Apple proposes iTunes kiosks for movie downloads on the go

[AppleInsider]

Apple has put some effort into conceptualizing a family of next-generation wireless iTunes kiosks that can be placed just about anywhere, allowing users of its portable products to load their devices with a new full-length movie or audio album during travel, in areas where wireless networks may be unavailable.

The concept turned up in a 19-page patent filing discovered by AppleInsider this week, which begins by outlining some of the common problems with conventional media distribution kiosks, namely that they require users to pair their media devices and portable products via a physical connection that could prove troublesome or damaging.

"The continuous engagement and disengagement of the media device connector may result in excessive wear and failure of the connector," Apple explains. "Also, because certain media distribution systems may be located in public places, a connector of the media distribution system may be exposed to tampering by users or excessive exposure to environmental conditions."

The company adds that using a traditional and open WiFi connection may be one alternative, but says this too presents a variety of problems, such as the potential for eavesdropping, hacking, and overloading when an excessive numbers of devices attempt to access the same wireless connection.

Apple's solution to this problem, and the core of its patent filing, is to therefore establish "a virtual physical connection" between the kiosk and media device, whereby the kiosk first has a means of determining the physical presence of the media device in its proximity and then establishes a wireless data channel with the media device.

The kiosks themselves would be tied into a two-prong distribution system that may include a local media server filled with popular media that users are most likely to purchase, such as new album and movie releases, thereby making them most readily accessible.



Supplementing the local media server would be a connection between the kiosk and the iTunes Store, which would provide broad access all the audio and video media available through the digital download service. Users could provide their iTunes login and password to download content they select using the keyboard and screen on the kiosk, or swipe their credit card to buy content that may be more readily accessible on the local media server.

These kiosks would be particularly useful for users who are traveling, don't have access to a wireless connection to access the iTunes Store, but wish to load their iPod, iPhone, computer, or tablet device with a movie or audio album before -- or even after -- boarding a flight, ship or train, Apple says.



"The media distribution system advantageously enables the distribution of media content to a media device via a [media distribution kiosk] residing in virtually any location such as an airport, hotel, stadium, train station, shopping mall, stores, planes, ships, public transportation vehicles, and the like," the company wrote in the filing. "Even a wireless media device may have limited or no access to a particular wireless service provider's data network in certain geographic areas or locations. Thus, a [media distribution kiosk] may enable the media device to access the media distribution system even where a wireless service provider's network is not available."

The Apple employee credited with the filing is Thomas Mavrakakis.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[sjgelman]

How about a link to the actual application or providing the application number, so we can look at it ourselves?

As a patent attorney it drives me nuts when you guys do this. It's like you're trying to hide something.

[al_bundy]

are these like the vending machines in airports that sell ipods?

[Kasper]

Originally Posted by sjgelman

How about a link to the actual application or providing the application number, so we can look at it ourselves?

As a patent attorney it drives me nuts when you guys do this. It's like you're trying to hide something.

I added it, chill out man. All you have to do is ask.

K

[krreagan]

"...but wish to load their iPod, iPhone, computer, or tablet device with a movie or audio album before..."

Did Apple really mention a "tablet device"??? I know they exist outside of Apple but do you suppose this is a hint that Apple is working on a tablet?

[Roc Ingersol]

Originally Posted by sjgelman

How about a link to the actual application or providing the application number, so we can look at it ourselves?

I absolutely agree with you.

But as a patent attorney, doesn't it take you all of 3 additional seconds to figure this out? (a quick "PD/05-07-2009 and AN/Apple" and look at that: 2009/0117846)

And as a vaguely Apple-interested patent attorney -- not to mention one who's already frustrated with this behavior from AI -- shouldn't you have your own weekly watches for Apple's issued and published?

Might save some aggravation.

[Kasper]

Originally Posted by krreagan

"...but wish to load their iPod, iPhone, computer, or tablet device with a movie or audio album before..."

Did Apple really mention a "tablet device"??? I know they exist outside of Apple but do you suppose this is a hint that Apple is working on a tablet?

They mentioned in the list of applicable devices a "Pocket-sized personal computers such as an iPAQ.RTM. Pocket PC available by Hewlett Packard Inc. , of Palo Alto, Calif. and any other device capable of communicating wirelessly (with or without the aid of a wireless enabling accessory system). " The patent would apply to any kind of portable computing device.

K

[Kasper]

Originally Posted by Roc Ingersol

I absolutely agree with you.

