Apple co-founder believes iPod has about run its course

[Johnny Mozzarella]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

What bridges, specifically?

Why do you think Jobs declined to write the forward to Woz's last book?
He is still technically an Apple employee and yet he criticizes it's management regularly in the press.

[satchmo]

Woz is at heart, a geek to the core. Which is why he's an Android type of guy. Mainstream folks don't need to tinker and hence why the iPhone is a success.

With respect to the iPod dying. He's simply suggesting the slow down and saturation point. Nothing people don't already know. Nothing to get riled up about really.

[minderbinder]

Originally Posted by Celemourn

That is definitely an established BS technique, but just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they aren't really out to get you. The fact is that the world has justifiably established a stereotype for mac users as fanatics. Mac fanatics are real, and in the decades between 1984 and now, they made up the most visible, and certainly the noisiest, segment of the user base. That perception will only change as more average, boring people start using macs in average, boring ways. Only when it is observed that people who don't really care ALSO use macs, will the stereotype die. He may be wrong on some or all of the points he was quoted on, but he was definitely right that the vitriol would flow from the fanatics. We see proof in this thread that it has.

I don't disagree that there are zealots out there.

I just disagree with the notion of preemptively trying to paint anyone who disagrees with him as a zealot.

The guy gave an opinion, and people disagree with that opinion. Nothing more.

Is it really impossible for anyone to say something positive about apple, or something negative about those who compete with or disagree with apple?

Really, there's no way an opinion that is on Apple's side can be valid, well reasoned, and unbiased? Smells like that BS technique to me.

And you seem overly paranoid saying the response here is "VITRIOL". With only a couple exceptions, the responses don't seem angry at all - when someone just says "I think he's wrong" and explains why, that's perfectly reasonable.

[Celemourn]

that would rock.

C

[cnocbui]

I think the Woz was being mischievously humourous for the most part, interspersed with some serious comments.

I love the idea of the next big thing just arriving on Steve's desk without him having been aware of it being developed!

[Celemourn]

Originally Posted by minderbinder

I don't disagree that there are zealots out there.

I just disagree with the notion of preemptively trying to paint anyone who disagrees with him as a zealot.

The guy gave an opinion, and people disagree with that opinion. Nothing more.

Is it really impossible for anyone to say something positive about apple, or something negative about those who compete with or disagree with apple?

Really, there's no way an opinion that is on Apple's side can be valid, well reasoned, and unbiased? Smells like that BS technique to me.

And you seem overly paranoid saying the response here is "VITRIOL". With only a couple exceptions, the responses don't seem angry at all - when someone just says "I think he's wrong" and explains why, that's perfectly reasonable.

Perhaps vitriol was a poor choice of wording. Rude dismissal might have been a better phrase. The ad hominem attacks are what I'm thinking of. Most of those have been without any support at all. And just to keep things straight, Apple rocks.

Just because we feel justified in whatever opinion we have doesn't mean we aren't biased.

[410sa]

Woz is eating a bunch of sour grapes, especially regarding his comments concerning a Web 2.0 meltdown.
He backed away twenty years ago and essentially rendered himself irrelevant.

[enzos]

Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande

1) I pity his child.

2) How many people still care what Woz has to say?

3) iPod will not die until it is replaced. The only product actively replacing it is being produced by Apple, so I'm not sure any point relative to this is even worth bothering with. Music products are evolving and Apple is leading the charge.

4) He underestimates Jobs' godlike future powers.

5) I pity his child.

On the contrary, I think Woz would be a great Dad. And Woz Jr. would get to love his/her silly name.

It's always worth listening to him even where he is so clearly off-beam. Woz is an incurable gadget geek with great talent (runs on the board &c.)... he's the other side - the Feature Creature side - of the Apple equation from aesthetics, design and simple-to-use functionality.

The rest of your post is self-evidently correct.

[minderbinder]

Originally Posted by Celemourn

Perhaps vitriol was a poor choice of wording. Rude dismissal might have been a better phrase. The ad hominem attacks are what I'm thinking of.

I don't agree with rude or ad hominem for the most part either. Generally the posts here have been simple disagreement with his statement, with reasons given.

