Apple announces new 13-inch MacBook

[desides]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Firewire does things that USB cannot do and that's why it's popular in some areas. Because the masses only do mundane things like hook up printers or extra hard drives doesn't mean there isn't a need for "smarter" technology.

Trouble is, the MacBook is a consumer level product. Or to borrow your derisive terminology, it's a notebook for the "masses." USB has been the dominant connection standard in the market for years because it's everything most people need, and because it's universally supported. The same cannot be said of FireWire.

I'm sorry that you don't like it, but reality is reality. Again: buy a MacBook Pro, buy a white MacBook, or continue to use your current computer.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by desides

Trouble is, the MacBook is a consumer level product. Or to borrow your derisive terminology, it's a notebook for the "masses." USB has been the dominant connection standard in the market for years because it's everything most people need, and because it's universally supported. The same cannot be said of FireWire.

I'm sorry that you don't like it, but reality is reality. Again: buy a MacBook Pro, buy a white MacBook, or continue to use your current computer.

I don't like it and neither does a lot of people. But you're right ..reality is reality...though I think that the legions of disgruntled will continue to voice their opinion.

EVERY Macbook until Oct 14 has had FW. There's really no excuse for Apple not offering FW given their history and the partnerships they've done with Apogee and other vendors.

[electrosaurus]

I'm not convinced that the new models are as over-priced as people are making them out to be.

In New Zealand, the new high-end aluminium Macbook costs NZ$2899, compared to the old high-end black Macbook, which cost NZ$2399.

So that's five hundred more, and what do you get for it?

A bigger FSB on the core (800Mhz -> 1066Mhz)
Higher speed RAM (DDR2 667Mhz -> DDR3 1066Mhz)
Backlit keyboard.
Apparently far superior graphics chip.
An enlarged glass trackpad with superior multi-touch gestures.

And of course the new manufacturing process, making for a lighter, thinner, stronger, prettier laptop.

Oh and don't forget that thumbscoop!

What do you lose? Firewire and a matte-screen option (I think).

Sure, it's not exactly 'aggressive' pricing. And I don't know whether the upgrades are quantifiably 'worth' an extra NZ$500. But it isn't a rip-off.

On a side-note, one awesome thing is that Apple have given NZers a really good deal! The price is much lower than what you get if you convert the American price to NZ dollars and add our taxes! Awesome!

[applebook]

The fact remains that most consumer PC laptops do not have firewire.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by applebook

The fact remains that most consumer PC laptops do not have firewire.

Yes but %60 of them add Firewire. I don't mind if Apple takes the feature away and I just have to pay for it but they've taken a feature away that cannot be added. Fact.

Apple thwarts internal expansion so we must be more strict about missing features.

[applebook]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Yes but %60 of them add Firewire. I don't mind if Apple takes the feature away and I just have to pay for it but they've taken a feature away that cannot be added. Fact.

Apple thwarts internal expansion so we must be more strict about missing features.

Well, there are USB converters out there. For most PC laptops under $1K, you have to get an express card for FW, so I suppose you could get a USB converter. I don't disagree with many of the complaints here. If FW were truly as useless as Apple claims, then very few people would complain, but there are tons of unhappy prospective buyers. I can understand their frustration.

[natefrogg]

they need an upgrade to the old 12" powerbook, give us firewire 800 and an express card slot, but with the 12" footprint

the macbook pro's are nice, but they are too big for some things, even photographers at work are holding onto their trusty 12" powerbooks that go everywhere with them, they are already bringing along a ton of gear and require a full featured, fast, reliable apple computer

at least this will drive down the price on the previous generation, refurbs will be nice, the $999 white one isn't bad either, too bad it's white though

c'est la vie, apple gives and apple takes...

[natefrogg]

they need an upgrade to the old 12" powerbook, give us firewire 800 and an express card slot, but with the 12" footprint

the macbook pro's are nice, but they are too big for some things, even photographers at work are holding onto their trusty 12" powerbooks that go everywhere with them, they are already bringing along a ton of gear and require a full featured, fast, reliable apple computer

at least this will drive down the price on the previous generation, refurbs will be nice, the $999 white one isn't bad either, too bad it's white though

c'est la vie, apple gives and apple takes...