But as a patent attorney, doesn't it take you all of 3 additional seconds to figure this out? (a quick "PD/05-07-2009 and AN/Apple" and look at that: 2009/0117846)

And as a vaguely Apple-interested patent attorney -- not to mention one who's already frustrated with this behavior from AI -- shouldn't you have your own weekly watches for Apple's issued and published?

Might save some aggravation.

Didn't realize this was frustrating so many people. We'll link in the patents going forward.

Sorry,

K

[Johnny Mozzarella]

Apple's Answer to RedBox?

[bsolar]

I recall a couple years ago someone, and it was possibly on some other site like this, made the comment that Apple should buy Blockbuster and place a kiosk in each one to sell video and audio, allowing a consumer to walk in and connect to the kiosk with their iPod and quickly download what they wanted. The other aspect of the idea was that it would be an outlet for Apple to install and deploy its server hardware and networking equipment in each store. The stores would have the inventory online and not need to performa remote download, thus making the process quick.

If this idea is somehow being revived by Apple themselves, maybe they will have these kiosks in the Apple Stores and other retailers, airports, and who knows they might just consider buying up one of these brick and mortar video rental stores and replacing the shleves of videos with the Red Box DVD vending machines, you wouldn't need the floor space the traditional stores requires and all you would need is a single person to run the whole show.

This is certainly an intersting idea nad piece of information from Apple.

[NOFEER]

why deal with all that overhead, BB is dead, local video will die slowly since now you can get a dvd from a kiosk at grocery stores and walmart. the problem? they have limited dvd and few in number at a busy store. BUT if connected to itunes store then you can get what ever you want
a kiosk can only need to be the size of a atm, or just sign to tell you to connect your wifi for free and the home page lets you download. so the physical size can be nothing but signage.

[Johnny Mozzarella]

Originally Posted by bsolar

I recall a couple years ago someone, and it was possibly on some other site like this, made the comment that Apple should buy Blockbuster and place a kiosk in each one to sell video and audio, allowing a consumer to walk in and connect to the kiosk with their iPod and quickly download what they wanted. The other aspect of the idea was that it would be an outlet for Apple to install and deploy its server hardware and networking equipment in each store. The stores would have the inventory online and not need to performa remote download, thus making the process quick.

If this idea is somehow being revived by Apple themselves, maybe they will have these kiosks in the Apple Stores and other retailers, airports, and who knows they might just consider buying up one of these brick and mortar video rental stores and replacing the shleves of videos with the Red Box DVD vending machines, you wouldn't need the floor space the traditional stores requires and all you would need is a single person to run the whole show.

This is certainly an intersting idea nad piece of information from Apple.

Apple would not partner or buy a "sinking ship" like Blockbuster.
A more likely candidate would be Starbucks.

According to wikipedia: "16,120 stores in 49 countries, including around 11,000 in the United States, followed by nearly 1,000 in Canada and more than 800 in Japan."

[Johnny Mozzarella]

Originally Posted by NOFEER

why deal with all that overhead, BB is dead, local video will die slowly since now you can get a dvd from a kiosk at grocery stores and walmart. the problem? they have limited dvd and few in number at a busy store. BUT if connected to itunes store then you can get what ever you want
a kiosk can only need to be the size of a atm, or just sign to tell you to connect your wifi for free and the home page lets you download. so the physical size can be nothing but signage.

I think the perfect interface would be a Microsoft Surface in every Starbucks. you can do the entire transaction and payment on a big ass box.

[sjgelman]

Originally Posted by Roc Ingersol

I absolutely agree with you.

But as a patent attorney, doesn't it take you all of 3 additional seconds to figure this out? (a quick "PD/05-07-2009 and AN/Apple" and look at that: 2009/0117846)

And as a vaguely Apple-interested patent attorney -- not to mention one who's already frustrated with this behavior from AI -- shouldn't you have your own weekly watches for Apple's issued and published?

Might save some aggravation.

Sure, I could look it up myself, but I didn't write the article. I figure that would be basic info to include.

And I did have a site up for about 8 months or so about Apple patents (the now-defunct appleipwatch.info). It took way too much time (since I only worked on that after regular work hours) and it was barely read.

[bloggerblog]

Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella

Apple's Answer to RedBox?

iTunes is better than RedBox in that you can immediately get your movie from home (Computer, Apple TV), but still RedBox costs only $1

[Johnny Mozzarella]

Originally Posted by Roc Ingersol

I absolutely agree with you.

Dude! I totally love your name! Are you an action hero? Your name certainly qualifies you.

