Apple details Mac OS X Snow Leopard Up-to-Date Program

[AppleInsider]

As promised, Apple on Tuesday updated its website with information on how customers purchasing a new Mac or Xserve before the release of Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard in September can request a copy of the new operating system for just $10 in shipping and handling.

The Mac maker has broken the Up-to-Date Program into two sections: "Hardware Up-To-Date" for customers purchasing a new Mac running Mac OS X client software and "Mac OS X Snow Leopard Server Up-To-Date" for those buying an Xserve running Mac OS X Server.

Hardware Up-To-Date

Customers who purchase a qualifying new Mac computer (list of models) or a qualifying Apple Certified Refurbished computer (list of models) on or after June 8, 2009 that does not include Mac OS X Snow Leopard can upgrade to Snow Leopard for $9.95 plus tax.

To participate, your completed order form must be postmarked or faxed within 90 days of the date of your purchase of the qualifying Mac or by December 26, 2009, whichever is earlier.

If you purchased your Mac directly from the Apple Online Store, follow one of these links to participate in the program:
US Customers
Canadian Customers (English)
Canadian Customers (French)
If you purchased multiple qualifying Macs on a single invoice, you can either (1) purchase a Single-User Upgrade Kit for each qualifying product, at a cost of $9.95; or (2) purchase fewer Single-User Upgrade Kits and request the Right to Copy for the remaining qualifying products.

If you purchased your computer from an Apple Retail Store or an Apple authorized reseller, follow one of these links to participate in the program:
US Customers
Canadian Customers (English)
Canadian Customers (French)
Those customers who instead prefer to mail or fax their order can instead download and print this order form [PDF].

Mac OS X Snow Leopard Server Up-To-Date

Customers who purchase a qualifying Xserve [ MA882LL/A, MB449LL/A. Z0E7, Z0FR, Z0GM ] or an Apple Certified Refurbished Xserve (list of models) on or after June 8, 2009 that does not include Mac OS X Server v10.6 Snow Leopard Unlimited Client software can also upgrade to Mac OS X Server v10.6 Snow Leopard Unlimited Client for $9.95 plus tax.

Again, completed order forms must be postmarked or faxed within 90 days of the date of your purchase of a qualifying Xserve or by December 26, 2009, whichever is earlier.

If you purchased your Xserve directly from the Apple Online Store, follow one of these links to participate in the program:
US Customers
Canadian Customers (English)
Canadian Customers (French)
If you purchased your Xserve from an Apple Retail Store or an Apple authorized reseller, follow one of these links to participate in the program:
US Customers
Canadian Customers (English)
Canadian Customers (French)
Those customers who instead prefer to mail or fax their order can instead download and print this order form [PDF].

Delivery

Once Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard becomes available in September, Apple says it will ship out upgrade discs "within 24 hours" of receiving a customer's completed order form and the required payment.

Upgrade discs will ship out via U.S. mail (U.S. postal delivery typically takes 3 to 7 working days). Canadian orders may require additional delivery time due to customs processing.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[MacTripper]

Upgrade Disks are a troubleshooters pain in the ass later on!

My advice, wait a bit until you can get the original Snow Leopard OS disks if all possible with a new machine. Especially for newbies!


If your a bit more adapt, learn to clone your Leopard boot drive to another hard drive.

Wait until there is a Snow Leopard update for cloning software and Snow Leopard is stabilized before cloning the new OS over your old Leopard clone.

Always have at least one other hard drive to "option" boot from that contains your snapshot of your original boot drive (including cloning software to reverse clone) before making any drastic changes. Two hard drive clones are preferred, keep one staggered back in time.

With a OS update, lots of things break and/or may require a costly update your not prepared to pay or wait for.

Don't be one of those "Snow Leopard broke my Photoshop and I don't have a backup!!" type crybabies later on.

Visit Carbon Copy Cloner or Superduper websites to learn how to clone your Leopard boot drive properly. I always Erase w/Zero any new drive regardless to improve data retention.

Cloning will save your bacon one day. It has mine twice.


