what is your favorite browser in OsX??

[thegelding]

i really like chimera's speed and looks and especially tabbed browsing, but too many times links and such don't work....netscape 6.2.2 is ok (most pages render well and links work), IE 5.0 is ok (all pages render well, but it is slow slow slow)....have yet to try mozilla and omniweb....is there one (1) browser yet that really fly and render all pages and links in Os X???? thanks....looking to clean up my dock from the three browsers in it to hopefully only one...g

[EmAn]

Well I still mostly use IE, but I love Mozilla's speed compared to IE.

FWIW, I dumped Internet Explorer as my default browser back when OmniWeb 4.1 sneaky peek builds started rolling in. Internet Explorer is the worst of the "big three" in my opinion and the only times I load it are to view pages that use Microsoft's Windows Media Player (because MS put some crufty code in the plugin to make it so it *only* works in IE... typical monopolistic practices).

In my experience, Mozilla clearly beats Internet Explorer for speed, especially on any pages with tables. However, Mozilla still suffers from a painfully slow and clunky user interface. Open a new window... wait two seconds. Open the preferences... wait two second. Ouch.

OmniWeb also usually beats IE for speed. However, this experience comes from using it on a dual-processor Mac. OW is threaded *much* better than IE, taking advantage of both CPUs for rendering. OmniWeb's interface works like a dream. It couldn't be much better -- it is a true Mac OS X app in every respect. It wins out over Mozilla in every aspect with regards to the UI. However, OmniWeb has real problems with most CSS, most DHTML, and a bit of JavaScript. Also, because OmniWeb uses an NSView object for every single element, it gets very slow when rendering large and complex tables. Even with that NSView kludge (which is being completey re-written and streamlined for OmniWeb 5), OW is still faster than IE on my dual 500.

Mozilla:
+ Fast, accurate page rendering
+ renders CSS and DHTML very well
+ tabbed browsing
+ themes (this could be a '-', though, as it is another example of how it fails to adhere to UI guidelines)
- slow interface
- impossible to customize the toolbar without rewriting some XML code.
- awful downloading mechanism
- completely freezes up when holding down the mouse button. click a menu or drag the scroll bar and all activity grinds to a halt.
- not threaded to take advantage of dual processors
- bloated! bloated! bloated! Mozilla is truly the "Swiss Army Knife" of browsers and tosses in everything but the kitchen sink.
- can't remove the bloat and opt for "browser only"
- Aqua elements are "faked" and don't operate as they should.
- uses fake, custom-drawn contextual menus
- *very* slow to launch -- it takes the same time to launch in OSX on my dual 500 as it takes to launch under OS9 on my 604e 250. WTF??
- does not make use of services in Mac OS X -- that means no spell check or any other service goodies
- does not properly respect the Dock's location and does not spawn a new window when clicked on
- some parts are extremely difficult to customize -- for example, to change Mozilla to you your default e-mail client instead of the built-in one, you have to hunt down and edit some code in a *.js file.

OmniWeb:
+ real, native Aqua interface that properly uses all Aqua elements
+ natively uses Quartz-rendered anti-aliased text
+ excellent toolbar -- quick to respond, easy to customize, extremely customizable, and looks pretty too
+ excellent download manager
+ very VERY threaded -- this means it can be rendering several pages at once and not skip a beat. also, this means that the whole app won't freeze up when you click the mouse, unlike Mozilla and Internet Explorer.
+ fully utilizes multiprocessor Macs (because it is threaded so thoroughly)
+ fast launch time -- initial launch is much faster than Mozilla and subsequent launches after the first launch are usually several seconds faster
+ uses services in Mac OS X -- I live for services! Mac OS X's spell check service is a godsend.
+ has an excellent privacy filter mechanism
+ filters ad banners
+ uses an auto-update mechanism to periodically check for newer versions
+ takes advantage of Mac OS X's speech recognition system for disabled users (or just for fun)
+ has a built-in source code editor with colorized syntax checking and highlighting
+ respects the Dock
+ has a feature to automatically check specified bookmarks for changes and displays the number of changes sites in an overlay on the icon in the Dock.
+ browser windows use proxies in the title bar
- slower page rendering than Mozilla
- renders CSS and DHTML very poorly
- renders some tables incorrectly
- no tabbed browsing yet (planned for 5.0)

Overall, OmniWeb "feels" much more like a true Mac OS X app. Mozilla, on the other hand, feels like a hacked port of a Windows app. True, Mozilla may be faster on the large pages and renders advanced code much better, but the browsing experience is far superior with OmniWeb. Whenever I do come across a site I need to view that OmniWeb either won't load or won't render properly, I just temporarily fire up Mozilla for it.

