Apple said building $1 billion server farm

[AppleInsider]

North Carolina's government is reportedly promising tax breaks to Apple in return for building a large server farm, eventually worth $1 billion, within the East coast state.

A "state official" has told the Charlotte Observer that a bill nearing approval that would bend tax rules for a single, unnamed company are actually meant to accommodate a specific Apple project, which might otherwise be located in another state.

The deal would give the tax breaks to companies with a minority market share in North Carolina, but with a disproportionately large amount of property and staff located in the region. Apple would stand to save as much as $46 million in the space of 10 years but, in return, would have to invest $1 billion within nine years and locate itself in one of the state's poorer counties; Catawba and Cleveland counties are on the short list.

North Carolina is facing steep, double-digit unemployment and could thus soften the blow by giving incentives to companies to do business within the state. Google has been operating a server farm of its own in the state since 2008.

Just what this project would entail isn't clear, but legislators supposedly see it in terms of "juicy" long-term rewards that would be worth even timid beginnings. At first, the Apple server farm would need under 100 full-time staff -- less than 1 percent of the 35,100 employees the Mac maker relies on today. Server farms are usually intended to handle the very largest sets of data a company has to offer and are often located outside of regular company offices both for size reasons and, sometimes, as a physically separate backup.

Apple hasn't responded to the claims.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[federmoose]

Very cool implications. In other news...

"double-digit employment"

now THAT's really something that'll make people suffer.

[macxpress]

I just can't see how giving Apple a $46 Million tax incentive to hire less than 100 people is helping anything.

But I guess the money Apple would have to invest in this would make up for it.

[floccus]

Originally Posted by macxpress

I just can't see how giving Apple a $1 Billion tax incentive to hire less than 100 people is helping anything.

But I guess the money Apple would have to invest in this would make up for it.

Apple would only probably hire 100 people AFTER the thing is built. If you're going to build a $1 billion anything, that means you're going to hire a hell of a lot of contractors to build it. Since building construction has been hit hard in terms of layoffs, this would be a boon to NC.

As for what Apple could want this for.. massive iTunes/MobileMe backup center?

[ptysell]

Wonder why Apple wouldn't do this project closer to home in California?

Maybe it is the same reason why every other company is moving out of the state.

They better get rolling on this project before the federal government finds some way to tax them into the ground over some rediciolus thing like energy/carbon.

[tsirko]

Originally Posted by floccus

Apple would only probably hire 100 people AFTER the thing is built. If you're going to build a $1 billion anything, that means you're going to hire a hell of a lot of contractors to build it. Since building construction has been hit hard in terms of layoffs, this would be a boon to NC.

As for what Apple could want this for.. massive iTunes/MobileMe backup center?

or maybe free mobile me! for all

dreaming

[macxpress]

I'd rather see a state give Apple a $1 Billion tax break to bring its assembly plants back to the US. Then we will put people permanently back to work. The construction to build this thing is only temporary. If you're going to give someone a $1 Billion tax break it better damn well be a permanent thing and not a 6-8 month thing.

[jcw5002]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

North Carolina is facing steep, double-digit employment and could thus soften the blow by giving incentives to companies to do business within the state.

I think you mean unemployment?

This is great news for NC!! I'm stoked.

[Dr Millmoss]

Originally Posted by macxpress

I just can't see how giving Apple a $1 Billion tax incentive to hire less than 100 people is helping anything.

That's not what the article says. It says the tax break could be worth as much as $46 million against Apple's potential $1 billion investment in the facility. Also, the it says the 100 employees are "at first."

[Alonso Perez]

Originally Posted by ptysell

Wonder why Apple wouldn't do this project closer to home in California?

Maybe it is the same reason why every other company is moving out of the state.

They better get rolling on this project before the federal government finds some way to tax them into the ground over some rediciolus thing like energy/carbon.

Here are a few things you should know:

1. Apple isn't moving anywhere. Companies routinely geographically distribute infrastructure resources. It's more redundant, results in a saner network topology, and it's cheaper. It has nothing to do with California.

2. Google isn't moving either.

3. A large majority of Apple workers, and Google workers, for that matter, voted for Obama and voted precisely for the kind of carbon tax or cap and trade scheme that we will get. Both companies are working to reduce their carbon footprints, even without being legally required to do so.