>>>For newbies or if you can't understand cloning, just wait until Snow Leopard is stabilized and confirm all your present software will work before you update. Until then, just keep your Time Machine drive connected and wait for the all clear.<<<


If your interested in my method for cloning, check out the Genius section of AppleInsider

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=32364

[anantksundaram]

Quick, simple question: Does anyone have insights on how a family pack for 10.6 will be priced in a situation in which one of four machines at home is on Tiger, and the rest, Leopard?

(I wonder why Apple required me to enter my id and password to access this information - I figured I'll post the question here instead, since others in a similar situation may also benefit from the kindness of an answer.)

[Galley]

It seems that some folks would be better off picking up the Mac Box Set (Leopard/iLife '09/iWork '09) which I have seen for as little as $125 on Amazon, and then order the $29 Snow Leopard upgrade separately.

[LE Studios]

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

Quick, simple question: Does anyone have insights on how a family pack for 10.6 will be priced in a situation in which one of four machines at home is on Tiger, and the rest, Leopard?

(I wonder why Apple required me to enter my id and password to access this information - I figured I'll post the question here instead, since others in a similar situation may also benefit from the kindness of an answer.)

Family Pack OS X Snow Leopard will be $49!

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by LE Studios

Family Pack OS X Snow Leopard will be $49!

Are you sure? Why does Apple's tech specs page (www.apple.com/macosx/specs.html) make a distinction between upgrading from Leopard and upgrading from Tiger:

Upgrading from Mac OS X v10.5 Leopard.
If your Intel-based Mac is running Mac OS X v10.5 Leopard, just purchase Mac OS X v10.6 Snow Leopard when it’s available and follow the simple installation instructions.

Upgrading from Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger.
If your Intel-based Mac is running Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger, purchase the Mac Box Set (when available), which is a single, affordable package that includes Mac OS X v10.6 Snow Leopard; iLife ’09, with the latest versions of iPhoto, iMovie, GarageBand, iWeb, and iDVD; and iWork ’09, Apple’s productivity suite for home and office including Pages, Numbers, and Keynote.

[LighteningKid]

Originally Posted by LE Studios

Family Pack OS X Snow Leopard will be $49!

Well, it'll be $49 to upgrade the Leopard computers, right? From what I understood, the Tiger computer will still have to be upgraded at full cost. Or I suppose the Tiger could be upgraded to Leopard, and then all the computers could be upgraded with the Family Pack. And then you'd have an extra Leopard disc, just in case.

[SDW2001]

Originally Posted by MacTripper

Upgrade Disks are a troubleshooters pain in the ass later on!

My advice, wait a bit until you can get the original Snow Leopard OS disks if all possible with a new machine. Especially for newbies!


If your a bit more adapt, learn to clone your Leopard boot drive to another hard drive.

Wait until there is a Snow Leopard update for cloning software and Snow Leopard is stabilized before cloning the new OS over your old Leopard clone.

Always have at least one other hard drive to "option" boot from that contains your snapshot of your original boot drive (including cloning software to reverse clone) before making any drastic changes. Two hard drive clones are preferred, keep one staggered back in time.

With a OS update, lots of things break and/or may require a costly update your not prepared to pay or wait for.

Don't be one of those "Snow Leopard broke my Photoshop and I don't have a backup!!" type crybabies later on.

Visit Carbon Copy Cloner or Superduper websites to learn how to clone your Leopard boot drive properly. I always Erase w/Zero any new drive regardless to improve data retention.

Cloning will save your bacon one day. It has mine twice.


>>>For newbies or if you can't understand cloning, just wait until Snow Leopard is stabilized and confirm all your present software will work before you update. Until then, just keep your Time Machine drive connected and wait for the all clear.<<<


If your interested in my method for cloning, check out the Genius section of AppleInsider

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=32364

This is overkill for the VAST majority of users. People running Leopard now will likely have no problem. For added peace of mind, all one has to do is backup important documents/photos/apps/music (etc) before upgrading.

Don't get me wrong, a clean install is always better. But there is no need to clone and reverse clone and all of that. Just backup, install and then run a permissions repair. You'll be fine.

[kaiwai]

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

Are you sure? Why does Apple's tech specs page (www.apple.com/macosx/specs.html) make a distinction between upgrading from Leopard and upgrading from Tiger:

Upgrading from Mac OS X v10.5 Leopard.
If your Intel-based Mac is running Mac OS X v10.5 Leopard, just purchase Mac OS X v10.6 Snow Leopard when it’s available and follow the simple installation instructions.