[infinitespecter]

Originally Posted by desides

Trouble is, the MacBook is a consumer level product.

I've been thinking about that. Looking at how it is constructed, the hardware it has, and the price point it meets, it is NOT a consumer notebook by any stretch. It competes with 13" "pro" notebooks like the Dell XPS and Sony Vaio SR. Consumers, in general, don't spend $1600 on a notebook anymore. Nothing about it says "price conscious."

[infinitespecter]

Originally Posted by applebook

Well, there are USB converters out there. For most PC laptops under $1K, you have to get an express card for FW, so I suppose you could get a USB converter.

An expresscard is literally portable PCI Express card. It's like adding a FW card to a Mac Pro. A USB converter (if one existed) is... a converter and won't even work for most of the uses that most people are mentioning here.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by infinitespecter

I've been thinking about that. Looking at how it is constructed, the hardware it has, and the price point it meets, it is NOT a consumer notebook by any stretch. It competes with 13" "pro" notebooks like the Dell XPS and Sony Vaio SR. Consumers, in general, don't spend $1600 on a notebook anymore. Nothing about it says "price conscious."

Hear hear $1600 is NOT consumer pricing.

$800 is a "nice" laptop to most consumers. I think that the $1599 Macbook should have been a Pro model but then let's look at this logically. Could they have shoe horned in an expresscard slot and discrete graphics?

I think form has hampered function here preventing a small MBP.

[TBaggins]

WOW... is this thread gonna hit 500 posts? Amazing.

Oh, and check out my sig.

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[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by Haggar

How many of the people defending lack of Firewire in the MacBook actually believe what they are saying? If Apple had continued to offer Firewire in the MacBook, these same people would be praising Apple because:

"Firewire is so superior to USB"

"MacBook offers high end features not found on bargain basement laptops"

"Target Disk Mode make Macs so much superior to PCs"

But now that Apple dropped Firewire, these same people will just say "Who needs it anyway?"

No matter what Apple does, the Apple defenders will be right there to rationalize and defend them. If Apple completely changes direction, the Apple defenders will also change their story and contradict themselves right along with Apple. Instead of flip-flopping back and forth, why don't you stand by your beliefs?

There will be no video iPods. Nobody wants to watch video on iPods.

Apple will not make a cell phone.

Apple will never switch to Intel processors.

Who needs automatic memory allocation? Just click Get Info and change the memory yourself.

Who needs preemptive multitasking or memory protection since Macs never crash?

[desides]

Originally Posted by infinitespecter

I've been thinking about that. Looking at how it is constructed, the hardware it has, and the price point it meets, it is NOT a consumer notebook by any stretch. It competes with 13" "pro" notebooks like the Dell XPS and Sony Vaio SR. Consumers, in general, don't spend $1600 on a notebook anymore. Nothing about it says "price conscious."

"Consumer notebook" is not synonymous with "budget pricing."

[hmurchison]

AI is a site for computer enthusiasts.

I think the reality is that I'm a computer enthusiast and
even though I may not utilize the technology in the same
way as others here I realize that a premium brand like Apple
should be delivering technology that is superior. Jobs loves
to state that Apple makes the best computers available but
what exactly does that mean?

Fierwire is superior technology that was available to anyone
who chose a Mac. Now for the sake of design..we've lost
FW and that doesn't sit well with me or others that are actually
seeing the benefits of this superior technology.

[AnaAhlawy]

Ok, what about the white macbook? Price/value wise where is it among other notebooks?

First time to touch this thing at apple store, and I guess its love at first sight!! It is a heck of a sturdy notebook, my only worry is that the screen is a one piece thing, besides being glass, so you break it you.........

Why is everybody comparing the higher end of the MB with other pcs I mean why are not you comparing the aluminium MB entry price to other MB?!

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by AnaAhlawy

Ok, what about the white macbook? Price/value wise where is it among other notebooks?

First time to touch this thing at apple store, and I guess its love at first sight!! It is a heck of a sturdy notebook, my only worry is that the screen is a one piece thing, besides being glass, so you break it you.........

Why is everybody comparing the higher end of the MB with other pcs I mean why are not you comparing the aluminium MB entry price to other MB?!

