AppleInsider AppleInsider Forums


Go Back   AppleInsider > Mac OS
Register Members List New Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-04-2009, 03:26 PM   #1
AppleInsider
Kasper's Automated Slave
 
Join Date: Nov 1997
Posts: 6,148
'Art project' video game attacks Apple Mac machines

A 1980s-style video game attacks the Mac platform, deleting users' files as they progress through the level and shoot enemies. While its creator clearly warns of the consequences, the software has been labeled a Trojan horse.

The software created by Zach Gage is described as an "art project." The "game" generates aliens based on the number of files on a user's computer, and killing them deletes a file. Upon the player's death the game is supposed to delete itself. It includes an online raking of players' scores.

"By way of exploring what it means to kill in a video-game, Lose/Lose broaches bigger questions," the project's creator said. "As technology grows, our understanding of it diminishes, yet, at the same time, it becomes increasingly important in our lives. At what point does our virtual data become as important to us as physical possessions? If we have reached that point already, what real objects do we value less than our data? What implications does trusting something so important to something we understand so poorly have?"

While Gage sees his project as art, Symantec views it as a Trojan, though "Lose/Lose" is not seen as a great threat at the moment. The malware's creator even warns on his Web site what the application does, and upon starting the game, players are also cautioned that it will result in the deletion of files from their computer.

But the security firm cautioned that the threat, called OSX.Loosemaque, could be modified by someone with "more malicious intentions" and passed on to unsuspecting users without the current warnings.

In a video demonstrating the Trojan, Symantec showed how the game begins to delete files on the system as aliens are killed, in a top-down shooter designed in the style of classics like Galaga. After a number of aliens were killed, the program attempted to delete a critical system file, which caused the malware to crash.

"You'll notice that while I'm blowing up the ships, the files in my Documents folder are disappearing," the video states. "It looks like the game chooses users' documents first, and then it moves on to preference files contained within the very subfolders of the user's home directory."

Cult of Mac noted that the game has also been defined as a threat by Sophos Anti-Virus and Intego VirusBarrier X5. The software was first released in September.



Viruses on the Mac platform remain scarce, but with the recent release of Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, Apple included enhanced malware protection.
AppleInsider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 03:33 PM   #2
ghostface147
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 235
Too funny. This is sure to give some other people some great ideas on how to write something more dangerous than this program. What a great front, a game that deletes files.
ghostface147 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 03:34 PM   #3
Drow_Swordsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 36
Though I feel sorry for anyone who accidentally downloads this unknowing of its design, the questions it poses as a whole are pretty interesting, in my opinion. I like the concept, I just would never download it.
Drow_Swordsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 03:45 PM   #4
camroidv27
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 326
Finally, a game that doesn't reward you for killing! Even better, one that inflicts damage onto you! I love this idea since so many video games that have simulated killing make said killing so detached from reality. In Halo, does one ever consider the family of the little guys your character kills when you press the button?
(Although, I do not believe video games lead all their players to be killers... although they do help those who were on the way and can't disconnect virtual from reality)

Soap box aside: I would not label this as a Trojan. You are in full knowledge that your files will disappear! That, and you have to download it.


Now please, no MS comments, okay? This has nothing to do with that company. Focus on the art project, as I think its a really interesting concept!


openSuSe 11.2, 32 and 64 bit, for Mac and PC!
"Shiny capt'n. Everything thing is A-Okay."
camroidv27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 03:51 PM   #5
Marvin
Global Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,250
It's not really any more dangerous than any of the programs that have built-in scripting. In Maya for example you get file access from scripts so you can be downloading a script that says it generates trees and then it can create a tree that looks like your folder structure and then erase that folder structure. It could also be justified by pretentious 'artists' by asking whether it's more important to create a lovely tree or make sure you don't lose all the rest of your work. Even Snow Leopard makes you choose between having guests and losing everything - which is more important to you? The worst thing you can really do is give these people any recognition because the recognition alone they use to justify it as art when in fact it's just really annoying.

I wish we lived in times when artists felt they had to actually do something meaningful to earn their title as an artist like sculpt a statute or paint a chapel somewhere. Nowadays, they just defecate on things (literally sometimes) shove it in a gallery and wait for the outrage and then go 'see, it's art because you're pissed off. Wow, I'm so talented'.

