AT&T pins neutered SlingPlayer on iPhone not being a phone

[AppleInsider]

In a curiously worded statement, AT&T has claimed it prevented the iPhone version of SlingPlayer from using 3G because it would chew too much data -- and because the iPhone is, oddly, not considered a phone.

The short message justifies the decision to allow Sling Media's remote streaming only without 3G use by first noting that a Slingbox consumes a large amount of bandwidth on AT&T's cellular towers and could "prevent other customers from using the network."

However, it's here that the wireless provider's argument takes an unusual turn. As mentioned by Engadget, AT&T specifically cites its terms of service -- which have flip-flopped over the past several weeks -- as preventing users from re-routing a TV signal through the 3G connection to a personal computer. But rather than add smartphones to the clause, the company tries to fit the iPhone into this category by claiming that it's too powerful to be a regular smartphone.

"Applications like this, which redirect a TV signal to a personal computer, are specifically prohibited under our terms of service," AT&T claims. "We consider smartphones like the iPhone to be personal computers in that they have the same hardware and software attributes as PCs."

Instead, the carrier says, iPhone owners should be content to stream Slingbox video when away from home through the free Wi-Fi access they have at certain public locations, such as Starbucks coffee shops. Web video streams are also allowed.

The stance has already come under fire as evidence of a double standard at AT&T. Where the iPhone app is restricted to Wi-Fi, the BlackBerry Bold and several Windows Mobile phones are explicitly allowed to run their respective versions of SlingPlayer on the same 3G network in a compatibility list Sling maintains on its own. Some phones offered by AT&T outside of this list also run SlingPlayer and, again, aren't given the same restrictions.

Additionally, numerous iPhone apps like Joost or Ustream permit long, contiinuous video streams with bandwidth requirements not unlike those of SlingPlayer.

As such, many already view the seemingly arbitrary treatment of the iPhone as more a reflection of AT&T's ability to support an especially popular device with streaming video on its network than any actual concerns about the iPhone being too powerful to be counted among normal smartphones. The Dallas-based firm has been sued multiple times for allegedly overselling its iPhone 3G speeds and is frequently the subject of criticism in New York City and San Francisco, where the dense concentrations of iPhone users have in many cases made the 3G network all but unusable, dropping calls or reverting to 2G even in strong coverage.

For its part, AT&T has lately been promising significant upgrades to its 3G and is believed to be preparing a major, comprehensive speed upgrade on Apple's behest for May 31st -- just over a week before WWDC and before a new generation of iPhone is likely to push 3G usage even higher.

[Gyokuro]

WIth its amazing amount of apps and horrible "phone" service in my area, the iPhone name is quickly becoming a unique single word oxymoron as you can do almost anything on it but make a decent f*cking call. I don't know whether to scream or continue to be mystified by Apple's clear leadership in this arena. I hate to continue to the AT&T sucks blathering, but a single carrier REALLY IS screwing the potential of this little device.

[brucep]

Originally Posted by Gyokuro

WIth its amazing amount of apps and horrible "phone" service in my area, the iPhone name is quickly becoming a unique single word oxymoron as you can do almost anything on it but make a decent f*cking call. I don't know whether to scream or continue to be mystified by Apple's clear leadership in this arena. I hate to continue to the AT&T sucks blathering, but a single carrier REALLY IS screwing the potential of this little device.

HEY GO OUT SIDE right now and buy a zune

[iPond317]

What a bunch of bs!

[ATT-FTL]

http://twitter.com/IphonersHateATT

FOLLOW THIS TWIT TO PROTEST AT&T'S TREATMENT OF IPHONE APPS!

[boss1]

I'm done with AT&T as of this. Not only is the action pure hypocrisy , they now have the nerve to release a PR statement to shed light on it.

[bloggerblog]

oh I can't wait to jump ship... screw att.

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by iPond317

What a bunch of bs!

AT&T (the patch network) sucks and is ripping off Apple customers..
I'm so glad I have an iPod Touch and don't have to put up with their BULL$H*T.

[KT Walrus]

I'm going into my AT&T store and complain about this. I will terminate my plan with them if nothing changes in the next week or two.

To limit my use of their data network from apps I want to use is unacceptable. I'd rather they cap my network usage to whatever amount they want for my $30/month than to restrict the type of applications I can use (and are available).

Apple needs to put its foot down on this one or they are going to have to not renew exclusivity with AT&T. We need some competition here so we can use our iPhones the way we want.

