Blu-Ray Macbook Pro?

[Tomster1300]

My 15" Aluminum Powerbook is in need of repairs and I'm not sure how motivated I am to spend more money on it. Is there any talk of an Intel Macbook Pro with Blu-Ray capability coming by year end? It would be nice to be able to burn HD DVD on a laptop.

[onlooker]

Originally posted by Tomster1300
My 15" Aluminum Powerbook is in need of repairs and I'm not sure how motivated I am to spend more money on it. Is there any talk of an Intel Macbook Pro with Blu-Ray capability coming by year end? It would be nice to be able to burn HD DVD on a laptop.

I'd say no. Chances of that would be slim. AFAIK the first blue ray player is being released on June 25th, and it's $999.00. Sony Pictures and Lionsgate Films are still launching their first Blue Ray movies on May 23rd with no actual hardware available. I'm doubting they will have a scaled down slim line version, or one inexpensive enough to be used in a laptop within 6 months. Maybe by mid next year. You may find HD-DVD burners in Mac's before they can provide Blu-Ray players, but hopefully Sony's playstation will keep Blu-Ray alive, and bring it out of what appears to be it's rough patch to a more dominant position by the middle of next year. I'm sure eventually someone will develop a player that burns both, and when it's announced the world will release a deep breath of relief.

My problem is that I still want to be able to back up my movies. I have no idea how that is going to be possible on either format.

[Fran441]

I don't have a dog in this fight, I don't really care which format comes out on top, but something needs to be pointed out about Sony formats.

Failed formats Sony was involved in:

Betamax: VHS killed this format in the early 80s. Despite displaying a better picture than VHS, it could not record 6 hours of tape like a VHS VCR.

Video CD (VCD): Only took off in Asian markets other than Japan.

MMCD: The DVD that didn't make it. The Super Density Disc format won out to prevent a format war and Sony eventually incorporated some of it's technology into the DVD standard.

HQ-VCD: Developed for China as a high quality video CD. The Chinese developed CVD and HQ-VCD never saw the light of day.

UMD: This is the PlayStation Portable video format. Although Sony planned for a standalone UMD player to connect with Televisions, the format has fizzled. Owning a PSP myself, I can say that the only PSP movie I own is Spider Man 2 which came with the PSP itself. I have never watched it from beginning to end on my PSP. The UMD movies are typically more expensive than DVDs and have fewer features. Most studios which backed the UMD format have lost money on them and have ceased putting out new releases on UMD. Wal Mart, a major UMD retailer, has also decided to pull the UMD movies off of shelves.

Mini Disc: This audio format was designed to replace cassettes in the early 90s. Once again, this format failed in the US and Europe but has a decent base in Japan.

Super Audio CD: In a format war with DVD Audio, majority of the library is classical music.

The one success for Sony I can think of off the top of my head is the CD. We all use them so there's no denying their success here. But CDs came out in the 80s and Sony has screwed up almost every format they have released since.

Does this mean that Blu-Ray is doomed to failure? It's still too early to tell. HD-DVD has the blessing of the DVD Forum and backing from Microsoft. Blu-Ray players and media are very expensive as well. But Blu-Ray does have the benefit of being standard in the PS3, and it was the PS2 that really made the DVD mainstream. Microsoft already failed to put HD-DVD drives into the Xbox 360 although there will be a $500 add-on sometime this year (ouch).

Back on topic, Apple is part of the Blu-Ray Disc Association but it is also part of the DVD Forum. I think that if we do see Blu-Ray drives or HD-DVD drives, we'll see them in the Power Macs first, the iMacs second, the PowerBooks third, the Mac Minis fourth, and the iBooks fifth. By the time the drives reach the Minis or iBooks, there will probably be a clear 'winner' in the format war.

[crampy20]

Originally posted by Fran441

I don't have a dog in this fight, I don't really care which format comes out on top, but something needs to be pointed out about Sony formats.

Failed formats Sony was involved in:

Betamax: VHS killed this format in the early 80s. Despite displaying a better picture than VHS, it could not record 6 hours of tape like a VHS VCR.

Video CD (VCD): Only took off in Asian markets other than Japan.

MMCD: The DVD that didn't make it. The Super Density Disc format won out to prevent a format war and Sony eventually incorporated some of it's technology into the DVD standard.

HQ-VCD: Developed for China as a high quality video CD. The Chinese developed CVD and HQ-VCD never saw the light of day.

UMD: This is the PlayStation Portable video format. Although Sony planned for a standalone UMD player to connect with Televisions, the format has fizzled. Owning a PSP myself, I can say that the only PSP movie I own is Spider Man 2 which came with the PSP itself. I have never watched it from beginning to end on my PSP. The UMD movies are typically more expensive than DVDs and have fewer features. Most studios which backed the UMD format have lost money on them and have ceased putting out new releases on UMD. Wal Mart, a major UMD retailer, has also decided to pull the UMD movies off of shelves.

