recommending mac
when people ask me about netbooks the marketing is about cheap, not ability, when people ask me about computer purchases, i first ask what they want to do almost to the person they say they want to video edit from their new hard drive video, or snap time video, photo manipulation like scrapbooking, email, net use. when they talk about this and want to look into a netbook, i have all kinds of conditions "first you must do this or that...don't plug into net without active virus, malware protection (few do) no netbooks are cheap but do very simple things conditions, explanations several layers thick
then i say, just get a mac, macbook (i recommend the white with firewire)
just get a mac is a very powerful, non-conditional response, it will take care of you
simple, people don't believe it then i send them to a apple store, then i say its as simple as your ipod to use, keep, update, live with.
macs just work and work well, i tell them of how my 3 year old taught my wife how to use itunes and ichat av , then they say wow!!! and i say it will last many years and still have resale value
how about the story of the women who found the thieves that stole her mac? they love that
apple is easy to recommend they won't have buyer's remorse

i tell them that i've had macs since 84 and since then of all the macs i have owned, only ONE TIME have i had to have a tech work on my mac( and it was my fault, i messed up a firmware update and my screen went blank), now that is durable, reliable, quality

you want to live with a yugo or a honda