My idea for a game is to have these people hurled over a shooting range and the shooter must decide between killing them and the possibility of losing the benefits they've made to society from their work. I think this whole situation would be resolved pretty quickly.
Marvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 03:52 PM   #6
Xian Zhu Xuande
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 311
Just to pre-empt the certain-to-appear 'OMG MAC TROJON!!!1' responses, this does not appear to be based on any sort of exploit. Programs are fully capable of managing your user files on any OS. This is how they are able to save, move, and delete files based on your actions. This program simply chooses to delete those unprotected files. Now, if it were able to delete the password-protected system files, that would be another story.

Still, that was an interesting video. Odd idea, and sure to generate some publicity.


“The true measure of a man is how he treats someone that can do him absolutely no good.”
  —Samuel Johnson
Xian Zhu Xuande is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 03:57 PM   #7
steviet02
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 423
See what happens when you gain market share?
steviet02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 04:00 PM   #8
Foo2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 591
My kids will absolutely love playing this game!

When does art become crime, by the way?
Foo2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 04:09 PM   #9
camroidv27
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
I wish we lived in times when artists felt they had to actually do something meaningful to earn their title as an artist like sculpt a statute or paint a chapel somewhere. Nowadays, they just defecate on things (literally sometimes) shove it in a gallery and wait for the outrage and then go 'see, it's art because you're pissed off. Wow, I'm so talented'.

My idea for a game is to have these people hurled over a shooting range and the shooter must decide between killing them and the possibility of losing the benefits they've made to society from their work. I think this whole situation would be resolved pretty quickly.
Prompt One: Post a piece of artistic work you have created. (It must have meaning to you, and invigorate emotion in others)
(Me personally, I'm no artist, far from, but I can still appreciate it, even if it is just a single dot on a large canvas. Doesn't mean I like it though.)

Second: I suggest you ban yourself for delivering such hateful words that imply death to people for no other reason than for a creative works that does not conform to your own sense of style. Comments like these are exactly what my post was about. Detachment. I do not tolerate comments like this.


openSuSe 11.2, 32 and 64 bit, for Mac and PC!
"Shiny capt'n. Everything thing is A-Okay."


Last edited by camroidv27; 11-04-2009 at 04:20 PM..
camroidv27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 04:12 PM   #10
Gazoobee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Cheese
Posts: 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
A 1980s-style video game attacks the Mac platform, deleting users' files as they progress through the level and shoot enemies. While its creator clearly warns of the consequences, the software has been labeled a Trojan horse. ...
I think it's hilarious, and yes ... Art.

No need for quotes.


It was a widely held belief by the smartest people in late 1400's Europe that human knowledge and indeed civilisation itself, had advanced to such a nearly complete and perfect state, that the "end times" were certainly almost upon them.
Gazoobee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 04:28 PM   #11
DKWalsh4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post
Second: I suggest you ban yourself for delivering such hateful words that imply death to people for no other reason than for a creative works that does not conform to your own sense of style. Comments like these are exactly what my post was about. Detachment. I do not tolerate comments like this.
I believe you took him a little too seriously.
DKWalsh4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 04:32 PM   #12
doyourownthing
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 142
what's next? the empty trash command from the dock will be labeled a trojan horse as well? give me a break
doyourownthing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 04:33 PM   #13
Gazoobee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Cheese
Posts: 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
... I wish we lived in times when artists felt they had to actually do something meaningful to earn their title as an artist like sculpt a statute or paint a chapel somewhere. Nowadays, they just defecate on things (literally sometimes) shove it in a gallery and wait for the outrage and then go 'see, it's art because you're pissed off. Wow, I'm so talented'. ...
IMO you are mixing up your definitions here. Art is about meaning.

You say you wish they did something more meaningful, but then you kind of imply that it's the "talent" they show (or don't show), that's the core of it all, which is really code for "craft." Craftsmanship /= "Art".


It was a widely held belief by the smartest people in late 1400's Europe that human knowledge and indeed civilisation itself, had advanced to such a nearly complete and perfect state, that the "end times" were certainly almost upon them.
Gazoobee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 04:36 PM   #14
Marvin
Global Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,250
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post
Prompt One: Post a piece of artistic work you have created. (It must have meaning to you, and invigorate emotion in others)
My previous post satisfies those requirements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post
Second: I suggest you ban yourself for delivering such hateful words that imply death to people for no other reason than for a creative works that does not conform to your own sense of style. Comments like these are exactly what my post was about. Detachment. I do not tolerate comments like this.
I take it you are someone who thinks that art has no definition other than the definition you impose on it. By that standard everything is art and I suggest that by that definition, nothing is.

