Retail sources say its closing time for current iPod line

[AppleInsider]

Resellers both near and afar are reporting signs that Apple's current line of iPod digital music players are on their way out the door, just as one prominent Wall Street analyst restates his claim that a $199 iPod touch is likely to be among the new models that will fill the void.

Stateside, people familiar with the inventory management systems of mass merchandizer Target say all current iPod models have recently seen their status shift from "Active" to "Discontinued" when scanned with handheld PDA scanners used by employees.

Those handhelds, however, aren't capable of displaying set dates for new planogram refreshes, as that information is said to be available only through the retailer's web-based intranet systems.

Separately, big-box retailer Argos in the UK is preparing to clear out its remaining iPod inventory in anticipation of new models in the coming weeks. A person familiar with the plans says the company recently took receipt of new point-of-sale displays promoting "price cuts" that should hit the retail floor during the last week of August or first week of September.

The displays include a "giant wall graphic" which is the "biggest poster" displayed by the retailer, that person said.

These initial signs of inventory ramp down come amid calls from some of the more prominent Wall Street analysts regarding the steps that will be necessary for Apple to maintain its current momentum in the digital media player business.

In a note to clients last week, Lehman Brothers analyst Ben Reitzes noted that availability of the 16GB iPod touch at speciality electronics retailer Best Buy has trailed all other members of the iPod family for several weeks.

"We continue to believe Apple will need to reposition the iPod touch line in conjunction with its anticipated new product announcement in early to mid-September now that the iPhone acquisition price is lower," he said.

On Tuesday, Piper Jaffray analyst Gene Munster issued his own note to clients where he voiced a similar view to that of Reitzes, adding that he expects iPod refreshes across the board with a sub-$200 iPod touch to boot.

"Specifically, we believe Apple will increase the capacity of the iPod shuffles as well as the iPod nanos (but maintain current price points); redesigned form factors for the shuffles and nanos are unlikely," the analyst wrote. "We believe the iPod touch may be redesigned and may enter the $199 price point, in line with the iPhone."

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[Denton]

My prediction: if the Touch enters the $200 price slot it will be a Touch Nano that will replace the current Nano altogether.

How is it that Munster doesn't understand that the Touch is not a competitor of the iPhone and so doesn't need to compete with it on retail price? Does he think that people don't understand the concept of a contract and how much they end up paying over its lifetime? Does he really have that low an opinion of the average consumer?

[hypermark]

This has been rumored for a long time. Perhaps this might be the oft-alluded to product transition that will take down margins?

[kenaustus]

What is going to be interesting is the penetration that OS X has in the iPod line-up. At some point I believe it will be in all (except the Shuffle) versions in order to simplify the iPod/iPhone lines and, more importantly, to take advantage of the AppStore potential.

[elroth]

I hope they keep the current nano form factor and ramp up the storage to 32GB (I'll accept 16 grudgingly). A lot of us don't want or need to carry around video or surf the net, we just want lots of tunes (lossless tunes) in a small package.

[mazzy]

I hope they increase the Classic from 160GB to 240 or more? There are many who want to have all of their music in studios, offices, second homes and so on. Got 36,000 song loaded on and hardly any room left.

[Foo2]

The delay until next month for a fix to iPhone problems suggests the same Apple developers are currently focused on the next-generation iPods that will appear in September, too.

[GQB]

Originally Posted by mazzy

I hope they increase the Classic from 160GB to 240 or more? There are many who want to have all of their music in studios, offices, second homes and so on. Got 36,000 song loaded on and hardly any room left.

The Classic will be dead soon, at this refresh or soon after.
My guess is that the market for users who have or need upwards of 160GB of carry-around music content is insignificant, and anyone needing that much storage for video is not going to be using it on a Classic with touch size screens available.

Beyond that, its mainly an external storage device and I don't see where Apple gets any particular glory for that segment.

We'll see if I'm wrong.

[kanemaster]

Originally Posted by mazzy

I hope they increase the Classic from 160GB to 240 or more? There are many who want to have all of their music in studios, offices, second homes and so on. Got 36,000 song loaded on and hardly any room left.

Geese Mazzy,

I have my 160 Gig ipod filled as well but I'm a DJ and my music covers everything I could find in both English as well as Latin music.

I also have an iphone with that application "Simplify Media" that may resolve all my storage issues.

[Galley]

The classic is dead. Streaming your library over Wi-Fi, or even over the Internet is the future.

[mazzy]

I keep hearing that the classics are solid sellers. Obviously not like touch or nanos but a very mature market who want huge music collections in places away from their homes and not for video-also lossless music.. Also I know many who use for back up drives.