[Johnny Mozzarella]

Originally Posted by bloggerblog

iTunes is better than RedBox in that you can immediately get your movie from home (Computer, Apple TV), but still RedBox costs only $1

And with the help of our friends at Handbrake you can archive it for future reference.

[bsolar]

I don't disagree that BB might not be the right target, and Starbucks would be better. The point I was making is that with the hardware capabilities and marketing savy of Apple, they could put a whole new spin on movie rentals. Bring in your iPod or iPhone rent a movie and play it on your TV at home. The era of large square footage retialing of movies and music is over. In my opinion.

[paxman]

Wow, what a weird idea. So physical... so 80's... If these media centers have all sorts of digital content like digital books for sony e-readers and Kindles as well, they may be more useful. Seems like a lot of investment for not that many sales - or maybe people will queue up to buy. I just don't see it, somehow. Specially not at a shopping mall. Who brings their laptops to the mall?

A vending machine which loads up a cheap usb drive - provided by the machine, or to a usb drive plugged in by the user might be a better idea. Then you can bring the media home and load it onto the device of your choice.

Also, and most importantly for me, unless the thing offers movies for rent it is useless. Why would I buy a movie?

[eAi]

Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella

I think the perfect interface would be a Microsoft Surface in every Starbucks. you can do the entire transaction and payment on a big ass box.

... covered in coffee stains...

I can't really see what this offered that's different from a Wifi point and iTunes (on the iPhone/iPod Touch). If you have to actually dock with it, I can see some benefits, but then Apple would need to sort out syncing from multiple computers to one device - something I'd really like.

[Feynman]

Originally Posted by iStink

I'm not immediately seeing the benefits of these kiosks.

This would be so people could just stop in at a 7-11 or whatever and buy a cd to load up onto their ipod or zune? Or perhaps a movie for their notebook?

I'm sure it would produce revenue, so there's no reason not to I guess. It would be like a movie and music ATM lol.

Not at 7-11 but maybe at say, the train station. imagine, if you're at the train station and you have your iPod or iPhone or MacBook and you're in the mood for a movie for your long journey from point A to point G. Well there you go, you can now get a movie before you leave!

I think that's what they're aiming for.

[Johnny Mozzarella]

Originally Posted by bsolar

I don't disagree that BB might not be the right target, and Starbucks would be better. The point I was making is that with the hardware capabilities and marketing savy of Apple, they could put a whole new spin on movie rentals. Bring in your iPod or iPhone rent a movie and play it on your TV at home. The era of large square footage retialing of movies and music is over. In my opinion.

If you are going to play it on your TV at home, Apple wants you to rent it at home on your computer or AppleTV.

This is geared for the traveler who wants a movie for a long flight.
They can rent the movie at the Starbucks in the terminal or if the airline supports it right at their seat.
Or they can rent the movie from the kiosk in the lobby as they are checking into their hotel.
This is geared to people who won't be watching it at home.

[Virgil-TB2]

Originally Posted by iStink

I'm not immediately seeing the benefits of these kiosks.

This would be so people could just stop in at a 7-11 or whatever and buy a cd to load up onto their ipod or zune? Or perhaps a movie for their notebook?

I'm sure it would produce revenue, so there's no reason not to I guess. It would be like a movie and music ATM lol.

My first thought was that this was about the way iPhones will soon be able to recognise each other. The idea being that as you walk by one of these things in an airport it would know you were standing in front of it with your iPod and maybe even call your name and display stuff that it knows you like from it's profile of you. In that way this could be just one of those patents where Apple is trying to lock up all the ideas they can think of that relate to uses of their product so no one else can say they did it first.

The iPaq reference troubles me though and the whole idea of multimedia kiosks or kiosks of any kind is so passé (everywhere except Japan), that it now strikes me as just a lame 1990's sort of idea in general. Apple does patent or attempt to patent a ton of stuff and most of it is never acted upon. I would bet there is a certain amount of competition among Apple engineers and given the amount of patents applied for a great deal of pressure to come up with the odd patent-able idea. Not every idea is even capable of being written up in a form that the patent office will consider and not every application they consider is accepted.

[wilco]

Originally Posted by iStink

I'm not immediately seeing the benefits of these kiosks.

Originally Posted by iStink

I'm sure it would produce revenue, so there's no reason not to I guess.

Great post!

[pinheadj]

What I would like to see even before kiosks is a way to remove music from your iPhone without syncing with your computer. I generally keep my iPhone at or around capacity, so if I am away from home and want to grab something new (either from the iTunes store or a future kiosk) I would need to be able to remove content first to make room. Especially if I wanted to download a movie or something of significant size.