4. Al Gore, you might want to know, is on Apple's board.

5. "rediciolus" is spelled RIDICULOUS.

6. If you like pollution and low taxes, you are free to move to Texas (or, if you already live there, to stay), and buy a Dell or something to support your local economy.

[piot]

Originally Posted by macxpress

giving Apple a $1 Billion tax incentive

Try reading
the original post..


.. again!

[macxpress]

Not everything Apple does is in California anyways. They have offices all over the US that do various tings. As quick FYI: iWork isn't created in California, its actually created Pennsylvania.

[macxpress]

Originally Posted by piot

Try reading
the original post..


.. again!

I don't want to...I like what said better.

[ptysell]

Originally Posted by Alonso Perez

Here are a few things you should know:
1. Apple isn't moving anywhere. Companies routinely geographically distribute infrastructure resources. It's more redundant, results in a saner network topology, and it's cheaper. It has nothing to do with California.

When did I say Apple would be moving their company headquarters? The point is that more and more infrastructure will be build out of the state.

Originally Posted by Alonso Perez

2. Google isn't moving either.

Did I even mention Google?

Originally Posted by Alonso Perez

3. A large majority of Apple workers, and Google workers, for that matter, voted for Obama and voted precisely for the kind of carbon tax or cap and trade scheme that we will get. Both companies are working to reduce their carbon footprints, even without being legally required to do so.

Why would a company make a business decision based on what their employees want or who they voted for? Sounds like bad business to me...unless you want to end up like GM...but I guess a government run computer manufacturer is next in line...after all we have government run banks and a government owned car company and are about to have government run health care.

Originally Posted by Alonso Perez

4. Al Gore, you might want to know, is on Apple's board.

The same Al Gore that flies coast to coast on his private jet? The same Al Gore that has made hundreds of millions of dollars off scaring people? The same Al Gore that has publicly stated he intends to become the first "green billionaire"? Sounds like his intentions are really the environment and not making money off of it.

Originally Posted by Alonso Perez

5. "rediciolus" is spelled RIDICULOUS.

Ok, you have me on that one. Because you cannot refute my post in any logical way you resort to personal attacks.

Originally Posted by Alonso Perez

6. If you like pollution and low taxes, you are free to move to Texas (or, if you already live there, to stay), and buy a Dell or something to support your local economy.

I guess you didn't get the memo but the state of California is bankrupt. California has on of the highest tax burdens in the country. The tax base that has traditionally bear the majority of the tax burden in the state are moving out of the state. Furthermore, many companies are building in other state because of the high cost of doing business. I guess this is not a problem if you want a "green" state, high taxes, massive budget shortfalls, and no jobs....but then who is going to pay the high taxes? Oh wait......

[al_bundy]

Originally Posted by macxpress

I just can't see how giving Apple a $1 Billion tax incentive to hire less than 100 people is helping anything.

But I guess the money Apple would have to invest in this would make up for it.

because they won't see that 1$ billion in tax revenue either if apple builds this in another state

[MySchizoBuddy]

i might not understand American tax laws
but it doesn't say Apple is getting a $1B tax break
it says Apple will save $43M in 10 years if it invests $1B

[Constable Odo]

Anyone know what the prime use of this server farm would be? Mobile.Me would one of it's uses, I suppose. Can anyone think beyond this use? Does Apple already have a server farm on the West Coast. Anyone think that this might be an entry into the enterprise?

[otayranchdweeb]

One billion dollars to build a server farm? Where are they buying these servers, the Apple Store?

[WelshDog]

Originally Posted by ptysell

if you want a "green" state, high taxes, massive budget shortfalls, and no jobs.

These things are not necessarily connected in any way. It is certainly possible to have a very green state that also has a healthy economy. Just because it hasn't worked in California doesn't mean it can't work elsewhere.

Regarding Apple's potential tax break in North Carolina: Taxes should be the same in every state and there should be no tax variances/abatements granted to anyone. Those are nothing more than bribery. We have had a lot of those here in Texas and they never bring the jobs and secondary economic boost promised. Just more corporate welfare.