[randythot]

It's tough to imagine network saturation during normal usage in the largest density metro areas, since I haven't been there.
It's got to be a huge headache for AT&T, and Apple; I'm sure they've maxed out towers as it's probably more about the crowded frequency?
But I would imagine those problems would only be exacerbated magnitude fold with SlingPlayer over 3G on the iPhone.

BTW, this sounds like a great backhanded compliment/ad campaign?
Also, it should cause AT&T more worry...their public admission will help raise support for Apple to expand carriers.

[teckstud]

Well Steve Jobs did say it was the best iPod ever created and not a phone per se.

[Samnuva]

AT&T Supplies the iPhone with the ability to make calls. It is therefore a phone. AT&T actually seems to be claiming that despite the fact they give it a certain functionality, it does not fall under the umbrella of other devices which they let do exactly the same thing. Also, I think I should point out that in their advertising, AT&T calls the iPhone a smartphone.

[teckstud]

For its part, AT&T has lately been promising significant upgrades to its 3G and is believed to be preparing a major, comprehensive speed upgrade on Apple's behest for May 31st -- just over a week before WWDC and before a new generation of iPhone is likely to push 3G usage even higher.

You forgot to add how much their usage keeps increasing with their relentless advertising of their 3G network along with other 3G phones - especially Blackberries, etc.

[phrint]

Apple needs to stop restricting application features and aggressively upgrade their networks with those iPhone dollars. This is pure corporate greed at work here. AT&T will loose rights to the iPhone soon as Apple will only look foolish for so long. I have an iPhone 3G and live in Ohio. I get a great 3G signal in most places where I go. However, AT&T's network should have been built out quite some time ago once the first-gen iPhone came out. How will AT&T be able to support a 3rd gen iPhone that will increase 3G traffic many times over? Sounds like some poor business planning and modeling to me.

[bloggerblog]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

"We consider smartphones like the iPhone to be personal computers in that they have the same hardware and software attributes as PCs."

ok then why can't we tether to our laptops for free again?

[Virgil-TB2]

Originally Posted by iPond317

What a bunch of bs!

Originally Posted by ATT-FTL

http://twitter.com/IphonersHateATT

FOLLOW THIS TWIT TO PROTEST AT&T'S TREATMENT OF IPHONE APPS!

Originally Posted by boss1

I'm done with AT&T as of this. Not only is the action pure hypocrisy , they now have the nerve to release a PR statement to shed light on it.

Originally Posted by bloggerblog

oh I can't wait to jump ship... screw att.

These responses are ridiculous.

AT&T says they can't handle the traffic and people are responding by saying that their network sucks, but that they don't believe them? What's not to believe? Sounds reasonable to me.

sure it's not fair that they allow other platforms to do it, but the reality is there are like three people who want to do it on those other platforms and it's not likely there will ever be more. They will allow it on the iPhone eventually, there's no reason to get so unreasonably upset over something that's fairly obvious like this. At least they are being honest with you by saying that they can't handle the traffic.

[winterspan]

I'm beyond ridiculing AT&T's crappy 3G network, so I won't even go there... The real issue that pisses me off is the fact that:

It's one thing for the carriers to advertise "unlimited data" when in reality it is limited to 5GB.

It's a whole other leap into idiocy for them to actually place restrictions on what you can do with that 5GB of data!

And then to use their partnership with Apple and Apple's monopoly on App sales to force Sling to modify their application? It is just lunacy!

It's time to break up the AT&T iPhone monopoly!

[Joshua Fleetwood]

Randall Stephenson, AT&T CEO
rs2982@att.com (direct)
randall.stephenson@att.com
phone: 210-351-5401 (direct to his secretary)
fax 210-351-3553
alternate phone: 210-821-4105 (headquarters, press 3, ask for Mr. Stephenson's office)
175 E. Houston
San Antonio, TX 78205


Let him know how you feel.

[anantksundaram]

People need to catch a breath and cut ATT a little slack (granted, they are not making it easy for someone to defend them with their inanely stupid PR).

"Unlimited" is not - cannot be - unlimited if everyone treats it like it's unlimited. There is no capacity for that in any system of any kind. It's like a restaurant that says "eat all you can for $5.95" and suddenly, busloads of very hungry, obese people show up for lunch.......

Capacity costs money to provide. And, there are externalities and spillover effects involved, since your downloads affect my speeds.

For anyone who wants to understand this better, I recommend the Econ 101 concept of the 'tragedy of the commons.' (For the short-attention-span version, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons; for the real thing, see http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/reprint/162/3859/1243.pdf).