My vote: OmniWeb.

[ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]

[ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>

[captain swing]

i have been using OS X since early betas, and the most recent version of iCab is the first app to bring the whole system down. so omniweb at the top, iCab at the bottom.
swing

[spotbug]

Yesterday I switched from Chimera to Mozilla. Chimera has some annoying problems and would crash a lot. With Silk, Mozilla is basically Chimera on steroids.

[Horned_Frog]

Interesting...you guys find IE slow? To me it is by far the fastest (though maybe you guys have a high speed connection where I do not). I find OmniWeb just too slow, and Mozilla/Netscape are OK, not quite as fast as IE, but they do not load chat rooms, always telling me I need a non-existant plug-in.

Actually, I tend to have classic running in OSX and often use IE for OS9...

[Nonsuch]

Omniweb is my browser of choice; my main beef with it is that it's often dog-slow, especially with lots of windows open. The beauty of native Quartz rendering is worth a little speed hit. Chimera is looking good, but it's too unstable to rely on quite yet.

[EmAn]

[quote]Originally posted by Horned_Frog:
<strong>Interesting...you guys find IE slow? To me it is by far the fastest (though maybe you guys have a high speed connection where I do not). I find OmniWeb just too slow, and Mozilla/Netscape are OK, not quite as fast as IE, but they do not load chat rooms, always telling me I need a non-existant plug-in.

Actually, I tend to have classic running in OSX and often use IE for OS9...</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree about Omniweb being slow (cable modem w/ Airport). It's about the same speed as IE, if not slower at times. Even the latest of the Sneaky Peak/betas don't impress me, but they're much better than older versions of Omniweb.

[thegelding]

well then...when omniweb 5.0 comes out with tabbed browsing, it may become the first browser i actually pay for...thanks for all the responses...g

[rogue27]

OmniWeb is my favorite. I only use IE anymore for pages with CSS, DHTML, certain JavaScript, or Windows Media Player files.

OmniWeb seems faster for some pages, slower for others, but it looks the best and I like the interface.

IE may redeem itself when the update comes out, but for now I prefer to only use it when I have to.

Opera has potential, but I don't use it much at the moment. I'll wait for some updates.

Mozilla is decent, supports everything well, but I don't like the interface much. I only use it for testing pages I've created.

[JDraden]

I haven't used Omniweb for a while now, has the 10.1.5 update (to the RagePro video cards) affected the scrolling smoothness or page-rendering in Omniweb?

[EmAn]

[quote]Originally posted by rogue27:
<strong>
Mozilla is decent, supports everything well, but I don't like the interface much. I only use it for testing pages I've created.</strong><hr></blockquote>

So just download a different theme.

[CubeDude]

[quote] I haven't used Omniweb for a while now, has the 10.1.5 update (to the RagePro video cards) affected the scrolling smoothness or page-rendering in Omniweb?
<hr></blockquote>

I'd say it has, on my Cube.

Back on topic, OmniWeb is my browser of choice, with Mozilla as my backup when a page won't load. But in a few months Chimera will probably become my main browser as soon as the bugs are worked out and more features are added.

[faxthat]

I use IE 90% of the time because of its speed. I use Netscape once in a while when I hit a site that baffles IE.

It's interesting to see what people are having luck using. I may switch. But I need the latest version of Flash and that rules out most of the newer browsers.

TiBook 667 (DVI) 768 Mb ram runnng on 10.1.5.

[applenut]

Internet Explorer is the best. It's relatively fast, stable, full featured and you can count on it working without a hitch on nearly every site. very important when doing transactions on the internet. I would just not trust the others yet when buying things or whatever because they always either crash or run into scripting and compatibility problems.

