Hackers crack Apple's iTunes gift card algorithm

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by solipsism

I think you need to have a CC out of the UK. I think people buy iTunes Gift Cards from other countries on eBay in order to get credits for those stores media. But I'm not the one to ask as I've never tried to buy outside the US.

Too bad Apple doesn't make iTunes cards available in other denominations for this very purpose. Imagine how much more they could be selling? Thanks for the info.

[djames42]

Originally Posted by solipsism

I think you need to have a CC out of the UK. I think people buy iTunes Gift Cards from other countries on eBay in order to get credits for those stores media. But I'm not the one to ask as I've never tried to buy outside the US.

That's correct. If you want an account tied to a CC, the billing address for that CC has to be local to the store's country. Pre-paid cards work around that restriction by not requiring a verifiable payment address (you do have to register an address in the store's country, but you could look up Harrod's address in London and use that if you want. Maybe use the Queen's address at Buckingham?)

[GQB]

Originally Posted by Dogcow

You're right because nothing like that would ever happen in America.

If an American hacker found the algorithm he would sell it to a shady business person who would then generate thousands of codes and create a ponzi scheme of iTunes digital codes and it would all be great until apple flipped the switch and the whole thing came crashing down bringing with it the insurance companies who were insuring bogus iTunes codes.

Ok maybe I'm exaggerating (a little).

Sorry, but I work for a major software developer, and issues with China blow away all others. The difference is that China makes no effort to discourage this kind of theft.

[GQB]

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

Ironically, in this era, this is the type of hacking that is needed to keep improving security. In a system driven by self-interest (even the enlightened variety), it is naive to expect that relying on a sense of fairplay and trust alone is sufficient.

One also needs the appropriate systems of verification.

Oh stop it with the 'we need burglars to show us how weak our locks are' justification for theft.

[wcg66]

Ok enough about the moral issues and let us know if this works! Although I don't condone this in anyway, YMMV, yada yada....

[freelander51]

Originally Posted by djames42

Again, this is a non-issue. I have DRMed tracks from both US+Japan stores on my iPod.

Doing it myself for ages. Just sync manually. Works a treat on all BUT an iPhone.

[djames42]

FYI, another advantage of having a valid account on other region's stores is the free music available every Tuesday

[MsNly]

Originally Posted by solipsism

I don't think that has changed.

It hasn't.

[warpdag]

Originally Posted by solipsism

I don't think that has changed.

Very smart...

[JakeTheRock]

Originally Posted by Bageljoey

I wonder if anyone has access to what Europe thought of Americans up to the mid 1800 (just to pick a date). I seem to recall reading about how Amaricans were considered immoral ruffians and hooligans who couldn't be trusted.

We still are, for the most part..

[lamewing]

Originally Posted by djames42

Buying gift cards from out of the country is a great way of accessing other country's stores. I buy gift cards from Japan (through jbox) so that I can purchase J-Pop music from their store, even though I live in the US (I have a US account with one email address, and a Japan account with another).

Unfortunately, I suspect that one of the side effects of this scam is that Apple may now actively restrict access to stores to IP addresses local to that store's country. I'd better start downloading, as I've got about ¥7000 in my account right now!

That is my fear as well. I have about 10000 yen I need to burn before Apple lays down the law. What is worse is that I will not be able to purchase any more Jpop if this happens. That would mean going back to yesasia and such. Grrrr. Why can't people just be honest instead of ruining things for the rest of us?

[lamewing]

Originally Posted by solipsism

Switch IDs to buy music from various stores. Make sure you buy DRM free tracks or remvoe the DRM from one of many ways after you buy it. Sync to iPod.

FUD. I buy DRMed files from the U.S. store and the Japanese store using two accounts and they both are accepted by my iPods with no problem.

[TBell]

Yes, except in America is would have a far less chance of succeeding because our law enforcement would track the financial transaction very fast. In China not so much.

Originally Posted by Dogcow

You're right because nothing like that would ever happen in America.

If an American hacker found the algorithm he would sell it to a shady business person who would then generate thousands of codes and create a ponzi scheme of iTunes digital codes and it would all be great until apple flipped the switch and the whole thing came crashing down bringing with it the insurance companies who were insuring bogus iTunes codes.

Ok maybe I'm exaggerating (a little).