[solipsism]

How many people here actually own a SlingBox? Why is no one complaining about the cost of the app yet there will be rampant complaining when Apple charges $10 for the iPod Touch 3.0 update.

Originally Posted by ATT-FTL

http://twitter.com/IphonersHateATT

FOLLOW THIS TWIT TO PROTEST AT&T'S TREATMENT OF IPHONE APPS!

This protest will be immediately followed by a sit-in... in their basement.

Originally Posted by KT Walrus

I'm going into my AT&T store and complain about this. I will terminate my plan with them if nothing changes in the next week or two.

If you want to terminate plan, go right ahead and be sure to explain your reason for canceling when you're asked, but don't go bitching and whining at an $8/hr retail clerk.

Originally Posted by phrint

Apple needs to stop restricting application features and aggressively upgrade their networks with those iPhone dollars. This is pure corporate greed at work here. AT&T will loose rights to the iPhone soon as Apple will only look foolish for so long. I have an iPhone 3G and live in Ohio. I get a great 3G signal in most places where I go. However, AT&T's network should have been built out quite some time ago once the first-gen iPhone came out. How will AT&T be able to support a 3rd gen iPhone that will increase 3G traffic many times over? Sounds like some poor business planning and modeling to me.

They have been building it up, but they've also been selling more iPhones and smartphones are becoming more popular in general. You say that if that won't be able to handle the next iPhone yet you still think that their decision to not further bog down their network is bogus. I'd rather have the app not work on 3G than have my AT&T connections stunted from the saturation. You fail to consider that AT&T has planned for the next iPhone with it's rampant upgrades costing billions, but just can't support streaming TV for now. It's not like the iPhone's YouTube app which are short and use a lower quality depending on the connection, with this you could potentially have it streaming from your home 24/7.

I found one person wondering why their SlingBox only streams out at 470kbps from their 6Mbps Comcast cable connection and that it was borderline watchable. I don't know, but that seems pretty watchable to me with a modern codec. 470kbps, if true, is way too much for AT&T to bare constantly. How many people using this app on one tower would it take to render checking your mail an ordeal. I don't expect everyone to be pragmatic, but don't you think it would be best to prepare their network for the upcoming iPhone, which you admit will tax their network simply because of the uptick in subscribers, instead of potentially crippling it before the launch?

I have an SlingBox that I'd love to use with my iPhone if it worked on 3G and if it would cache enough to allow for a decent bitrate for watching, but that doesn't mean I think it should appear simply because of a shortsided desire. I've tried CBS' app, it is unwatchable.

[KingOfSomewhereHot]

Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2

These responses are ridiculous.

How so?

ATT sold me an "Unlimited Data Plan"... those specific words are used in my CONTRACT.

So... is it unlimited or isn't it???

ATT knew the capabilities of the device when the signed on as the exclusive provider... then they advertised an UNLIMITED data plan... knowing full well what that would entail. People have every right to be pissed-off about these kinds of things. (limiting Apps, and poor network quality.)

The tethering I can understand... that "data" is being used by a device other than the iPhone.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2

At least they are being honest with you by saying that they can't handle the traffic.

Apple is tight lipped, people complain. AT&T gives us a reason, people complain.

Originally Posted by winterspan

I'm beyond ridiculing AT&T's crappy 3G network, so I won't even go there... The real issue that pisses me off is the fact that:

It's one thing for the carriers to advertise "unlimited data" when in reality it is limited to 5GB.

It's a whole other leap into idiocy for them to actually place restrictions on what you can do with that 5GB of data!

And then to use their partnership with Apple and Apple's monopoly on App sales to force Sling to modify their application? It is just lunacy!

It's time to break up the AT&T iPhone monopoly!

1) It is not limited to 5GB I use considerably more than that on both my iPhone and 3G USB card from AT&T.

2) The iPhone is not a monopoly in anyway. It's exclusive to AT&T in the US, that is it. There are plenty of smartphones out there, and the iPhone isn't even the most popular selling model this past quarter.

Originally Posted by Joshua Fleetwood

Randall Stephenson, AT&T CEO
rs2982@att.com (direct)
randall.stephenson@att.com
phone: 210-351-5401 (direct to his secretary)
fax 210-351-3553
alternate phone: 210-821-4105 (headquarters, press 3, ask for Mr. Stephenson's office)
175 E. Houston
San Antonio, TX 78205


Let him know how you feel.

That is a potentially good way to complain. Well done.

