Apple fires its return salvo as Microsoft issues misleading 5th ad

[AppleInsider]

After appearing to remain aloof to Microsoft's jabs that Macs don't give enough choice, Apple has responded with ads which insist that poor Windows PC choices are no choices at all.

Two of the three new TV spots debuting this week directly reference Microsoft's "Laptop Hunters" ads, which since their debut in March have insisted that Windows PCs offer more choice for less money.

The most direct answer is "Elimination." Faced with deciding between Justin Long's Mac and several PCs, a shopper named Megan watches the PCs walk away as fewer and fewer of them meet her criteria of a big screen, a fast processor, and -- the dealbreaker -- a system that "just works" without crashes or viruses. In the end, Megan is left alone with the Mac as her only real choice.

"PC Choice Chat" echoes the theme with John Hodgman's PC character trying to advise radio show callers on what PC to choose only to find that he doesn't have an answer to requests for a PC free of viruses and with good customer support. Supporting this, the "Customer Care" spot has PC hiding the frustrations he's had getting help as he's bounced between hardware, software and sales staff while on the phone.

Each of the ads appears a gentle, if exaggerated, response but is a mirror of Apple's first official stance against Microsoft's campaign. The Mac maker argued that many Windows PCs aren't bargains at all as they won't do what their users want from them. Macs are better regardless of cost, Apple maintains.

Not to be outdone, Microsoft the very same week has issued a fifth ad of its own, and what's probably its most head-on challenge to Apple's pricing yet. Lauren (not the actress of the first ad) looks for a system with "speed, portability and battery life" under $1,700 and briefly looks at Macs, eventually settling on a Dell Studio XPS 13 on sale for $899. The system is arguably the 13-inch MacBook's closest competitor and has a similar screen, dimensions and even the same GeForce 9400M graphics that Apple briefly touted as an exclusive edge over the frequently lethargic Intel integrated video in many Windows portables.



In some regards, the Studio XPS 13 supports Microsoft's case. For its $1,099 official price, and especially the sale price shown in the ad, the system is unambiguously faster than Apple's MacBook at that level: it has a 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo Apple reserves for its $1,499 model, 4GB of stock memory that isn't available on any MacBook below the 15-inch Pro, and a 320GB, 7,200RPM hard drive that Apple only supplies as a build-to-order option. It has only slightly less real-world battery life in reviews and weighs only a bit more.

Once again, however, the ad relies on conscious misdirection to make the PC seem more appealing. Although the ad shows Lauren trying a 13-inch MacBook, it quotes her and her mother Sue complaining about the $2,000 price of the 15-inch MacBook Pro -- not only falling out of the size category the two had been considering but falsely portraying Macs as twice as expensive when Apple already offers a $999, if somewhat slower, MacBook. Even Apple's fastest aluminum MacBook would have fallen within Lauren's budget and saved her $500 over the price quoted in the ad.

Apple isn't content to depend solely on marketing to correct this perceived distortion of its value. As learned last month, the it plans to produce less expensive Macs in the near future that the Cupertino firm hopes will cancel out Microsoft's few remaining arguments against switching to a Mac.

[christopher126]

WooHoo first Post

"Elimination" is very funny!

[lkrupp]

Of the people I know who have switched to the Mac/ OS X platform price was the least important issue for them. They were tired of all the crap they had to deal with using Windows, period.

[Mr Macintosh]

So sad that Microsoft can't come up with any type of commercial that is capable of showing off its OS. They do not make the hardware so why are they so instant on trying to give the consumer the idea that they have anything to do with hardware. Why not show a PC running Windows against a Mac running OSX, which as we all know is a total package. Then lets see the PC run OSX and Windows like the Mac can. Next let them explain how they will have to pay a yearly fee to anti-virus software makers to keep their OS rid of viruses, malware, spyware, Trojans and such and how the make does not reply on this because of the OS. Then to top it all off, let then so what software comes on the PC and Mac for stuff like, pictures, video, web site creation, DVD creation. YOu will notice that I did not hit on music because Microsoft does have a decent piece of music software but I feel that iTunes is a much better tool for a music library.

My 2 cents. Thank you...
Macintosh Forever...

Hmm, mine would have been the first but my reply was a little lengthy... oh well...

[wordwise]

The latest switcher I know was going to buy a Mini to get his feet wet. He left the store with a MacBook Pro and is still impressed with the discoveries he's making 3 months later.