Mini Disc: This audio format was designed to replace cassettes in the early 90s. Once again, this format failed in the US and Europe but has a decent base in Japan.

Super Audio CD: In a format war with DVD Audio, majority of the library is classical music.

The one success for Sony I can think of off the top of my head is the CD. We all use them so there's no denying their success here. But CDs came out in the 80s and Sony has screwed up almost every format they have released since.

Does this mean that Blu-Ray is doomed to failure? It's still too early to tell. HD-DVD has the blessing of the DVD Forum and backing from Microsoft. Blu-Ray players and media are very expensive as well. But Blu-Ray does have the benefit of being standard in the PS3, and it was the PS2 that really made the DVD mainstream. Microsoft already failed to put HD-DVD drives into the Xbox 360 although there will be a $500 add-on sometime this year (ouch).

Back on topic, Apple is part of the Blu-Ray Disc Association but it is also part of the DVD Forum. I think that if we do see Blu-Ray drives or HD-DVD drives, we'll see them in the Power Macs first, the iMacs second, the PowerBooks third, the Mac Minis fourth, and the iBooks fifth. By the time the drives reach the Minis or iBooks, there will probably be a clear 'winner' in the format war.

Wow, excellent i never learned that much about... anything in such a small space. i never realized half that stuff even existed.

[hmurchison]

That indeed was an excellent post Fran441. I learned a bit as well.

Sony is a maverick...sometimes I love'em some time I hate'em. However as long as Universal players can be made I have no fears about either format. In 5 yrs they'll be as cheap as today's midrange DVD players and the quality is undeniable on and HDTV set.

[onlooker]

Originally posted by Fran441
By the time the drives reach the Minis or iBooks, there will probably be a clear 'winner' in the format war.

Hi Fran. How's that Newton doing?

I don't think this format war is going to end in the same way the others did. Reason Being is that if you look at the partners in the Blu-Ray side it's all Movie Studios that make films. I think they are interested in this for storage for HD digital filming purposes. An hour of regular footage takes up terabytes of space. That's not including second unit footage, effects footage, and all the other random footage needed. Not to mention library's of stock footage.
Then you have to consider how many movies each studio has in production each month, year, and Archiving all this footage. They want the additional space of Blu-Ray. It's not going to just go away so easily. It'll be around next year, and the PS3 will keep it alive until we have a player that plays both kinds.

On another note. If it wasn't for the youth, and the MP3 revolution SACD wouldn't have been in this position. But.. I think as we get older SACD, or something similar will make a comeback. Anyone who appreciates music can appreciate the SACD. At least those who become Audiophiles.

[marzetta7]

I don't have a dog in this fight, I don't really care which format comes out on top, but something needs to be pointed out about Sony formats.

Failed formats Sony was involved in:

Betamax: VHS killed this format in the early 80s. Despite displaying a better picture than VHS, it could not record 6 hours of tape like a VHS VCR.

What really needs to be pointed out here, and of oourse you failed to submit is that Blu-ray is NOT a Sony only based format! It is getting quite irritating for all those who make it appear that Sony is the only company behind Blu-ray and then proceed to make Betamax vs. VHS analogies. Sony is a part of the BDA, a consortium made up of the majority of consumer electronics and computer manufacturers. You have Panasonic (I believe one of the biggest if not the biggest consumer electonics company), Philips, Pioneer, Samsung, LG, Apple, HP, Dell, and the other 150+ companies behind the format.

By the way, we've beat to death the whole Betamax vs. VHS FUD before as

1) Blu-ray will have more storage than HD DVD so will be able to record more information than its sub standard counterpart in HD DVD

and

2) Betamax failed as a result of Sony not licensing out the format. Blu-ray, again NOT a Sony only format will be sharing royalties within the consortium. This mistake will not be made again.

and

3) VHS also took off due to the porn industry choosing this format. Take a guess of who the majority of the porn industry is supporting this time around...if you guessed Blu-ray you are correct. If you guessed HD DVD, your flat wrong.

Video CD (VCD): Only took off in Asian markets other than Japan.

MMCD: The DVD that didn't make it. The Super Density Disc format won out to prevent a format war and Sony eventually incorporated some of it's technology into the DVD standard.

HQ-VCD: Developed for China as a high quality video CD. The Chinese developed CVD and HQ-VCD never saw the light of day.

UMD: This is the PlayStation Portable video format. Although Sony planned for a standalone UMD player to connect with Televisions, the format has fizzled. Owning a PSP myself, I can say that the only PSP movie I own is Spider Man 2 which came with the PSP itself. I have never watched it from beginning to end on my PSP. The UMD movies are typically more expensive than DVDs and have fewer features. Most studios which backed the UMD format have lost money on them and have ceased putting out new releases on UMD. Wal Mart, a major UMD retailer, has also decided to pull the UMD movies off of shelves.