[pixelcruncher]

If the airlines were smart this would be on airplanes and they partner with either Apple or Amazon. Why run around looking for an Apple kiosk when you know there's everything you need on the airplane itself? Movies, music, e-books, and games. Amazing that airlines have the most captive audiences available to them every day, and they haven't figured out how to take advantage of that beyond showing TV reruns and a hoping passengers pick up "Skymall" catalogs.

[dagamer34]

Hopefully you stick in a DVD+DL and it burns a much higher quality 720p video for you (with DRM of course), that you can copy on your computer to play. Cost of actual media is maybe $2, and would readily solve the bandwidth problem.

[fartheststar]

Originally Posted by al_bundy

are these like the vending machines in airports that sell ipods?

Funny you say that. I was at JFK and I wanted to download LOST to pass the time. I couldn't - because I couldn't find an iTunes gift certificate in the airport (was travelling from Toronto to Britain). Even if I could have just "rented" a movie from an iTunes Kiosk, that'd be much better than bringing physical media on my trip.

[fartheststar]

Originally Posted by Kasper

Didn't realize this was frustrating so many people. We'll link in the patents going forward.

Sorry,

K

Doesn't frustrate me at all :-)
Some good feedback.
Thanks for running this site and keep up the good work.

Originally Posted by sjgelman

Sure, I could look it up myself, but I didn't write the article. I figure that would be basic info to include.

And I did have a site up for about 8 months or so about Apple patents (the now-defunct appleipwatch.info). It took way too much time (since I only worked on that after regular work hours) and it was barely read.

Maybe not so many people are interested in looking at patents, just reading news about them. Just a thought.

[leejad]

Is this to cover Wifi roll-out costs with a revenue stream? Blanket high-traffic zones with connectivity. Pay for the costs with revenues from media sales.

Eventually, I could shut down my home phone account (yay!!), and switch to "iPhone Home" only. Let's say, instead of cell, it is Wifi Skype-like. It works on my airport extreme at home.

And at the Train station, airport, shopping mall, the bus, my car....

It would be expensive to roll out such coverage, obviously. Hello, media revenues. Hello mass partnership potential (would you like free connectivity...?)

And free iPhone Home to iPhone iPhone Home calling for me! ("Hi honey... you want the new Star Wars tonight... oh... the Chick Flick? Oh. Ummm... how about both?)

I guess you could connect other device, too...

Is this likely?

[fartheststar]

Originally Posted by pixelcruncher

If the airlines were smart this would be on airplanes and they partner with either Apple or Amazon. Why run around looking for an Apple kiosk when you know there's everything you need on the airplane itself? Movies, music, e-books, and games. Amazing that airlines have the most captive audiences available to them every day, and they haven't figured out how to take advantage of that beyond showing TV reruns and a hoping passengers pick up "Skymall" catalogs.

I agree. Right now they have On Demand Programming for first class on the recent Delta flight I took. I was not in first class. On WestJet in Canada, in economy you get the choice of 4 movies on pay per view in the seat back, it's not on demand, you have to order it within the first 10 minutes of the flight.

This solution would satisfy both first class and economy, and itd be nice to watch it on your computer or seatback (if the flight supported it), and be able to pause, etc.... and finish it later... at your hotel....

[solipsism]

I've been wanting this device for years now. I've rented those mini-DVD players many times in previous years at airports. The ones you use locally or can take ona plane and then drop at certain airports. They were expensive, but worth every penny if you are bored, and limited. Buying and rented media that that you can watch on your iDevice is a much simple business model if you can figure out how to make it secure. I hope these come out soon, especially if they have full access to the iTS or at least the previous week's TV shows so a traveler can keep up to date. Paying $1.99 for an episode you'll watch once doesn't seem so bad when you sitting in a terminal.

Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella

Apple's Answer to RedBox?

As a kiosk-based competitor to RedBox, I'd say no. Idon't think the market for going to an iTunes Store kiosk to DL media onto your iDevice to then play on your TV would worth the effort when most people could just DL it from iTS. But even that is limited if you don't have a way to connect to your computer. RedBox is cool for what it does. A year or two ago they averaged over $30k/year per kiosk.

[Roc Ingersol]

Originally Posted by sjgelman

Sure, I could look it up myself, but I didn't write the article. I figure that would be basic info to include.

Still agreeing with you.
I just thought you might be able to easily make use of the services that would email notifications to you when new patents/publications are released that match search criteria.