[AHeneen]

Originally Posted by mazzy

I hope they increase the Classic from 160GB to 240 or more? There are many who want to have all of their music in studios, offices, second homes and so on. Got 36,000 song loaded on and hardly any room left.

I don't want to be rude, but that amounts to a very small number of people. For the costs associated with producing a music player with that much storage, you should probably just buy a small, portable hard drive that you can plug into computers. I am no expert, but it would seem as though very few people have music libraries large enough to even fill the 80GB iPod Classic.

[mazzy]

Originally Posted by kanemaster

Geese Mazzy,

I have my 160 Gig ipod filled as well but I'm a DJ and my music covers everything I could find in both English as well as Latin music.

I also have an iphone with that application "Simplify Media" that may resolve all my storage issues.

Simply Media is a great APP on my iPhone too as I never load in music directly. But only when I am in a wi fi area and sometimes I have to wait for buffering.

[Zandros]

Originally Posted by AHeneen

I don't want to be rude, but that amounts to a very small number of people. For the costs associated with producing a music player with that much storage, you should probably just buy a small, portable hard drive that you can plug into computers. I am no expert, but it would seem as though very few people have music libraries large enough to even fill the 80GB iPod Classic.

Certainly not. I have less than 7000 songs using more than 104GB of space, and I know a few other people in the same situation. It may not be the norm, but it is certainly not uncommon.

Some also use their iPods to backup photos.

/Adrian

[bigmc6000]

Originally Posted by Zandros

Certainly not. I have less than 7000 songs using more than 104GB of space, and I know a few other people in the same situation. It may not be the norm, but it is certainly not uncommon.

Some also use their iPods to backup photos.

/Adrian

Correct me if I'm wrong here but doesn't that mean that at 256 kbps your *average* song is over 8 mins long? What the heck are you listening to?

104GB *1028MB/GB*1028MB/KB*8b/B / (7000 songs * 256 kbps * 60) = 8.177 mins

[Zandros]

Originally Posted by bigmc6000

Correct me if I'm wrong here but doesn't that mean that at 256 kbps your *average* song is over 8 mins long? What the heck are you listening to?

104GB *1028MB/GB*1028MB/KB*8b/B / (7000 songs * 256 kbps * 60) = 8.177 mins

About 40% of the songs are in Apple Lossless, with bitrates ranging from about 600kbps to 1200kbps.

/Adrian

[bigmc6000]

Originally Posted by Zandros

About 40% of the songs are in Apple Lossless, with bitrates ranging from about 600kbps to 1200kbps.

/Adrian

Have you ever done a placebo test? I.E. Encode in 256 AAC vs Lossless and see if you can hear the difference without knowing which one you are listening to?

I ask because I've done it with a number of people and not a single person could hear a single thing when listening to the music at a normal level. (I suppose if you blasted it as loud as possible you might hear the nuances but most people don't listen to music that loud)

[freelander51]

Originally Posted by Galley

The classic is dead. Streaming your library over Wi-Fi, or even over the Internet is the future.

Tell that to my Dension IceLink in the car. Am I supposed to buy a new car now ??????

[fpsanders]

I can't wait for the ultimate 1 Tb nano iPod release in 2012

and then the world ends...

[Cubert]

Why does Apple wait so late into the back-to-school buying season to update their lines? Most kids are back at college by Labor Day and have bought everything they need. They should get these updates out in early August.

[bigmc6000]

Originally Posted by Cubert

Why does Apple wait so late into the back-to-school buying season to update their lines? Most kids are back at college by Labor Day and have bought everything they need. They should get these updates out in early August.

That's exactly why - that's the best way to get rid of old stock They never release new iPods before the last week or two of the back to school promo at the very earliest.

[fraklinc]

It's going to be real interesting what they decide to do, if you Price a ipod touch at $199 it's going to kill the entire ipod Nano line and the classic as well, it will also kill the zune and almost every player price around that range

[bigmc6000]

Originally Posted by fraklinc

It's going to be real interesting what they decide to do, if you Price a ipod touch at $199 it's going to kill the entire ipod Nano line and the classic as well, it will also kill the zune and almost every player price around that range

not if they drop the 4GB nano to 99, 8GB nano to 149 and the 2GB shuffle is 49 and the 4GB is 79 :-D

But yeah, I think the idea is to kill the Classic altogether.

[Messiah]

I think like many people, I didn't pay any attention to the iPod 'Classic' once the iPod 'Touch' was released.

I did however see a silver classic on display today, for the first time, and I was very impressed with the design. Lovely wee piece of product design.

[halhiker]

Originally Posted by Cubert

Why does Apple wait so late into the back-to-school buying season to update their lines? Most kids are back at college by Labor Day and have bought everything they need. They should get these updates out in early August.