I don't care for an opinion that degrades the standards and quality of the creative industry. I find it an insult to know very hard working and talented artists who have studied and learned their craft for years and someone makes programs that deletes files and that they are even discussed for a second in any capacity other than ridicule.
Marvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 04:46 PM   #15
camroidv27
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
I take it you are someone who thinks that art has no definition other than the definition you impose on it. By that standard everything is art and I suggest that by that definition, nothing is.
I am someone who thinks that art is defined by the creator or by the viewer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
I don't care for an opinion that degrades the standards and quality of the creative industry. I find it an insult to know very hard working and talented artists who have studied and learned their craft for years and someone makes programs that deletes files and that they are even discussed for a second in any capacity other than ridicule.
That is no excuse for wanting to shoot them! That was my main problem, your wishes of death of another person purely for having different views. I disagree with you, but I don't want you dead, and I think your differing opinion adds value to a discussion.

There are hard working artists out there, (my mother being one, who went to school and has an art degree, and uses it daily to put food on her table. I technically have an art degree too, though I don't use it.) and I think they don't get enough credit, that I'll agree on. But the person who made this program (and programming can be an art, ask a dev!) has files delete when you kill as a representation of something, in their words, to show our dependence on the virtual world. To me this is most definitely art. Now, if it was intended as such, I don't know for sure, but I do know that I view it as art, and though I don't think I'll see it in any museum ever, I can appreciate the message.


openSuSe 11.2, 32 and 64 bit, for Mac and PC!
"Shiny capt'n. Everything thing is A-Okay."


Last edited by camroidv27; 11-04-2009 at 04:52 PM..
camroidv27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 04:59 PM   #16
Lemon Bon Bon.
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 761
Quote:
My idea for a game is to have these people hurled over a shooting range and the shooter must decide between killing them and the possibility of losing the benefits they've made to society from their work. I think this whole situation would be resolved pretty quickly.
Amen.

*Loads his gun.

Lemon Bon Bon.


You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
Lemon Bon Bon. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 05:04 PM   #17
spliff monkey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: hudson valley ny
Posts: 194
This is not ART. I understand that this kid is trying to make a statement but I think we all know very well how important bits and bytes have become. Putting meaning and value behind paper money (not backed by gold) equals about the same thing if not slightly less moronic. Nothing new to learn here.

I hate smart asses and clearly this "artist" is just a smart ass. He knows nothing anyone with any reasonable level of intelligence isn't already aware of. Move on and preach to another choir. Funny ha ha until some idiot gets their hands on the game and sends it to another idiot who actually installs it.


turtles all the way up and turtles all the way down... infinite context means infinite possibility
spliff monkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 05:11 PM   #18
jfdesign
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 8
OK... What kind of stupid is that!?!

Who in their right mind would read that, say "Oh, that sounds like fun" and try that game out!? That sounds like "SAW VIII: The Dawn of the Stupid".
jfdesign is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 05:13 PM   #19
camroidv27
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post
Amen.

*Loads his gun.

Lemon Bon Bon.
As someone who works with death every day... I really don't find this funny.


openSuSe 11.2, 32 and 64 bit, for Mac and PC!
"Shiny capt'n. Everything thing is A-Okay."
camroidv27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 05:16 PM   #20
MacTripper
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 599
This game shows a serious weakness, that a program can read, upload, delete or alter files to which it has no right to access.

What's equally stupid of Apple is giving application installers sudo root authority. That's why trojans are so successful on Macs.

Only system level altering programs should have sudo access and OS X should warn users a program is accessing a file outside it's own file types/association.

Here's a nice sample list of rootkits for OS X just itching to get in.

