G5 Rumors

[quote]Originally posted by MacAddict:
<strong>To open up FH, let us discuss the new G5 rumors circulating.

I say I want one. You?</strong><hr></blockquote>I want one as well.

I would have to say that the "source" at MOSR has a big head now. He likes that his stories have made it to the front page, so he has become a little overzealous. G6 & G7? C'mon.

And the info seems a little detailed for a mole. Giving exact times of when things arrived and that he was there on a Saturday?

MOSR is at it again.

[quote]Just three weeks ago, Steve Jobs said "I am going to sue the ass of those guys at Motorola. At the last minute, they f*cked us up. They told us we would have 1Ghz G4's, and days before Macworld, the ****ers told us there was a defect which would cause them to fail above 900Mhz." <hr></blockquote>

That sounds a bit fake to me.

I'm still chugging away here on my PowerBook G3/500.

I'm not expecting the G5s anytime soon, I believe Apple is aiming for a July 2002 introduction. The G4 has more juice in it still.

I'm one of the believers. I think the G5 is coming out January. In fact, I even posted about it when AI was up before. I'm so sure it will be released then, I'll bet my post count.

I say January; they COULD be out by then. It really depends on whether Apple wants the power out there, or whether they wanna milk the G4 for all the cash they can. I don't think they'll sell many more with the advent of the G5 possibly so close.

agree with Cipher.

I say they're milking it for a while longer. Although introducing a 1.2GHz G5 - breaking the 1GHz barrier - has a special ring to it.

Regarding:

[quote]Just three weeks ago, Steve Jobs said "I am going to sue the ass of those guys at Motorola. At the last minute, they f*cked us up. They told us we would have 1Ghz G4's, and days before Macworld, the ****ers told us there was a defect which would cause them to fail above 900Mhz." <hr></blockquote>

I take it that mosr's "source" is sitting under Steve's desk, privy to all his most private conversations.

Some say that mosr's source is actually Apple non-employee Mea D. Ersass.

Anone else have confirmation on this rumor?

Well, hopefully we'll see the G5 in January with speeds well above a ghz if MacEdition is right; they've had an amazing track record for rumors so far.

The only smidgen of truth in that whole mess, as far as I can tell, is the aggressive processor revision strategy. That was the original strategy behind the PPC. It allows for more elegant chip designs than, say, the P4, which made some bizarre compromises in the name of long-term scalability. Think about how quickly AIM went from the 601 to the 604ev.

Not having to support a bizarrely-designed CISC ISA doesn't hurt, either.

Other than that, it looks like a lot of handwaving. That Steve "quote" is painfully fake, notwithstanding the attempt to make it sound authentic by peppering it with cuss words.

I say it will be out n january with an entirely new mobo because we have been stuck with 133 SDRAM for over a year now this is going to be like staying at the 500 mark. If we are so inovative than wh the hell don't we have PC 2100 or RDRAM? this would also bost the performace of either the G4 or G5 just lilke the 1.2 tbird with RDRAM that thing flys. WE NEED better ram and Mobo arcitechure more than a ghz.

My sources report that it is more likely that the G5 will be delayed until Apple is done creating their Raycer graphics processor.

G5, xmas 2002! Watch it happen.
The prediction was for late 2002, and it makes sense. Apple will want to run the G4 up to 1GHz and a little further and then start the G5s up at around 1.2 GHz.


Does anyone know any details about its data or address buses?

Nice to be back, but all the blasted prestige is gone.

There is a strange assumption in this thread.

"Apple wants to milk the G4 for a bit longer"

Two problems with this:-

1. You must make hardware sales

2.I don't believe that a faster chip will cost more to fabricate. It is the yeild that will largly determine the price.

If they can manufcature a range of faster processors at similar yeilds they will do so without uping the price.

One caveat, if the roumers at MOSR were true, a 2.4GHZ G5. Apple would want to milk a premium price for the fastest desktop for a while. But volume is what is needed and without volume sales Apple will die. It is as important to Apple to provide the fastest processors as it is to us.

Apple will sell the fastest kit it can make.

[quote]Originally posted by JW Pepper:
<strong>There is a strange assumption in this thread.

"Apple wants to milk the G4 for a bit longer"

Two problems with this:-

1. You must make hardware sales

2.I don't believe that a faster chip will cost more to fabricate. It is the yeild that will largly determine the price.

If they can manufcature a range of faster processors at similar yeilds they will do so without uping the price.