[rtdunham]

Originally Posted by Kasper

You insulted my editor's credentials and suggested he made a poor interpretation of Woz's quotes, which "is why journalists go to school and bloggers are not journalists."

Before this you said/I said gets more unpleasant than Woz's comments, the TRUTH squad is gonna step in (I appointed myself)

ITEM #1:
It's worth noting that Wozniak actually says nothing of the sort in the article.
THE RULING: Yeah, really he did say something "of the sort," if not precisely. "Nothing of the sort is not accurate. Decision: to K.

ITEM #2:
This is why journalists go to school and bloggers are not journalists.
THE RULING: Note these statements need not be mutually exclusive. But yes, journalists go to school because that's where they're taught how to stick to the facts, to write clearly and accurately, how to attribute quotes, to distinguish fact from opinion, and so on, (sometimes) ad nauseum. Bloggers need not be journalists. Usually aren't. But the best of them can practice the same skill set. Decision: First half of statement: TRUE; second half: split decision.

ITEM #3:
K says poster said K's editor made a "poor interpretation". Poster DID argue interpretation was wrong, which could be interpreted (uh-oh!) as saying it was poorly done. THE RULING: poster's misuse of "imply" undermines his credentials for making such a judgement. Decision: True, but inocuous.

It occurs to me that the same obsessiveness that has K pursuing the defense of his editor is also an asset when applied to getting facts right. So that's a good thing.

Can we now all shake keyboards and just get along?

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella

Why do you think Jobs declined to write the forward to Woz's last book?

I figured a lot of it was that it discussed parts of the past that he didn't want repeated. Like when Jobs duped Woz out of his share of the profits for a program by lying about how much they were getting paid.

He is still technically an Apple employee and yet he criticizes it's management regularly in the press.

If he's still taking money, then maybe that's not a good idea. But I just don't see that kind of tone that you suggest is there. I do see an honest difference of opinion, but nothing that I hear or read in the tone of what he says suggests that he wants to hurt Apple or its management.

[dcorban]

Originally Posted by howiethemacguy

While I thank Steve Wozniak for helping to start Apple, I really wish he would shut up. I don't think that he says anything really useful these days.

I thought this exact thing before even reading this story. He seems to just spout random obvious things every once in a while. Who the hell is even asking for his opinion anyway? Does he have a friend of his "interview" him occasionally, then forward it to various news sites?

[Rot'nApple]

Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2

This is why journalists go to school and bloggers are not journalists.

Journalists of today are not journalists! I would love to see the grades of these "journalists" this school is producing?!

Especially when you hear about news like the AP reporter that took a story from a blogger on a leftist website and ran with it - mistake and all!

Most of todays journalists don't report, but rather gather what information they need that allows them to skew what they know to their advantage and apply to their agenda by "reporting" a story with the facts the journalist only wants you to know.

That is why I do not trust the main stream media of today on stories of a political and national security nature without also reviewing a similar write up from the other side to get the other half of the story that todays reporters conveniently leave out. Can anyone say New York Times?!

Let's not forget how photos have been "Photoshopped" for effect to aid a reporters story.
http://www.zombietime.com/reuters_photo_fraud/

[PXT]

I think that Woz should address his critics and post ten creative ideas right here. But nothing we've heard before, like the old open platform comment. He wants Apple to be challenged - let's see what he's got. Isn't there a saying "put up or shut up"?

[TBell]

I really do not follow the analogy comparing Woz to Bill Clinton. Clearly, Bill Clinton 1) had to be nice to Obama (a fellow democrat), and 2) still had to talk bad about Obama because he was trying to get his wife elected. Who knows what motivates Woz.

Originally Posted by bugsnw

Woz was a world class hardware engineer. And maybe that's as broad as his talents reach. He needs to stop commenting on all-things Apple as they make me cringe.

Woz is to Apple what Bill Clinton is to Obama. The good news is he's goofy enough and nice enough that we all give him a pass. We can all just chuckle about it and remind ourselves that he rides a segway.

I don't see a lot of Model Ts driving around and Ford really saturated that market good. Turns out people buy new technology. So Apple's goal is to keep innovating. I will buy thousands of computers and iPods and gadgets in my lifetime. Just for the fun of it.