Apple does it because they are smart. First, you get the kids back at college with everything they NEED. Then you create lust for the upcoming holiday season for them and everyone else by coming out with something they WANT.

[iVlad]

Classic should not go beyong 160Gb. That's just insane.

[Frank777]

Considering the advanced state of the trademark filings, shouldn't the new Fitness App be almost ready by now?

That certainly has the potential to send iPod Classic and Nano use soaring again.

[SpamSandwich]

Originally Posted by Galley

The classic is dead. Streaming your library over Wi-Fi, or even over the Internet is the future.

And just wait for your home iTunes library streamed to your iPhone... imagine the monthly bills then...

[SpamSandwich]

Apple wants to give all iPods access "anywhere, anytime" to the iTunes App Store, video store and music store. This can be the only logical conclusion to their 'taking a hit' in the next quarter. With this in play, Apple will be able to avoid the normal seasonal ups and downs (with something akin to a subscription model, a lesson learned from the cell phone business and music sales) and build on their already solid revenue stream from digital downloads.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by elroth

I hope they keep the current nano form factor and ramp up the storage to 32GB (I'll accept 16 grudgingly). A lot of us don't want or need to carry around video or surf the net, we just want lots of tunes (lossless tunes) in a small package.

I think 32GB is a bit much to expect when there isn't a 16GB model. I don't think Apple does any better than double the capacity any given year.

Originally Posted by mazzy

I hope they increase the Classic from 160GB to 240 or more? There are many who want to have all of their music in studios, offices, second homes and so on. Got 36,000 song loaded on and hardly any room left.

I think there's potential, but that is a lot of songs.

Originally Posted by Cubert

Why does Apple wait so late into the back-to-school buying season to update their lines? Most kids are back at college by Labor Day and have bought everything they need. They should get these updates out in early August.

iPods generally aren't used for education in itself, it's the computers they're trying to push but they give you a good deal for a computer and an iPod. Apple sells a heck of a lot more iPods from Oct-Dec than they do Jul-Sept.

Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

Apple wants to give all iPods access "anywhere, anytime" to the iTunes App Store, video store and music store. This can be the only logical conclusion to their 'taking a hit' in the next quarter.

I don't think that's the *only* logical conclusion, there are other things that could happen too.

Originally Posted by Galley

The classic is dead. Streaming your library over Wi-Fi, or even over the Internet is the future.

It's best not to pronounce something as dead until there's actually adequate replacement already in place. There's still a gap in time between the dead classic and the future of streaming everything. Internet services available to most people can't upload faster than 500kbps. Even assuming that, video streaming from a home computer isn't going to happen on 3G unless it's really cut down in data rate or you want to let it buffer. Using the radio that heavily consumes more power than just reading solid state memory.

Originally Posted by bigmc6000

Have you ever done a placebo test? I.E. Encode in 256 AAC vs Lossless and see if you can hear the difference without knowing which one you are listening to?

I ask because I've done it with a number of people and not a single person could hear a single thing when listening to the music at a normal level. (I suppose if you blasted it as loud as possible you might hear the nuances but most people don't listen to music that loud)

On what equipment?

I don't think it's supposed to be about loudness. Some frequencies are changed, merged and shifted to cut down on the data and still sound close to the same as it did before. For people with better ears and better equipment, I imagine there can be a difference.

[melgross]

Some people are making amazing demands. 32Gb Nano?

[GregAlexander]

Originally Posted by Denton

My prediction: if the Touch enters the $200 price slot it will be a Touch Nano that will replace the current Nano altogether.

I think the current Nano has its place. I like to be able to change tracks and skim podcasts without looking at the iPod while driving. Still, you may be right.

Originally Posted by Denton

How is it that Munster doesn't understand that the Touch is not a competitor of the iPhone and so doesn't need to compete with it on retail price? Does he think that people don't understand the concept of a contract and how much they end up paying over its lifetime? Does he really have that low an opinion of the average consumer?

I wish I could agree with you... part of me really wants to . I continually overestimate what consumers understand... but I'm getting closer to an accurate estimate. You, me, and half the people on this board understand that a contract COSTS money. But so many people think the iPhone is $299 and you happen to be locked into AT&T (rather than the iPhone is $699 and AT&T subsidises that with their plans.)

I expect we may see both of these rumoured possibilities:
1. Cheaper: smaller form factor as rumored for iPhone. Same resolution.
2. Same price or more: larger form factor (2.5 times larger) as rumoured every couple of months.

I'm hoping for a larger iPod Touch, with the same features as now but add BLUETOOTH so I can connect to the internet via my Nokia.

Originally Posted by bigmc6000

Have you ever done a placebo test? I.E. Encode in 256 AAC vs Lossless and see if you can hear the difference without knowing which one you are listening to?