Upgrading from Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger.
If your Intel-based Mac is running Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger, purchase the Mac Box Set (when available), which is a single, affordable package that includes Mac OS X v10.6 Snow Leopard; iLife ’09, with the latest versions of iPhoto, iMovie, GarageBand, iWeb, and iDVD; and iWork ’09, Apple’s productivity suite for home and office including Pages, Numbers, and Keynote.

I hope that the 10.5 upgrade isn't like the 'uptodate' programme; I ended up having create an image, delete a certain file, reburn the image to a DL DVD - simply so I could do a clean install of Leopard (I was part of the uptodate programme when Leopard was released and the Intel laptop I had was running Tiger).

I hope that they don't include the 'check' and assume that most people are upgrading from Leopard - I sure as heck don't want to jump through those hoops again.

[macxpress]

I'm still confused as to how Apple is going to know whether or not you have Leopard installed. Apple said the $29 price tag for Snow Leopard is only for Leopard users so it makes you wonder...how will they know whether or not you have Leopard or Tiger installed? I guess Apple could put a checker in the Snow Leopard installer that goes out and looks for previous systems and then gets the go or no go? The only problem with that is if you're someone like me who just does an erase and install then how will it know? If Apple is going to make users dig out their copies of Leopard it will be a huge mess.

[MacTripper]

Originally Posted by SDW2001

This is overkill for the VAST majority of users. People running Leopard now will likely have no problem. For added peace of mind, all one has to do is backup important documents/photos/apps/music (etc) before upgrading.

Don't get me wrong, a clean install is always better. But there is no need to clone and reverse clone and all of that. Just backup, install and then run a permissions repair. You'll be fine.

Cloning the Leopard boot drive is not necessary before upgrading to Snow Leopard, but I highly recommended it to prevent anything un-forseen from crippling your ability to boot from your computer and seeking help online.

If the install goes bad, some programs don't work and/or need a update. You can simply option boot off the clone and get back to work until the problems get fixed.

Cloning is very effective at preventing all sorts of potential problems that were not forseen with the mirads of different configurations people have as their boot drives, especially with hardware drivers which will require a update and are not present on newer OS X install disks.

MacPro users should know they may have to wait for driver updates for their non-factory installed hardware for Snow Leopard before updating, or their machines may not boot unless returned to the original hardware specs that came with the machine.

Cloning allows one to "go back" to a previous OS install with functioning drivers, like from Snow Leopard back to Leopard for instance.

Many people make a living fixing people's computers and cloning is a threat to them because it's so effective. With this OS X update, they drool at the prospect of so many machines being hosed, even getting people to replace their hard drives needlessly.

I wouldn't say this without being a victim of these people once before. To a tune of $600 for a $100 hard drive. Last time I drop something off to a "Authorized Seller" and ask them to fix the OS, that's for sure. So I learned to clone and have been happy ever since.

So if your ready to learn about cloning, by all means do so.

I make it a practice to clone before any OS update, Apple has been known to issue buggy updates and a computer and or software being non-functional until it can be fixed by someone else may not be a option for some.

[MacTripper]

Originally Posted by macxpress

I'm still confused as to how Apple is going to know whether or not you have Leopard installed. Apple said the $29 price tag for Snow Leopard is only for Leopard users so it makes you wonder...how will they know whether or not you have Leopard or Tiger installed? I guess Apple could put a checker in the Snow Leopard installer that goes out and looks for previous systems and then gets the go or no go? The only problem with that is if you're someone like me who just does an erase and install then how will it know? If Apple is going to make users dig out their copies of Leopard it will be a huge mess.

It's a upgrade disk for Leopard only. And yes it knows the OS your trying to update with.

Yes you will have to reinstall Leopard before using the Snow Leopard upgrade disks if your doing a erase and install method.

Upgrade disks are a pain, because you have to first install Leopard then update Snow Leopard. God forbid if one of the disks gets corrupted/scratched or lost.

Problems occur when Snow Leopard gets updated over time, or hardware drivers change and you can no longer boot from write protected Leopard install disks and left with just a upgrade disk.

