Powerbook 12"... some issues

[ironchef82]

Hi everyone,

I just got my new Powerbook 12" today, and it's great, but there are a few things I'd like to run past people who currently have the machine...

1. It wobbles... :-( I have about 10 pieces of paper under the bottom right corner and it's a temporary solution... but anyone out there with this same issue have another suggestion or something permanent to address this?

2. The slot-loading drive... I have to insert a CD about 90% of the way in, and it makes an awkward mechanical noise... not really something I'm used to... like I figure it should be sorta quiet, like the slot-load in my car's cd player. And when it ejects it makes a noise too, not really sure if it's normal..

Other than that... everything seems great... thought it's only about 4 hours old, so hopefully nothing worse will happen... but yeah, great machine, i don't regret purchasing this at all... I was trying to connect it to my cable modem, so I plug it in, and being used to Windows, I go to system prefs to try to fiddle with the settings... it was nice to see everything had been taken care of by OS X. :-)

[Kecksy]

The slot loading mechanism in my TiBook is noisy as well. I don't think any computer CD drive is a quite as the kind used in cars. I think your noise is normal.

[alcimedes]

the wobble is odd.

turn it over and see if all of the rubber stops are still attached underneath.

[ironchef82]

All four rubber stops are there... it's just that not all of them are of the exact same length I guess...

I've been reading around on some message boards... it seems like this issue is present on some 12" powerbooks, but I'm not sure if it's due to the rubber feet or due to the metal warping because of heat (! - i sure hope that doesn't happen to mine)

[Paul]

the slot-loading drive mechanism is actually MUCH better the the older ones used in the rev. a TiBooks... the old one had problems because people would force the CDs into the drive too fast and it would break now you can really go as fast as you want and nothing bad will happen...

[Aquatic]

Mine doesn't wobble, and the slot-load noise is normal. Scared me the first time too.

Now to serious issues: it appears to me as if there are some MAJOR problems with the NVIDIA drivers..I am whining so much because it no one else noticed/experiences this! First, DVDs lag full screen in DVD Player.

Second, there are horizontal lines in the screen whenever something is moving a lot, like a game, movie, or just quickly dragging a window around.

ironchef82 are you seeing these issues like I am?

Here's my thread on these extremely annoying "lines": <a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=002281" target="_blank">http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=002281</a>

[Clive]

Yes, I had the "wobble" too. Across the axix oposite the battery, right? (ie the battery corner and the diagonally oposite corner are the ones that move?).

I've had mine, a month tomorrow, and when I first had it I couldn't stand it, but it seems to have gradually gone away - no idea why. Though perhaps I should try it on another surface.

As far as the screen goes - it's a crappy screen with a pretty poor viewing angle (ie with yout head three feet from the screen you're getting colour distortion across it no matter what you do). My previous PowerBook was a 5300 with the 800*600 screen - and that screen is better!?

Having said that I really like the portability, and I can plug it into a big screen any time. The only issue I have there is that you don't seem to be able to switcth the small screen off at all, or use the external monitor with the PowerBook closed (is that an odd thing to want to do?).

My only other wish is that it would boot into 9.x!

[Wifty]

A few people have mentioned this use of an external monitor and losing performance. Is this something that occurres with the Ti as well - I mean can you mirror that with the screen closed or do you lose performance there as well.

Just wondering whether it was a standard thing or something specific to the graphics card.

cheers

[ironchef82]

Thanks for the replies everyone...

Yes, the wobble is across the corner with the battery and the diagonally opposite corner (bottom right, top left, respectively)... I mean, it seems fine with my temporary solution... but with a great piece of equipment like this, this really shouldn't be an issue...

As for the slot load drive... glad to hear it's normal, I guess... so I really do have to push a CD in about 90 - 95% of the way in before the drive accepts it?

Aquatic, I haven't tried playing a DVD yet... haven't had time, really... not a good idea to get your Powerbook when you have a test the following day and two problem sets due the next... but when I try it, I'll get back to you.

