The New G5 PowerMacs

[Gavriel]

Both the American, English and Swedish Apple Stores have displayed graphics showing the specs of the new PowerMacs. Dual 2.5 GHz G5 processors with liquid cooling and 8x Superdrives. All the mentioned stores are down at the moment.

[MacsRGood4U]

Every Model Features Dual 64-bit Processors

CUPERTINO, Calif., June 9 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Apple(R) today
unveiled its new Power Mac(R) G5 desktop line with every model featuring dual
64-bit PowerPC G5 processors. The top model, featuring two 2.5 GHz processors,
the industry's fastest front-side bus running at 1.25 GHz per processor, and
advanced liquid cooling starts at $2,999. The entry model, featuring dual 1.8
GHz processors, starts at just $1,999.
"Our professional customers, across many creative and scientific markets,
have been impressed with the extraordinary performance of the dual processor
Power Mac G5 running Apple's Unix-based Mac OS X," said Philip Schiller,
Apple's senior vice president of Worldwide Product Marketing. "This new Power
Mac G5 line has dual processors in every model to deliver even higher
performance for our pro customers who need it."
Powered by the PowerPC G5 processor, the Power Mac G5 utilizes 64-bit
processing technology for memory expansion up to 8GB, and advanced 64-bit
computation while running existing 32-bit applications natively. The top of
the line Power Mac G5 now offers dual 2.5 GHz PowerPC G5 processors, each with
an independent 1.25 GHz front-side bus for an astounding bandwidth of up to
20 GBps. All Power Mac G5 systems ship with Mac OS(R) X version 10.3
"Panther," which in combination with the Power Mac G5 provides creative
professionals and scientists with computational power never before realized on
a desktop system.
The Power Mac G5 outperforms competing desktops on the market today and
ran significantly faster than 3.4 GHz Pentium 4 systems on performance tests
of the most popular applications for creative professionals and scientists,
including:

-- On a test of 45 commonly used actions, Adobe Photoshop ran almost twice
as fast on a dual 2.5 GHz Power Mac G5 than on a 3.4 GHz Pentium
4-based PC;
-- Logic Pro 6 on the dual 2.5 GHz Power Mac G5 played up to 138 more
tracks with reverbs (over four times more) than with Cubase SX on a 3.4
GHz Pentium 4-based PC; and
-- Final Cut Pro(R) HD running on a 2.5 GHz Power Mac G5 can run eight
streams of 8-bit SD video versus five streams on a dual 3.06 GHz
Xeon-based Avid workstation.

The Power Mac G5 line offers leading-edge expansion with dual 1.5 Gbps
serial ATA interfaces, the industry's fastest PCI-X interface technology and
AGP 8X Pro graphics. The Power Mac G5 comes standard with either the NVIDIA
GeForceFX 5200 Ultra or the ATI Radeon 9600 XT graphics card; the ATI Radeon
9800 XT high-performance graphics card is available as a build-to-order option
for incredible 3D design, visualization and gaming. All Power Mac G5 desktops
deliver industry-leading connectivity and high-performance I/O, including
Gigabit Ethernet, FireWire(R) 800 and FireWire 400 ports, three USB 2.0 ports,
optical digital audio input and output, built-in support for 54 Mbps
AirPort(R) Extreme wireless networking and an optional Bluetooth module.

Pricing & Availability
The dual 1.8 GHz and dual 2.0 GHz Power Mac G5 models are available now,
and the dual 2.5 GHz Power Mac G5 model is expected to be available in July
through the Apple Store(R) (http://www.apple.com), at Apple's retail stores and Apple
Authorized Resellers. The single 1.25 GHz Power Mac G4, with suggested retail
price of $1,299 (US), will no longer be in production and is available for
purchase while supplies last through the Apple Store (http://www.apple.com), at
Apple's retail stores and Apple Authorized Resellers.

The Power Mac G5, with a suggested retail price of $1,999 (US), includes:
-- Dual 1.8 GHz 64-bit PowerPC G5;
-- 256MB 400 MHz 128-bit DDR SDRAM (4GB maximum);
-- 80GB Serial ATA 7200 rpm hard drive;
-- AGP 8X Pro graphics slot;
-- NVIDIA GeForceFX 5200 Ultra with 64MB DDR SDRAM;
-- 3 PCI slots (64-bit, 33 MHz); and
-- 8x SuperDrive(TM) (DVD-R/CD-RW).