So that's why I say just get the full Snow Leopard OS X disks, if all possible.

Of course cloning solves this problem (and others) because instead of relying upon the OS X install disks and/or upgrade disks you rely upon your latest hard drive clone, complete with all your latest software, hardware drivers and everything.

It's sweet. But remember cloning software will have to be updated to work with Snow Leopard before you can clone with it. However cloning with Leopard should be fine.

Good luck and be prepared!

[macxpress]

Originally Posted by MacTripper

It's a upgrade disk for Leopard only.

Yes you will have to reinstall Leopard before using the Snow Leopard upgrade disks if your doing a erase and install method.

Upgrade disks are a pain, because you have to first install Leopard then Snow Leopard.

Problems occur when Snow Leopard gets updated over time and you can no longer boot from Leopard install disks and left with just a upgrade disk.

So that's why I say just get the Snow Leopard OS X disks, if all possible.

Of course cloning solves this problem because instead of relying upon the OS X install disks and/or Upgrade disks you rely upon your latest clone, complete with all your latest software, hardware drivers and everything.

It's sweet. But remember cloning software will have to be updated to work with Snow Leopard before you can clone with it. However cloning Leopard should be fine.

I've used upgrade discs in the past and was able to do an erase and install. To me it acted just like a regular installer DVD. If it really is going to be a pain in the ass...I can get an educational discount so I'll just fork out the money and buy the regular boxed version.

[meelash]

Yeah, MacTripper do you have any experience with Apple selling upgrade-only disks in the past? As far as I know you can always do a clean install from any OS X disk if you want.

I was under the impression the whole discount for upgrade was going to be almost honor system based, you know, like put in the serial number of your previous OS online at order or something. Apple is so loose with their client OS registration anyway...

It's not like it's MS we're talking about here.

[MacTripper]

Originally Posted by macxpress

I've used upgrade discs in the past and was able to do an erase and install. To me it acted just like a regular installer DVD. If it really is going to be a pain in the ass...I can get an educational discount so I'll just fork out the money and buy the regular boxed version.

Ok, then perhaps it really wasn't a upgrade disk. It was a full OS X version but discounted for previous OS owners. Perhaps without a box or something. Just thrown in with a new Mac purchase. Taped to the outside of the box is how I got my Panther upgrade disks.

I could boot from the Panther upgrade disks, but couldn't install Panther without first having Jaguar installed if I remember correctly. I wound up having to buy the box version of Panther eventually to get my machine to boot from the disk because the drivers for my video cards were not present on the Jaguar disk.

Then I found out about missing updated drivers for my installed hardware and went the cloning method and never looked back.

So what your trying to figure out is if the upgrade disks are really a full OS X Snow Leopard or not. I don't know and I doubt it.

My advice is to first clone your drive to another hard drive, your going to be spending about $100 or so for a 500GB external, get Carbon Copy Cloner (donationware/free) and clone Leopard that way. Then buy the upgrade disks for Snow Leopard for whatever cheap price and do it that way, get full value for your money.

If you got Tiger, your going to have to buy the full box of Snow Leopard. It won't install, over Tiger. Unless your a hacker or get a crack or something.

Also it looks like iLife will not be updated with the Snow Leopard upgrade disks.

Apple is offering upgrade disks as way for people not to put off hardware purchases until Snow Leopard is released.

IMMO Snow Leopard box set will have updated iLife too.

the confusion is yours to sort, I got a lunch date with a sweet dental hygentist.

bye

[meelash]

Originally Posted by MacTripper

Ok, then perhaps it really wasn't a upgrade disk. It was a full OS X version but discounted for previous OS owners. Perhaps without a box or something. Just thrown in with a new Mac purchase. Taped to the outside of the box is how I got my Panther upgrade disks.

I could boot from the Panther upgrade disks, but couldn't install Panther without first having Jaguar installed if I remember correctly. I wound up having to buy the box version of Panther eventually to get my machine to boot from the disk because the drivers for my video cards were not present on the Jaguar disk.

Then I found out about missing updated drivers for my installed hardware and went the cloning method and never looked back.

So what your trying to figure out is if the upgrade disks are really a full OS X Snow Leopard or not. I don't know and I doubt it.