[Stoo]

I've noticed that my 12" PowerBook doesn't like changing resolution/attaching external displays. The screen goes a bit weird for a few seconds (large black areas) and it always defaults to 60Hz NTSC rather than 50Hz PAL for video out. I haven't had the time to watch any DVDs or play games on it yet.

I have a single dead pixel near the screen centre, that stays green. It grabs your attention most when the screen is predominantly black. What's the policy on replacements?

Software update didn't complete: maybe it was because I shut the lid when it was downloading 10.2.4? Why aren't resumable downloads used more often?

My issue with the PowerBook not accessing apple.com URLs has mysteriously vanished. Setting it up with my Buffalo 802.11g Airstation was easy.

[ 03-13-2003: Message edited by: Stoo ]</p>

[Clive]

[quote]Originally posted by ironchef82:
<strong>Yes, the wobble is across the corner with the battery and the diagonally opposite corner (bottom right, top left, respectively)... I mean, it seems fine with my temporary solution... but with a great piece of equipment like this, this really shouldn't be an issue...</strong><hr></blockquote>

I just rotated mine 90 degrees on this desk, it does in fact still wobble. If I can find a glass desk I'll try it again - and if it still does it it's going back.

I don't think you should have to resort to bits of paper to keep is level, send it back, it's a manufacturing fault.

As to dead pixels - I think Apple's policy is up to four on a big screen - but the 12" is hardly big. Personally if I had even one dead pixel, on any size screen, I'd send it back. Apple can point to "policy" all they like - but that's not going to stand up in the UK, it's a manufacturing fault fair and square.

[Scott]

You all will love this one.

My case bent just a tad. Where the button for the latch is. It popped out a little bit. I have no idea how it happened. I don't lug it that much and never pile a bunch of stuff on it. So I don't know how it happened.

It's the kind of thing you wouldn't see unless I showed you.

[Kesh]

Remember that Quartz Extreme really needs 32 MB of VRAM to function properly, and th AluBook only has 32 MB. If you use monitor spanning for two displays, you're cutting your VRAM in half (16 MB dedicated to each display). That's going to hurt your QE response.

[Ti Fighter]

yea the wobble thing was driving me a little crazy, i couldn't tell if it was the desk or the laptop. Its fine in a certain part of the desk yet i rotate it a couple of degrees and it wobbles, no one at works complained about em yet so i dunno. hmmm so you cant close the lid when hooked up to an external display? I want to get 12"'s for everyone at work, and have them hooked up to LCD monitors at there desks, that could prove to be a pain if its true. I'll have to try it tomorrow. btw I like the screen think it looks good, compared to my ti book at least

[Aquatic]

I don't have wobble but these "lines" in my "more graphics weirdness" thread are going to make me soil myself if Apple doesn't fix it. No one else is seeing this???

[Scott]

Mine wobbles but it is due to the desk. It may be that because it relies on four feet to make contact it falls victim to bad surfaces. Imagine if there were no feet and the entire surface were flat on the table.

[othello]

[quote]Originally posted by Clive:
<strong>

Having said that I really like the portability, and I can plug it into a big screen any time. The only issue I have there is that you don't seem to be able to switcth the small screen off at all, or use the external monitor with the PowerBook closed (is that an odd thing to want to do?).

My only other wish is that it would boot into 9.x!</strong><hr></blockquote>

its odd that you can close the lid on a 15" PowerBook and run an external monitor off it (which I do with mine), but not the 12", which I thought it would have been ideal for...

what happens when you try and do it? i put my machine to sleep and close the lid, connect my external monitor and plug-in my keyboard and mouse and hey presto! (sorry clive, have another egg grandma)

[ironchef82]

Hmm... you know, I never really tested if this wobble issue I'm having is due to the surface in which I'm on or the computer itself... I'll try some other surfaces around my apartment when i get the chance in the next few days. And, to me, this issue is minor and not enough to warrant having to send it back to Apple for repair. I've already begun the process of switching and transferring all my files, so I don't really want to do that again...

And Aquatic, I posted on your original thread about the graphics issue... i'm not seeing anything weird at all, sorry.