Bring on IE 5.5


Chimera is very nice though. Crashes too often on sites I go to though

[murbot]

I was starting to wonder if I was the only guy in the world who actually likes Internet Explorer. Never had a reason to try any others.

[ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: murbot ]</p>

[glurx]

Mozilla lately. I've used OmniWeb 4.1 a lot too. If OmniWeb would just adopt the Tab feature from Mozilla I'd be very happy.

[agent302]

I've shied away from IE since the initial release of OS X (which my make me biased, because IE 5.1 Preview in 10.0.x was **** ). It's gotten better, but pop-up windows and ads kill me. Also, IE seems to forget clicks a lot, so I have to reclick on a link when it decides not to load.

I've been using Omniweb fairly exclusively since April of 2001, and it's really all the little things that it does right. Blocking pop-ups (I know Mozilla does this, but Omniweb did it first), the only browser I know of the blocks ads, Spelling services! (I agree with starfleetx, it's the greatest thing ever, sometimes I even write papers in Textedit instead AppleWorks just so it'll check my spelling as I type). Also, the great use of drawers and sheets, great preference options (like easy cookie management and the ability to have Omniweb pretend it's IE, which is great for stupid websites that think OmniWeb can't handle it's features, like iTools), and a really intuitive way of handling the browser history.

Now, I'll grant that OW renders some stuff incorrectly. But it renders most pages beautifully, and until 10.1.5, it was easily the best looking browser for text rendering, and it's speed as very very tolerable. For the few sites that won't work under OW for any reason, I use Mozilla (and will probably switch to Chimera as my backup browser when it's more full featured). I can't use Moz full time b/c, while it renders quickly, I have to again agree with starfleet the slowness (and ugliness and inconsistencies) of the Moz UI negates any speed advantages.

So, basically, IE offers nothing that OW and Moz don't. I see no reason to keep using, and I think it would be nice if Apple bundled another browser in addition to IE with Jaguar (similar to how both IE and Netscape come with OS 9). I'm all for options.

[Addison]

I have tried them all,

Netscape
Omniweb
Chimera
Mozilla
IE

Mozilla is the fastest, Chimera is the best looking, but the only one I can really use almost all the time is IE.

Try looking at <a href="http://www.jvc.co.uk" target="_blank">http://www.jvc.co.uk</a> and follow the products link. I think only two of the above browsers can render that page correctly. However IE isn't perfect by any means, it can't render the page <a href="https://www.dbai.dnb.com/uk/en/dbai_frame.html" target="_blank">https://www.dbai.dnb.com/uk/en/dbai_frame.html</a> correctly, the user ID box is in the wrong place. It also won't work with <a href="http://www.equifax.co.uk" target="_blank">http://www.equifax.co.uk</a> the rollovers don't work.

These three sites represent three very good test sites for browsers. Chimera will only work on 2 out of three for instance.

[torifile]

I'm almost exclusively OW now. I always have IE ready just in case I hit a page that OW can't handle (which is seeming to happen more and more lately... Many cell phone companies use DHTML/javascript that OW can't handle). I love the interface, esp. the favorites toolbar that allow you to organize your bookmarks into folders. Services are really nice too. AA text is purty. (Anyone know when IE will get AA text?) So OW all the way.

edit: I forgot about the popup ad blocking and the privacy settings that keep those damned annoying flashing ads off my screen. BIG points for that.

[ 06-08-2002: Message edited by: torifile ]</p>

[Escher]

[quote]Originally posted by agent302:
<strong>It's gotten better, but pop-up windows and ads kill me. Also, IE seems to forget clicks a lot, so I have to reclick on a link when it decides not to load.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I used IE full time until about two months ago, when popup and -under ads (despite disabling scripting for the offending sites) started driving me nuts. OmniWeb was the obvious choice. It's sophisticated ad- and banner-blocking features are unparalleled. But as soon as I discovered <a href="http://chimera.mozdev.org/" target="_blank">Chimera/Navigator</a>, I wcouldn't go back to any of the other browsers. Chimera is a brilliant example of simplicity. Unlike browswers that came before it, Chimera is a pure joy to use. I now download nightly builds of Chimera, and the progress is flabbergasting.