My advice is to first clone your drive to another hard drive, your going to be spending about $100 or so for a 500GB external, get Carbon Copy Cloner (donationware/free) and clone Leopard that way. Then buy the upgrade disks for Snow Leopard for whatever cheap price and do it that way, get full value for your money.

If you got Tiger, your going to have to buy the full box of Snow Leopard. It won't install, over Tiger. Unless your a hacker or get a crack or something.

Also it looks like iLife will not be updated with the Snow Leopard upgrade disks.

Apple is offering upgrade disks as way for people not to put off hardware purchases until Snow Leopard is released.

IMMO Snow Leopard box set will have updated iLife too.

the confusion is yours to sort, I got a lunch date with a sweet dental hygentist.

bye

This is pure speculation, and the comments about iLife just throw the rest of your comments into even more suspicious light. That is soooo unlikely, c'mon, are you kidding me?

My experience, the way Apple currently treats licensing of client software, and their official comments on stuff like DRM-free music would lead me to think that it will be as painless as possible. Probably just special disks that require either an installed Leopard system or a UPC code to install.

As far as cloned disks are concerned, you have heard of Time Machine right? Available free on every new mac? Why would the general public want to go digging around for freeware cloning software when they've got a more convenient solution right there? I'm not saying it doesn't have uses, but for the general person?

[kim kap sol]

What I don't understand is Apple's claim that Snow Leopard installs 45% faster.

Does it upgrade 45% faster? Because it sure as hell doesn't install 45% faster considering most people will need Leopard as a prerequisite to Snow Leopard. Anyone that wants to do a clean installation will have to go through the Leopard installation and then go through the Snow Leopard upgrade. In other words, most people that ever want to do a clean install will be spending a loooong damn time.

Luckily (I'm sure), you don't have to apply the Leopard updates to upgrade to Snow Leopard.

I don't know why Apple even bothers mentioning the fact that it installs 45% faster. It'll be mostly false for most people and to those that buy the full install version, of course it's going to be a faster install if Snow Leopard doesn't install printer drivers, localizations, and Intel-only versions of apps. Hell, I think the printer drivers and localizations alone explain the 45% faster install.

Apple makes it sound like they've improved the speed of the installation algorithm when in fact they've just cut down on the number of things being installed.

I kinda despise Apple's marketing tactics.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by MacTripper

It's a upgrade disk for Leopard only. And yes it knows the OS your trying to update with.

Yes you will have to reinstall Leopard before using the Snow Leopard upgrade disks if your doing a erase and install method.

I don’t recall Apple ever doing that. They don’t need to add the inconvenience and complexity because you’ve already bought a Mac. Same goes for the serial key.

As I perceived it, the $29 upgrade for Leopard users is set because it’s really just a refinement to Leopard in many ways. For Panther users it’s a completely new OS. I assumed that you’d still be able to wipe your HDD and only use the SL disc without ever touching Leopard again.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by kim kap sol

I don't know why Apple even bothers mentioning the fact that it installs 45% faster. It'll be mostly false for most people and to those that buy the full install version, of course it's going to be a faster install if Snow Leopard doesn't install printer drivers, localizations, and Intel-only versions of apps. Hell, I think the printer drivers and localizations alone explain the 45% faster install.

Apple makes it sound like they've improved the speed of the installation algorithm when in fact they've just cut down on the number of things being installed.

I kinda despise Apple's marketing tactics.

Faster is faster. I don’t see any false advertising there. I also don’t see where they eluded to a better algorithm. They’ve stated that they cut the install disc size down by 50%. That isn’t just printer drivers, but removing erroneous or redundant code from the OS itself.

In fact, it’s about half the size and installs in about half the time. If it were an algorithm the different machine types would vary the installation time, but when you are dealing with just the size of the install they can be fairly accurate with the time difference, regardless of the machine being compared.

[ouragan]

Thanks for the links, and especially the Canadian links, including the French Canada links, but does this means that the Hardware Up-To-Date program is limited to North America?

No links for European countries, Asia or the Middle East?

[macxpress]

Originally Posted by solipsism

I don’t recall Apple ever doing that. They don’t need to add the inconvenience and complexity because you’ve already bought a Mac. Same goes for the serial key.