Mini Disc: This audio format was designed to replace cassettes in the early 90s. Once again, this format failed in the US and Europe but has a decent base in Japan.

Super Audio CD: In a format war with DVD Audio, majority of the library is classical music.

The one success for Sony I can think of off the top of my head is the CD. We all use them so there's no denying their success here. But CDs came out in the 80s and Sony has screwed up almost every format they have released since.

Does this mean that Blu-Ray is doomed to failure? It's still too early to tell. HD-DVD has the blessing of the DVD Forum and backing from Microsoft. Blu-Ray players and media are very expensive as well. But Blu-Ray does have the benefit of being standard in the PS3, and it was the PS2 that really made the DVD mainstream. Microsoft already failed to put HD-DVD drives into the Xbox 360 although there will be a $500 add-on sometime this year (ouch).

Cmon, please. The HD DVD forum is a joke. There are many companies that are Blu-ray only shops that are also a part of the HD DVD forum. The reason the Blu-ray consortium became huge was because many of the Blu-ray proponents were purposely absent when the HD DVD forum voted on the format and an absentee vote was intended to be counted as a vote of NO. However, it didn't take long for the clever HD DVD proponents to change the way absentee votes were counted and swiftly "blessed"--as you so put it--HD DVD as the next gen format. What insued was a flocking of company after company to the BDA, because of the farce that the HD DVD forum became and is currently.

Moreover, the backing of Micosoft means what exactly what considering that Vista has been delayed until 2007? By the time Vista ships with their "native support of HD DVD" that a lot of sheep tout, the PS3 will be in millions of homes worldwide. That's right millions. Starting in early November, Sony expects to ship and sell 1 million units per month. That makes roughly 3 million with Blu-ray capability before Vista sees the light of day. So stop with the blessing of Microsoft factor, as it is nothing more than smoke. And, I have to agree with you, ouch on the expensive add-on that Microsoft will attempt to sell with the Xbox. However, Microsoft and Xbox fanboys will still stay in line like sheeps to the slaughter with their wallets.

Furthermore, I think the statement, "Blu-Ray players and media are very expensive as well," is very misleading an untrue. What you have here is a brand new technology in Blu-ray, and as we all know new technology comes with a premium. First, however, I want to point out that the "media" that you claim to be more expensive will be selling at the same price as HD DVD media, so this is an untrue statement (both will be selling for about $23-$25). Moreover, Blu-ray media will have much, much more content to select from, but I'll get to that more later. Also, as far as the hardware is concerned, most will be quick to point out that most Blu-ray players are more expensive, but are most looking at the quality of the hardware or its capabilities? What a lot of people fail to realize is that the majority of consumers in this early adoption market consider quality paramount and thus will be willing to pay the extra premium. Also, the price of the Blu-ray hardware is often compared to the price of the HD DVD hardware with little mention of the hardware capabilities. For instance, some if not most Blu-ray hardware coming out will be able to play and record BDs (Blu-ray discs) and will have full 1080P playback capability. HD DVD on the other hand, will only offer playback with their players, and only offer 1080i playback. And again, this is an early adoption consumer market, so claiming that a cheap HD DVD player because of its price will trump all based on just price alone is folly. Not only is the Blu-ray hardware more capable, but most likely will drop in price given its broad backing of companies, again making light of the fact that Blu-ray is NOT just a Sony based format.

Back on topic, Apple is part of the Blu-Ray Disc Association but it is also part of the DVD Forum. I think that if we do see Blu-Ray drives or HD-DVD drives, we'll see them in the Power Macs first, the iMacs second, the PowerBooks third, the Mac Minis fourth, and the iBooks fifth. By the time the drives reach the Minis or iBooks, there will probably be a clear 'winner' in the format war.

Wow, excellent i never learned that much about... anything in such a small space. i never realized half that stuff even existed.

Yes, let's get back on topic, the topic of Apple even remotely supporting HD DVD. Apple is a Blu-ray shop. This has been made known in many articles and publication so trying to tie them into the HD DVD format is desperate in my opinion. Many will try to claim because of the capability of some Apple's current software offerings that Apple has plans to support HD DVD. In my opinon, nothing could be farther from the truth. Even Steve Jobs in a past Apple conference with Sony's president stated that he was looking forward to burning Blu-ray discs with Apple software. I think that pretty much says it all in terms of where Apple plans to go with high definition--Blu-ray. So, I have to respectfully disagree with you that we even have a remote chance of having a HD DVD drive in a mac. Actually, I totally think Macs will have Blu-ray drives by year's end in the Mac Pro (PowerMac) offerings. Especially, since Sony and othes are planning on having them. Sony will be releasing Blu-ray drives and slim notebook drives in their Vaio line of PCs. So, I don't think it is a stretch at all in thinking Apple will incorporate Blu-ray, and soon.