[jpellino]

Out of the box nominal use is under three hours. Maxed out is just over one hour.

Please. What good is speed if it only lasts an hour?

Add LED backlighting, Bluetooth and a decent battery, and this pig is up to $1,700

Nice try.

[imapcandmac]

It is funny to see Apple feel the need to respond to the Microsoft ads. I would think Apple would be above this if they were not worried about the ads.

I use own a PC and a Macbook Pro and run Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux regularly. I love my Macbook Pro but I have had Mac OS X lock up and have had to do 'Forced Quits' more on the Mac than the PC (running Vista and Windows 7). I have found the the Mac vs. PC ads filled with lies and half truths for a long time. It is funny that as soon as Microsoft plays this deception game that the Apple cult following gets their panties in a bunch.

Both operating systems are great and I find it nice to run them for differing purposes. Can't we just all get long?

[macdanboy]

Originally Posted by Mr Macintosh

So sad that Microsoft can't come up with any type of commercial that is capable of showing off its OS. They do not make the hardware so why are they so instant on trying to give the consumer the idea that they have anything to do with hardware. Why not show a PC running Windows against a Mac running OSX, which as we all know is a total package. Then lets see the PC run OSX and Windows like the Mac can. Next let them explain how they will have to pay a yearly fee to anti-virus software makers to keep their OS rid of viruses, malware, spyware, Trojans and such and how the make does not reply on this because of the OS. Then to top it all off, let then so what software comes on the PC and Mac for stuff like, pictures, video, web site creation, DVD creation. YOu will notice that I did not hit on music because Microsoft does have a decent piece of music software but I feel that iTunes is a much better tool for a music library.

My 2 cents. Thank you...
Macintosh Forever...

Hmm, mine would have been the first but my reply was a little lengthy... oh well...

This is what you would expect from Microsoft. If your a car salesman and your car breaks down 10 times a year, has recalls and costs twice as much to operate ..... you play up the cheap purchase price. All the PC manufacturers go along with it. They offer rebates and instant discounts like car manufacturers do and totally ignore the operating cost and problems. When was the last time you saw a commercial from any PC maker talking about the MS OS? I can't think of one in a long time. Otherwise known as SMOKE & MIRRORS.

[solipsism]

These MS ads are getting better each time. They aren't as enjoyable as the Mac ads but I think MS is effective in conveying its point. I love healthy rivalry!


PS: Thank you AI for using an iPhone compatible codec for the video.

[MacTripper]

Hello everyone, first post!

Apparently the Dell XPS 13 in this Microsoft ad has a huge problem when the lid is opened all the way.

It blocks the rear heat vents and results in the machine overheating on the bottom so much that it burns legs.

Also there appears to be substantially less battery life than advertised according to owners.

Most likely because of the fans and the blocked heat vents in the back.

Guess "Laura" got her deal for under $1000, too bad it won't last long with these sort of issues.

She would have been better off with a MacBook. The resale value of Dells is no comparison to Mac's.


Guess I should post a link (click on customer ratings)

http://www.dell.com/content/products...&cs=19#reviews

If this is a violation, please forgive me and delete the link. thanks

[imapcandmac]

Originally Posted by Mr Macintosh

So sad that Microsoft can't come up with any type of commercial that is capable of showing off its OS. They do not make the hardware so why are they so instant on trying to give the consumer the idea that they have anything to do with hardware. Why not show a PC running Windows against a Mac running OSX, which as we all know is a total package. Then lets see the PC run OSX and Windows like the Mac can. Next let them explain how they will have to pay a yearly fee to anti-virus software makers to keep their OS rid of viruses, malware, spyware, Trojans and such and how the make does not reply on this because of the OS. Then to top it all off, let then so what software comes on the PC and Mac for stuff like, pictures, video, web site creation, DVD creation. YOu will notice that I did not hit on music because Microsoft does have a decent piece of music software but I feel that iTunes is a much better tool for a music library.

My 2 cents. Thank you...
Macintosh Forever...

Hmm, mine would have been the first but my reply was a little lengthy... oh well...

Apple will not let you run OS X on a PC because they would rather have you pay for their overpriced hardware. They should open the restrictions and see how that goes. The lack of driver support for OS X would be an issue as Windows must work with all hardware while OS X only works with select hardware.

I have not run virus or spyware protection on my PC for years without issues. You just have to be cognizant of what you are doing.