As I perceived it, the $29 upgrade for Leopard users is set because it’s really just a refinement to Leopard in many ways. For Panther users it’s a completely new OS. I assumed that you’d still be able to wipe your HDD and only use the SL disc without ever touching Leopard again.

I don't recall ever having to do this either. And it says Upgrade right on the disc.

I've always been able to do an erase and install with upgrade discs. Its basically a full blown version.

If Apple is going to require Leopard to be installed then this is going to be a huge mess come September. I always do an erase and install or an archive and install when going to a completely new version. Many other people do too because a lot of the time the upgrade just screws everything up.

[Dr Millmoss]

Originally Posted by SDW2001

This is overkill for the VAST majority of users. People running Leopard now will likely have no problem. For added peace of mind, all one has to do is backup important documents/photos/apps/music (etc) before upgrading.

Agreed. Time Machine being ideal for this.

Don't get me wrong, a clean install is always better. But there is no need to clone and reverse clone and all of that. Just backup, install and then run a permissions repair. You'll be fine.

Now, I think this is overkill too. A straight upgrade is fine for the vast majority of users, and far less likely to cause problems than an Erase and Install or even an Archive and Install (the actual options, "clean install" not being one of them).

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by macxpress

I don't recall ever having to do this either. And it says Upgrade right on the disc.

I've always been able to do an erase and install with upgrade discs. Its basically a full blown version.

If Apple is going to require Leopard to be installed then this is going to be a huge mess come September. I always do an erase and install or an archive and install when going to a completely new version. Many other people do too because a lot of the time the upgrade just screws everything up.

it does sound like boondoggle waiting to happen if they go that route. Perhaps it'll be like that single user install and family 5 install packs that require the honour system to work. That seems more like Apple. Not because they are altrustic, but because you've already purchased a Mac and many people upgrade to the latest OS version right away, unlike with Windows.

[Dr Millmoss]

Originally Posted by solipsism

it does sound like boondoggle waiting to happen if they go that route. Perhaps it'll be like that single user install and family 5 install packs that require the honour system to work. That seems more like Apple. Not because they are altrustic, but because you've already purchased a Mac and many people upgrade to the latest OS version right away, unlike with Windows.

There's a precedent for this -- I believe it was the 10.2 upgrade which checked for a previously installed version of OSX. It proved quite easy to find the file on the upgrade CD which checked for the previous version, remove it, and burn a new install disc. Not saying Apple will try this again, but it's not like they never have before.

[charlituna]

Originally Posted by MacTripper

Always have at least one other hard drive to "option" boot from that contains your snapshot of your original boot drive (including cloning software to reverse clone) before making any drastic changes.

why go all that fuss. you have your install disk that came with the computer and hopefully by now everyone is making external backups.

system crashes and you boot from the DVD, in the utility menu there's even a handy "restore from time machine backup" choice.

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

Are you sure? Why does Apple's tech specs page (www.apple.com/macosx/specs.html) make a distinction between upgrading from Leopard and upgrading from Tiger

because unlike before, you have to have a machine that is running leopard already for the upgrade to work. which means that the reason for the cheap price is that this is just an upgrade. not a full system disk. My guess is that all the apps will already have been updated or can by via software update so the disk is just going to handle the system upgrade part. like a massive version of the updates we normally get to go 10.x.x to 10.x.y.

but if you are on tiger, you need the leopard parts or there's nothing to upgrade. so you are basically buying leopard with the snow leopard tossed in for free (plus the ilife/iwork were are pretty nice suites so what's the harm)

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss

Agreed. Time Machine being ideal for this.

Time Machine is not terribly Tiger-friendly, if have to a clean install.

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by charlituna

but if you are on tiger, you need the leopard parts or there's nothing to upgrade. so you are basically buying leopard with the snow leopard tossed in for free (plus the ilife/iwork were are pretty nice suites so what's the harm)

Agreed. I like the suggestion from Galley above, which is probably the route I'll go: $129 on Amazon. (Plus the Family Pack for the three other machines.)

[MacTripper]

Originally Posted by meelash

As far as cloned disks are concerned, you have heard of Time Machine right? Available free on every new mac? Why would the general public want to go digging around for freeware cloning software when they've got a more convenient solution right there? I'm not saying it doesn't have uses, but for the general person?