Also, getting to the point I made earlier about content, Blu-ray is supported by 7 out of the 8 major studios (Paramount, Warner, Fox, Disney, Lionsgate, MGM, and Sony Pictures). 5 of which are Blu-ray exclusively (Fox, Disney, Lionsgate, MGM, and Sony Pictures). So, my point here is that Blu-ray has much better support from Hollywood (and don't forget the majority of the porn industry--Digital Playground), consumer electronics companies, and computer manufacturers. So, in summary, Blu-ray is on top in regards to Hollywood studios, Porn studios, consumer electronics companies, and computer manufacturers, but because some think given Sony's Betamax history and because of the initial price of an early adoption market, Blu-ray will fail? Sounds to me like some are not looking into all the facts. I think Blu-ray is here as the next generation format, and we'll see them here soon in Macs.

[Fran441]

Well, we know which side of the fence you're on.

I'm still waiting to see who comes out on top before comitting to a platform though. As I said above, I don't have a dog in this fight. I will likely purchase a PS3 as I have purchased just about every major console from the last 2 decades, I'm anxiously waiting to see what the price will be. But like many Americans, I've spent quite a bit of money in building up a collection of DVDs and will likely spend quite a bit more on either Blu-Ray or HD-DVDs in the next 10 years. I just don't want to find myself in a situation 5 years from now unable to buy a new player for the format I chose and having those movies sitting on a shelf gathering dust, never to be played again.

Yes, Sony is not the only company involved in the Blu-Ray Disc Association but they are the ones that are the most heavily involved. The same is true of many of the formats I listed above. Sony is the company that released the first Blu-Ray recorder, Sony will be the first company to release a standalone Blu-Ray player (BDP-S1), and Sony is the first company to make a Blu-Ray player standard in another product (in this case, the PS3). We also can't forget that Sony Pictures is heavily betting on the format as well.

Speaking of Sony Pictures, they are cutting back heavily on releasing movies on UMDs, a Sony format.

Yes, new technology is expensive. But looking at the BDP-S1 and Toshiba's HD-DVD player, Sony's offering is $500 more expensive. This Ars Technica article from 2 weeks ago has more information about the discs being more expensive to make as well: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060316-6400.html

Also notice that when I talked about Apple putting in a next generation optical drive, I mentioned both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD as options because we don't know yet which format will come out on top. I would assume that if Apple starts out with Blu-Ray and it flops, they would adjust and start using HD-DVD drives and vice-versa. There's little doubt in my mind that this format war will be over by the time Apple has to decide which drive to put into the Mac Mini and iBooks. The earliest we could see one of these drives would be at WWDC in August in the new Power Macs. Otherwise, we won't see them until the second revision of Intel Power Macs sometime in 2007.

I don't think there's anything wrong with playing Devil's Advocate when Sony is involved in a new media format given their track record, that's all. When UMD movies were first coming out in the months following the PSP's release, I thought I would be buying quite a bit of them. Then I saw the prices of the discs. Who could justify spending more on a UMD than a DVD when the DVD has more features and can be played nearly everywhere vs. the UMD which can only be played in a PSP. People who spent money on UMD movies now are going to find themselves SOL if their PSP breaks after Sony moves on to the PSP2 or whatever is next.

Technologically speaking, Blu-Ray does seem to be more advanced. But then again, so was Betamax. I have a 1080p HDTV and so far, I've seen no content in 1080p. Some HD content is broadcast in 1080i or 720p, but no one is broadcasting in 1080p yet, so being able to buy a Blu-Ray player with this capability does interest me. But only a very small percentage of people with HDTVs have a 1080p set. 95% are likely to have a 720p or 1080i set and I'm not sure what the differences will be between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD for those people.

So as I said above, I'm still watching and waiting to see which format people go for if they go for either format at all. DVD players are still going to be the most popular players on the market for the forseeable future and if neither Blu-Ray or HD-DVD catch on, there's always the next big format just a few years further down the road.

[Tomster1300]

I really didn't want this to become another Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD discussion thread. I don't really care which format wins so long as I can transfer my High Def video from the camera to a DVD and then be able to play it on my High Def TV.

So my question should have been: "Any chance of Apple coming out with a laptop this year that will allow me to burn high definition DVD's from digital video tape?"

Thanks

[onlooker]

No.. Use your head. Look at the cost. You may be able to get one from a 3rd party,if your willing to sell your children to pay for it, but Apple is not going to put a $500.00 drive in a Laptop. Technically I don't think anyone will be making one that will fit until the prices come down anyway. It's not going to happen that soon.

[hmurchison]

Tomster

Way to get the thread back on target.