I don't visit a lot of secure or heavily scripted sites, so those features are less important to me. When I do need better compatibility, I start up IE or OmniWeb (which I paid for, out of principle and in support of its ad-busting stance). I'd rank my browsers as follows, in terms of time used:

1. Chimera, because it's fast and pleasing
2. IE, because everything works with it
3. OmniWeb, because it kicks ads' ass

I'm really curious to see what the final Chimera will look like. The big update to IE this summer will undoubtedly have an impact on its competition, which has been catching up fast. And sometime next year, there will be OmniWeb 5 as well. Long live the open market, filled with competition!

Escher

PS: I refuse to run Netscape and Mozilla because they are not standalone browsers. I can't stand these gargantuan pieces of bloatware that provide a bazillion functions I will never use.

PS2/rant: And what the **** is the deal with clicking on links in IE and them not opening? I've seen this god-damn annoying bug on some Windows version of IE too.

[His Dudeness]

[quote]Originally posted by Escher:
<strong>


PS2/rant: And what the **** is the deal with clicking on links in IE and them not opening? I've seen this god-damn annoying bug on some Windows version of IE too. </strong><hr></blockquote>


I have noticed this problem too for the longest time. The only reason I use IE is for banking at suntrust.com. I prefer Mozilla 1.0 for it's speed. I love Omniweb, but it's slower than the rest simply because it uses no cache. Once Omniweb 5 comes out, that will be my default browser.

[EmAn]

[quote]Originally posted by Xidius:
<strong>It doesnt really matter, Apple is working on iWeb which will be integrated into the finder, rendering us able to surf web pages from finder windows.

[ 06-08-2002: Message edited by: Xidius ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

I really hope so.

[agent302]

[quote]Originally posted by EmAn:
<strong>

I really hope so.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I really hope not. There's no good reason to not just aid the development of OW or Chimera.

Also, I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed the missing-clicks problem in IE. For me, it's unacceptable.

[ 06-08-2002: Message edited by: agent302 ]</p>

[Eugene]

Mozilla, by far.

[Gastropod]

hrrrm.... folks here don't like iCab?

It is by far my favorite browser.
I used to use iCab on an old 603e PPC computer. It would load pages in a fraction of the time Netscape took. Now under OS X it has been stable for long time. It is very rare that I come across a page that doesn't work correctly in iCab.
Someone said iCab would crash their system.... I have never experienced this.
iCab can also not show those annoying pop up/under ads.
That and it is kinda cute with a yellow cab putt'n around.

[speechgod]

Chimera, aka Navigator. 'Nough said.

[MacMatt]

iWeb , I Can Almost See It Now ....

[Bogie]

Omniweb and Chimera, neither is ready for prime time but both are excellent. Mozilla has too many GUI issues and is slow at everything but rendering – try opening the prefs. Netscape is a bad version of Mozilla. IE, IE sucks.

I am all about Cocoa or Carbon coded to take advantage of the same principles, Omniweb and Chimera show off and use OS X the others simply do not.

[His Dudeness]

[quote]Originally posted by Bogie:
<strong> IE, IE sucks.

</strong><hr></blockquote>


Why yes, yes it does. In a big way.

[Nebagakid]

OmniWeb

heh, thinks it is spelled incorrectly. I like the Services part. And how the text looks so nice. I like how it blocks the ads. And how its toolbar is customizable.

I like OmniWeb, and when it is not near, I cower in fear, and my heart begins to melt, like a delicate hollow glass orb, to the dock, :confused:
Also, wouldn't iWeb make Apple be more and more microsoftian? Seems like a problem to me.
They will knock off OmniWeb, no way around it, just like Watson! <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

[Stroszek]

[quote]Originally posted by faxthat:
<strong>But I need the latest version of Flash and that rules out most of the newer browsers.</strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> I would think that would rule out most of the older browsers, not the new ones. Why con't you just go to Macromedia's webpage and download a plug-in? Forgive me if this is a stupid question, I use OS 9, so I know nothing about X browsers...

[senjaz]

OmniWeb is my browser of choice, and I have been following all the sneakypeek builds. It's lack of CSS element positioning is the main problem with it, but it works for almost everywhere I want to go. It's interface is the nicest to interact with and the page rendering is great. I also like the use of Aqua interface elements in HTML forms. Oh and I love how it spell checks the contents of forms too.