[walshbj]

Originally Posted by TBell

I really do not follow the analogy comparing Woz to Bill Clinton. Clearly, Bill Clinton 1) had to be nice to Obama (a fellow democrat), and 2) still had to talk bad about Obama because he was trying to get his wife elected. Who knows what motivates Woz.

More like Roger Clinton to Bill Clinton. Or Billy Carter to Jimmy Carter.

[jpellino]

Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer

What's stop the man from writing for the Desktop World?

I'll tell you what? He lacks the software skills for such high level develop to pull it off. He never had them and its clear ever since the days he designed computer hardware. He's not a software engineer. He was a hardware engineer.

Well, he wrote Apple Integer BASIC on paper without a working machine or assembler... counts for something...

[minderbinder]

Originally Posted by jpellino

Well, he wrote Apple Integer BASIC on paper without a working machine or assembler... counts for something...

It's great that he could do that. But that's incredibly low level programming, completely the opposite of the high level, abstracted software coding that goes into creating apps today.

[kris.white]

iPod can't be dead yet, they just introduced shaking! (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L4CgfZUd2o)

[irnchriz]

hey, Woz is cool, like an arthritic Carebear.

The difference with the iPod compared to the 'Walkman' for example is that the walkman had no where near the change that the iPod has gone through and for this simple reason his analogy is flawed. He is very much out of touch.

Why even mention Android either? It is more a competitor to Winmo than the iPhone.

Woz is bitter and pissed that he dropped off of the Apple tree 20 years before Apple hit the big time. Poor bitter old man.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by irnchriz

The difference with the iPod compared to the 'Walkman' for example is that the walkman had no where near the change that the iPod has gone through and for this simple reason his analogy is flawed. He is very much out of touch.

The Sony did try to push the Walkman on the CD and then to digital PMP, but the formats were too different in the way you have to use the media and the sizes probably too extreme for a natural transition. Woz seems to be forgetting that the iPod has already made the transition from HDD to Flash. Everything else stated the same expect the device got smaller and lasted longer. And for the Mini to Nano the capacity was able to grow past a 6GB HDD.

The only thing that looks to be a threat to the standard iPod model is natural fusion with a cellphone, but I don't his comment was referring to that natural transition.

[irnchriz]

Originally Posted by solipsism

The Sony did try to push the Walkman on the CD and then to digital PMP, but the formats were too different in the way you have to use the media and the sizes probably too extreme for a natural transition. Woz seems to be forgetting that the iPod has already made the transition from HDD to Flash. Everything else stated the same expect the device got smaller and lasted longer. And for the Mini to Nano the capacity was able to grow past a 6GB HDD.

The only thing that looks to be a threat to the standard iPod model is natural fusion with a cellphone, but I don't his comment was referring to that natural transition.

The iPod has not changed the format or tried to push a change of format.

The format is DIGITALLY STORED MUSIC. There has been NO change to the format.

The iPod and other digital playback devices will, at least for a long time to come, be relevant as cellphones incur additional costs and also general battery life issues compared to dedicated devices.

PLUS, Apple have made inroads to converged media / cellphone devices already. Maybe you have head of the iPhone??

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by irnchriz

The format is DIGITALLY STORED MUSIC. There has been NO change to the format.

I'm referring to a physical URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_format"]media format[/URL], which should have been obvious to the reader since I clearly mentioned Tape, CD, HDD, and Flash. This change in PHYSICAL MEDIA FORMATS has allowed Apple to advance their platform without having to buy new music because the RECORDING FORMATS haven't changed, and if they do a simple codec addition is all that is needed. The point is that this makes the current PMPs much more future-forward than PMPs of the past.

PLUS, Apple have made inroads to converged media / cellphone devices already. Maybe you have head of the iPhone??

I just mentioned the natural fusion of the iPod into a cellphone is the only way the iPod model will dwindle so why would you think that I am not aware of the iPhone. This is/will happen across the board as other cellphone vendors go the same route, so i specifically didn't mention the iPhone as this is an industry wide transition, not one that only Apple is privy to.

[MacTel]

Originally Posted by Matthew Yohe

Sure, as a music player, many many people do have a flavor of iPod. But the market is wide open again for the Touch/iPhone platform. Getting a Touch in everyone's hands will send a lot more business Apple's way than music ever did.