55808Trojan-VariantA
ADMWorm
AjaKitRootkit
aPaKit
ApacheWorm
Ambient(ark)Rootkit
BalaurRootkit
BeastKitRootkit
beX2Rootkit
BOBKitRootkit
CiNIKWorm(Slapper.Bvariant)
Danny-Boy'sAbuseKit
DevilRootKit
Dica-KitRootkit
DreamsRootkit
DuarawkzRootkit
EnyeLKM
FleaLinuxRootkit
FreeBSDRootkit
Fuck`itRootkit
GasKitRootkit
HeroinLKM
HjCKit
ignoKitRootkit
ImperalsS-FBRKRootkit
IrixRootkit
KitkoRootkit
KnarkRootkit
Li0nWorm
Lockit/LJK2Rootkit
Mood-NTRootkit
MRKRootkit
Ni0Rootkit
OhharaRootkit
OpticKit(Tux)Worm
OzRootkit
PhalanxRootkit
PortaceloRootkit
R3dstormToolkit
RH-Sharpe'sRootkit
RSHA'sRootkit
ScalperWorm
SebekLKM
ShutdownRootkit
SHV4Rootkit
SHV5Rootkit
SinRootkit
SlapperWorm
SneakinRootkit
SuckitRootkit
SunOSRootkit
SunOS/NSDAPRootkit
SuperkitRootkit
TBD(TelnetBackDoor)
TeLeKiTRootkit
T0rnRootkit
TrojanitKit
TuxtendoRootkit
URKRootkit
VcKitRootkit
VolcRootkit
X-OrgSunOSRootkit
zaRwT.KiTRootkit


Glossy screens will errode consumers interest in computers because it makes it harder to see the screen around the reflections.
People forced to use glossy screen computers for long hours will have physical problems eventually. See here


Last edited by MacTripper; 11-04-2009 at 05:26 PM..
MacTripper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 05:19 PM   #21
camroidv27
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 326
One of course, has to run the infected installer. But yes, it is a weakness. Most people just do the whole install thing because they think they are protected on a Mac.

I think the same goes for Linux too... though I don't know if their installers are sandboxed or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post
What's equally stupid of Apple is giving application installers sudo root authority. That's why trojans are so successful on Macs.

Here's a nice sample list of rootkits for OS X just itching to get in.

55808Trojan-VariantA
ADMWorm
AjaKitRootkit
aPaKit
ApacheWorm
Ambient(ark)Rootkit
BalaurRootkit
BeastKitRootkit
beX2Rootkit
BOBKitRootkit
CiNIKWorm(Slapper.Bvariant)
Danny-Boy'sAbuseKit
DevilRootKit
Dica-KitRootkit
DreamsRootkit
DuarawkzRootkit
EnyeLKM
FleaLinuxRootkit
FreeBSDRootkit
Fuck`itRootkit
GasKitRootkit
HeroinLKM
HjCKit
ignoKitRootkit
ImperalsS-FBRKRootkit
IrixRootkit
KitkoRootkit
KnarkRootkit
Li0nWorm
Lockit/LJK2Rootkit
Mood-NTRootkit
MRKRootkit
Ni0Rootkit
OhharaRootkit
OpticKit(Tux)Worm
OzRootkit
PhalanxRootkit
PortaceloRootkit
R3dstormToolkit
RH-Sharpe'sRootkit
RSHA'sRootkit
ScalperWorm
SebekLKM
ShutdownRootkit
SHV4Rootkit
SHV5Rootkit
SinRootkit
SlapperWorm
SneakinRootkit
SuckitRootkit
SunOSRootkit
SunOS/NSDAPRootkit
SuperkitRootkit
TBD(TelnetBackDoor)
TeLeKiTRootkit
T0rnRootkit
TrojanitKit
TuxtendoRootkit
URKRootkit
VcKitRootkit
VolcRootkit
X-OrgSunOSRootkit
zaRwT.KiTRootkit


openSuSe 11.2, 32 and 64 bit, for Mac and PC!
"Shiny capt'n. Everything thing is A-Okay."
camroidv27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 05:21 PM   #22
richardk32
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post
My kids will absolutely love playing this game!

When does art become crime, by the way?
Interesting question. Depending on the time period, it is one that was raised against DaVinci, Nabokov, Solzhenitsyn, Lenny Bruce, John Lennon, and many others. The question may be better phrased "when can a crime successfully masquerade as art?"
richardk32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 05:22 PM   #23
camroidv27
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by richardk32 View Post
Interesting question. Depending on the time period, it is one that was raised against DaVinci, Nabokov, Solzhenitsyn, Lenny Bruce, John Lennon, and many others. The question may be better phrased "when can a crime successfully masquerade as art?"
I wonder how many Child Porn cases used the "Its for Art" defense.


openSuSe 11.2, 32 and 64 bit, for Mac and PC!
"Shiny capt'n. Everything thing is A-Okay."
camroidv27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 05:25 PM   #24
JimDreamworx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North America
Posts: 859
Soon, dragging items to the Trash will be considered malware.
JimDreamworx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 05:34 PM   #25
MacTripper
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 599
Wow, Google must have this site on super search or something.