Time Machine drive is not 'hold option' boot able, this limits its effectiveness as a boot able backup solution.

In my opinion, TimeMachine is a training wheel solution for newbies mostly. Anyone who can download software and hook up a external hard should be cloning their boot drive instead as it's more reliable, copies everything and can be booted from and used as any other boot drive until they can figure out what the problem is with their main boot drive.

If all else fails and the original boot drive still works mechanically, they could simply reverse clone. No need for some "tech" to be snooping and copying everything on a customers drive neither, a widespread problem in the IT industry.

A example: if over time with updates and all, essential boot drivers for your hardware or firmware updates are no longer valid on the either the Leopard install disk or the Snow Leopard upgrade disks, with only a non-bootable TimeMachine drive your totally fscked with a alternate boot method right?

Yea, you know I'm right. Because Apple has crippled OS X install disks with firmware/driver updates in the past.

Stick the OS X install disk in during a time of trouble to hopefully to "C boot" and run Disk Utility or just to reinstall the OS and nothing happens, the computer doesn't boot and spits out the OS X install disk.

My advice, just clone it and be done with it.

I'll evaluate and possibly change my position when Time Machine has a boot able option and reverse cloning capability. Until then, in my opinion, it's good for newbies mostly, better than nothing, but not better than cloning.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by MacTripper

Time Machine drive is not 'hold option' boot able, this limits its effectiveness as a boot able backup solution.

It certainly does, but with Snow Leopard there is a way to make your external drive a bootable Snow Leopard drive. This does require the creation of a separate partition on the external drive, which you could have done before SL, but SL has made it quite simple to install from any partition to any other partition. I use this method with my TimeMachine drive specifically so I can resolve any issues that may arise, without the need for another Mac for Target Disk Mode. I suggest this solution for all who can spare 4GB on their external drive.

[charlituna]

Originally Posted by solipsism

For Panther users it’s a completely new OS. I assumed that you’d still be able to wipe your HDD and only use the SL disc without ever touching Leopard again.

I would not make that assumption. it is possible you will be disappointed. unless you go the 'tiger' route and buy a full disk. which if you haven't gotten the other software might actually be worth it. I think that pack is going to be $169 for a single user and ilife and iwork singles are like $80 a piece. so . . .

by the by, I noticed you said Panther. As I recall, all intel computers were at least tiger when sold. if someone is using Panther, that's likely PPC and thus all this is moot cause SL is intel only.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by charlituna

I would not make that assumption. it is possible you will be disappointed. unless you go the 'tiger' route and buy a full disk. which if you haven't gotten the other software might actually be worth it. I think that pack is going to be $169 for a single user and ilife and iwork singles are like $80 a piece. so . . .

by the by, I noticed you said Panther. As I recall, all intel computers were at least tiger when sold. if someone is using Panther, that's likely PPC and thus all this is moot cause SL is intel only.

I did mean Tiger. I still find it hard that Apple will make the cheap SL require an install of Leopard to work. Seems like a lot of fuss for no gain.

[bobmarleypeople]

I wish they'd hurry up and tell us what the UK pricing is for a Snow Leopard upgrade. Some of us don't work in dollars (though if the exchange rate continues to rise like this, I may end up importing it cheaper than buying here).

[8CoreWhore]

Pure speculation here, but::: I wonder if Apple will do things a little different from now on - not just because it's an "under the hood update" - but because of challenges from the likes of Psystar, etc. It remains to be seen what the exact procedure will be, but I suspect Apple is tempted to make clones less affordable, and more difficult. For us regular users, it's no big deal putting in the new OS, it looking for the presence of the previous version, and then giving us a menu of install options including "Erase and install". If Psystar has to do that first, they are dead. Also, the licensor, Apple, has a right to request the license for the previous version, so Psystar couldn't get around it. Imagine hackintosh users trying to do this.. could be much more difficult as well.

[macxpress]

Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss

There's a precedent for this -- I believe it was the 10.2 upgrade which checked for a previously installed version of OSX. It proved quite easy to find the file on the upgrade CD which checked for the previous version, remove it, and burn a new install disc. Not saying Apple will try this again, but it's not like they never have before.