[TBell]

It is really sad the US allows US Companies to do business with China and reap a tax benefit nonetheless. Sure, the labor is cheaper, however, that labor is cheaper because the workers have very little voice. You can't support American virtues (e.g. human rights) while buying Chinese products at the same time. So called Free Trade should only be done with Countries that respect Human life.

Originally Posted by GQB

Sorry, but I work for a major software developer, and issues with China blow away all others. The difference is that China makes no effort to discourage this kind of theft.

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by TBell

It is really sad the US allows US Companies to do business with China and reap a tax benefit nonetheless. Sure, the labor is cheaper, however, that labor is cheaper because the workers have very little voice. You can't support American virtues (e.g. human rights) while buying Chinese products at the same time. So called Free Trade should only be done with Countries that respect Human life.

Well Apple does and you surely support that by buying Apple products.

[justflybob]

It's about time Apple went public with this problem.

I'm also wondering if this group is the same that hacked into my iTunes account and spewed out a real $200 iTunes gift card?

Apple was all over it and did right by me. The banks, etc. where I had to change everything were not only not nice, but plain old jackasses. Several lost my business that very same day.

Yeah, so it is a bit of a weird dynamic with China when you lay out all issues.

[aplnub]

Originally Posted by solipsism

Devils advocate: What does that say about the other countries and companies that have no problems striking up deals for cheap materials and labour from China? And to a lesser a extent, those that buy the products knowing where they were produced. Are we not just supporting this corrupt system, making it more powerful while inadvertently justifying its actions?

Double Devils advocate: You have a good argument to be made, but the difference is Apple is making a deal for cheap material and labor in China. They are not forcing people into an agreement nor holding them hostage to do so. The government may be doing all that and what does that say about their government. In exchange, China gets the know how to manufacture such devices and relies heavily upon the American economy. We sink our economic machine and they go down with us. Maybe better than winning through war.

Agreement: We are supporting the corrupt system, making it larger. No doubt. I would put my money where it matters and buy from the not-made-in-China side of the Apple store if there were such a thing.

I have always thought computer tech should be a controlled export product anyways. Never know why you would give your enemy an 8 core Mac! I could give them Windows, but not OS X.

[amerist]

Originally Posted by kresh

Apple should implement a PIN system for the gift cards. When the card is purchased, the retailer has to activate the card and as part of the activation system Apple would provide a PIN for that card number.

This way Apple could rotate the algorithm for the PIN on a weekly, or daily basis, without invalidating all the cards in the retail pipeline (In the future - wouldn't help now of course).

I imagine that every card code that is sold is processed with a unique generator or retailer ID and that if Apple decided that it was going to invalidate cards, they could choose to invalidate only certain ones, the same way that Microsoft invalidated a number of different product IDs that were created by installing XP with the infamous FCKGW volume license key.

[lonuser]

Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2

I always wonder (bigger picture wise), how on earth that many people will eventually be integrated into "world society" when they have such low regard for law or morality. I mean we will all be one people some day, but how that's going to work with China has always mystified me.

Excellent analysis for a space cadet. I'd say Guantanamo is a great example of "regard for law or morality". We can argue forever but at the end of the day no country is perfect. If you don't like a country then don't buy anything from it. But seeing as you want your computing needs at such a cheap price so you can afford other luxuries you should quit your complaining.

P.S I'd like to thank the USA for the credit crunch and for dragging us into this recession.

[ArthurAscii]

Originally Posted by Bageljoey

I wonder if anyone has access to what Europe thought of Americans up to the mid 1800 (just to pick a date).

I seem to recall reading about how Amaricans were considered immoral ruffians and hooligans who couldn't be trusted. Sure there was a lot of money to be made here, but our monitary system was a mess. The west was largly lawless. Slavery was rampant and accepted in the south.

Consider, for example, the US' non-recognition of international copyright before 1896. US publishers simply reprinted the likes of Charles Dickens without paying a cent. In part, this was down to the difficulties of establishing and enforcing international law - something the US is still more sceptical than Europe about at diplomatic level. Similarly, many Chinese think that their country has a grace period In which to catch up with other advanced economies, and that copyrights are a restraint on their right to develop. But the real point is that international agreement on these things is slow and difficult to achieve.

The other point is that opinion across the whole of Europe, US and China, now or in the 1800s, is neither monolithic nor measurable so your opening question needs to be answered with a resounding 'No'.

[ikir]

I would not buy these, i have a morality and i want to support artists and iTunes.

I don't see how this could be a good news for you.

[ivan.rnn01]

how much did they invest in getting that done? Oh, young passionate keyboard guys...