That's called a "blind" test. :-)

And a double blind test is where the person running the experiment doesn't know which one he's using, nor does the test-taker.

[Restalot]

Originally Posted by mazzy

I hope they increase the Classic from 160GB to 240 or more? There are many who want to have all of their music in studios, offices, second homes and so on. Got 36,000 song loaded on and hardly any room left.

Wow, at $0.99 per song, (or $9.99 per CD you've bought over the years), that is a huge investment in music... of course you would never consider securing a copy of music for yourself without compensating the artist in some way... would you?

[hobBIT]

Originally Posted by Galley

The classic is dead. Streaming your library over Wi-Fi, or even over the Internet is the future.

Great! And that works on every single train, plane and subway? You know, places where I like to listen to music.

Streaming is limited to places with good reception. In the middle of no where or in places where 3G (or even EDGE) doesn't work - it is useless.
You know how many times I'm annoyed because I can't check a web page or even just my email due to poor reception? If that would suddenly also apply to all my music I'd be upset.

No, it's not the future - certainly not the near future.

[MiMac]

The Classic is dead? Bullshit!
Apple kill the classic at their peril.
Reason? At the price point it is a killer piece of kit and a best seller.

Keep the classic (in a similar form) and ramp up the storage I say!
Why? Because at last count I personally have 49702 tracks in my library and am looking for a bigger iPod. That may sound excessive but it certainly is not uncommon. Many of my friends have very large music libraries and they ain't gonna reduce them anytime soon.

"Streaming your library over Wi-Fi, or even over the Internet is the future". That may be the 'future' but at the 'present' that kind of access to a remote library over internet is mega expensive and not that practical. Forget about Wi-fi while traveling around with your iPod. Too flaky.

I bought my girlfriend an 8gb Nano recently and, while not a massive fan of music in general, she complains that there is not enough space for all the tracks she wants! Similarly some of her work colleagues also have 8gb Nanos and they concur. More space for tracks! The ipod touch is too expensive and includes features that they do not want or need. An iPod that does music and does it well, that's what they want. No bells and whistles thank you very much!

[melgross]

Originally Posted by GregAlexander

That's called a "blind" test. :-)

And a double blind test is where the person running the experiment doesn't know which one he's using, nor does the test-taker.

The timing of this is funny. Today, I had a long discussion with a fellow audiophile about blind and double blind testing. Like most audiophiles, he didn't understand it. Unlike most audiophiles, he was willing to agree that the results would mean something.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by Restalot

Wow, at $0.99 per song, (or $9.99 per CD you've bought over the years), that is a huge investment in music... of course you would never consider securing a copy of music for yourself without compensating the artist in some way... would you?

Many of us have hundreds or thousands of LP's and CD's.

I have over 1,800 LPs which I've been slowly digitizing. I have a couple of hundred reel to reel tapes, most of which have been digitized. I also have about a thousand CDs, many of which are on my computer now.

I know many people with far more.

How about you?

[kenaustus]

I believe that the Classic will stay on the market because it is the only one with the drive space that it provides.

I'm one that used the HD feature to use the largest part of my Classic for data backup when traveling on business. Longest flights were in the 14 - 15 hour range and the Classic was perfect - both a backup and an iPod.

For others it's carrying around their full CD collection (as well as their friends) and for others it can be a backup for their pic collection, etc.

If it sells at a profit then keep it, or put the HD in a touch to replace it. Capacity has its place in the mobile market.

[cameronj]

Originally Posted by melgross

Many of us have hundreds or thousands of LP's and CD's.

I have over 1,800 LPs which I've been slowly digitizing. I have a couple of hundred reel to reel tapes, most of which have been digitized. I also have about a thousand CDs, many of which are on my computer now.

I know many people with far more.

How about you?

In that case I'd say the OP's point stands... That's a HUGE investment in music!

1800 albums, I have no idea how much things like that cost, not to mention inflation adjusted, but I have to imagine that amount of music could have bought you a mid-range car, or a couple hundred shares of Microsoft in the 70s

[GregAlexander]

Originally Posted by kenaustus

I believe that the Classic will stay on the market because it is the only one with the drive space that it provide.

I'm actually surprised that it's not marketed as the perfect companion for a MacBook Air.

Better yet - currently with iTunes we have our whole library on the computer (say 40GB for example) and sync a smaller amount to our iPod Nano (say 7GB). It's a pity that we can't have our whole library on our iPod Classic (say 40GB) and sync a smaller amount to our MacBook (7GB).

Turn the model on its head. Make the classic the device where all our media is stored and free up space on the computer.

(ps. Same could work for the 160GB AppleTV. Use that as the media repository, sync a subset to your laptop).