Apple quietly testing first betas of Mac OS X 10.5.8

[AppleInsider]

Apple this week is reported to be testing the first internal builds of Mac OS X 10.5.8, one of the final updates, if not the last, slated for its current Leopard operating system software.

News of this particular maintenance update is significant for owners of PowerPC-based Macs, given that Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard requires a Mac with an Intel processor. That means Mac OS X 10.5.8 or 10.5.9 will likely represent Apple's final push towards solidify and stabilize Leopard before shifting the majority of its resources towards the first point release of Snow Leopard, which will arrive this fall.

Rarely has Mac maker committed resources to providing further updates for its previous-generation operating systems after having launched a major new milestone release. Instead, successive updates are often limited to critical security updates and individual component compatibility fixes.

According to people familiar with the matter, roughly a dozen builds of Mac OS X 10.5.8 have been compiled to date, with the most recent builds reportedly standing as members of the 9Lxx build train. Mac OS X 10.5.7 development culminated with the release of build 9J61, suggesting that the 9Kxx build train was used for a customized milestone of 10.5.7 that bundles support for one or several of the new Mac notebook products introduced Monday.

At this time, it's unclear exactly which system components Mac OS X 10.5.8 will address. However, a cursory review of Apple's support forums shows quite a few threads from users who've been hit with network-related issues after upgrading to Mac OS X 10.5.7 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5).

Meanwhile, a variety of other discussion threads detail several additional issues faced by users after upgrading to 10.5.7, such as random freezes, problems with DVD playback, loss of Bluetooth connectivity, broken Time Machine backups, and invalid digital signature warnings.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[mcarling]

I expect 10.5.8 will be the last Leopard release and to release several weeks after Snow Leopard. I don't expect to ever see a 10.5.9.

[dak splunder]

Originally Posted by mcarling

I expect 10.5.8 will be the last Leopard release and to release several weeks after Snow Leopard. I don't expect to ever see a 10.5.9.

Gosh. What a well-reasoned argument.

:d

[8CoreWhore]

Come on PPC users - get yourselves a great new Mac!

[hypoluxa]

Originally Posted by 8CoreWhore

Come on PPC users - get yourselves a great new Mac!

I will I will! My G5 is doing just dandy though right now. I was thinking of a new MacBook but it looks as if Ill be looking at a 13in MBPro now.

[HappyPhil]

I hope the new upgrade addresses the crummy display results I got as a result of the last upgrade/date.

[ltcommander.data]

Originally Posted by mcarling

I expect 10.5.8 will be the last Leopard release and to release several weeks after Snow Leopard. I don't expect to ever see a 10.5.9.

I'm of the opinion that 10.5.9 is very likely given the timeframe. Snow Leopard won't be released until September and given that 10.5.8 already exists internally, it's almost certain it'll be released before Snow Leopard. It seems unlikely that it'll take Apple 3 months or more to develop 10.5.8. 10.5.9 will then likely be the final update to Leopard, released after Snow Leopard, just like 10.4.11 was released after Leopard.

[Cubert]

HAH!!! To all those who said 10.5.7 would be the last!

[pik80]

Originally Posted by 8CoreWhore

Come on PPC users - get yourselves a great new Mac!

The new Macs don't provide anything I need so it wouldn't make any sense to get one. Spending $2,500 on a new MacPro just to get modest operating system upgrade seems a little expensive.

It's really a bummer, I was hoping to use some of the refinements. I wonder how long 3rd parties will support Leopard (and therefore the PowerPC?) If they will keep putting out new updates for Leopard for the next 2-3 years than I will be content.

[Bregalad]

Originally Posted by 8CoreWhore

Come on PPC users - get yourselves a great new Mac!

I have a dual G5 that does everything I need it to do. It's still plenty fast for a home computer and the two internal drive bays let me have lots of storage without a bunch of external boxes and wires going everywhere.

Having said that I'm really excited about Snow Leopard and want to get a new Mac once it comes out. Unfortunately the current desktop lineup doesn't excite me at all. Money is tight. When I buy a new computer I need it to last 4-5 years. The mini has great reliability stats, but is not going to perform very well in the 8-core universe a few years from now. The iMac has a long list of issues including higher than average repair history, excessive glare, crap TN display in the 20" model, and uneven backlighting/color in the 24" model. It's also going to look really slow in a couple of years with its dual core processor and entry level GPU.