[wwwsq]

Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2

I always wonder (bigger picture wise), how on earth that many people will eventually be integrated into "world society" when they have such low regard for law or morality. I mean we will all be one people some day, but how that's going to work with China has always mystified me.

Say what you will about other countries and peoples, but Chinese culture seems to have a rampant moral blindness. Even the most radical Islamic terrorist actually do what they do because they thinks it's "right" and moral to do so.

It seems like the whole of Chinese culture is based just on mercantile interests sometimes. Communist in name, Capitalist in outlook, ends up being Fascist in practice IMO. Rush Limbaugh and Co. would be right at home there.

And no, ... not a racist, lots of Chinese friends etc. (who mostly agree with this).

I am Chinese. Let me say that: say bad words behind someone is not so good.
To judge if someone is moral depends on how you define 'moral'.

You western invent electricity that's good, but you also bring two world wars and atomic bomb which would kill all human race.
China invent paper, printing, compass. Nothing harmful to the world.

So, what's moral?

[aplnub]

Originally Posted by wwwsq

I am Chinese. Let me say that: say bad words behind someone is not so good.
To judge if someone is moral depends on how you define 'moral'.

You western invent electricity that's good, but you also bring two world wars and atomic bomb which would kill all human race.
China invent paper, printing, compass. Nothing harmful to the world.

So, what's moral?

Fireworks?? The first ballistic missiles ever! Seriously, I think you missed his point.

[motoservo]

China's disregard for intellectual property is why my computer still says "Designed in the USA and assembled in China".

Their system promotes emulation instead of innovation.

Without developing a culture of creativity into the fabric of modern China, they won't have anything significant to offer the world (other than cheap labor) for a long time.

[tonton]

Originally Posted by wwwsq

I am Chinese. Let me say that: say bad words behind someone is not so good.
To judge if someone is moral depends on how you define 'moral'.

You western invent electricity that's good, but you also bring two world wars and atomic bomb which would kill all human race.
China invent paper, printing, compass. Nothing harmful to the world.

So, what's moral?

China invented gunpowder and were also the first to use it as a weapon.

But aside from that, does mass theft of intellectual property not do any harm to the world? If you say no, it doesn't, then this, sir is a prime example of the differences in morals that we are talking about here.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Originally Posted by GQB

So how does Apple fix this without breaking existing legit Gift Cards

Perhaps the algorithm used for physical gift cards is different than for gift card codes that are generated from within iTunes (which are then emailed?)

Also... if you go to iTunes and choose "Buy iTunes Gifts", you can now only email and print gift certificates up to $50 in value. You could previously buy them in larger denominations, like $75, $100 or $200. Could this change be related to the wide-spread news about the hacked $200 codes? Are attempts to redeem codes for values over $50 now being rejected?

If you ever looked at any of the eBay auctions for "cheap iTunes gift cards", a lot of them would have verbiage about "must be redeemed within 12 hours". Why would their "cracked" codes expire in such a short amount of time?

Definitely an interesting situation.

[wwwsq]

Originally Posted by tonton

China invented gunpowder and were also the first to use it as a weapon.

But aside from that, does mass theft of intellectual property not do any harm to the world? If you say no, it doesn't, then this, sir is a prime example of the differences in morals that we are talking about here.

Gunpowder can not kill all human race. Atomic bombs can.

Intellectual property protection is one side of the fact, the knowledge sharing is another.
Shall we ask you for the license fee of paper and gunpowder?
OK, you can say that's too far, that's too old.
If one invention can be protected for 50 years, why not 1000 years, why not 10000 years?

Chinese technology was dropped behind in the past hundreds year, it's our fault, now we have to learn from you. Just like many year ago, China brings good inventions to the world.

China should pay cost to get the modern technologies. But there should be a balance.
Cheap labor means working hard with low payment, it's part of the cost. (Do you want to be a cheap labor?)

In this specific case, Apple was hurt. Apple can negotiate or go to court. That's OK.
It's nothing to do with the moral of a whole country.

[Canada, eh?]

Originally Posted by wwwsq

Gunpowder can not kill all human race. Atomic bombs can.

Intellectual property protection is one side of the fact, the knowledge sharing is another.
Shall we ask you for the license fee of paper and gunpowder?
OK, you can say that's too far, that's too old.
If one invention can be protected for 50 years, why not 1000 years, why not 10000 years?