[macxpress]

Originally Posted by otayranchdweeb

One billion dollars to build a server farm? Where are they buying these servers, the Apple Store?

Well the building costs money to build too.

[macxpress]

Originally Posted by MySchizoBuddy

i might not understand American tax laws
but it doesn't say Apple is getting a $1B tax break
it says Apple will save $43M in 10 years if it invests $1B

Don't listen to my first post. It was foolish...

I've been hanging around tekstud too much I guess.

[MacTel]

So iTunes Music Store, MobileMe, iWork, and the iPhone push notification are some of the things that Apple can use this server farm for. It's probably the iPhone push notification that is tipping the iceberg.

It'll be interesting to see what else they have in mind for this. Maybe they're tired of working with Google and want to compete with them. Nah, Apple's no dumb.

[MsNly]

Originally Posted by WelshDog

Regarding Apple's potential tax break in North Carolina: Taxes should be the same in every state and there should be no tax variances/abatements granted to anyone. Those are nothing more than bribery.

NC really needs this. We are in the double-digit unemployment and its really showing. I just hope they build it close to where I live so maybe I could get a job at it.

[macxpress]

Originally Posted by MsNly

NC really needs this. We are in the double-digit unemployment and its really showing. I just hope they build it close to where I live so maybe I could get a job at it.

The article said you were in double digit employment tho?

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

North Carolina is facing steep, double-digit employment and could thus soften the blow by giving incentives to companies to do business within the state. Google has been operating a server farm of its own in the state since 2008.

It would be great if you got a job there! Everyone needs work these days!

[WelshDog]

Originally Posted by MsNly

NC really needs this. We are in the double-digit unemployment and its really showing. I just hope they build it close to where I live so maybe I could get a job at it.

Well I guess my statement was from the standpoint of a taxpayer, but from the standpoint of a worker I feel your pain. In order to keep my job I took a 32% pay cut last November. No sign of my pay level being restored any time soon. Things suck all over. Good luck.

[verucabong]

Originally Posted by Constable Odo

Anyone know what the prime use of this server farm would be? Mobile.Me would one of it's uses, I suppose. Can anyone think beyond this use? Does Apple already have a server farm on the West Coast. Anyone think that this might be an entry into the enterprise?

It's absolutely impossible that Apple is making an entry into the Enterprise. I deal in Enterprise computing and their "enterprise" offerings are a f-ing joke. You could put "enterprise" on a word a day calendar for every day for a year and they still wouldn't know the meaning.

[aplnub]

Originally Posted by Alonso Perez

Here are a few things you should know:

3. A large majority of Apple workers, and Google workers, for that matter, voted for Obama and voted precisely for the kind of carbon tax or cap and trade scheme that we will get. Both companies are working to reduce their carbon footprints, even without being legally required to do so.

You have several points that I would address but this one stood out the most. If the the majority of the two companies voted for Obama then they need to get their actions where their vote went.

Snippet

Originally Posted by eWeek.com

Specifically, two Google searches on a computer can generate almost the same amount of CO2 (carbon dioxide) as boiling a kettle for a cup of tea.

[aplnub]

Originally Posted by verucabong

It's absolutely impossible that Apple is making an entry into the Enterprise. I deal in Enterprise computing and their "enterprise" offerings are a f-ing joke. You could put "enterprise" on a word a day calendar for every day for a year and they still wouldn't know the meaning.

You have a point. But let's consider the other side of the equation. Do you believe that the vast majority of server hardware that is sold today will be sold to the same people in the future? My company is moving everything to the "cloud" and we are loving it. We use Google to run our company intranet and operations. We have also begun to use SalesForce.com (which is tied tightly to Google) to handle our sales CRM and advanced operations for that end of the company.

My point is, small businesses around the world are not going to buy the MacPro to run their companies. We, small businesses, are turning to platform independent solutions that require an internet connection and browser. The world of business is changing and maybe Apple is getting ready to have an Apple Doc's type setup like Google does. If they made the right move, we would move our intranet and internal operations like email, calendar, scheduling, document sharing within our domain, etc. to Apple in two heart beats.