Exactly!

Woz is a has-been. I don't mean that disrespectfully either. He's just isn't with a hip, happening, or cutting edge company to make these kinds of comments. I respect someone from Microsoft making these statements more than I do Woz. Sony or Dell even.

Tell me what consumer hot-selling product Woz has brought to the world in the last 2 decades? Name one.

[applebook]

The iPod will be just fine in the foreseeable future, as it moves completely to solid-state memory. However, once Apple reaches its limit on how small it can be, and once memory capacities are high enough for most users, the iPod will need to change dramatically because every consumer on the planet will already own several of them.

Apple needs to give people reason to "upgrade" their iPods every few years. People can't drive the same cars forever and eventually have to get new ones, but the way that Apple is churning out 4 new iPods every year, the market just cannot bear them all.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by MacTel

Exactly!

Woz is a has-been. I don't mean that disrespectfully either. He's just isn't with a hip, happening, or cutting edge company to make these kinds of comments. I respect someone from Microsoft making these statements more than I do Woz. Sony or Dell even.

Tell me what consumer hot-selling product Woz has brought to the world in the last 2 decades? Name one.

Doesn't that kind of talk really make all of us here a bunch of never-were? He was probably on an unrealistic pedastal years ago, but still, he's probably accomplished more in his life than all or most of us combined, even if the most notable of that work was three decades ago.

I'm getting the feeling that all we are doing here boils down to something akin to a "my hero is better than your hero" or "my daddy is better than your daddy" kind of argument when probably none of us really will ever live up to that standard.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by applebook

However, once Apple reaches its limit on how small it can be, and once memory capacities are high enough for most users, the iPod will need to change dramatically because every consumer on the planet will already own several of them.

How much space is enough? I bought my first 1TB drive in 2008. Now I have 4x1TB drives, not including storage in my computers... and that is 75% full. I think we'll start to store larger files on your devices. The iPod Touch and iPhone can play DVD resolution movies with the CPU intensive H.264 video format. How long before we'll want to store and play 720p video on these handheld devices?

[hillstones]

Originally Posted by teckstud

You're all debating a guy who dates Kathy Griffin?

That ended long ago, she dumped him.

[walshbj]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

... but still, he's probably accomplished more in his life than all or most of us combined, even if the most notable of that work was three decades ago.

Can't argue with that. I'd have thought that goes without saying though. Still, he subjects himself to this kind of scrutiny when he makes semi-provocative comments.

Where there's smoke there's fire. Based on the number of people in this thread who seem annoyed by Woz I think it's fair to say he might be a provocateur.

That's my word of the day.

[caliminius]

Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella

Next, Woz equates Apple with a religion that does not allow it's followers to challenge it. This is why Woz is Woz and Jobs is Jobs. Woz was a great inventor...Jobs is a great businessman. Woz doesn't understand business(ever hear of CL 9 or Wheels of Zeus?). Apple is not a religion it is a corporation in the business of making money. The only business Woz is good at is being curmudgeon and that ain't paying to well.

Sorry, but you only have to look at comments on these forums to see that Apple has a "following" whether you want to equate it as a religion or just overly loyal fans, it really doesn't matter. Just take a look at the comments from yesterday's article about the EU directive concerning batteries that might require Apple to redesign the iPod and/or iPhone. People were attacking the EU left and right despite the fact that the directive was designed to help protect the environment, but you would have thought from the comments that the EU was directly attacking Apple.

That's just one example. Just take a look at any article that disparages Apple in any way. What I like to call the "Apple Defense Force" quickly comes to the rescue for Apple and Jobs, attacking anyone who dares speak ill of Apple. Then there's the Roughly Drafted website; if the "Apple Defense Force" had a home page, this would be it. I can't say anything kind about that site because it's either (a) an Apple sponsored propaganda site or (b) the author is so blinded by loyalty to Apple that he refuses to see anything negative about Apple. Of course, I say this knowing full well that a lot of his crap has spilled over onto this site over the last year.

[nvidia2008]

I'm sorry, but fuck Woz. I'm sick of hearing this fatass' bullshit.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by caliminius

Sorry, but you only have to look at comments on these forums to see that Apple has a "following" whether you want to equate it as a religion or just overly loyal fans, it really doesn't matter.