I use Adobe Photoshop Elements and Premiere Elements which I find much better then iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, and Final Cut Express. The package only costs $99. iPhoto is not a photo editor so you need to buy one anyway for any halfway serious photo editing.

[Stan_Timek]

Microsoft is so full of wonderful, fanciful stories... they might as well be producing children's picture books! Ha!! Now that would be interesting wouldn't it? Would they use watercolors, crayons, or MS Paint to create the pictures

Stan

Hey, if you want to read real reviews of children's picture books check out a site my wife started. It's over at http://www.theirfavoritebooks.com

[Jerseymac]

[QUOTE=imapcandmac;1417492]I have not run virus or spyware protection on my PC for years without issues. You just have to be cognizant of what you are doing.

How do you know you do not have any spyware or viruses if you don't run virus protection?

My first PC ran XP before service pack 2. You may remember the built in firewall was turned off by default. I got hit by the bad guys the first day I was on line with broadband DSL. And I didn't even visit any bad sites.

[imapcandmac]

[QUOTE=Jerseymac;1417496]

Originally Posted by imapcandmac

I have not run virus or spyware protection on my PC for years without issues. You just have to be cognizant of what you are doing.

How do you know you do not have any spyware or viruses if you don't run virus protection?

My first PC ran XP before service pack 2. You may remember the built in firewall was turned off by default. I got hit by the bad guys the first day I was on line with broadband DSL. And I didn't even visit any bad sites.

I have scanned occasionally (with free software) but do not run real time scanning. I also have a hardware firewall built into my Linksys Access Point.

[teckstud]

Whoever doesn't think Macs aren't more expensive is just plain stupid. Having said that, Macs still work more efficiently because of their OS which is something you just can't put a price tag on. Therefor the Mac i$ a better deal- less aggravation.

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by imapcandmac

Apple will not let you run OS X on a PC because they would rather have you pay for their overpriced hardware. They should open the restrictions and see how that goes. The lack of driver support for OS X would be an issue as Windows must work with all hardware while OS X only works with select hardware.

It will never happen- Apple has us in a Catch 22. If you want the OS you have to get the Hardware - no matter how over priced or cheaply made. If the OS was available all over the spectrum, Apple would tank. People would opt for other manufacturer's hardware - hand's down. They (Apple) are afraid to license out the OS. So many of us have to wait between generations of inadequate hardware until Apple comes up to speed.
Now where is that iPad?

[danielchow]

Originally Posted by Mr Macintosh

So sad that Microsoft can't come up with any type of commercial that is capable of showing off its OS. They do not make the hardware so why are they so instant on trying to give the consumer the idea that they have anything to do with hardware.

it's a technique used to distract their audience from the real matter; that is, all the well documented unfavorable idiosyncrasies commonly associated with Windows of any flavor from 98 to Vista. by diverting their audience's attention to the hardware made by other vendors, they minimize the short comings of their own product with distractions. it's an interesting strategy, but a lame one because they're channelling most of the negative attention on the pc makers. for example, when we discuss these advertisements, we mostly talk about the pc, the hardware. not much discussion, in comparison to the previous, is on microsoft's windows. we trash the other hardware when we compare it to apple's hardware. it's a natural response to their advertisement. in microsoft's view, their advertisement is a success, but i'm afraid at the expense of the other pc makers. if i'm a pc maker, i'd not partner with microsoft to make these sort of advertisements because i'll end up looking ugly or uglier.

[jpellino]

Originally Posted by imapcandmac

Apple will not let you run OS X on a PC because they would rather have you pay for their overpriced hardware. They should open the restrictions and see how that goes. The lack of driver support for OS X would be an issue as Windows must work with all hardware while OS X only works with select hardware.

It was tried. I'd have paid you to take our UMAX and PowerComputing units off our hands.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by imapcandmac

Apple will not let you run OS X on a PC because they would rather have you pay for their overpriced hardware. They should open the restrictions and see how that goes. The lack of driver support for OS X would be an issue as Windows must work with all hardware while OS X only works with select hardware.

I have not run virus or spyware protection on my PC for years without issues. You just have to be cognizant of what you are doing.

I use Adobe Photoshop Elements and Premiere Elements which I find much better then iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, and Final Cut Express. The package only costs $99. iPhoto is not a photo editor so you need to buy one anyway for any halfway serious photo editing.

Look you're not the first guy to pop on these boards with the

"Well I have a Mac too so my opinion counts"

Facts are Mac users don't run virus protection AND don't have to be "cognizant" of what they're doing. That's a win in my book.