[aplnub]

Originally Posted by MsNly

NC really needs this. We are in the double-digit unemployment and its really showing. I just hope they build it close to where I live so maybe I could get a job at it.

It is because your NC's economy is based on tourism. I'm next door to you and I know your pain. Let's hope Apple makes the move because I know the volunteer state would.

[e1618978]

Originally Posted by aplnub

It is because your NC's economy is based on tourism. I'm next door to you and I know your pain. Let's hope Apple makes the move because I know the volunteer state would.

Maybe at the beach but not in the state as a whole, but NC's economy is based on furniture and tobacco.

And name me a place that does NOT have double digit employment... Maybe Somolia or something. Any place that has less than 10% is probably a war zone, and 100% would result in uncontrollable wage inflation.

[ForceQuit]

Originally Posted by otayranchdweeb

One billion dollars to build a server farm? Where are they buying these servers, the Apple Store?

[WelshDog]

If you want to see the areas with double digit UNemployment check this map.

AP Economic Stress Map

And considering the location of Apple's server farm, while it would make sense to build in an area that needs employment it is not the primary concern. Reliable power is very important to server farms. Google built one in Oregon in a somewhat remote location because is had easy access to hydroelectric power which is very reliable compared to most other sources. Of course parts North Carolina are on TVA power which also has many hydro plants. Wonder if that is a consideration with Apple?

[skittlebrau79]

Originally Posted by ptysell

Why would a company make a business decision based on what their employees want or who they voted for? Sounds like bad business to me...unless you want to end up like GM...but I guess a government run computer manufacturer is next in line...after all we have government run banks and a government owned car company and are about to have government run health care.

The government isn't running any part of the banks or the car companies. If they were, maybe we would have banks that actually lent money instead of horded it.

Originally Posted by ptysell

The same Al Gore that flies coast to coast on his private jet? The same Al Gore that has made hundreds of millions of dollars off scaring people? The same Al Gore that has publicly stated he intends to become the first "green billionaire"? Sounds like his intentions are really the environment and not making money off of it.

These are myths that are perpetuated on the Internet. Yes he did take a private jet sometimes. So does Steve Jobs. But according to http://www.apple.com/hotnews/agreenerapple/, Steve Jobs wants Apple to "be greener". So does it make Steve Jobs a hypocrite for saying he cares about the environment, when he doesn't because he takes a private jet?

And I don't see how he "scares people" to make money. He made a documentary that made a lot of money. He writes books that make a lot of money. The science in them is sound, and in fact is supported by peer-reviewed journals. Note that not a single peer reviewed scientific journal has refuted a single fact in "An Inconvenient Truth". In fact many of them lauded it. So tell me again, how does he "scare people"? If the truth is scary, tough shit.

Ok, you have me on that one. Because you cannot refute my post in any logical way you resort to personal attacks.

Since when is good grammar and spelling personal?

I guess you didn't get the memo but the state of California is bankrupt.

Technically they aren't. There have been no bankruptcy proceedings. But anyway, the United States of America would be bankrupt, if it didn't just print more money and issue more bonds whenever it needs it. If California could just issue more bounds it would, but they can't because nobody will buy them. The US Government issues bonds--lots of them in fact--and relies on the fact that China will buy them. When China stopped a couple months ago, the world paniced and Obama accused China of manipulating world economies (which is true).

California has on of the highest tax burdens in the country. The tax base that has traditionally bear the majority of the tax burden in the state are moving out of the state.

Prove it. According to federal sources summed up @ http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08230/904931-109.stm, California has the 6th highest tax burden of any state, when measured as a percentage of GDP. Get the facts right.

The budget crisis is largely a result of the stock market crash. Capital gains taxes account for large amounts of tax revenue for California, which is the case for many large states with wealthy populations like New York. Nobody wants to sell stock when prices are low, so all those Apple employees with options below water are just sitting on them. Therefore, California loses out on revenue.

Finally, the recently passed tax increases in California actually LOWER taxes for corporations. It changes the way the revenue basis for tax purposes is calculated in such a way that is favorable to corporations. Basically without going into too much detail it allows companies based in California use the number of employees in California/revenue, instead of purely revenue, to determine taxation. For some companies this will increase taxes, but that means they are making a lot of money with few employees in California yet still claim California is their corporate headquarters--so yeah boo to them. For large companies like Apple and Google, who are all headquartered in the Bay, this will be beneficial.