The end user shouldn't have to do this. If Apple wanted to really make some noise with this upgrade they should make it a set low price for everyone. I have a feeling there is going to be some mass confusion and disappointment come September.

[macxpress]

Originally Posted by 8CoreWhore

Pure speculation here, but::: I wonder if Apple will do things a little different from now on - not just because it's an "under the hood update" - but because of challenges from the likes of Psystar, etc. It remains to be seen what the exact procedure will be, but I suspect Apple is tempted to make clones less affordable, and more difficult. For us regular users, it's no big deal putting in the new OS, it looking for the presence of the previous version, and then giving us a menu of install options including "Erase and install". If Psystar has to do that first, they are dead. Also, the licensor, Apple, has a right to request the license for the previous version, so Psystar couldn't get around it. Imagine hackintosh users trying to do this.. could be much more difficult as well.

That could be true, but its unfortunate every honest user has to suffer because of these clowns...

[al_bundy]

Originally Posted by 8CoreWhore

Pure speculation here, but::: I wonder if Apple will do things a little different from now on - not just because it's an "under the hood update" - but because of challenges from the likes of Psystar, etc. It remains to be seen what the exact procedure will be, but I suspect Apple is tempted to make clones less affordable, and more difficult. For us regular users, it's no big deal putting in the new OS, it looking for the presence of the previous version, and then giving us a menu of install options including "Erase and install". If Psystar has to do that first, they are dead. Also, the licensor, Apple, has a right to request the license for the previous version, so Psystar couldn't get around it. Imagine hackintosh users trying to do this.. could be much more difficult as well.

the hackintoshes are such a tiny niche i doubt apple cares or wants to invest the resources to make things harder for it's users.

with TPM in the BIOS it might be easier for them to just sign the OS digitally and tie it to the BIOS

[Dr Millmoss]

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

Time Machine is not terribly Tiger-friendly, if have to a clean install.

Good point, but "clean installs" are almost never necessary, and once you're at Leopard level, Time Machine is a great way to go.

The advice for cloning, I just don't understand. In fact I don't see any reason for it at all.

Originally Posted by macxpress

The end user shouldn't have to do this. If Apple wanted to really make some noise with this upgrade they should make it a set low price for everyone. I have a feeling there is going to be some mass confusion and disappointment come September.

I agree, but I was only saying that there's a precedent for Apple putting a previous version check into the installer. It may not be very "Apple like," but they have done it.

[macxpress]

Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss

Good point, but "clean installs" are almost never necessary, and once you're at Leopard level, Time Machine is a great way to go.

The advice for cloning, I just don't understand. In fact I don't see any reason for it at all.

I will do an erase and install and then use Time Machine to restore my home folder stuff back in (not the actual folder). I always like to do an erase and install because I know I will have less issues.

Typically when you see people having weird issues after doing just an "upgrade" its because they did just an upgrade. You wait and watch..happens every single release.

[macxpress]

Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss

Good point, but "clean installs" are almost never necessary, and once you're at Leopard level, Time Machine is a great way to go.

The advice for cloning, I just don't understand. In fact I don't see any reason for it at all.



I agree, but I was only saying that there's a precedent for Apple putting a previous version check into the installer. It may not be very "Apple like," but they have done it.

Yeah I know you could do something similar to make Leopard install on a Mac that had a G4 slower than 867 MHz. Its just a matter of extracting the correct file from the Leopard DVD, changing some settings so it looks for a slow frequency G4 and then save the file, put the file back where its supposed to be and re-burn the DVD. Its definitely possible and if Apple goes ahead with something silly like this there will be some geekery going on. Yes..I just made the word geekery up!

[Dr Millmoss]

Originally Posted by macxpress

I will do an erase and install and then use Time Machine to restore my home folder stuff back in (not the actual folder). I always like to do an erase and install because I know I will have less issues.

Typically when you see people having weird issues after doing just an "upgrade" its because they did just an upgrade. You wait and watch..happens every single release.

Very rarely. Extremely rarely in fact, if you think at all in terms of the millions of people doing them. I've been doing upgrades literally for years, going all the way back to 10.1 -- with never one issue. Not one.

Erase and Installs are not only a waste of time, I am convinced, they are also dangerous, especially to novice users. The Erase and Install fans will never tell you about the pitfalls, of which there are many.