New Mac purchasers get iLife for free without the need to purchase an extra software title plus you'd need to add a comparable product to Garageband and iWeb.

Plus there's really no way for you to substantiate your "overpriced hardware" claim. You may try though if you can give me a breakdown of the software and hardware costs then we
can all make a more informed decision.

[jpellino]

Originally Posted by teckstud

Whoever doesn't think Macs aren't more expensive is just plain stupid. Having said that, Macs still work more efficiently because of their OS which is something you just can't put a price tag on. Therefor the Mac i$ a better deal- less aggravation.

Sticker price is only item 1 in a purchase. After running two campuses with hundreds of units, I can peg a Mac's usable life at 5 years, a PC's at just about 3. So factor that in and you're still ahead with a Mac. Add in support costs (we've found that a tech can support about 4 times as many Macs as PCs with the same effort and time) and sticker price becomes a sucker's bet.

[Kibitzer]

I gave up on buying new GM cars after such issues as rolled-in steel mill scale in the engine hood, causing the paint to flake off a Pontiac in the first year. I bought a new Olds where the driver's door hand grasp trim disintegrated after just a few months of pulling the door shut. Bad design and bad execution earned GM its just reward, with consumers turning away to more dependable and longer-lived products from Honda, Toyota and Nissan. Now the world's largest car company for decades is staring bankruptcy in the face.

So it may be with Microsoft. After 25 years of using products with ever more complex, cumbersome and trouble-prone operating systems from Microsoft, I made the break last year for the reliability and durability of Apple. Others are switching too, while Microsoft is still hell-bent on building operating systems with tailfins. Can the world's leading software business be sowing the seeds of its own destruction? Don't be surprised. GM today. Microsoft tomorrow.

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by imapcandmac

It is funny to see Apple feel the need to respond to the Microsoft ads. I would think Apple would be above this if they were not worried about the ads.

Nah, I think Apple is just tweaking MSFT's nose, and using no more than the same theme they've been using since 2006. MSFT just gave them lots of new material to work with, that's all.

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by Kibitzer

Don't be surprised. GM today. Microsoft tomorrow.

I think you're on to something.

[jpellino]

[QUOTE=imapcandmac;1417497]

Originally Posted by Jerseymac

I have scanned occasionally (with free software) but do not run real time scanning. I also have a hardware firewall built into my Linksys Access Point.

A Linksys AP with a "hardware firewall"? Huh. Linksys APs do have MAC address filtering, which as far as security goes, you should "avoid as if it were a swarm of angry bees". Perhaps you really have a router and therefore a some firewall features.

[dagamer34]

Ads like this shouldn't just be focusing on the price. Let's face it, with Apple, you pay more to get more. Simple as that. Any Mac you buy lets you take it to an Apple store for real human service to help you with your problem. Other companies don't do that (regardless of the amount you spent on your computer).

Let's not be naive, you cannot trade quality and performance and expect to pay nothing. That's living in a fairytale land. And Apple is NOT marketing for the lowest common denominator. That's why you haven't seen them in the netbook market. But they build a product that they are happy with so that consumers will be happy with it as well. If a tech-oriented consumer can provide tech support for themselves, then a PC is probably better for them anyway (cost-wise). But again, that's NOT most people (as seen my tech geeks getting many many calls from family members wanting their PCs fixed).

[imapcandmac]

Originally Posted by dagamer34

Ads like this shouldn't just be focusing on the price. Let's face it, with Apple, you pay more to get more. Simple as that. Any Mac you buy lets you take it to an Apple store for real human service to help you with your problem. Other companies don't do that (regardless of the amount you spent on your computer).

Let's not be naive, you cannot trade quality and performance and expect to pay nothing. That's living in a fairytale land. And Apple is NOT marketing for the lowest common denominator. That's why you haven't seen them in the netbook market. But they build a product that they are happy with so that consumers will be happy with it as well. If a tech-oriented consumer can provide tech support for themselves, then a PC is probably better for them anyway (cost-wise). But again, that's NOT most people (as seen my tech geeks getting many many calls from family members wanting their PCs fixed).

But it is about price! This helps explain why PCs have a much better market share. Most people are not power users are just fine getting their email and internets on a PC for the cheapest price possible. That's why I think the ads are effective. Most PC users I know love the ads. Most Mac users I know hate the ads. I think the ads are misleading as are the 'I'm a Mac' ads and the switcher ads that Apple has run. Both play to people's stupidity with half-truths.