So my question should have been: "Any chance of Apple coming out with a laptop this year that will allow me to burn high definition DVD's from digital video tape?"

Here's a support page from that "Desperate" HD-DVD format that Apple so keenly dislikes :P

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301484

My emphasis added

DVD Studio Pro 4 gives you the choice of authoring a traditional DVD using standard definition (SD) assets or high definition (HD) assets. There are several factors to take into account when deciding which DVD format to use:

While an HD-based DVD can provide excellent HD video output, it can only be played on devices designed to specifically support it, such as Apple DVD Player. SD-based DVDs can be played on all DVD players, including those that play HD-based DVDs.

An HD project can be written on either a red laser disc (as is used by SD projects) or a blue laser disc. While SD-based DVD players can read red laser discs, they cannot play HD content from them. However, you can write an SD project and an HD project to the same red laser disc, which will play SD content when used in an SD-based DVD player and HD content when used in an HD-based DVD player.

Blue laser discs can hold about three times the data that a red laser disc can hold (a single-layer red laser disc can hold 4.7 GB, while a single-layer blue laser disc can hold 15 GB). Since you can use SD video in your HD project, writing on a blue laser disc allows you to get much more content on the disc.

You may need to author both SD-based and HD-based DVD versions of your project. The easiest way to do this is to first author the SD-based DVD version of your project. You can then set the DVD standard to HD DVD. DVD Studio Pro automatically converts the project, and you can then choose which QuickTime assets to encode to the HD format. Alternatively, you can swap SD assets with HD assets as needed.


Sure ..today this cost you money for DVD Studio Pro but it's encouraging that Apple has supported HD content on Red Laser 4.7/8.5GB discs. Say you compress your HD project to 10Mbps h.264 vbr you'd be able to at least play your HD content from your Mac and pipe it into a HDTV monitor for much higher quality than you'd get sticking with 480i MPEG2.

Whether you purchase Blu Ray or HD-DVD you'll have this option but as of today there are people burning HD content to red laser and just hoping for more playback devices.

[Tomster1300]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hmurchison

Sure ..today this cost you money for DVD Studio Pro but it's encouraging that Apple has supported HD content on Red Laser 4.7/8.5GB discs. Say you compress your HD project to 10Mbps h.264 vbr you'd be able to at least play your HD content from your Mac and pipe it into a HDTV monitor for much higher quality than you'd get sticking with 480i MPEG2.

Thanks, Hmurchison, for the info. It looks like it will be a while before I can send an HD DVD to friends and family and assume they will be able to play it back on their own TV's. My problem is not that I cannot play back my HD video.....clearly I can via the video camera or my Mac....the problem is allowing others to view from the comfort of their own living rooms. Maybe this time next year you can all view compelling HD video of my dogs in the backyard or my kid's high school graduation.

[marzetta7]

Yes, Sony is not the only company involved in the Blu-Ray Disc Association but they are the ones that are the most heavily involved. The same is true of many of the formats I listed above. Sony is the company that released the first Blu-Ray recorder, Sony will be the first company to release a standalone Blu-Ray player (BDP-S1), and Sony is the first company to make a Blu-Ray player standard in another product (in this case, the PS3). We also can't forget that Sony Pictures is heavily betting on the format as well.

Speaking of Sony Pictures, they are cutting back heavily on releasing movies on UMDs, a Sony format.

Yes, new technology is expensive. But looking at the BDP-S1 and Toshiba's HD-DVD player, Sony's offering is $500 more expensive. This Ars Technica article from 2 weeks ago has more information about the discs being more expensive to make as well: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060316-6400.html

Thanks for that. I've read the article and it should be noted that this is speculation at best. Regardless, this speculates Blu-ray discs being more expensive to MAKE. Who cares? The end price to the consumer is the same as HD DVD which will be $23-25. So what is your point? Other than trying to make it appear that somehow we as consumers will be charged more for Blu-ray discs? Which we will not. Furthermore, it still appears you are implying because Sony is more heavily involved (in your opinion, although I think the other 150+ companies may have a different opinion) it is somehow indicative of how Blu-ray like past Sony-only formats will be played out, and again, given logical reasons, I think I've given solid reasoning on why this will not be the case with Blu-ray. Also, with the formats you gave before, I believe they were all pretty much Sony owned through and through unless you can give me an example of one of those formats that had a backing like Blu-ray but somehow failed? Otherwise, I don't see how this argument applies.

Tomster1300, I agree that this ought not be another Blu-ray vs. HD DVD thread, but at the same time I don't think it is proper to let blatantly false statements go unchallenged. Moreover, I beleive I was well on target/topic in my last post, citing the availability of Sony Vaios desktops and laptops this year...

http://www.engadget.com/2006/03/10/s...os-by-midyear/

There's a link for you. So, if Sony can do it, in my estimation so can Apple.