One caveat, if the roumers at MOSR were true, a 2.4GHZ G5. Apple would want to milk a premium price for the fastest desktop for a while. But volume is what is needed and without volume sales Apple will die. It is as important to Apple to provide the fastest processors as it is to us.

Apple will sell the fastest kit it can make.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, they may not want to just to try to avoid the whole 500mhz fiasco; saving some room to grow.

I dont think Apple are (nor should they be) comfortable with releasing a G5 model so late next year.
If they release a 1.2, or even 1.6gig G5 next xmas, who's to say the standard intel will run at over twice that in clock speeds, and even if the G5s can hold their own fine with the intels, is that good enough for our computer of choice?

When the G4s came out, they were MHZ wise close enough to the wintel world that the G4s architecture and altivec capabilities really made the word PowerMac mean something again.. now although a 866 can outrun a 1.4 wintel in certain tests, and it will also cost you as much as buying a couple of said wintels for one Powermac.

What I'm saying is that Apple NEEDS to have a new system that not only stands up next to wintel boxes quite well, but one that hands down kicks the living crap out of the competition and that deserves the PowerMac name. I want to see a Macworld where the Mhz Myth ISN'T explained, because the evidence that the new Macs are faster will be so crystal clear that Michael Dell will be dropping bunny turds for months on end.

Although I don't like having to wait for months (Ti Book) after a Macworld hardware announcement to get the gear in my hands, its still better than not knowing when Apple will release its "Next Big Thing"

I hope the G5's come in January, but I think they'll be announce at earliest at MWNY 2002.

i'm thinking MWNY 2002, but hoping MWSF.....i just hope that they continue with DUAL PROCESSORS......atleast, hopefully, in the high end model

Welcome back AI, it's been a long time. Maybe too long. People don't seem to be rushing back too soon.

As far as the G5 goes, I'm selling my G4/450 now in anticipation of the G5 in January.... I hope. Here's what I'm looking for:

G5 Chip starting @ 1.2 Ghz, mid range 1.4 and hopefully topping out at 1.6 Ghz as the Mot updates have been reporting.

DDR 266Mhz memory bus speed.

Fire Wire @800Mb and USB 2.0 as well. We can't be left out of the latest.

Hopefully the return of ATI with the Radeon 8500 64 MB DDR Memory.

That's all I can think of right now. I hope the price point is lowered like the PB's have been to remain competitive. It seems that they're going to be updating the LCD panels at this time as well. Whether or not it's just a cosmetic change to compliment the new G5 look or the larger size offerings.... Like a new 18" and 24" cinema display that had been talked about. This would be interesting to see if they could replace the 22" at the same price point would be the telling issue. Well, the ball is in your court. Any thought's?

Godzappa, the Mhz myth is very well explained.

If the public does not want to believe that processor efficiency is the generally important factor then thats life unless Apple is going to release a string of advertisements going through that.


Apple's G4 line currently stands up to the Pentium 4 as well as it needs to. The G4 is more efficient by a large margin being that the P4's behemoth pipeline depth squanders every single piece of special gadgtery they shoved in it.

The P4 is a makerting tool, and not as efficient as the P3! As long as Intel can lap up the masses with the MHZ myth, and Apple keeps falling over itself...we'll see whats up now that Motorolas outta the way....the fest will continue.


How does one stupify the messgae of efficiency enough so that the public would buy it?

Well, Im holding my breath for the G5 to be introduced at MWSF, and Im with those of you who believe it will.

Here's what I'm looking for:

1.2 SP, 1.6 SP, 1.4 MP GHz G5
128, 256, 512 MB DDR RAM
60, 80, 100 GB hard drive
DVD/CD-RW, DVD-RW, DVD-RW
GeForce3 Ti 200, GeForce3, GeForce3 Ti 500
Firewire 2 and USB 2
new glossy black enclosure with 2 full drive bays
$1699, $2499, $3499

G5's in March 2002
in 1.2, 1.6, 2 GHz speeds
Wait and See

[quote]<strong>Originally posted by Steve Jobs (iCEO):

YAY G5s!!! They are teh win! My G5s eat Pentium 4s for LUNCH! Intel has got vacuum pow4r, AND I WHIPE MY ASS WITH PENTIUM 4s DOOD!!!!1</strong><hr></blockquote>

A shocking and cryptic message from Steve himself. :eek: :eek:

Monkey, I agree with you. My point wasn't that the MHZ Myth isn't real, but that the G5 is our best hope of giving Apple the boost it needs.

My 2 year old G4 is still going strong after friends' PCs bought at the same time are being used as door stops, but we're preaching to the preachers here...