Furthermore, many companies are building in other state because of the high cost of doing business. I guess this is not a problem if you want a "green" state, high taxes, massive budget shortfalls, and no jobs....but then who is going to pay the high taxes? Oh wait......

False. First, California's unemployment isn't the highest in the nation, they are fourth (that's easily googled). Second, California doesn't have the highest taxes in the nation as noted above. Third, MANY states have budget shortfalls. California's is huge, but then again California is the largest state in the nation by far. More than 1/10 of the country lives in that state, and 1/8th of the nation's economy is from California. Put another way, the US deficit from 2007 was almost 500 billion, or $1,428/person. California's $48 billion deficit is approximately $1,333/person.

[federmoose]

Originally Posted by skittlebrau79

The government isn't running any part of the banks or the car companies. If they were, maybe we would have banks that actually lent money instead of horded it.


These are myths that are perpetuated on the Internet. Yes he did take a private jet sometimes. So does Steve Jobs. But according to http://www.apple.com/hotnews/agreenerapple/, Steve Jobs wants Apple to "be greener". So does it make Steve Jobs a hypocrite for saying he cares about the environment, when he doesn't because he takes a private jet?

And I don't see how he "scares people" to make money. He made a documentary that made a lot of money. He writes books that make a lot of money. The science in them is sound, and in fact is supported by peer-reviewed journals. Note that not a single peer reviewed scientific journal has refuted a single fact in "An Inconvenient Truth". In fact many of them lauded it. So tell me again, how does he "scare people"? If the truth is scary, tough shit.


Since when is good grammar and spelling personal?



Technically they aren't. There have been no bankruptcy proceedings. But anyway, the United States of America would be bankrupt, if it didn't just print more money and issue more bonds whenever it needs it. If California could just issue more bounds it would, but they can't because nobody will buy them. The US Government issues bonds--lots of them in fact--and relies on the fact that China will buy them. When China stopped a couple months ago, the world paniced and Obama accused China of manipulating world economies (which is true).


Prove it. According to federal sources summed up @ http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08230/904931-109.stm, California has the 6th highest tax burden of any state, when measured as a percentage of GDP. Get the facts right.

The budget crisis is largely a result of the stock market crash. Capital gains taxes account for large amounts of tax revenue for California, which is the case for many large states with wealthy populations like New York. Nobody wants to sell stock when prices are low, so all those Apple employees with options below water are just sitting on them. Therefore, California loses out on revenue.

Finally, the recently passed tax increases in California actually LOWER taxes for corporations. It changes the way the revenue basis for tax purposes is calculated in such a way that is favorable to corporations. Basically without going into too much detail it allows companies based in California use the number of employees in California/revenue, instead of purely revenue, to determine taxation. For some companies this will increase taxes, but that means they are making a lot of money with few employees in California yet still claim California is their corporate headquarters--so yeah boo to them. For large companies like Apple and Google, who are all headquartered in the Bay, this will be beneficial.


False. First, California's unemployment isn't the highest in the nation, they are fourth (that's easily googled). Second, California doesn't have the highest taxes in the nation as noted above. Third, MANY states have budget shortfalls. California's is huge, but then again California is the largest state in the nation by far. More than 1/10 of the country lives in that state, and 1/8th of the nation's economy is from California. Put another way, the US deficit from 2007 was almost 500 billion, or $1,428/person. California's $48 billion deficit is approximately $1,333/person.

Sorry to quote the whole response here... but it is deserving. Score 1 for educated responses. Score 0 for uneducated populist ramblings.

To the guy he's quoting (ptysell)... that google energy article you linked... did you read anything more than the title?

[brucep]

Originally Posted by skittlebrau79

The government isn't running any part of the banks or the car companies. If they were, maybe we would have banks that actually lent money instead of horded it.


These are myths that are perpetuated on the Internet. Yes he did take a private jet sometimes. So does Steve Jobs. But according to http://www.apple.com/hotnews/agreenerapple/, Steve Jobs wants Apple to "be greener". So does it make Steve Jobs a hypocrite for saying he cares about the environment, when he doesn't because he takes a private jet?