The Power Mac G5, with a suggested retail price of $2,499 (US), includes:
-- Dual 2.0 GHz 64-bit PowerPC G5;
-- 512MB 400 MHz 128-bit DDR SDRAM (8GB maximum);
-- 160GB Serial ATA 7200 rpm hard drive;
-- AGP 8X Pro graphics slot;
-- NVIDIA GeForceFX 5200 Ultra with 64MB DDR SDRAM;
-- 3 PCI-X slots (one 64-bit 133 MHz, two 64-bit 100 MHz); and
--8x SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW).

The Power Mac G5, with a suggested retail price of $2,999 (US), includes:
-- Dual 2.5 GHz 64-bit PowerPC G5;
-- 512MB 400 MHz 128-bit DDR SDRAM (8GB maximum);
-- 160GB Serial ATA 7200 rpm hard drive;
-- AGP 8X Pro graphics slot;
-- ATI RADEON 9600 XT with 128MB DDR SDRAM;
-- 3 PCI-X slots (one 64-bit 133 MHz, two 64-bit 100 MHz); and
-- 8x SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW).

All Power Mac G5 systems ship with iChat AV, Safari(TM), Sherlock(R),
Address Book, QuickTime(R), iLife(R) (includes iTunes(R), iPhoto(TM),
iMovie(R), iDVD(TM) and GarageBand(TM)), iSync, iCal(R), DVD Player, Classic
environment, Art Directors Toolkit X, EarthLink Total Access 2004,
GraphicConverter, Microsoft Internet Explorer, OmniGraffle, OmniOutliner,
QuickBooks for Mac New User Edition, Xcode and Zinio Reader.
Build-to-order options include up to 8GB of RAM, 250GB Serial ATA hard
drives, Combo (DVD-ROM/CD-RW) drive, graphics cards (NVIDIA GeForceFX 5200
Ultra, ATI Radeon 9600 XT, ATI Radeon 9800 XT), AirPort Extreme Card,
Bluetooth module, Apple Wireless Keyboard and Apple Wireless Mouse, PCI-X
Gigabit Ethernet Card, Apple Fibre Channel PCI Card and Mac OS X Server
version 10.3 "Panther."
Apple ignited the personal computer revolution in the 1970s with the Apple
II and reinvented the personal computer in the 1980s with the Macintosh. Apple
is committed to bringing the best personal computing experience to students,
educators, creative professionals and consumers around the world through its
innovative hardware, software and Internet offerings.

NOTE: Apple, the Apple logo, Macintosh, Mac, Mac OS, Power Mac, Final Cut
Pro, FireWire, AirPort, Apple Store, SuperDrive, Safari, Sherlock, QuickTime,
iLife, iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, GarageBand and iCal are either registered
trademarks or trademarks of Apple. Other company and product names may be
trademarks of their respective owners.

[MacsRGood4U]

Well, this leaves new-form iMacs and new Displays for WWDC plus the usual surprise!

P.S. So Apple missed the 3 GHZ mark "this summer" by .5 (well IBM did actually). So sue them!

[iDunno]

What were the prices (US) before these revisions? Are they the same price, cheaper, or more expensive?

Les.

[Concord]

The refresh went just as I expected... since they didn't update in Feb/Mar you knew they weren't going to hit 3.0 by the summer. Liquid cooling for the top end machine is somewhat surprising, I'm wondering if there are some underlying heat issues there...

All in all though, a worthy upgrade - if not a surprising one.


C.

[msantti]

A very weak upgrade.

Hell, the videocard in my Dual 2 GHZ is better than the one in the "New" dual 2 GHZ.

Whats up with that?

Well, it is 500 bucks less now.

The dual 1.8 got downgraded with just PCI now.

Whats up with that?

Well, it is 500 bucks less now.

Cheaper prices but no new bang.

*Hugs "old" dual 2 GHZ G5*

[The Placid Casual]

The new Dial 1.8 has the 1.6 board...!

4 Gig RAM max and PCI!!

A shambles.

[durandal]

Why the heck does Apple still sell the low-end model with only 256MB RAM??? This is simply ridiculous...

[hmurchison]

Let's be honest a bit here.

@ $2000 the Dual 1.8Ghz isn't bad. PCI-X doesn't really mean anything unless you have a lot of bus contention. It's more for bragging. 4GB of RAM is pretty damn expensive again 8GB sound great but you know 98% of the people won't hit 8GB.

I just would have rather seen a 2.2Ghz model as the middle PM. And better graphic card choices. Apple is not going to want to keep these current configurations any longer than a month. Componentwise they are weaker than past updates(256MB RAM and 80GB HD on the low end...not too hot).