Hmurchison, again with my empasis added, you are pinning your hopes on a DVD Studio Pro web doc for Apple claiming HD DVD support. Good call. I think I'll go with Apple's official statement as its logical choice which supports Blu-ray.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad Apple has the current capability to burn high definition discs, but in my opinion it is an interim solution until Blu-ray becomes mainstream.

[marzetta7]

Originally posted by Fran441
Well, we know which side of the fence you're on.

Can you tell? Hehehehe.

[Fran441]

Just glanced at that article, which predates the PS3 delay, and Sony expects those Vaio laptops to ship, 'around September'. The PS3 was supposed to launch in the "Spring of 2006". Now we're looking at a November launch at the earliest.

In fact, looking at the article a bit closer, Sony doesn't have model numbers, mock-ups, or demo machines while Toshiba is releasing a laptop with HD-DVD drive in the UK this month.

So in this case, I'm not sure how Apple could release laptops with Blu-Ray drives this year when it doesn't even look like Sony is ready to launch them.

As I've said in other threads, I expect new MacBook Pros from Apple at WWDC in August. If Sony isn't able to deliver a laptop with a Blu-Ray drive until 'around September' at the earliest, I don't expect Apple to have them in August.

[Lust]

Originally posted by Fran441
Just glanced at that article, which predates the PS3 delay, and Sony expects those Vaio laptops to ship, 'around September'. The PS3 was supposed to launch in the "Spring of 2006". Now we're looking at a November launch at the earliest.

In fact, looking at the article a bit closer, Sony doesn't have model numbers, mock-ups, or demo machines while Toshiba is releasing a laptop with HD-DVD drive in the UK this month.

So in this case, I'm not sure how Apple could release laptops with Blu-Ray drives this year when it doesn't even look like Sony is ready to launch them.

As I've said in other threads, I expect new MacBook Pros from Apple at WWDC in August. If Sony isn't able to deliver a laptop with a Blu-Ray drive until 'around September' at the earliest, I don't expect Apple to have them in August.

Personally, I'm hoping for January

[Fran441]

On the Blu-Ray front, Sony announced likely European prices for the PS3 console to be between 499 and 599 Euros (between $612 and $734 in US dollars) and stated that the reason for the PS3 launch was:

due to the finalizing of digital rights management for the Blu-Ray standard

If the DRM for Blu-Ray still isn't standard yet, there's even more reason to expect that Apple won't have a Mac with a Blu-Ray drive out this year.

[Trendannoyer]

you KNOW you shouldnt believe EVERYTHING you read on the internet.

SONY did NOT invent CD as is implied in the above post (and swallowed by the posters following as TRUTH)

PHILLIPS are the inventers of CD FACT do a search look it up etc.


i personally hope blue ray wins out, mainly on capacity, i dont care WHO invented it.

[slughead]

I don't think Apple will adopt any new format until it gets established.

The PS3 will probably make blue-ray the dominant new format, even though there are better alternatives coming out soon--maybe sooner. That'd be fine with me, despite my cynacism. Like the DVD burners, I wont get one until Netflix starts renting blue-ray disks exclusively .

DVD has always been good enough for me, but look at me, I still rip music in Mp3 @ 320kbps.

[hmurchison]

The Sony Philips partnership was very fruitful regarding their collaboration for the CD.

Sony was and is still an optical dynamo. Philips knows about perceptual encoders more than anyone.

Sony had the delivery mechanism chops and Philips had the software. Mix the two together and you have a hit.

They competed directly with DCC and Minidisc and once again Sony displayed mastery in Optics whilst Philips showed mastery in encoding (PASC was known to be superior to ATRAC)

[Fran441]

you KNOW you shouldnt believe EVERYTHING you read on the internet.

SONY did NOT invent CD as is implied in the above post (and swallowed by the posters following as TRUTH)

I never said they invented the CD, I merely listed formats that Sony was *involved* in. Here's part of that key line in my post:

Failed formats Sony was involved in:

The mention about the CD came under that list as a success Sony was involved in. I never said it was only a Sony format or that Sony invented the CD. I did, however, mention that it was the last really successful media type that they were involved in that is still being used widely today.

I also pointed out in a subsequent post that I was not just talking about Sony exclusive formats. I'm not sure if people are just skimming my posts or if I wasn't clear enough, but I never tried to say or imply that the above list of formats were all Sony exclusive (although some like the UMD format are).

[marzetta7]

Originally posted by Fran441
On the Blu-Ray front, Sony announced likely European prices for the PS3 console to be between 499 and 599 Euros (between $612 and $734 in US dollars) and stated that the reason for the PS3 launch was:

If the DRM for Blu-Ray still isn't standard yet, there's even more reason to expect that Apple won't have a Mac with a Blu-Ray drive out this year.