The white Macbook isn't a horrible value but it's not that good either. I think that it's reasonable to expect graphics performance that's on par with the avg notebook in 2009 and with the X3100 graphics in the WMB you're behind the pack.

Yes ..do not break the new Alu Macbook glass or you're in for a world of hurt. While the unibody chassis is probably stronger and less impervious to damage the screen is going to cause a lot of warranty battles between customers and Apple.

[edmaster]

Well since firewire doesn't matter to me because I have an iMac at home, I went to the Apple Store tonight to touch and caress the new MacBooks and see them in person. Honestly, they're spectacular. Sturdy. Gorgeous. Sleek in design and use. The trackpad is a real innovation. After using that for a few minutes I tested out the old white machine and I was actually annoyed I had to press a separate button on the trackpad.

So it's on order. And I can't wait. I can definitely understand the angst of those of you with a bunch of FW peripherals, and sorry I couldn't stay with you in no-purchase solidarity, but I need it... and I think it's the perfect machine for me.

[PXT]

Originally Posted by MiMac

The MacBook Air is such a niche product that it may very well die in a years time.

Its a funny thing, I've been an avid supporter of Apple products over the years and have bought many pieces of Apple kit as well as recommending Macs to friends and family alike.
Now here's the thing. Just recently I have been asked for an honest opinion and purchasing advice as regards a home computer for a school child. While I really wanted to be able to recommend an Apple purchase I really could not due to three main factors.

1: The market domination of Windows PC's in schools.
2: The increasingly frustrating trend of Macs becoming more form over function (you get a better deal on a PC tech wise) , which brings me to...
3: Price. That is the real deal breaker. Never mind running Windows on a Mac via BootCamp et al. Money talks.

So the purchase of a new HP Pavillion with dual core etc. etc. was made and you know what... the thing is, it's a beautiful piece of kit and half the price of a Mac! Damn I hate myself.

The current debacle over the 'new' MacBook less FireWire has done nothing to shore up any faith that I may have had left in Apple. It looks like they are heading down the wrong path with Steve blindly leading the way, It's a one way street. HIS way. Pissing off your loyal user base is certainly not the way to go, neither is overpriced, under specced machines. "But its sooo pretty!" Who cares! Maybe it's time for Steve to go.

But the best selling Mac ever, with firewire and superdrive, has comes down from $1299 to $999. It comes with an OS that has a level of stability and security that you cannot buy on a PC at any price, plus apps that are easier and more integrated to use than anything on a PC - and it's $300 cheaper than ever before.

Isn't anybody happy about that?

[guinness]

Originally Posted by applebook

The fact remains that most consumer PC laptops do not have firewire.

Yes they do, but most have 4-pin FW 400.

Most PC laptops are the 15.4" variety, so it's trivial to include ExpressCard, S-Video/VGA out, more USB ports (3-4), Ethernet/modem, some have HDMI out as well.

[TenoBell]

Originally Posted by guinness

Yes they do, but most have 4-pin FW 400.

They don't come with it automatically. Generally you have to add it. 4 pin FW isn't all that useful.

Most PC laptops are the 15.4" variety, so it's trivial to include ExpressCard, S-Video/VGA out, more USB ports (3-4), Ethernet/modem, some have HDMI out as well.

With all those ports they are thicker, heavier, and made of clunky plastic hat creaks.

[guinness]

Originally Posted by TenoBell

They don't come with it automatically. Generally you have to add it. 4 pin FW isn't all that useful.



With all those ports they are thicker, heavier, and made of clunky plastic hat creaks.

While my laptop may be thicker, it doesn't creak, and the weight/size is a decent trade-off to have an affordable 15 inch laptop with plenty of ports, but it's fine to have lots of style, just don't bitch when Apple takes away your options or changes $2000 to get those ports back.

With my $700 laptop, I still have 4 USB ports, VGA/S-video out, ethernet/modem (which I haven't used 56k in 10 years, 4-pin FW (which is still FW, but it lacks the power pins), and an ExpressCard slot. And a 8x DVD burner, which up until recently, Apple still charged a premium for on the MB. It's like a $25 part, you can even buy them online and install them in older PC laptops if you wanted to.