[christopher126]

Hmm, mine would have been the first but my reply was a little lengthy... oh well...[/QUOTE]

Your post was more thoughtful, too! Sorry

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by imapcandmac

But it is about price! This helps explain why PCs have a much better market share. Most people are not power users are just fine getting their email and internets on a PC for the cheapest price possible. That's why I think the ads are effective. Most PC users I know love the ads. Most Mac users I know hate the ads. I think the ads are misleading as are the 'I'm a Mac' ads and the switcher ads that Apple has run. Both play to people's stupidity with half-truths.

1) Macs are PCs. They are one PC maker that also makes their own OS. In the US they are about 10% of all PCs. Of the $1000+ range that account for about 70%. Those $400 and under PCs add marketshare but hardly any net profit.

2) Most cheap PCs do have the power for doing basic task and unless Apple competes at that level, which is unlikely, they will always have a lower marketshare than other PCs. I find the 10% in the US pretty damn high compared to the 20% and 25% of Dell and HP, respectively.

3) The ads aren't half truths, they are just the whole truth. The difference is that they being honest enough within their perspective but aren't telling the whole truth. I think this aspect of marketing is fine, though I wish we'd follow parts of Europe with requirements for full disclosure of minimum TCO for cell phone plans.

PS: What is with all the frakkd up quote marke-ups in this thread. Doesn't anyone preview or edit their posts?

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by imapcandmac

But it is about price!

Sure, for most people. That's why Windows has such a high share. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

But for enough people, perhaps between 5% and 8% (but growing fairly rapidly, and in my view, a share that will level off at 10% or so globally), it's also about a far better OS, no malware, no spyware, no techie-BS, the integration of the computer with their personal lives (iLife, iPod, iPhone, @tv) and so forth. There is a sufficient group out there - and it's not Lauren and her mom - that are happy with that situation. No one has a gun to their heads.

Btw, if anyone is signaling panic and desperation with these ads, it surely must be MSFT: they must be seeing something happening in their customer/channel pipeline about switching behavior that we don't yet.

[hmurchison]

The Macintosh was never created as the computer for everyone. It was more like the computer for everyone who was willing to pay a premium.

Frankly I like that Macs come with a premium though it cuts both ways and sometimes even I get frustrated but the reality is I like a lot of things that Apple does.


I like that they don't succomb to putting 50 different logos on their computers. I think I can find out that an Apple TV has a HDMI port without having the sticker on the front.

I like that Apple doesn't install much nagware ..in fact I've never had my mac say "your trial period is up ...give us money if you wish to continue" Desktops for sale suck. Even with iPhoto photobooks or printing supplies its there as an options but you aren't harassed about it.

I like that Apple has the balls to move forward.

Getting rid of floppies
Moving to USB
Moving to Displayport
Supporting digital display output (DVI)


How long did it take PC vendors to get rid of parallel ports for chrissake?

Sorry. Apple doesn't ship 17" laptops with GMA graphics. They don't ship 4 pin non-powered Firewire. They don't add card readers to their computers so that you can save $15 on that cheapo Wal Mart reader.

What they do is make elegant computers that are highly functional to the skilled computer user. They made Unix accessible and attractive.

So I don't give damn if a PC user doesn't understand their lineup or doesn't recognize the beautiful and sturdy unibody casing or understand Apple's philosophy. Chances are you're simply not a Apple customer and more better suited to a PC anyways.

[imapcandmac]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Look you're not the first guy to pop on these boards with the

"Well I have a Mac too so my opinion counts"

Facts are Mac users don't run virus protection AND don't have to be "cognizant" of what they're doing. That's a win in my book.

New Mac purchasers get iLife for free without the need to purchase an extra software title plus you'd need to add a comparable product to Garageband and iWeb.

Really, I thought I was the first ever. Thank you for correcting me!

A lot of Mac users aren't cognizant, just read the forums.

New Macs do come with iLife but you must purchase every year to stay current. I wouldn't say this is absolutely free. iPhoto sucks as it is not a real photo editor and forces a directory structure on the user. Picasa is much better and free as an organizer and PhotoShop Elements is a great cheap editor. Too bad the Mac version is always a year behind. Windows Photo Gallery that comes with Vista is better than iPhoto IMO. iMovie is a joke anymore and not much better than Movie Maker. I would recommend buying a better video editor. iDVD is very limited and there are free alternatives for the PC. Likewise, there are several free Web creators for the PC with more capability. I personally have not used GarageBand much (nor do I know many that have) so I cannot comment.