[iDunno]

Well it's good to see with the revisions that the price of a g5 in Australia is still really damn expensive.

The price for the new dual 2.5 in Australia is $AU5300. In the us it is $US2999. Taking in roughly todays conversion rate $5300 is equal to $$US3710. Now is anyone even going to try and tell me that we are being charged $US710 in shipping and Taxes?

Les.

[naderby]

DO we know what version of the G5 chip it uses?

[Jamil]

Originally posted by naderby
DO we know what version of the G5 chip it uses?

it's the 970fx.

[job]

Interesting tidbit on the 9800XT:

Special note on the ATI Radeon 9800 XT: due to size of this advanced graphics card, the adjacent PCI or PCI-X slot will be blocked and cannot be used. This reduces the number of available PCI or PCI-X slots from three to two.

[BrunoBruin]

I just put in an order with my campus computer store for two 2.5GHz models. Should be a nice bump from dual-867 G4 Power Macs!

[jasenj1]

Originally posted by naderby
DO we know what version of the G5 chip it uses?

According to the new G5 white paper on Apple's site, they are 90nm chips.

IMHO, this is the update that should have happened in the Spring. Liquid cooling is nifty, but otherwise an uninteresting upgrade.

Sorry, but I buy machines with an eye to how useful they will be in 2 yrs. IMHO, AGP is on the way out and PCI-Express will be entrenched in that time frame. Kudos to all of you who bought 2GHz PMacs when they were released; looks like you're still near the top of Apple's heap.

- Jasen.

[job]

I think this is the update that we were all expecting earlier this year.

Since I'm a student, a dual 1.8Ghz at $1799 (with the education discount) is fanstastic.

Like someone else said, you really don't need PCI-X. And honestly, how many people are going to put four 1GB sticks of RAM in their tower?

I am very glad to see the 9600 finally get 128MB of VRAM.

[AsLan^]

Originally posted by les t
Now is anyone even going to try and tell me that we are being charged $US710 in shipping and Taxes?

Les.

Yes, I sent my mum (who lives in australia) an ibook from the states, as a gift, she had to pay about A$ 200 to pick it up ! blame the howard government.

and dont even get me started on ten bucks for a pack of smokes !

[Big Mac]

We really should have expected this one, folks. As others have been saying, the fact that the Jan-Feb bump was missed should have been taken as a harbinger, even before Apple warned of chip constraints. The second significant revelation came in the billing of WWDC, which refers only to Tiger and to nothing extraordinary. Unfortunately, Apple even missed Think Secrets 2.6GHz mark (although, who's going to complain about .1GHz?). When I read AtAT's coverage of the latest rumors, I was at first surprised they indicated the bumps would be premiered prior to WWDC, but now it all makes sense. Apple couldn't reach 3GHz - or possibly it simply didn't want to in the span of one speed bump - so it had to release pre-show in order to not substantially disappoint us. I had a feeling PCI-X wouldn't be replaced by Express in one revision - Apple never changes the motherboard considerably after only one release.

[kenaustus]

This is probably the update that Apple had planned for Feb/Mar - before the 90 nm fab problems were encountered at IBM's plant. The first thing, therefore, is to judge it based on it being a February announcement and March delivery.

It's a major release, moves the G5 to the 90 nm process and will make a lot of users very happy. More to come, but today is a pretty good day for Apple. Hell, with the AE yesterday, the 90 nm G5 PM today and Lord knows what in the next 20 days this is a great month for Apple.

Enjoy!

[Mr. MacPhisto]

Originally posted by les t
Well it's good to see with the revisions that the price of a g5 in Australia is still really damn expensive.

The price for the new dual 2.5 in Australia is $AU5300. In the us it is $US2999. Taking in roughly todays conversion rate $5300 is equal to $$US3710. Now is anyone even going to try and tell me that we are being charged $US710 in shipping and Taxes?

Les.

Can't really blame Apple for any taxes and/or tariffs that they get hit with when they're selling they're product outside of the US. I always get a kick out of Europeans who complain about Apple's high(er) prices over there and seem to expect Apple to sell their machines in such a way that the 17% VAT (in some places) would bring the price in line with US prices - so they expect Apple to eat the shipping and the tax.

As for the updates, I'm not too terribly impress and feel that this update is really only temporary, lasting only through September. It should have happened back a few months ago, but IBM's 90nm problems forced a postponement. I think I'll wait until the next update. Hopefully Apple's rumored abandonment of ADC will lead to better video card options.