To be a religion I think there has to be a superhuman controlling power. Does anyone see Jobs as a Messiah? Is Cupertino a holy place? Who would Woz represent? How about Gates?

Just take a look at the comments from yesterday's article about the EU directive concerning batteries that might require Apple to redesign the iPod and/or iPhone. People were attacking the EU left and right despite the fact that the directive was designed to help protect the environment, but you would have thought from the comments that the EU was directly attacking Apple.

There were plenty of sites that were presenting it as an anti-Apple campaign by the EU, so teh defense is partially warranted, even though the iPhone's battery is easily changed by the removal of two screws. Beyond that, i am not sure that the plan will help the environment. From my perspective, people take the easiest route and throwing away a small battery in the trash will not change because it's easier to access, but we'll have to see how this proposal shapes up before we can really be sure it will work, but it looks like better education and disposal bins for electronics would be the best move at this point.

[nvidia2008]

Originally Posted by caliminius

Sorry, but you only have to look at comments on these forums to see that Apple has a "following" whether you want to equate it as a religion or just overly loyal fans, it really doesn't matter. Just take a look at the comments from yesterday's article about the EU directive concerning batteries that might require Apple to redesign the iPod and/or iPhone. People were attacking the EU left and right despite the fact that the directive was designed to help protect the environment, but you would have thought from the comments that the EU was directly attacking Apple.

That's just one example. Just take a look at any article that disparages Apple in any way. What I like to call the "Apple Defense Force" quickly comes to the rescue for Apple and Jobs, attacking anyone who dares speak ill of Apple. Then there's the Roughly Drafted website; if the "Apple Defense Force" had a home page, this would be it. I can't say anything kind about that site because it's either (a) an Apple sponsored propaganda site or (b) the author is so blinded by loyalty to Apple that he refuses to see anything negative about Apple. Of course, I say this knowing full well that a lot of his crap has spilled over onto this site over the last year.

Not all of us are making statements here just to defend Apple. Is just that Woz, well, what has he really done lately? He's more of a PR hack for himself nowadays. A lot of us are sick of his nonsense. He's a waste of space, physical, blog-wise, news-wise or otherwise.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by nvidia2008

I'm sorry, but fuck Woz. I'm sick of hearing this fatass' bullshit.

Wilco, stop using Nivida'a username!

That is a pretty strong stance. I can't deny his grand contributions in starting the personal computer revolution, but he hasn't done himself any favours by making these small world comments about the future of technology.

[nvidia2008]

Originally Posted by solipsism

To be a religion I think there has to be a superhuman controlling power. Does anyone see Jobs as a Messiah? Is Cupertino a holy place? Who would Woz represent? How about Gates?

There were plenty of sites that were presenting it as an anti-Apple campaign by the EU, so teh defense is partially warranted, even though the iPhone's battery is easily changed by the removal of two screws. Beyond that, i am not sure that the plan will help the environment. From my perspective, people take the easiest route and throwing away a small battery in the trash will not change because it's easier to access, but we'll have to see how this proposal shapes up before we can really be sure it will work, but it looks like better education and disposal bins for electronics would be the best move at this point.

Agreed. Honestly, if I cared about the environment (and I still kinda do...), I would rather Apple dispose of the old batteries than Joe Sixpack or Soccer Mom. Or the kid in a 3rd world country trying to sell it for scrap. I think the EU most of the time has a good long-term view of things. The EU and Apple are not "enemies", both have more in common than one might think. It's just difficult for Apple to comply a lot with the EU since it has such a strong base in the US. The EU has a tough time making US, China, etc. companies comply so it has to play hard ball. This is not a jihad of any kind, on either side, unless people want to spin it that way themselves and play the "Apple Cult" card.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by nvidia2008

... than Joe Sixpack or Soccer Mom...

I think the correct phrasing is, "than Joe Sixpack or Hockey Mom." Then you should follow it up by referring to yourself as a Maverick for the environment.

[nvidia2008]

Originally Posted by solipsism

I think the correct phrasing is, "than Joe Sixpack or Hockey Mom." Then you should follow it up by referring to yourself as a Maverick for the environment.