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

For anyone who wants to understand this better, I recommend the Econ 101 concept of the 'tragedy of the commons.' (For the short-attention-span version, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons; for the real thing, see http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/reprint/162/3859/1243.pdf).

I have a feeling that no one who should click that link will click it.

[soundsgoodtome]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

many already view the seemingly arbitrary treatment of the iPhone as more a reflection of AT&T's ability to support an especially popular device....

Don't you mean "a reflection of AT&T's inability to support..."?

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot

How so?

ATT sold me an "Unlimited Data Plan"... those specific words are used in my CONTRACT.

So... is it unlimited or isn't it???

ATT knew the capabilities of the device when the signed on as the exclusive provider... then they advertised an UNLIMITED data plan... knowing full well what that would entail. People have every right to be pissed-off about these kinds of things. (limiting Apps, and poor network quality.)

The tethering I can understand... that "data" is being used by a device other than the iPhone.

You have unlimited data to use the phone as it's allowed. SlingPlayer is not allowed on 3G by Apple's App Store, which I'm sure is their contract with each other about apps that potentially cripple their network. NO ONE IS LIMITED YOUR DATA. IT'S STILL UNLIMITED. In fact, by doing this your unlimited data is being preserved. If such apps were forced to be allowed how long before AT&T would be stop the unlimited plans for iPhones and/or would start throttling the data to make streaming impossible?

[walshbj]

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

People need to catch a breath and cut ATT a little slack (granted, they are not making it easy for someone to defend them with their inanely stupid PR)....

Agreed on the PR. They should be embarrassed. It makes it sound like their network is held together with spit and scotch tape. They're A T & T !!! Not Dunder Miflin Telephone. Don't they have any pride? Your stock symbol is T ! Act like it !

How many people have a slingbox? How many people are going to get a slingbox if AT&T opens the iPhone to it? Enough to kill the network? The network must really be holding on by its fingernails.
What happened to the big push by AT&T to increase capacity for some mystery change coming to the iPhone?

If I had a slingbox I'd wonder how it would do with the turtle-slow upload speed I pay Time Warner for. Does anyone have trouble with that?

[Magic_Al]

Being the same company that acted as though warrantless government surveillance was not illegal when it was, of course they can say the iPhone is not a phone when it is. Small potatoes by comparison.

[teckstud]

I love the way all the "stockholders" on here will defend AT&T to the end as it would impinge on their Apple "profits" for AT&T to fail. So sad.

[cameronj]

Originally Posted by teckstud

I love the way all the "stockholders" on here will defend AT&T to the end as it would impinge on their Apple "profits" for AT&T to fail. So sad.

Why did you put stockholders and profits in quotation marks? To paraphrase a great line - I don't think those mean what you think they mean.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by walshbj

Agreed on the PR. They should be embarrassed. It makes it sound like their network is held together with spit and scotch tape. They're A T & T !!! Not Dunder Miflin Telephone.

Dunder Miflin is profitable, the Michael Scott Telephone Company would be more apropos.

What happened to the big push by AT&T to increase capacity for some mystery change coming to the iPhone?

They have. I have noticed wicked speed increases in both uploading and downloading. In fact, my upload speeds on AT&T show that their network have enabled Category 5 HSUPA which is 2Mbps up in many markets. It's the fastest my 3G card supports so I don't know if they support a higher category or not, though I would doubt it.

If I had a slingbox I'd wonder how it would do with the turtle-slow upload speed Time Warner gives me. Does anyone have trouble with that?

When I first got mine it was pretty bad. Luckily, Brighthouse/TWC (forget which one it was back then) offered higher rates soon after which helped out greatly. What speeds do you have?

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by solipsism

Apple is tight lipped, people complain. AT&T gives us a reason, people complain.

True enough!

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by Magic_Al

Being the same company that acted as though warrantless government surveillance was not illegal when it was, of course they can say the iPhone is not a phone when it is. Small potatoes by comparison.

The were really late updating their clause. I don't think that anyone will deny that the iPhone uses an excessive amount of data compared to other phones. they should have predicted this ahead of time.

[walshbj]

Originally Posted by solipsism

...When I first got mine it was pretty bad. Luckily, Brighthouse/TWC (forget which one it was back then) offered higher rates soon after which helped out greatly. What speeds do you have?