[christopher126]

Originally Posted by Kibitzer

I gave up on buying new GM cars after such issues as rolled-in steel mill scale in the engine hood, causing the paint to flake off a Pontiac in the first year. I bought a new Olds where the driver's door hand grasp trim disintegrated after just a few months of pulling the door shut. Bad design and bad execution earned GM its just reward, with consumers turning away to more dependable and longer-lived products from Honda, Toyota and Nissan. Now the world's largest car company for decades is staring bankruptcy in the face.

So it may be with Microsoft. After 25 years of using products with ever more complex, cumbersome and trouble-prone operating systems from Microsoft, I made the break last year for the reliability and durability of Apple. Others are switching too, while Microsoft is still hell-bent on building operating systems with tailfins. Can the world's leading software business be sowing the seeds of its own destruction? Don't be surprised. GM today. Microsoft tomorrow.

Well said. The only hope for MS is to do what Apple did with OSX's intro and build a completely new OS and include it in only new PC's with strict (MS approved) hardware (think drivers/ram). In other words "divorce" themselves from the Legacy problem.

Revamp IE, Office to have 80% of the most used features and again no legacy. Still support, xp and Vista for "x" amount of time, run an emulator, maybe. But they have to mitigate the the crap hardware that manufacturers are selling. Think Windows NT of yester-year!

Any thoughts?

[guinness]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Look you're not the first guy to pop on these boards with the

"Well I have a Mac too so my opinion counts"

Facts are Mac users don't run virus protection AND don't have to be "cognizant" of what they're doing. That's a win in my book.

New Mac purchasers get iLife for free without the need to purchase an extra software title plus you'd need to add a comparable product to Garageband and iWeb.

Plus there's really no way for you to substantiate your "overpriced hardware" claim. You may try though if you can give me a breakdown of the software and hardware costs then we
can all make a more informed decision.

I can build my own PC, even throwing in an OEM copy of Windows, or free ISO of Ubuntu, and build it with better specs than just about any OEM PC, and and Apple (easily). DDR3, quad-core, Lian Li/Cooler Master case, etc.

When I got my Mac (C2D Mini) about a year and a half ago, I was all geeked about iLife 08 too, but then I came to the conclusion, I don't make web pages, don't make music, and don't have a camcorder, and then I was basically left with only iPhoto, but I don't like that either.

But I love OSX, but I'm completely frustrated by Apple (I hate AIOs too), and I like how Win7 and Ubuntu are coming along (Ubuntu is probably the closest thing to a standard in Linux, as that seems to be the most popular distro). However, considering most of my personal time is spent in a web browser or e-mail, the OS really, really doesn't matter, outside of some specific apps, and most of those would probably run in a VM.

I simply don't care that much about a thin laptop or desktop or what it's made out of, if it prevents me for easily adding something, replacing something, or loses me some ports. When I turn on my PC, it turns on, same goes with my Mac. In Windows, I use either AVG or Avast, both free anti-virus, just keep them updated, it's not that flippin' hard, and I use a custom hosts file to block ads on all my computers, because they're annoying.

They work, I don't worry about it.

[imapcandmac]

Originally Posted by solipsism

3) The ads aren't half truths, they are just the whole truth. The difference is that they being honest enough within their perspective but aren't telling the whole truth.

Two of the recent ads for the Mac talked about the PC locking up all the time. As I mentioned above, I have had more issues with OS X than Vista or Windows 7. We have a lot of Windows users at work and lockups are not common at all in the past several years with XP and Vista.

[pt123]

Originally Posted by jpellino

Sticker price is only item 1 in a purchase. After running two campuses with hundreds of units, I can peg a Mac's usable life at 5 years, a PC's at just about 3. So factor that in and you're still ahead with a Mac. Add in support costs (we've found that a tech can support about 4 times as many Macs as PCs with the same effort and time) and sticker price becomes a sucker's bet.

Not for everyone. I had a Powerbook G3 and the cache went bad after 3 years. I had a Powerbook G4 and the backlight on the LCD went bad after 4 years. Replaced it with a $1299 Macbook. I have a Sony Vaio that lasted 5 years. I replaced it with a $500 Acer. It pretty much does everything I do on the Mac (email, web, word). No support issues on either computer. I can't really say what is a better deal over time until it is all said and done, but it is nice to get a 2nd computer for less than half the price that does everything I want it to.