While I love OSX, all the style in the world doesn't mean shit to me if I don't see a good value in that $1300 MB. 160 GB and 2 GB of RAM is BS for that price, the 9400 isn't that great (better than Intel, but that still not saying much - it's worse than the 8600M), but it's so thin and purdy, and I think that's all that matters to Apple and most people anymore, or at least they are putting up with losing some features, I'm surprised that they just didn't pull the DVD drive while they were at it, people would rationalize that too, to defend Apple.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by edmaster

Well since firewire doesn't matter to me because I have an iMac at home, I went to the Apple Store tonight to touch and caress the new MacBooks and see them in person. Honestly, they're spectacular. Sturdy. Gorgeous. Sleek in design and use. The trackpad is a real innovation. After using that for a few minutes I tested out the old white machine and I was actually annoyed I had to press a separate button on the trackpad.

So it's on order. And I can't wait. I can definitely understand the angst of those of you with a bunch of FW peripherals, and sorry I couldn't stay with you in no-purchase solidarity, but I need it... and I think it's the perfect machine for me.

edmaster...no problem brother. You have an iMac and so you still have access to what you need should a FW product be the best choice. For me...I have a Mac mini but I don't want to try to do audio/video. In the future my needs may change and I could afford to have a laptop with USB only but right now I cannot afford it functionality wise.

Originally Posted by guinness

While I love OSX, all the style in the world doesn't mean shit to me if I don't see a good value in that $1300 MB. 160 GB and 2 GB of RAM is BS for that price, the 9400 isn't that great (better than Intel, but that still not saying much - it's worse than the 8600M), but it's so thin and purdy, and I think that's all that matters to Apple and most people anymore, or at least they are putting up with losing some features, I'm surprised that they just didn't pull the DVD drive while they were at it, people would rationalize that too, to defend Apple.

I think this sums it up nicely. I like OS X a lot but it's not that much superior to Vista to forgo on much better hardware on the PC side. I think at times Apple calls our bluff and frankly for many of us they will not win this game of chicken. Sure they'll make millions of sales but I've been on the sales side of the process and consumers are often unaware of the long term limitations of their purchases but in a few years when the aluminum case is rather passe and USB 3.0 is all the rage today's Macbook owners may feel a bit closed in and envious. We'll see.

[TenoBell]

Originally Posted by guinness

While I love OSX, all the style in the world doesn't mean shit to me if I don't see a good value in that $1300 MB. 160 GB and 2 GB of RAM is BS for that price, the 9400 isn't that great (better than Intel, but that still not saying much - it's worse than the 8600M), but it's so thin and purdy, and I think that's all that matters to Apple and most people anymore, or at least they are putting up with losing some features, I'm surprised that they just didn't pull the DVD drive while they were at it, people would rationalize that too, to defend Apple.

Really? Lenovo has a notebook with 80GB HD, 1GB RAM, 800MHz FSB, no bluetooth, slower Intel graphics for $1,200.

[infinitespecter]

Originally Posted by desides

"Consumer notebook" is not synonymous with "budget pricing."

Fair enough, but it doesn't have the specs of a consumer notebook either. It's a prosumer/executive notebook at best.

[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by TenoBell

With all those ports they are thicker, heavier, and made of clunky plastic hat creaks.

O RLY?

Seriously T, if Apple put out a MacBook with a 15" screen, card slot, and a generous number of ports (including FW), the only thing you'd have to worry about is how many Apple Store employees will get trampled by the mobs of consumers rushing into buy 'em.

I don't think anyone reasonable doubts that.

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[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

The white Macbook isn't a horrible value but it's not that good either. I think that it's reasonable to expect graphics performance that's on par with the avg notebook in 2009 and with the X3100 graphics in the WMB you're behind the pack.

Yah, the graphics performance is quite pathetic with the white PlastiBook. That said, the new price and the fact that it still has FW make it more attractive to me than Steve's new MetalBooks.

And yes, I have played with the MetalBooks at my local Apple Store. Like the casing, new glass & LED-backlit screen, and the four-finger trackpad gestures, but Steve's yanking of FW ultimately forces me to give him a one-finger gesture.

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[KamiNoYadoru]

Another year, another batch of bitchy whiny babies.