Before anyone says it, notebooks have zero appeal for me. My home computer never needs to leave the house.

[DocNo42]

Originally Posted by Bregalad

Before anyone says it, notebooks have zero appeal for me. My home computer never needs to leave the house.

I'm pretty much the same way, but still went with a Mac Book Pro - it was the best mix of features and performance as I want to use Aperture and the iMac GPU's are a little wanting. And my version of the MacBook Pro can take a bootable eSATA express card so I can get fast desktop drive performance. And it is nice being able to take it with me when I like

I would like a two slot mini-tower - something along the lines of the old Mac IIcx/IIci - some of the most popular desktop Mac's of all time. Something that would let me have a couple of hard drives and an upgradeable GPU.....

[doystin]

let's not forget about the little problem 10.5.7 caused with powerpc machines tied to an OD
http://discussions.apple.com/thread....sageID=9470801

[melgross]

Originally Posted by mcarling

I expect 10.5.8 will be the last Leopard release and to release several weeks after Snow Leopard. I don't expect to ever see a 10.5.9.

This is what people were saying about 10.5.7.

[mdriftmeyer]

Originally Posted by 8CoreWhore

Come on PPC users - get yourselves a great new Mac!

I will when they make the Mac Pro more affordable [and all Greeny] or create a middle tier mid-tower.

I'll bite on the hardware when 10.6.3 is out.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by pik80

The new Macs don't provide anything I need so it wouldn't make any sense to get one. Spending $2,500 on a new MacPro just to get modest operating system upgrade seems a little expensive.

It's really a bummer, I was hoping to use some of the refinements. I wonder how long 3rd parties will support Leopard (and therefore the PowerPC?) If they will keep putting out new updates for Leopard for the next 2-3 years than I will be content.

I suspect that you're good for at least the next 12 months, possibly 18.

After that, most developers will be dropping PPC support. By then there will be few PPC machines in use, and the cost to continue upgrades will be too high for the payback.

[mdriftmeyer]

Originally Posted by melgross

I suspect that you're good for at least the next 12 months, possibly 18.

After that, most developers will be dropping PPC support. By then there will be few PPC machines in use, and the cost to continue upgrades will be too high for the payback.

They can move to Linux on PPC and know they can have Debian or many other distros to continue using the system in conjunction with their new OS X box(es). I know I would do that.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer

They can move to Linux on PPC and know they can have Debian or many other distros to continue using the system in conjunction with their new OS X box(es). I know I would do that.

You might, but very few others would. It's just not a reasonable choice.

For those who really like Linux, it's fine, but otherwise, it's not.

For most people Linux is a real step down. I would recommend Windows first.

[berw6]

In /System/Library/CoreServices the Finder.app is v10.5.8

[Sevenfeet]

I think that 10.4.11 came out 2-3 months AFTER Leopard was released.

[pondosinatra]

Maybe they'll fix that little gem of having the fonts and spacing different when you select the Help menu.

Anyone know when this little 'improvement' was introduced?

[a Martin]

Not a major issue, but please fix the ”application switcher not always showing all running apps” bug.
Helps to quit (and thus re-launch) the Dock process in Activity Monitor until it happens again.

Also it would be great if the Bonjour function that shows computers/devices on the local network under ”Shared” in a Finder window could be more stable. Sometimes it seems to ”get stuck in the old network”*when one move to a new network — not updating to show what's on the current network.

[hillstones]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Rarely has Mac maker committed resources to providing further updates for its previous-generation operating systems after having launched a major new milestone release. Instead, successive updates are often limited to critical security updates and individual component compatibility fixes.

I guess AppleInsider isn't familiar with Mac OS X Tiger 10.4.11, which was released after Leopard. I would hardly call Snow Leopard a major new milestone release.

[hillstones]

Originally Posted by 8CoreWhore

Come on PPC users - get yourselves a great new Mac!

Go ahead and buy me one. I have better things to spend my money on.

[hillstones]

Originally Posted by a Martin

Not a major issue, but please fix the ”application switcher not always showing all running apps” bug.
Helps to quit (and thus re-launch) the Dock process in Activity Monitor until it happens again.

I don't have those problems. You have something else going on.