I had the first generation Macbook and it had it shares of problems. It went back twice for warranty work - bad trackpad, DVD drive scratching the disc. It also had a problem with not shutting down correctly and heating up because the processor was still on. But I got rid of it and got the latest Macbook which is much better. So I would say it is hit or miss with either platform.

[evilcnboy]

Originally Posted by imapcandmac

Really, I thought I was the first ever. Thank you for correcting me!

A lot of Mac users aren't cognizant, just read the forums.

New Macs do come with iLife but you must purchase every year to stay current. I wouldn't say this is absolutely free. iPhoto sucks as it is not a real photo editor and forces a directory structure on the user. Picasa is much better and free as an organizer and PhotoShop Elements is a great cheap editor. Too bad the Mac version is always a year behind. Windows Photo Gallery that comes with Vista is better than iPhoto IMO. iMovie is a joke anymore and not much better than Movie Maker. I would recommend buying a better video editor. iDVD is very limited and there are free alternatives for the PC. Likewise, there are several free Web creators for the PC with more capability. I personally have not used GarageBand much (nor do I know many that have) so I cannot comment.

Lol, do you even know what you talking about??? Have you really used iLife. iPhoto, like Picasa and Photoshop, is meant to be more of a organizer and presentation of your photos with some editing features. For real editor, you have to go things like PS or after effect, which most ppl won't used. iPhoto is "light years" ahead, Picasa is the best alternative on the windows for such basic app. Why do you think google doesn't have a mac version of it (as they already going to have chrome for mac soon), cuz they know they won't get any share there. iMovie only a lil bit better than movie make? tat's a joke rite? really funny. Movie maker is worthless piece of junk while iMovie is sufficient to make gorgeous home movies for a lot of great features. For professional, you could need such thing as Final Cut Pro (which is arguable the best) or Premiere. Garageband vs. songsmith, lol, no need to test which is way superior.

For basic "fun" with music, photos, videos, iLife (which target basic users) beats same categorical apps on windows. For professional, most creative prof will tell you they prefer software to be on a mac.

just my 2 cent, no offense

[christopher126]

Originally Posted by evilcnboy

Lol, do you even know what you talking about??? Have you really used iLife. iPhoto, like Picasa and Photoshop, is meant to be more of a organizer and presentation of your photos with some editing features. For real editor, you have to go things like PS or after effect, which most ppl won't used. iPhoto is "light years" ahead, Picasa is the best alternative on the windows for such basic app. Why do you think google doesn't have a mac version of it (as they already going to have chrome for mac soon), cuz they know they won't get any share there. iMovie only a lil bit better than movie make? tat's a joke rite? really funny. Movie maker is worthless piece of junk while iMovie is sufficient to make gorgeous home movies for a lot of great features. For professional, you could need such thing as Final Cut Pro (which is arguable the best) or Premiere. Garageband vs. songsmith, lol, no need to test which is way superior.

Agreed!

[imapcandmac]

Originally Posted by evilcnboy

Lol, do you even know what you talking about??? Have you really used iLife. iPhoto, like Picasa and Photoshop, is meant to be more of a organizer and presentation of your photos with some editing features. For real editor, you have to go things like PS or after effect, which most ppl won't used. iPhoto is "light years" ahead, Picasa is the best alternative on the windows for such basic app. Why do you think google doesn't have a mac version of it (as they already going to have chrome for mac soon), cuz they know they won't get any share there. iMovie only a lil bit better than movie make? tat's a joke rite? really funny. Movie maker is worthless piece of junk while iMovie is sufficient to make gorgeous home movies for a lot of great features. For professional, you could need such thing as Final Cut Pro (which is arguable the best) or Premiere. Garageband vs. songsmith, lol, no need to test which is way superior.

Picasa is available on the Mac and I use it often

I have Photoshop Elements and Premiere Elements on Windows ($99 for the package) which are light years ahead of iPhoto, iMovie, and iDVD.

I liked iMovie 6 much better than the current version. The encoding used in iDVD is poor and pixelated and choppy compared to Premiere Elements.

[Quadra 610]

Ok.

But how fast do these generic PCs run OS X and its own software?

Oh wait . . .

[lightstriker]

OMG, this new Lauren is so hot. But all you freaking nerds keep spinning the Win/OSX broken record.