And I don't see how he "scares people" to make money. He made a documentary that made a lot of money. He writes books that make a lot of money. The science in them is sound, and in fact is supported by peer-reviewed journals. Note that not a single peer reviewed scientific journal has refuted a single fact in "An Inconvenient Truth". In fact many of them lauded it. So tell me again, how does he "scare people"? If the truth is scary, tough shit.


Since when is good grammar and spelling personal?



Technically they aren't. There have been no bankruptcy proceedings. But anyway, the United States of America would be bankrupt, if it didn't just print more money and issue more bonds whenever it needs it. If California could just issue more bounds it would, but they can't because nobody will buy them. The US Government issues bonds--lots of them in fact--and relies on the fact that China will buy them. When China stopped a couple months ago, the world paniced and Obama accused China of manipulating world economies (which is true).


Prove it. According to federal sources summed up @ http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08230/904931-109.stm, California has the 6th highest tax burden of any state, when measured as a percentage of GDP. Get the facts right.

The budget crisis is largely a result of the stock market crash. Capital gains taxes account for large amounts of tax revenue for California, which is the case for many large states with wealthy populations like New York. Nobody wants to sell stock when prices are low, so all those Apple employees with options below water are just sitting on them. Therefore, California loses out on revenue.

Finally, the recently passed tax increases in California actually LOWER taxes for corporations. It changes the way the revenue basis for tax purposes is calculated in such a way that is favorable to corporations. Basically without going into too much detail it allows companies based in California use the number of employees in California/revenue, instead of purely revenue, to determine taxation. For some companies this will increase taxes, but that means they are making a lot of money with few employees in California yet still claim California is their corporate headquarters--so yeah boo to them. For large companies like Apple and Google, who are all headquartered in the Bay, this will be beneficial.


False. First, California's unemployment isn't the highest in the nation, they are fourth (that's easily googled). Second, California doesn't have the highest taxes in the nation as noted above. Third, MANY states have budget shortfalls. California's is huge, but then again California is the largest state in the nation by far. More than 1/10 of the country lives in that state, and 1/8th of the nation's economy is from California. Put another way, the US deficit from 2007 was almost 500 billion, or $1,428/person. California's $48 billion deficit is approximately $1,333/person.

great read
dude
SO why does the server farm cost 1 billion dollars ???

[federmoose]

Originally Posted by brucep

so
dude
why does the server farm cost 1 billion dollars ???

I'm gonna doubt that the 1bil is initial coast, but rather cost of upkeep and energy over time. Not to mention construction costs etc. There are a LOT of things that may help reach the 1bil figure.

[mdriftmeyer]

Come to Spokane, WA. We've got a fat old pipe that has WSU right down town with the Sirti Project.

We'll give you all sorts of incentives.

Just ignore Seattle and I'll be thrilled.

[Aizmov]

Originally Posted by macxpress

I'd rather see a state give Apple a $1 Billion tax break to bring its assembly plants back to the US. Then we will put people permanently back to work. The construction to build this thing is only temporary. If you're going to give someone a $1 Billion tax break it better damn well be a permanent thing and not a 6-8 month thing.

No one said anything about a $1B tax break.

Even so, if Apple made an assembly plant in the US it will be fully automated just like NeXT's and will probably only employ 100 people, if not less.

That said, I want Apple to bring back manufacturing to the US, even if only for their highend high margin products like the Mac Pro and XServe.

[Johhny Motel]

Doesn't Apple already have a big data centre in CA from 2006. It was an article here on Ai, there were Google earth pixs and stuff. Guess they must have filled that one already!!

[brucep]

Originally Posted by federmoose

I'm gonna doubt that the 1bil is initial coast, but rather cost of upkeep and energy over time. Not to mention construction costs etc. There are a LOT of things that may help reach the 1bil figure.

wow
really
what does one billion dollars buy ??
Its just a farm for servers .
And the price of everything has fallen .

This seems like a monster place .I wonder how many servers it takes to run all those billion dollar s of servers and would you need a few more servers to run those servers ?? Or would a g3 imac do the job ??

i guess itunes just got powerful .