Originally Posted by Kasper

Didn't realize this was frustrating so many people.

I don't know if there's many people who know/care about the details. But, personally, I've learned to just ignore tech stories about patents until I've read the claims. So I'd certainly appreciate at least the patent/serial number.
(News sites tend to focus on the abstract and description, which aren't really important. It's all about the claims.)

Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella

I think the perfect interface would be a Microsoft Surface in every Starbucks.

I don't think the 'perfect' interface involves a Microsoft user experience.
I'm sure they'd churn out a Touch OSX variant for tighter control and integration.
(... and for a number of years I did write 'superhero' as my profession on my IRS filings.)

[Cubert]

This is not the first time that Apple has filed a patent on this idea. I vaguely remember something similar from a few years ago before the iPods gained video playback abilities.

[hngfr]

i wonder if apple can get the kiosk ON the airplane,
and then offer the uncut version of the movies playing on in flight entertainment, for download.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by Roc Ingersol

I don't think the 'perfect' interface involves a Microsoft user experience.
I'm sure they'd churn out a Touch OSX variant for tighter control and integration.
(... and for a number of years I did write 'superhero' as my profession on my IRS filings.)

If these kiosks are made by a 3rd party the most likely OS, based on history, is Windows... but I can't see Apple being okay with that.

[gmcalpin]

Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella

Apple would not partner or buy a "sinking ship" like Blockbuster.
A more likely candidate would be Starbucks.

Apple-bashers will have a field day with a Starbucks partnership as underscoring the "typical" Mac user's "effete, latte-sipping" image (as I saw someone derisively put it), but...

...that would be brilliant. Completely out of left field, but still brilliant.

Originally Posted by solipsism

Paying $1.99 for an episode you'll watch once does seem so bad when you sitting in a terminal.

...while eating a $12 sandwich and drinking a $8 beer, it definitely doesn't.

(I'm assuming you meant "doesn't.")

[wizard69]

I'm affraid though a big box with half the iTunes data base on it would be the same as painting steal me on it. This device would have to be built like and installed like a bank ATM machine.

In any event I could see this as potentially being successful especially if they can get their own RF allotment. The problem is this; when I've needed similar services like this (stuck in an Airport) there are usually thousands of others there delayed also. When that happens the WiFi is so congested as to be almost unusable. That is an extreme case but on the other hand one would most likely want such a service when snow bound at an Airport.

Outside of a travel situation I could see this as a successful venture if the kiosk also provided web access. Around where I live there simply are to few WiFi hot spots. So if this could in some way give businesses a way to pay for that hot spot or at least significantly reduce the non income producing expense I could see up take.

A few months ago I went iPhone only for my phone and Internet. This to greatly reduce out of pocket expenses and to reduce the number of bills to keep track of. Of corse I still need fast Internet access from time to time which is why I think offfering Internet access through this device would be grand. As it is though the bulk of me transfers of recent times involve iTunes data. So the more places to pick up that data the better. It isn't just movies either, apps, pod casts and other things come via iTunes. What I'm saying is that filtering the system to supply just movies or limited media types isn't going to do it. All of iTunes needs to be supported.

I'd be supportive if the kiosks spread WiFi hot spots


Dave

[Johnny Mozzarella]

Originally Posted by Roc Ingersol

I don't think the 'perfect' interface involves a Microsoft user experience.
I'm sure they'd churn out a Touch OSX variant for tighter control and integration.

Originally Posted by solipsism

If these kiosks are made by a 3rd party the most likely OS, based on history, is Windows... but I can't see Apple being okay with that.

It was joke.
Apple using Microsoft Surface really?
Only in Bizzaro World, and even then it wouldn't make sense.

[Roc Ingersol]

Originally Posted by solipsism

If these kiosks are made by a 3rd party

The only way I can see Apple farming this out, is if the devices themselves have no client-facing interface to speak of. If it were a glorified wifi hotspot with an iTunes local cache -- and all searching/navigating is done by the client device -- maybe. But in that case, even if it did run Windows, the user experience wouldn't be from Microsoft. Which is all I was saying.

Kiosks could do killer business at not only coffee houses and transit hubs, but hotels, convention centers, vacation destinations (cruise ships/theme parks), events (fairs, concerts, races), tourist attractions (tour companion apps, local city guides, park guides), etc.

Basically: anywhere you have events with lots of waiting in line, regular downtime or just when you have a captive audience you'd like to milk a few more opportunistic bucks from.