[AnaAhlawy]

Well, I think from a marketing poit of view (and I am not a pro in that )Apple did a nice thing, I mean they clearly seperated their customers to "consumer-level" and "pro", so if you need the FW go pro

I think the MB is much more beautiful than the MBP, as it has less empty space all around the keyboard, besides the weight of course.

Maybe January 09 will bring along something new to replace the white MB . Also, I think apple are clever enough to provide all the functionality FW used to present or even more using either the new display port (and the necessary cables and adaptors), moreover, I think the 15" and 17" MBP will get another performance kick with the intro of snow leaopard in Jan 09. So as usual, patience is a virtue with apple.

[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by KamiNoYadoru

Another year, another batch of bitchy whiny babies.

Simplistic. And even if it was true, you'd be guilty of bitching and whining about "bitchy whiny babies".

See my sig.

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[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by AnaAhlawy

Well, I think from a marketing poit of view (and I am not a pro in that )Apple did a nice thing, I mean they clearly seperated their customers to "consumer-level" and "pro", so if you need the FW go pro.

Yeah, it's a shakedown, I think most of us get that. Cripple up the MacBook good and proper, so that more ppl have to shell out $2000+ for the MB Pro. Well, that is, if they don't get pissed and go back to Windows.

Just 'cuz we understand the reasoning, doesn't mean it's not a shakedown.

See my sig.

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[TenoBell]

Originally Posted by TBaggins

O RLY?

Seriously T, if Apple put out a MacBook with a 15" screen, card slot, and a generous number of ports (including FW), the only thing you'd have to worry about is how many Apple Store employees will get trampled by the mobs of consumers rushing into buy 'em.

I don't think anyone reasonable doubts that.

...

I'm having trouble making the corrolation between notebook sales and the number of ports. Could that be because their is no correlation.

[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by TenoBell

I'm having trouble making the corrolation between notebook sales and the number of ports. Could that be because their is no correlation.

Way to selectively ignore most of the post.

Read my sig.

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[TenoBell]

Originally Posted by TBaggins

Way to selectively ignore most of the post.

Read my sig.

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What else did you say?

[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by TenoBell

What else did you say?

The illiterate says, "What?"

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[vinea]

Originally Posted by TBaggins

O RLY?

Seriously T, if Apple put out a MacBook with a 15" screen, card slot, and a generous number of ports (including FW), the only thing you'd have to worry about is how many Apple Store employees will get trampled by the mobs of consumers rushing into buy 'em.

They do. It's the new 15" Macbook Pro. 15" screen, card slot and FW800.

The 13" MBP doesn't have a card slot or FW800 and has an integrated but decent GPU. On the other hand, it's also $400 cheaper. Oh sorry, added a Pro on there by mistake. Funny...looks just like it's Pro big brother. Hey lookie...it even drives a 30" ACD.

I bet a good number of graphic pros are thinking that's a pretty sweet update even with a $99 cable requirement.

[vinea]

Originally Posted by TBaggins

The illiterate says, "What?"

...

Because you didn't say anything else. What are you going to do if the new MB is wildly successful?

There's little difference between the MBP and MB anymore. Only if you need a port the MB doesn't have or need better graphics do you need to get a MBP now. Okay, it wont play Crysis but it does manage a lot of other games pretty well.

http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/app...08-models.html

[AnaAhlawy]

They do. It's the new 15" Macbook Pro. 15" screen, card slot and FW800.

The 13" MBP doesn't have a card slot or FW800 and has an integrated but decent GPU. On the other hand, it's also $400 cheaper. Oh sorry, added a Pro on there by mistake. Funny...looks just like it's Pro big brother. Hey lookie...it even drives a 30" ACD.

I bet a good number of graphic pros are thinking that's a pretty sweet update even with a $99 cable requirement.

I think you are absolutely right. I will wait till Jan before grabbing my UMB (unibody ) I hope by then I can get it with Snow Leo and the necessary cables, besides I think its usually the safest thing with apple, ain't it?

[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by vinea

Oh sorry, added a Pro on there by mistake.

And that kinda detonates the whole point of your post.

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[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by vinea

Because you didn't say anything else.

I did, actually. Wow... the functional illiteracy is spreading.

Maybe it's pointless trying to discuss things on AI. Ppl see what they wanna see, read what they wanna read. Ah well.


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