I was Googling for recent info on some of the rootkits I've posted a few minutes ago and my post was already in Googles search results.

yikes!


Glossy screens will errode consumers interest in computers because it makes it harder to see the screen around the reflections.
People forced to use glossy screen computers for long hours will have physical problems eventually. See here
MacTripper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 05:38 PM   #26
estolinski
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13
[QUOTE=camroidv27;1514340]I am someone who thinks that art is defined by the creator or by the viewer.


That is no excuse for wanting to shoot them! That was my main problem, your wishes of death of another person purely for having different views. I disagree with you, but I don't want you dead, and I think your differing opinion adds value to a discussion.

Have to agree with camroid here...
estolinski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 05:43 PM   #27
nagromme
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: No GPS signal.
Posts: 1,168
It’s only a trojan if it pretends not to delete files. But it SAYS it deletes files. If this is a trojan then so is an app that helps you wipe your HD before sale (like, say, Disk Utility). So is FInder—it can delete files too.


nagromme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 05:46 PM   #28
MacTripper
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post
I wonder how many Child Porn cases used the "Its for Art" defense.
Not many that are successful that's for sure.

Allowing that as art is like allowing murderers to make sculpture out of their victims.

The ends don't justify the means.


But way off topic. What's Apple going to do about these trojans?

I suggest a non-sudo application installation password in addition to the admin level password.


Glossy screens will errode consumers interest in computers because it makes it harder to see the screen around the reflections.
People forced to use glossy screen computers for long hours will have physical problems eventually. See here
MacTripper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 05:47 PM   #29
Magic_Al
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 114
To quote WarGames, the only winning move is not to play.
Magic_Al is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 05:50 PM   #30
Woode
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 18
More than one post in this thread has illustrated quite well part of the artist/programmer's commentary:

Quote:
As technology grows, our understanding of it diminishes...
I have to say that the project has been quite successful!
Woode is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 05:52 PM   #31
Robodude
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 77
There's alway been bad art... it just never get remembered. I think it's an interesting game and concept - definitely something to think about in this technological age. People definitely think of their digital data as possessions, which might explain the slow uptake of subscription based music services and the like.

Are you an artist Marvin? This seems to have struck a nerve. It's not as if he's passing this off as art...
Robodude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 05:53 PM   #32
camroidv27
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post
But way off topic. What's Apple going to do about these trojans?

I suggest a non-sudo application installation password in addition to the admin level password.
This could work for some applications, but there are others that need to install kexts, and prefrence panes, and other system related stuff. How would we decipher between the two? If we went so far as "Installer X is trying to write to system folder Y. Cancel or Allow?" then that would get too tedious.

But, it would be nice to have an install that doesn't require SUDO abilities, but I don't see it happening any time soon.


openSuSe 11.2, 32 and 64 bit, for Mac and PC!
"Shiny capt'n. Everything thing is A-Okay."
camroidv27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 05:53 PM   #33
jpellino
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 259
The author got what he wanted...

Namely attention.
It's inconsequential and does not answer the "bigger questions". But it sounds lofty and artsy. At its core it might be a half-half-baked attempt at thinking about some aspect of game theory, but since no one in their right mind would actually do what's implied for the direct lesson - destroy critical single copy files of necessary info - it's academic at best.
jpellino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 05:54 PM   #34
MacTripper
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post
One of course, has to run the infected installer. But yes, it is a weakness. Most people just do the whole install thing because they think they are protected on a Mac.

I think the same goes for Linux too... though I don't know if their installers are sandboxed or not.

There is a virus for Linux by the way.

http://www.securiteam.com/unixfocus/5MP022K5GE.html


Glossy screens will errode consumers interest in computers because it makes it harder to see the screen around the reflections.
People forced to use glossy screen computers for long hours will have physical problems eventually. See here
MacTripper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 06:06 PM   #35
MacTripper
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post
This could work for some applications, but there are others that need to install kexts, and prefrence panes, and other system related stuff. How would we decipher between the two? If we went so far as "Installer X is trying to write to system folder Y. Cancel or Allow?" then that would get too tedious.
Well that's where OS X comes in and monitors the installation instead of giving the installer a blank check to alter OS X itself or create security holes.