It's a sad fact that many pages were created with only IE in mind and do not display correctly on other browsers. IE's CSS implementation is flawed and does not follow the W3 specification. So even Mozilla with its near full CSS implementation won't render all pages because of this.

I keep a copy of Mozilla, IE and iCab on my system for testing my web pages. I code to HTML v4 and XHTML v1 spec, and if it doesn't display correctly in IE then that's not my problem.

[ 06-10-2002: Message edited by: senjaz ]</p>

[peve]

after dumping netscape 4.x for good i used ie.
because it wuz fast and reliable (three years ago i never would have put that micro$oft dirt on my hd - what have i become?).

netscape 6.x was about 15 minutes on my hd (don't you crash on me the first time i start you, b!tch!)

after waiting a long time for mozilla - i am finaly very pleased with speed and rendering.

but as a webdesigner/publisher i have to go with the heard and use ie (at least for checking my stuff).

and yes: i noticed the plus of speed since i got dsl.

[loneranger]

[quote]Originally posted by peve:
<strong>

but as a webdesigner/publisher i have to go with the heard and use ie (at least for checking my stuff).

and yes: i noticed the plus of speed since i got dsl.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually, you'll probably find that Moz 1.0 renders closer to IE on the PC than IE 5.1 on the Mac does to IE on the PC, especially for DHTML.

Moz really is hands down the better browser. It has support for a multitude of web standards that OW is years away from supporting (CSS 2 will probably be implemented in Moz before CSS 1 is completed in OW just to give you an idea), behaves better and speeds past IE, and in general, is incredibly stable. I think you'll find that in the next year or so, sites are really going to jump in complexity as less and less sites support Netscape 4.x in all its crappiness, and this will free them to add in features that only IE and Moz currently support. This is when we'll be glad Moz exists, and it will really shine.

Plus, tab browsing, especially for reading forums like these, really is teh win. Command + click on all the threads I want to read, they load in the background as a tab, and I can switch between them easily without cluttering my screen real estate.

[ 06-10-2002: Message edited by: loneranger ]</p>

[Scott F.]

For a *short* time... my fav was Chimera. I say *short* time because for some reason Chimera wants to "quit" on startup ever since about 3-4 versions ago. If it were still able to run (not sure why it won't) I'd still be using it.

OmniWeb is not compatable enough for me yet... yes it's fast, but there are too many sites it cannot handle well yet... some not at all.

For me... I still use IE because it is easily a one-stop browser. It handles all of my needs for now until either OW gets more complete or until I can figure-out why Chimera is not happy logged-in as me. If I log in as a guest or different user, it works fine.

- Scott

[Bozo the Clown]

Mozilla. Yes , the interface sucks, but it gets almost all web pages right, it's faster than Omniweb, tabbed browsing freakin' rocks, and it doesn't bog down on big pages like IE.

With Silk, I'm pretty happy with it. I was using Omniweb for a while, but it's just too dog slow, and I'd periodically have to use IE for some pages.

[graphiteman]

iCab. All the time.

What does everyone here have against iCab? It runs machines from 68k to present, it's small and fast, and it renders more pages correctly than OmniWeb.

[quote]Originally posted by agent302:
<strong>...Blocking pop-ups (I know Mozilla does this, but Omniweb did it first), the only browser I know of the blocks ads ... and the ability to have Omniweb pretend it's IE, which is great for stupid websites that think OmniWeb can't handle it's features, like iTools)...</strong><hr></blockquote>

And I should point out that iCab did this about 2 years before OmniWeb. Plus, iCab offers far more powerful filters than OmniWeb.

[jeromba]

1/ Omniweb : Best 'X' browser.
2/ Chimera : Fast baby steps
3/ IE : If you want to target 95% of the web audience, you will need it if you are webdesigner.

[dmgeist]

I'd say Its a toss up between Mozilla and Icab. I had problems D/L ing
with chimera,and it crashed( being a beta and all). Mozilla has nice
eye candy stuff, and icab has the little happy, sad face in the corner to
tell me if a page is naughty or nice. Mozilla loads pages a little faster
than icab but icab has a little more functionality.

And maybe we should keep the browser thing off the system side, that
just seems unsecure to me in a paraniod kind of way, he he...and a little
winblows like.....