[Jamil]

No 3 gig anytime soon!!!

Maccentral is reporting Tom Boger, Apple's Director of Power Mac Product Marketing, mentioned because of challenges with the 90 nanometer manufacturing process. no 3 gig PM anytime soon.

I hope this is just flak being thrown to ward off the rumors.

[BuonRotto]

Originally posted by Mr. MacPhisto
As for the updates, I'm not too terribly impress and feel that this update is really only temporary, lasting only through September. It should have happened back a few months ago, but IBM's 90nm problems forced a postponement.

That's right. There's a reason why this slipped out with only a press release and not with more fanfare. IBM got choked up there with everyone else transitioning to 90nm, and now that it's been overcome to this extent and assumably that plans have changed to accomodate this newfound problem, updates will come more often. Not Intel-in-2000 often but more often nonetheless.

[BRussell]

A guess: Only the 2.5 Ghz machine is using the 90 nm chips, and they're still not available in quantity from IBM, which is why that machine isn't available for a month. The other two machines use the same 130 nm chips as before, which is why they're still at 1.8 and 2 Ghz and available now.

If you read the Tech Overview and White Paper at http://www.apple.com/powermac/specs.html , it says the G5 is 90 nm, but it could be that they're only talking about the high-end one.

Or, I could be wrong and they're all the new chips. It just seems odd that there's such a big jump in the middle. And one problem with that low low-end is that it doesn't leave as much room for a really fast G5 iMac as I would like.

[BRussell]

Originally posted by Jamil
I hope this is just flak being thrown to ward off the rumors.

[BRussell]

Originally posted by les t
What were the prices (US) before these revisions? Are they the same price, cheaper, or more expensive?

Les.

It looks like they increased the price of the low-end model.

[oldmacfan]

If this was Febuary, we would have enjoyed this little speed bump.

This is F!@#$ JUNE, I expect Steve is not too happy with this update.

I might consider the idea of a liquid cooled G5 iMac coming at WWDC.

eeerrrrrrrr. sorry about the last line, that belongs in Future Hardware.

[tompage]

Originally posted by Mr. MacPhisto
I always get a kick out of Europeans who complain about Apple's high(er) prices over there and seem to expect Apple to sell their machines in such a way that the 17% VAT (in some places) would bring the price in line with US prices - so they expect Apple to eat the shipping and the tax.

If only that were the case - just as an immediate example, the new Airport Express WITHOUT VAT of 17.5% in the UK is $147 which is about 14% more than the US price. This is pretty standard and can be higher in some cases. When you are talking about a top spec desktop, 10-20% extra can be quite a lot of money when you have to pay another 17.5% VAT on top of that.

[Yevgeny]

Originally posted by The Placid Casual


The new Dial 1.8 has the 1.6 board...!

4 Gig RAM max and PCI!!

A shambles.

You just have to be joking. ONLY 4GB Ram? How many users of low end towers need more than 4GB of RAM? ONLY PCI? How many users need PCI-X in a low end tower? If Apple's cutting features on the LOW END model makes it cheaper then Apple did the right thing. Homestly folks, the Dual 1.8 has a 900MXz FSB. IT isn't as if this machine sucks.

[evantandersen]

imac G5's what will the low end one be? dual 1.8? or Dual 1.6

[tompage]

... and as for shipping, many Apple products sold in the UK are shipped from Apple's facility in Ireland whereas US goods are often shipped from Taiwan or similar. It should cost them more to ship across the Pacific than it should to ship across the Irish Sea!

[BRussell]

Originally posted by Yevgeny
If Apple's cutting features on the LOW END model makes it cheaper then Apple did the right thing.

Yeah but they fucking raised the price on the low end, they didn't make it cheaper.

[Yevgeny]

Originally posted by BRussell
It looks like they increased the price of the low-end model.

Duh, yeah. That's because the low end model went from single 1.6 to dual 1.8. Yes, it costs more money, but the performance increase is quite substantial.

[Yevgeny]

Originally posted by BRussell
Yeah but they fucking raised the price on the low end, they didn't make it cheaper.

DUAL CPU's ON THE LOW END. This is a GOOD thing. The overall price/performance ratio has gotten much better.

Honestly, if you can't afford a few hundred extra for a second CPU, then go buy an iBook or an eMac.

[ZoSo]

Originally posted by Mr. MacPhisto
Can't really blame Apple for any taxes and/or tariffs that they get hit with when they're selling they're product outside of the US. I always get a kick out of Europeans who complain about Apple's high(er) prices over there and seem to expect Apple to sell their machines in such a way that the 17% VAT (in some places) would bring the price in line with US prices - so they expect Apple to eat the shipping and the tax.