For instance my printer installer opened a listen TCP port, so now any exploit found in the printer daemon software has root access to my machine. OS X didn't even warn that a port was open and give me a option to close it. I don't use internet/network printing so the port being open is a security risk. The port has since been closed obviously, but it's just a example.

OS X's security weakens the more sudo level third party installs it encounters. 95% of exploits are in applications!


It's rather simple to see why, once a third party software developer releases a application they have to maximize profits, so out goes the programmers or they are on the next project. Games are the worst. It's smart to buy software from developers with a proven track record and a immediate attention to any security issue.



By the way, off topic a little but Windows 7 has been tested against the latest viruses and 8 out of ten got in and infected the machine. So it's back to malware as usual on Windows. IT folks can breath a sigh of relief, their job futures are bright.


Glossy screens will errode consumers interest in computers because it makes it harder to see the screen around the reflections.
People forced to use glossy screen computers for long hours will have physical problems eventually. See here


Last edited by MacTripper; 11-04-2009 at 06:28 PM..
MacTripper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 06:12 PM   #36
PaulMJohnson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post
That is no excuse for wanting to shoot them! That was my main problem, your wishes of death of another person purely for having different views. I disagree with you, but I don't want you dead, and I think your differing opinion adds value to a discussion.
You're new to internet discussion boards aren't you? As far as I can make out, in cyberspace, most people seem to believe if your opinions are slightly different from theirs that you deserve to be killed!

PaulMJohnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 06:36 PM   #37
camroidv27
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post
Well that's where OS X comes in and monitors the installation instead of giving the installer a blank check to alter OS X itself or create security holes.

For instance my printer installer opened a listen TCP port, so now any exploit found in the printer daemon software has root access to my machine. OS X didn't even warn that a port was open and give me a option to close it. I don't use internet/network printing so the port being open is a security risk. The port has since been closed obviously, but it's just a example.

OS X's security weakens the more sudo level third party installs it encounters. 95% of exploits are in applications!


It's rather simple to see why, once a third party software developer releases a application they have to maximize profits, so out goes the programmers or they are on the next project. Games are the worst. It's smart to buy software from developers with a proven track record and a immediate attention to any security issue.



By the way, off topic a little but Windows 7 has been tested against the latest viruses and 8 out of ten got in and infected the machine. So it's back to malware as usual on Windows. IT folks can breath a sigh of relief, their job futures are bright.
MS: I thought I said I didn't want to hear about it! But yes, doesn't surprise me. I don't trust Windows' built in security... just like I don't trust Mac's built in security either.

I like the idea of warning about ports opening, or applications that will run in the background constantly. But even then, the simplicity of the OS (and people not needing to know how it runs underneath) gets compromised.
As for Linux, I know there are a few viruses out there. No one is immune.


openSuSe 11.2, 32 and 64 bit, for Mac and PC!
"Shiny capt'n. Everything thing is A-Okay."
camroidv27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 06:40 PM   #38
camroidv27
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post
You're new to internet discussion boards aren't you? As far as I can make out, in cyberspace, most people seem to believe if your opinions are slightly different from theirs that you deserve to be killed!

Welcome to the world of anonymity. Out here, our faces become names and IP addresses, and we can be anyone we choose. Therefore its easier to more rude and brash since we don't have to fully be responsible for our words. I know how it works.


openSuSe 11.2, 32 and 64 bit, for Mac and PC!
"Shiny capt'n. Everything thing is A-Okay."
camroidv27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 06:46 PM   #39
JeffDM
Global Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: .US
Posts: 9,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post
I wonder how many Child Porn cases used the "Its for Art" defense.
Throwing defense arguments into the ring are a dime a dozen, making an argument doesn't mean it gets accepted. I'd be more concerned if it actually worked, which I really doubt it ever does.


Last edited by JeffDM; 11-04-2009 at 06:55 PM..
JeffDM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2009, 06:52 PM   #40
Foo2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 591
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post
I am someone who thinks that art is defined by the creator or by the viewer.
In the case of assault, the crime is defined in large part by the victim, not the perpetrator.

What would the warnings mean to someone who can't read English?
Foo2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.