Chinese technology was dropped behind in the past hundreds year, it's our fault, now we have to learn from you. Just like many year ago, China brings good inventions to the world.

China should pay cost to get the modern technologies. But there should be a balance.
Cheap labor means working hard with low payment, it's part of the cost. (Do you want to be a cheap labor?)

In this specific case, Apple was hurt. Apple can negotiate or go to court. That's OK.
It's nothing to do with the moral of a whole country.

I am Chinese as well. But I hold a slightly different opinion than you.

You cannot morally justify this hack simply because Chinese inventions were copied in the past. If you review Chinese history, you will find that it did everything in its power to prevent the flow of its invention out of the country. People were executed for attempting to smuggle silkworms in order to protect the silk trade. Porcelain production was concentrated in guarded cities to prevent the technique from spreading (Which force the Germans & the Dutch to invent it themselves.) So, the reaction of the US to the wanton copying of its IP should not be a surprise. Nor is it out of line with historical precedents.

As to the accusation that Chinese lack a moral code, that could not be more wrong. Chinese culture is heavily based on Confucius, one of the great philosophers and moral teachers in world history. Chinese culture is also heavily based upon concepts of honor, duty and loyalty. What you see now in the PRC is a breakdown of these values due to the concerted effort the Communist Party. Through events such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, the Party systemically destroyed the traditional moral code and replaced it with its ersatz one (Cult of Mao, manipulation of nationalism, etc.) Add to this toxic mix rampant corruption and the lack of rule of law (China historically is a country that abides by the concept of rule of man.), you get the wild wild west you see where individual profit trumps all moral and societal concerns. If you want proof that Chinese culture is moral, take a look at rural China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, & Singapore. The last three are well-run, modern states/administrative regions where rule of law is respected with entrenched Chinese communities. And in rural China, you will find a place where good people are trying to live a good, simple life.

[wwwsq]

Originally Posted by Canada, eh?

I am Chinese as well. But I hold a slightly different opinion than you.

You cannot morally justify this hack simply because Chinese inventions were copied in the past. If you review Chinese history, you will find that it did everything in its power to prevent the flow of its invention out of the country. People were executed for attempting to smuggle silkworms in order to protect the silk trade. Porcelain production was concentrated in guarded cities to prevent the technique from spreading (Which force the Germans & the Dutch to invent it themselves.) So, the reaction of the US to the wanton copying of its IP should not be a surprise. Nor is it out of line with historical precedents.

As to the accusation that Chinese lack a moral code, that could not be more wrong. Chinese culture is heavily based on Confucius, one of the great philosophers and moral teachers in world history. Chinese culture is also heavily based upon concepts of honor, duty and loyalty. What you see now in the PRC is a breakdown of these values due to the concerted effort the Communist Party. Through events such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, the Party systemically destroyed the traditional moral code and replaced it with its ersatz one (Cult of Mao, manipulation of nationalism, etc.) Add to this toxic mix rampant corruption and the lack of rule of law (China historically is a country that abides by the concept of rule of man.), you get the wild wild west you see where individual profit trumps all moral and societal concerns. If you want proof that Chinese culture is moral, take a look at rural China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, & Singapore. The last three are well-run, modern states/administrative regions where rule of law is respected with entrenched Chinese communities. And in rural China, you will find a place where good people are trying to live a good, simple life.

I did not morally justify this hack. Someone else morally justified. And someone expand his moral justification to a whole country.
I suggest Apple to negotiate or go to court.

PS: In this case, I think the hacker cracks for the money is not good.

[prnoct90]

Looks like someone pulled the plug. I can't find anymore of these auctions on Taobao. ?

[charlituna]

Originally Posted by kresh

Apple should implement a PIN system for the gift cards. When the card is purchased, the retailer has to activate the card and as part of the activation system Apple would provide a PIN for that card number.

there already is an activation system. apple can, and probably has, set up a search program that can run a card code and see if there is a retail activation. this could be how they are cutting off accounts that are using fake cards. which sucks for the peeps doing it on the idiot defense cause they will lose all their DRM stuff.

moral of the story. if you have such a fake card, use it with a fresh account and only on DRM free music.

[theappman]

Originally Posted by prnoct90

Looks like someone pulled the plug. I can't find anymore of these auctions on Taobao. ?

Hi guys I have a few genuine vouchers, I got from my work. I want to sell them, asap.

I will sell them for cheap price!

I have a £200 and £100 UK store itune.

Make me an offer