Yeah... I was kinda channelling Sarah Palin there. That's how pissed I get when I read Woz's comments. LOLs. BTW, since when did Soccer Moms become Hockey Moms? Did hockey get really popular in the past few years?! I've been away from the US for several years... *sigh* a lot has changed, it seems.

[GregAlexander]

Originally Posted by Leonard

if Sony had had some vision, they could have had an iPod-like Walkman before Apple. Sony just wasn't on the ball.

For mp3 players, Sony music was worried about music piracy.

Not just that - Sony earlier released their miniDisc, but wouldn't sell a combo player that allowed you to convert a CD to miniDisc (they wanted us to buy new miniDiscs). They also wouldn't sell a miniDisc drive for a computer which (besides allowing the same CD conversion) could have also been used instead of Zip drives etc for data.

Originally Posted by emig647

While I respect Woz, and completely agree with what he says about apple's restrictions on the developers... I don't think Jobs is as completely oblivious to the next "gadget" as he says.

I think the next big thing is something all companies strive for. There are lots of people and companies saying something will be amazing and revolutionary - but usually... it isn't. I think that once the iPhone prototype was in front of people, it was reasonably obvious that it would be a success. I wonder if Steve expected the AppleTV to do the same though?... he only called it a hobby much later.

I think Jobs has a good understanding of how a new technology will really be used, he can see that people will like something without having to get feedback from 100 people. Perhaps the price points and deals he makes are less clear than the technology itself - but he does do well at understanding a devices impact.

Originally Posted by kerryb

The next big gadget? If history tells us anything it will be based on gadgets we use today but most like a smaller and more portable version.

That'll certainly happen, but every iPod is slightly smaller and more portable, it's a natural evolution. I don't know if that can make the jump to being described as "the next big gadget".

I think the iPhone is a big thing which will see many similar devices. The next versions might be capable of being one of the "next big gadgets" too. I'm talking about more of an intelligent assistant that uses your location, calendar, & to-dos to help you in whatever way it can, while also being an entertainment device (music/games/tv). With minimal support, the technology is already capable of playing your purchased music, interspersed with downloaded songs it thinks you might like (based on genius) and other selections you've made (eg: local news/weather/traffic updates - based on your location). Between songs/news, it could update you on appointments and friends nearby, latest emails, etc - and you could put in your own traffic reports for others to hear only if they will be travelling through your location (just like the radio plays 10 second snippets of caller traffic reports).

[nvidia2008]

Originally Posted by solipsism

That is a pretty strong stance. I can't deny his grand contributions in starting the personal computer revolution, but he hasn't done himself any favours by making these small world comments about the future of technology...

It's just annoying that everytime some news or whatever site needs an "alternative view on Apple" they drag Woz out with some sort of statement -- iPod is dead, iPhone 3G sucks, Mac should be this, I got in line here, I dated so-and-so, I play Segway-this, blah blah blah. It's getting a bit much, but maybe it's just me...

[nvidia2008]

Originally Posted by GregAlexander

For mp3 players, Sony music was worried about music piracy.
Not just that - Sony earlier released their miniDisc, but wouldn't sell a combo player that allowed you to convert a CD to miniDisc (they wanted us to buy new miniDiscs)...

One word. ATRAC3. What I consider to be Sony's biggest mistake next to Betamax. After the miniDisc, Sony was pushing so hard on ATRAC3 and reconverting files to them, and some other DRM who-knows-what, I can't even remember what they were trying to do. It was a proprietary codec as well, IIRC. So it was made irrelevant pretty fast by Mpeg 1, 2, 3, 4...

That said, the miniDisc was pretty cool. I had some friends in university 10 to 15 years ago that were quite crazy about them. As I recall as long as you had an Line In on your minidisc recorder you could record whatever you wanted. No HDCP-esque DRM'ing. You'd take a CD player, output that into your miniDisc, or from your computer output into a miniDisc. A nice hobby and music enthusiast thing. You could easily record songs from the radio too.

Kind off bridged the gap between the "mixtape" and the "mp3 revolution". While recording was obviously a lossy process, the miniDisc didn't degrade with each recording. It was certainly better than tape, and much more flexible than CDs.

Of course, definitely, the expense and lack of new full album high-quality miniDiscs was a problem.