But in the big picture, so far this machine has been superb. This is my first Mac ever, and I don't regret switching.

[Stoo]

[quote]As to dead pixels - I think Apple's policy is up to four on a big screen - but the 12" is hardly big. Personally if I had even one dead pixel, on any size screen, I'd send it back. Apple can point to "policy" all they like - but that's not going to stand up in the UK, it's a manufacturing fault fair and square.<hr></blockquote>

Yep, it's got to be "fit for the intended purpose", which isn't helped by a glaring green pixel in the centre of the screen. I think I'll give them a call.

[madmax559]

instead of nitpicking this to death
why not take the laptop to an apple store
& compare it & demand an exchange if somethings
wrong with it

some of you keep railing against pc's
but if you had the same issue with a pc part
you could exchange it with no hassles

just beacuse its apple i dont see any reason
to put up with a manufacturing defect (incl bad
pixels) & waste your money.

my 2 c

pete

[Ti Fighter]

like someone said above, technically a certian amout of bad pixles is acepted and will not warrent a return (at least in the US). To get a unit replaced for one bad pixel, you either have to be really lucky, or make a really big deal about it to the company and hope they do it. But you should deff try, the more people that demand that this is not acceptible the better it will be for all of us.

[os10geek]

Yeah. The guys at the Aple Store would probably tell you where to take it to be fixed...It probably won't be a "Mail it in and we'll fix it" kind of thing.

[Ti Fighter]

like someone said above, technically a certian amout of bad pixles is acepted and will not warrent a return (at least in the US). To get a unit replaced for one bad pixel, you either have to be really lucky, or make a really big deal about it to the company and hope they do it. But you should deff try, the more people that demand that this is not acceptible the better it will be for all of us.

good luck

edit: yea I just tried it cant close the 12" when hooked up to a external monitor, it just goes right to sleep <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

[ 03-14-2003: Message edited by: Ti Fighter ]</p>

[fred_lj]

As has been said before, it's not a good idea to run the system closed anyway even though it might seem appropriate. With a G4 notebook, the heat dissipation requires the keyboard's open surface -- melting an LCD probably isn't likely, but might as well play it safe.

[jobes]

i ordered a superdrive 12"PB with a full complement of RAM from the apple uk store just after they were announced. got it in late january ... think it was one of the first BTO models in the country.

i immediately had several niggling issues with it. it wobbled, as described above, on a diagonal. i tried it on multiple surfaces and it always did it. the lid didn't close tightly ... there was certain amount of 'give' even when the lid was closed. the trackpad button was 'sticky' and would sometimes release ponderously slowly. i could live with all of these niggles after a fashion ... after all it was my first laptop and i was already really enjoying using it for work and play.

what swung it for me was when i tried opening the lid one morning. the hex screw on the bottom right of the screen bezel had somehow dislodged, dropping down and catching on the opposing edge of the bottom case just above the power button. the first i knew of this was when the lid refused to open properly, then 'tore' open, bending the aluminuim fascia of the bezel and ejecting the offending screw onto the desk. i carry the machine everywhere in neoprene sleeve, inside a padded bag, so i didn't think this fault was due to my rough handling.

having bought online from apple, and having bought applecare for my PB (def a wise move for any laptop owner, i now believe) I called apple. they arranged to send out a replacement BTO machine and collect mine. when i explained i needed the machine for various jobs, and had spent 2 weeks config'ing my machine with my tools and apps, they agreed to send the new machine on to me, but give me time to transfer my files. carbon copy cloner with a cleanly formatted HD on the new machine via firewire target mode let me copy everything in about 30mins.

my new machine is structually sound ... no wobbles, lid closes solidly and without movement, and trackpad is fine. however it does seem to get slightly warmer than the first machine, my xbench scores are slightly lower, and the internal fan seems to have a slight rattle and is noticebly louder than before. its slightly aggrevating, but i'll wait to see if i have any more pressing issues before i send this one back

btw, anyone else surprised by the sudden 'woosh' of air as the fan kicks in on the 12"PB? it's startled me on more than one occasion in an otherwise silent room...