I figured you'd post this information, see here

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=15937

Just glanced at that article, which predates the PS3 delay, and Sony expects those Vaio laptops to ship, 'around September'. The PS3 was supposed to launch in the "Spring of 2006". Now we're looking at a November launch at the earliest.

In fact, looking at the article a bit closer, Sony doesn't have model numbers, mock-ups, or demo machines while Toshiba is releasing a laptop with HD-DVD drive in the UK this month.

So in this case, I'm not sure how Apple could release laptops with Blu-Ray drives this year when it doesn't even look like Sony is ready to launch them.

As I've said in other threads, I expect new MacBook Pros from Apple at WWDC in August. If Sony isn't able to deliver a laptop with a Blu-Ray drive until 'around September' at the earliest, I don't expect Apple to have them in August.

And because YOU expect the MacBook Pros to SHIP in August, this is true? We never know what Apple plans to do. You never know if Apple will just plan on announcing Blu-ray capable MacBook Pros in August and ship them in October or something. Moreover, if you are trying to get technical per dates of articles, here's one that post dates the official PS3 delay which I believe occured on March 15th. In addition, this is a bit more official than the article I posted earlier, as it comes from Sony (I've added my empasis in bold)...

http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/6582

SONY ENHANCES HIGH DEFINITION EXPERIENCE WITH INTRODUCTION OF FIRST BLU-RAY DISC PRODUCTS

LAS VEGAS, March 16, 2006 - Sony Electronics today debuted its first Blu-ray Disc™ (BD) products in the U.S., along with details on suggested pricing and availability for some of the new offerings.

These next generation devices include a home player, VAIO® desktop and notebook computers, an aftermarket internal computer drive, and recordable/rewritable media. All will offer the highest-definition experience available from a five-inch optical disc.

"We're in a unique position to be unveiling a full line of HD products that capitalize on Blu-ray Disc's technological advantages," said Hideki "Dick" Komiyama, president and chief operating officer of Sony Electronics Inc. "Blu-ray Disc will set the bar for the high-definition lifestyle that consumers have been anticipating."

Headlining Sony's new product debuts are the BDP-S1 Blu-ray Disc player and the VAIO RC desktop computer. The player is targeted to ship in July for about $1,000. The VAIO PC with Blu-ray Disc will be available for about $2,300. Both the VAIO RC desktop and notebook with a Blu-ray Disc drive will be available by early summer.

In April, Sony plans to begin shipping 25GB BD-R (write once) and BD-RE (rewritable) discs for about $20 and $25 respectively. The 50GB BD-R and BD-RE dual-layer discs will come in subsequent months for about $48 and $60 respectively.

BDP-S1 Blu-ray Disc Player

The BD player is designed to deliver 1920 x 1080p output, the highest HD signal output currently available through an HDMI™ connection. The player supports various high quality video codecs, including MPEG2, MPEG4-AVC and VC1. Analog component output for 1080i has been included so people who own HD-capable televisions without HDMI can enjoy the Blu-ray Disc experience.

The new BDP-S1 model is compatible with standard DVDs with the added feature of 1080p upscaling through HDMI, which gives new life to existing DVDs libraries. Enhancing the BD entertainment experience further, BD-Java interactivity has been incorporated, allowing for the design of advanced interactive features.

The BDP-S1 player offers uncompressed multi-channel linear PCM digital audio output via HDMI, delivering optimum surround sound to an HDMI- equipped receiver. The player also has optical digital audio out and 5.1 channel decoding capability for backward compatibility with existing receivers. In addition, the unit has a separate audio circuit board, finely tuned audio components, rigid beam chassis construction, drive brackets and off center insulator feet.

This robust BD-ROM/R/RE player supports DVD playback from DVD/DVD+R/+RW encoded discs, as well as MP3 audio files and JPEG images stored on DVD+R/+RW discs.

Capture, Edit and Burn HD with VAIO BD-Enabled PCs

The VAIO RC Series computers, Sony's first Blu-ray desktops, combine BD recording technology with high-octane performance, allowing aspiring moviemakers and videographers to capture and burn their high-definition content.

Consumers can edit high-definition footage with a comprehensive suite of software applications. They can then archive and share it on Sony high-capacity BD-R and BD-RE Blu-ray Discs or downconverted to standard definition DVD+R/+RW dual layer discs, capitalizing on flexibility in storage, playback and recording.

"These new VAIO PCs marry eye-catching aesthetics with powerful cutting-edge technology," said Komiyama. "Our new Blu-ray enabled computers will empower people to unleash their creativity and experience entertainment in a whole new realm."

The VAIO RC Series will be shipped with a 25GB Blank BD-RE (rewritable) blank disc.