How would Slingbox do with this??

http://www.speedtest.net/result/472327732.png

[B-McGee]

fine, if it's not a phone and instead a pc att, then don't make us pay for airtime minutes.

the way the iphone is being treated is getting annoying. att is allowed to through all these restrictions on the usage because their precious 3G network can't handle basic hi volume traffic. fine. if att is allowed to treat the iphone as a unique device, then the fcc needs to step in and do the same - open up the iphone to any and all us carriers and let the consumers decide for themselves based on who has the best coverage in their respective areas. let it be the only device, due to its users heavy data usage, that isn't tied to a carrier subsidy like most new phones are these days.

[hittrj01]

If the iPhone is classified as a computer by AT&T and they do not allow large amounts of streaming video for computers on their network, how is it that you are able to use slingbox, watch Hulu, etc. on a laptop with an aircard?

Like almost everyone else, I call bullsh*t.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by walshbj

How would Slingbox do with this??

http://www.speedtest.net/result/472327732.png

I'd say 250kbps-500Kbps of upload bandwidth is needed at the low end to be watchable and 700kbps-1Mbps for good quality. Any home router, especially wireless ones, along the path will add latency. And mobile networks will add their own latency and variances in throughput while offering no QoS.

The SlingPlayers I've seen for WinMo devices state that is needs a minimum of 120kbps, but it was not watchable.


Here is my AT&T 3G from Iowa...

edit: For comparison, I also did my hotel's WiFi network. While the latency is much lower, as expected, I'm getting less throughput than from AT&T. However, I am able to stream much more consistently than with AT&T's. This is the nature of the network.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by hittrj01

If the iPhone is classified as a computer by AT&T and they do not allow large amounts of streaming video for computers on their network, how is it that you are able to use slingbox, watch Hulu, etc. on a laptop with an aircard?

Like almost everyone else, I call bullsh*t.

Maybe they will when they charge you $60/month for unlimited data.

[str1f3]

Originally Posted by solipsism

How many people here actually own a SlingBox? Why is no one complaining about the cost of the app yet there will be rampant complaining when Apple charges $10 for the iPod Touch 3.0 update.

Because we're just trying to get through the issue of AT&T. The iPod Touch update is actually worth the price of $10 for OS 3.0. The question is whether my AT&T contract (who is the subject of this thread) is actually the worth the monthly costs.

Originally Posted by solipsism

They have been building it up, but they've also been selling more iPhones and smartphones are becoming more popular in general. You say that if that won't be able to handle the next iPhone yet you still think that their decision to not further bog down their network is bogus. I'd rather have the app not work on 3G than have my AT&T connections stunted from the saturation. You fail to consider that AT&T has planned for the next iPhone with it's rampant upgrades costing billions, but just can't support streaming TV for now. It's not like the iPhone's YouTube app which are short and use a lower quality depending on the connection, with this you could potentially have it streaming from your home 24/7.

They may be building it up but it is still lousy. So you're telling me the one device (iPhone) that is keeping AT&T from losing customers, is the only one that can't use Slingbox? It's ok every other smartphone on their network to use Slingbox except their premier product? Please do not mention YouTube. You can now stream TV shows and movies within YouTube and there will be much more of this content in the coming year. The Slingbox also adjusts the quality depending on the internet connection and has been doing this on EDGE for years. Read the Gizmodo review of the app. The fact is that AT&T has lousy coverage. It doesn't matter that you mention billions because whatever the amount is, Verizon must have invested twice as much because their network is twice as good. BTW if you think that people would stream Slingbox 24/7 on a 3.5" screen with a device where we already struggle with battery life, you're crazy.

Windows,Blackberry, Palm, & Symbian have done this for years and suddenly now they are complaining about congestion? Don't say that the iPhone is somehow different. Slingbox is not incredibly difficult to use on any of these platforms which is why Sling is popular. There are countless YouTube videos of people demoing their Sling app on their non-iPhone. The day when  ends this exclusivity will be a great day. They should get off their ass and make a CDMA phone. If companies 1/10 their size (Palm & Blackberry) can do multiple carrier phones,  should also do it.

[str1f3]

BTW AT&T, if you feel that the iPhone is not a phone, you should allow customers to purchase just the data plan. I'll be happy to use Skype instead of your overpriced cellular plans.

[DMarrero]

AT&T are quickly turning many iphone fans off. Not only are they using a clear double standard but they lie in every add that says they have the best coverage. ATT blows hard.

[OriginalMacRat]

Originally Posted by boss1

I'm done with AT&T as of this. Not only is the action pure hypocrisy , they now have the nerve to release a PR statement to shed light on it.

Yup. It is past time for Apple to unlock the iPhone and let their customers choose other GSM providers in the US like Sprint and T-Mobile when ATT wants to screw over iPhone users.