[Ti Fighter]

" With a G4 notebook, the heat dissipation requires the keyboard's open surface -- melting an LCD probably isn't likely, but might as well play it safe."

intresting, my thought was having it closed would be good for the LCD screen by not using it as much, but what you said makes sense.

"there was certain amount of 'give' even when the lid was closed."

i thought this was normal to help prevent the keyboard marks on the screen when closed.

btw where did you find a sleeve that fits the 12"?

"anyone else surprised by the sudden 'woosh' of air as the fan kicks in on the 12"PB?"

when i have a cd in my ti book, sometimes it goes into top gear, sounds like a lawn mower in the computer till it decides to stop or you eject it. at least i think its the cd

[The Pie Man]

[quote]Originally posted by fred_lj:
<strong>As has been said before, it's not a good idea to run the system closed anyway even though it might seem appropriate. With a G4 notebook, the heat dissipation requires the keyboard's open surface -- melting an LCD probably isn't likely, but might as well play it safe.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I am too lazy to look right now, but I am pretty sure this is touted as a feature of these books in Apple spec sheets - this isn't a hack someone figured out. I think it even tells you how to do it in the little manual that comes with the footlong...

[Ti Fighter]

found this on the apple site forums-

The best way is to connect the monitor you want to use. Nothing will be displayed unless you click Detect Displays. Then restart. Wait for the chime - but literally as soon as the PowerBook has chimed, close the lid. Your external monitor will now show the start-up sequence. Once it has finished, you can open the lid and use the keyboard and trackpad - and the built-in screen will not come on unless you click Detect Displays. You can open and close the lid as much as you want and it will not make the PowerBook sleep.

[Clive]

[quote]Originally posted by othello:
<strong>
what happens when you try and do it? i put my machine to sleep and close the lid, connect my external monitor and plug-in my keyboard and mouse and hey presto! (sorry clive, have another egg grandma)
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well someone reckons in another thread, like you say, that you have to plug in a keyboard and mose too. I didn't have that, I just wanted it to run while I was watching something on an external monitor.

As far as the wobble goes, it's surface dependent in terms of it doesn't happen on some surfaces. But that's because they are uneven, not because the PowerBook is not faulty. The test to my mind is whether it wobbles on glass surfaces, and whether it does no matter how it's rotated - and it does.

So it's definitely a manufacturing fault. I've never seen another PowerBook do it - the 12" is unuusally stiff, you can't get any flex in it at all.

[Kesh]

[quote]Originally posted by Ti Fighter:
<strong>btw where did you find a sleeve that fits the 12"?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Any sleeve made for the 12" iBook will also fit the 12" Powerbook. Just a few that I know of:

<a href="http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?code=5810-IBSL" target="_blank">iceBook Sleeve</a> - A nice little slipcase with a handle. The best part is that it has a metal gromit to expose the power port, so you can charge the iBook/AluBook while it's in the sleeve! No shoulder strap, though.

<a href="http://marware.com/SportFolio_II.html" target="_blank">Marware Sportfolio II</a> - Something of a hybrid between a sleeve and a case. It has a tight sleeve enclosure (zippered) with a thin front pocket. Has carrying handles and a shoulder strap.

<a href="http://www.yakpak.com/product.asp?dept%5Fid=90&pf%5Fid=1155" target="_blank">YakPak Medium Tech Flapdoozy</a> - I'm not sure about this one, as I haven't seen it in person. The measurements are the same as the iceBook Sleeve, though, so it should fit. Has a few extra compartments, plus a cell phone pouch on the shoulder strap.

<a href="http://shop.store.yahoo.com/directron/wetsuit.html" target="_blank">Notebook Wetsuit</a> - No longer in production, there was this neat little case. Originally manufactured for the Powerbook Duo, it also happened to fit the Powerbook 100. And now, it should be a perfect fit for the Powerbook 12"! This slipcover actually has some elastic bands that slip over the edges of the display and wrist rests, meaning you can open the laptop while it is still in the case. Has carrying handles and a shoulder strap. If I can get mine out of storage, I'll try it out with my new AluBook.