[a Martin]

Originally Posted by hillstones

I don't have those problems. You have something else going on.

Hmm... maybe, but I'm not alone: http://discussions.apple.com/thread....art=0&tstart=0
It also happens on every computer I've used, but I should point out that it's quite rare and only happens after extensive use (and also in conjunction with sleep/wake?) running several apps (10+) and switching between them a lot. It's quite inconsistent though, and once the bug is triggered it doesn't happen every time, just that it *will* come back more frequently than if the Dock is restarted.

[WPLJ42]

It would make sense, at least to me, for Apple to continue to sell Leopard. Maybe give it another year or so. For me, can't see any reason to upgrade to Snow Leopard. I have an aluminum iMac 20 with 2 GHz Core 2 Duo and just 1 Gig of RAM. Not that it is hard, but I am all thumbs and don't feel the need to upgrade my memory. Leopard does not give me any troubles. So even at $29, I say skip it.

[minderbinder]

Originally Posted by 8CoreWhore

Come on PPC users - get yourselves a great new Mac!

Sure, it makes perfect sense to trash a perfectly good machine and spend thousands on a new one just because apple wants you to.

The big question I have is how long Apple will support apps like FCS and Logic on PPC. I'm not optimistic.

Originally Posted by hillstones

I guess AppleInsider isn't familiar with Mac OS X Tiger 10.4.11, which was released after Leopard. I would hardly call Snow Leopard a major new milestone release.

Sure looks like they are considering they said "rarely" instead of "never". And apple is certainly spinning SL as a major release, whether everyone agrees or not.

Originally Posted by WPLJ42

It would make sense, at least to me, for Apple to continue to sell Leopard. Maybe give it another year or so. For me, can't see any reason to upgrade to Snow Leopard. I have an aluminum iMac 20 with 2 GHz Core 2 Duo and just 1 Gig of RAM. Not that it is hard, but I am all thumbs and don't feel the need to upgrade my memory. Leopard does not give me any troubles. So even at $29, I say skip it.

I guess once it ships, people benchmarking on machines like yours will answer the question of whether the upgrade is worth it. Plus there are a few new features, depends if they are ones you would want.

[mdriftmeyer]

Originally Posted by melgross

You might, but very few others would. It's just not a reasonable choice.

For those who really like Linux, it's fine, but otherwise, it's not.

For most people Linux is a real step down. I would recommend Windows first.

Gee. I had no idea Windows runs PPC. Re think your comment.

[pik80]

Originally Posted by melgross

I suspect that you're good for at least the next 12 months, possibly 18.

After that, most developers will be dropping PPC support. By then there will be few PPC machines in use, and the cost to continue upgrades will be too high for the payback.

You don't think there will be many PowerMac G5s in use in 18 months? I can understand the other PowerPC Macs but the PowerMac G5 is still really fast today. I can see using it maybe another 3 or 4 years since it hasn't seemed to slow down at all over the past 5 years.

I can easily stay on Adobe CS4 as I probably only used about 25% of the features it already has. I would definitely like to keep seeing lots of updates to Cha-Ching, Things, and Live Interior though.

[pik80]

Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer

Gee. I had no idea Windows runs PPC. Re think your comment.

Windows used to run on PowerPC. You can't boot into it from Leopard though, you have to have Tiger or earlier. I think the software was called Virtual PC.

[jonnyboy]

i bought a bluetooth mouse over the weekend, and as such became aware of a seemingly common problem with 10.5.7: bluetooth timeout/disconnection problems. glad to see at least that it is on the list to be fixed, so let's hope the update comes out soon

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by WPLJ42

It would make sense, at least to me, for Apple to continue to sell Leopard. Maybe give it another year or so. For me, can't see any reason to upgrade to Snow Leopard. I have an aluminum iMac 20 with 2 GHz Core 2 Duo and just 1 Gig of RAM. Not that it is hard, but I am all thumbs and don't feel the need to upgrade my memory. Leopard does not give me any troubles. So even at $29, I say skip it.

You should have someone bump the RAM to 2 or 4GB for you and install Snow Leopard after it's had a few point releases. But then again there's no rush ..it isn't going anywhere but I tell you just the reports i'm reading about the stability and performance of Snow Leopard is enouraging. You don't need a 8 core Mac Pro to experience the benefits.