Aftermarket Internal Blu-ray Disc Recordable/Rewritable Drive

The BWU-100A, an aftermarket internal Blu-ray Disc drive for computer use, will support recording of 25GB and 50GB BD-R (write once) or BD-RE (rewritable) discs at 2X max speed. It is capable of burning a full 25GB disc in about 30 minutes. The drive will also support recording of standard single layer 4.7GB DVD+R/+RW, Double/Dual Layer 8.5GB DVD+R, DVD-RAM and CD-R/-RW media, making it a true all-in-one "tri-mode" recorder/reader.

The new drive can be installed in a standard half-height computer bay with a parallel ATAPI (P-ATA) interface. Comprehensive authoring software will be included for capturing, editing, and burning high-definition personal content captured by an HDV format camcorder, keeping the video in native 1080i HD format for playback on a Blu-ray Disc player. Video can also be "down-converted" to standard-definition (SD) resolution for burning onto a DVD disc.

The BD drive will be available this year with pricing to be announced prior to product shipments.

AccuCORE Quality with Blu-ray Disc Media

Sony's AccuCORE® technology, which was integrated into recordable DVD discs more than a year ago, has been re-engineered for Blu-ray Disc media to deliver enhanced accuracy, compatibility and reliability.

The BD recordable and rewritable media offer:

Scratch Guard - hard coating that resists scratches, dust and static;

Archival Reliability - special material design that prevents data and image corruption and deterioration to ensure quality playback;

Stable Writing - a uniform and precise cover layer that reduces fluctuation as the disc spins; and

Temperature Durability - for the disc structure helps prevent warping during severe changes in temperature and humidity.

Blu-ray Disc is an ideal format for recording and sharing personal content captured by an HDV format camcorder. The original high definition content can be recorded to BD-R or BD-RE discs and played by a compatible Blu-ray Disc player connected to a TV, or a BD-equipped personal computer.

So, I'm not sure where the engadget article came up with the update information about them shipping around September. It would be interesting to know why or how they got that information though. In any case, I don't think it is necessary to nit-pick dates and times when even if these do come out in September, Apple has four more--as I would think they are already planning on how to get a Blu-ray drive in their machine--months (especially during the holiday shopping season) to get a Blu-ray player in either a laptop or desktop machine. I think it is definitely feasible, especially given Apple's knack of differentiating themselves from other computer companies in terms of quality and new technology. I think this would just add to the luster of a new Mac. And again, let's not forget that Sony is not the only one making and shipping Blu-ray drives, so who knows where Apple may get them from--Pioneer? Panasonic? Any of the other numerous consumer electronics companies in the BDA?--and in what time table. Apple may suprise us all, yet another quality that I love about them. Granted, too, dissapointment has stemmed from Apple announcements or lack thereof, but I always have hope! And given announcements from the BDA, the feasiblilty of that hope is looking better and better for a Mac equipped with a Blu-ray drive.

[hmurchison]

What's the point of Apple adding an expensive Blu Ray player to an already expensive laptop?

The screen size of a MBP even at 17" means that the extra resolution of HD is rather superfluous. With no HDMI output you can't push it to a HDTV set.

What's needed are HD DVD or Blu Ray recorders. We'll know more about Apple's preference come NAB 2006 in a few weeks. The assumption being made is that Apple is keen on Blu Ray and that it'll be in Macs but the facts today show that Apple is further along with HD DVD tools than Blu Ray tools. The next version of DVD Studio Pro will show us exactly what's up Apple's alley. My guess is that we see both HD DVD authoring and Blu Ray authoring. I think both formats will be BTO options.

Apple joined the BDA because they support both formats and they were already members of the DVD Forum. Thus the assumption was that they chose Blu Ray despite them clearly stating that they support both formats.

[Fran441]

And because YOU expect the MacBook Pros to SHIP in August, this is true? We never know what Apple plans to do. You never know if Apple will just plan on announcing Blu-ray capable MacBook Pros in August and ship them in October or something.

This forum is for speculation, of course no one is going to get everything right all of the time, especially where Apple is concerned.

I make my predcitions based on Apple's history, the delay of WWDC from May to August, and looking at the when the last Power Macs and PowerBooks were updated, it makes logical sense to me that Apple will update them at WWDC and demo them running Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard.

Reading the various articles posted above and other general information about Blu-Ray, I just don't believe it will be possible for Apple to release a machine with a Blu-Ray drive this year. Could I be wrong? Sure. But I've tried to outline, with some articles with supporting thoughts, the reasons why I don't believe it will be possible for a Mac with a Blu-Ray drive in August.

Would it be an added bonus to have a high definition drive in a new Mac? Of course. I'd love to see it as I'm probably going to be in the market for a new Mac in the next 6-12 months. I'd also like to see 2 GB of RAM standard on the new towers, 512 MB of VRAM on their Graphics Cards, 3 GHz+ Dual Processor Intel chips with dual cores, etc. all for less than $1500 but it doesn't mean it's going to happen.