[Ti Fighter]

cool thanks, I dunno why I didn't realize that the ibook was basicly the same size.

I tried plugging in a keyboard and mouse but it wouldn't wake up. But maybe i didn't try it in the exact order you guys said.

[ 03-16-2003: Message edited by: Ti Fighter ]</p>

[Scott]

I just bought a sleeve. I happened on one made by Columbia at a luggage store. The nice thing about it is that it's small and can expand, in a way. Plus it was on sale for $20.

I'd find it for you on the web site but the Columbia site fscking sucks.

[robster]

Hi just my small comments.

I bought my 12" pb thru the UK Apple store, it's a BTO model with a 60Gb harddisk and superdrive.
It took about 2 weeks to arrive.
I've had none of the problems you've listed here.
DVD's play perfectly in full screen, there's no lines appearing on games or intensive graphic operations.
Theres no wobble either.
However I had a chat with someone I know who lives in Ireland and works for Apple Support for the UK.
They hinted that the first production run of the 12" has these problems. The later mainly BTO models had the problems ironed out.

Makes sense...

[Kesh]

Just for the record, I have a BTO model that arrived this last week. None of the other problems, but this one does have a slight wobble on certain surfaces. Barely noticable though.

[Clive]

I've got a BTO (but was a stock item at Micro Anvika) - 60GB/Airport/SuperDrive. It's got the wobble. No other faults I can find yet though.

[Aquatic]

Same build of 10.2? Look carefully at the DVD in full screen when the camera pans and the whole screen moves. My "lines" are definitely a cruddy driver issue, they show up on an external display when the internal LCD is off, at all refresh rates are resolutions. I hope NVIDIA drivers are updated, this is annoying in games and when watching movies.

[ 03-17-2003: Message edited by: Aquatic ]</p>

[Solar]

A few notes on my footlong experience so far. I did notice the Chunky DVD Playback right away.. that kind of upset me, because my pismo had a similar problem for about the first month i owned it, not chunky playback, but the audio would go out of sync over time, so the dubbing looked like a kung fu movie.. The fact that the CPU monitor trick works, has me statisfied for now, as long as a fix comes along in the next few weeks..

My unit has the Wobble. I didn't notice it actually until I read some of the threads on here.. I don't really give a shit about this one.. It spends 99 percent of the time on my lap, or closed, on my desk plugged into my CRT.

which leads me to the next thing:

Originally posted by Kesh
Remember that Quartz Extreme really needs 32 MB of VRAM to function properly, and th AluBook only has 32 MB. If you use monitor spanning for two displays, you're cutting your VRAM in half (16 MB dedicated to each display). That's going to hurt your QE response.

I've been spanning with my 21inch viewsonic, at 1200x1600, and not I haven't noticed a performance Hit at all..

Quartz Extreme Checker This thing would be a lot cooler if it burped out some numbers, instead of telling you if QE is
working or not

QE is active on both displays, but I don't know how much vram gets allocated to each. I'd assume there's some sort of dynamic allocation based on what rez you're running, but I don't really know..

-solar

[Overhope]

Okay, had mine about a month now, and it has no wobble and no video issues other than crappy artefacts in fullscreen DVD playback in spanning mode only: just spent half an hour with iTunes visuals nad some QT movies in fullscreen on the TV, and there were no problems.

I was even running QT and iTunes into the video mixer in the pub the other week (long story), and on 4 TVs and a video projector, nobody noticed anything funny (not least me, as I was looking most closely).

Of course, YMMV.

[forcelite]

I like the wetsuit idea, but wont that further impair the heat dissipation of the powerbook, which it already gets really hot? I just wated to see what yall thought
Forcelite

[Aquatic]

When I took my battery out and put it back in I had "wobble" too but I squeezed a little and it went away. I think it's just loose battery. However I think ALL PowerBook G4 mini's have my "lines", the drivers just need goosing on performance.