Nobody in Europe complains about the high taxes that we have. To be more accurate, sometimes-pretty often I might say-the numbers simply do not match: take the US price, convert it in €, add local sales tax, and then compare it to the price the local AppleStore charges. Most of the time it is higher than it should be, and frankly this is what pisses us EU-Mac Users off. Not to mention that it certainly doesn't help to build a higher market share this side of the pond...

As for the updates, I'm not too terribly impress and feel that this update is really only temporary, lasting only through September. It should have happened back a few months ago, but IBM's 90nm problems forced a postponement. I think I'll wait until the next update. Hopefully Apple's rumored abandonment of ADC will lead to better video card options.

I agree, processor problems should have been expected, and they were, sort of... What doesn't really convince me at all is this practice of using outdated components, of crippling the features of every model save the top-end. 4 RAM slots? PCI? GeForce 5200? 256 megs of RAM? 80 GB HD? This isn't the way to go. If you can't bump clock-speed high enought then at leat put in more features!

Those who bought the old 1.8 dual maybe paid a little more, but have a computer that will last longer than the new one. And those who bought the old 2.0 are still on top of the pack-since we all know July means September or even October in Apple's speak, especially here in the EU-and even when the 2.5 will finally ship those old 2.0 owners will still be second only to it, performance-wise.

Heck, if I didn't live in 30 sq meters I might go out today and pick one of the old ones up at a good price!

What the hell's going on in Cupertino? Can anybody at Apple pull his head out of his ass??? (I always loved this expression! )

ZoSo

[BRussell]

Originally posted by Yevgeny
Duh, yeah. That's because the low end model went from single 1.6 to dual 1.8. Yes, it costs more money, but the performance increase is quite substantial.

Then don't claim in your previous post that Apple cut features on the low end in order to make it cheaper. It's not cheaper now, it's more expensive.

[Kickaha]

Originally posted by ZoSo
Nobody in Europe complains about the high taxes that we have. To be more accurate, sometimes-pretty often I might say-the numbers simply do not match: take the US price, convert it in €, add local sales tax, and then compare it to the price the local AppleStore charges. Most of the time it is higher than it should be, and frankly this is what pisses us EU-Mac Users off. Not to mention that it certainly doesn't help to build a higher market share this side of the pond...

Tell you what... when you get the prices here in the States for Orangina, Lindt chocolate, Maman's jellies, and Nutella down to what I saw them for in Europe, we can discuss Apple's pricing. :P

[nathan22t]

From http://www.apple.com/powermac/graphics.html
For over-the-top graphics that saturate your senses, choose the optional ATI Radeon 9800 XT, an AGP Pro card and the fastest and most visually advanced 3D graphics accelerator on the planet.

I wish Apple wasn't lying to us.

This claim cannot be defended
period

[nathan22t]

Originally posted by job
I am very glad to see the 9600 finally get 128MB of VRAM.

We needed the x800 XT on PCI Express. The 9600 with x amount of ram is unacceptable and embarrassing. It will only become more so... depending upon how long these machines stick around.

With the promise of no 3.0Ghz anytime soon (and 90nm troubles), it will probably be a while. Unfortunately, Apple only updates non processor components when the processors in the line are updated.

[ZoSo]

Originally posted by Kickaha
Tell you what... when you get the prices here in the States for Orangina, Lindt chocolate, Maman's jellies, and Nutella down to what I saw them for in Europe, we can discuss Apple's pricing. :P

True! But how many times you go to the local Hannaford (or any other grocery store) to buy 3,500 USD worth of Nutella?

Cheers,

ZoSo

[ast3r3x]

I'm pretty happy with the updates...after eugene put the upgrade into perspective. Either way I still plan on purchasing a dual 1.8. I've always felt that I should have got a G5 instead of a PowerBook 15" 1.25Ghz last year because I need the extra power. While I have become well acquainted with the portability of my PowerBook, I could live with a tower because it will give me the the extra power that I need. Plus hopefully my parents will buy my PowerBook off of me.

So my next question...how much do you think I could get for my PowerBook?

-1.25Ghz
-Combo Drive
-512MB RAM
-Backlit Keyboard
-80GB HD
-All original documentation and stuff to go with it.
-Only problems are the deterioration of the aluminium from sweat where your palms rest, and small nick on the corner of the top of my screen.

I'm thinking $1200-$1500? Anyone want to make an offer?