Steve explaining the Myth at every macworld isnt helping anyone, 99% of the people watching know this already. But we also know that even though the G4 (and G3) processors are much more superior in their architecture, they are also suffering in development of faster chips, mainly due to minute developing funding when compared to say Intel, who have much deeper pockets than Apple, and who do not need to rely on third parties such as IBM or Moto to develop the chips.

But another reason we need the G5s is to gain access to current standards in high end PCs (high end as in those over the 1000 buck mark) such as 400mhz system buses and heaven forbid even DDR ram

Many of those who have seen and used OSX realize the power of the OS and the Mac itself, but when looking at prices, don't find many of the standards found in the PC world available for the Mac and usually at much less $.
I really think we wont see a major architectural change in the Powermac until the G5, so its certainly a case of the sooner the better...

P.S. I WANT ATI CARDS AGAIN! Why the Radeon hasnt been a BTO in months is incredible.. I know that Steve got peeved at ATI, but their cards are proven superior in many areas (mainly 2D = Macs are huge in what field?) and we should at least have them as an option to the GeForce's...

gimmie my G5

[quote]P4's behemoth pipeline depth squanders every single piece of special gadgtery they shoved in it.
<hr></blockquote>

Nonsense.

[quote]The P4 is a makerting tool, and not as efficient as the P3! As long as Intel can lap up the masses with the MHZ myth<hr></blockquote>

The P4 is far superior to the P3. It is accurate to say it lags in IPC on legacy code, but the P4 wasn't made for legacy code or the .18 micron process it is being manufactured on.

i'll take two . . .

under the hood


:cool:

Heh - get tired of the ArsTechnica boards JFW?

BTW, while there are some real kludges in the P4, JFW is correct that it's not like Intel's been throwing the billions in R&D into a hole you know - the G4 design is over three years old, and needs to be refreshed soon. It is getting humiliated in the SPEC benchmarks, and while not a bad design at the time, Moto's sh**y manufacturing tech has really held it back from its potential. Hopefully Moto will get its act together for the g5...

[quote]Originally posted by JFW:
<strong>

The P4 is far superior to the P3. It is accurate to say it lags in IPC on legacy code, but the P4 wasn't made for legacy code or the .18 micron process it is being manufactured on.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Anyone waiting for a G5 out needs to be slapped. They haven't even finished revising the chip and somehow it is going to be out by January? Yeah right...

You guys are going to be profoundly disappointed in January then because Apple has produced nothing but incremental improvements for ages now.

Here is what I predict will happen.

Duel 1 gig G4 high end
933 g4 mid range
867 g4 new low end

more screaming and cursing from Mac masses as Apple refuses to give a nickle anyplace in their line up and decide to still leave the 867 with no level 3 cache. First two levels have superdrives and benevolet Apple decides to finally give low end a DVD/CDR drive which everyone immediately complains has a slow write speed.

Because of the terrible economic climate, slowing sales, and everyone screaming that their 30%+ profit rate, Apple finally lops $100 off the entire line which has everyone singing gloriously because the Pro line now starts at a whole $1599 again.(Still no DDR and still GF2mx card though they bump them to 64 megs and twin view across the line)

The iMac line has abysmal sales but Apple refuses to give up the 15 inch model because they know it would bite into the sales of the ridiculously overpriced towers. There are some small concessions however in an attempt to bring up sales.

iMac@700, 800 and 900 (yes still 100 mhz bus)
15inch monitor (yes, still no lcd)
32 meg gf2mx200 (lower speed MX)
cd-r with dvd/cd-r option available

In a move to boost iMac sales, Apple will finally allow video out and not just mirroring on the iMac. The Gf2mx card supports this natively and Apple looks like a genius for shipping it. Steve Jobs declares another innovation because now the entire line has duel display support.

Pricing is $699 (low end education version)$899,999, and $1099 with $125 more being charged for BTO combo DVD,CD-R drive. Everyone is a little pissed because Apple is overcharging for the drive, some declare that Apple is justified, other declare they will buy a firewire enclosure and drive at their local computer show.

Trumptman

To quote a wise man at MOSR:

so as with all rumors, trust no one

[ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: murk ]</p>

But aren't most rumors based on in-the-ball-park info? These rumors are not only saying that the G5 will debut in jan but also that they will be high ghz speeds.

Well, it's nice to dream, I hope it's based on some evidence.

If Steve Jobs can get a G5 out at MWSF he will. It would kick start the desktop sales. You could see following for Pro desktop, top dual 1.4GHz G5 ($$$$) single 1.6GHz G5 ($$$) dual 1GHz G4 ($$) and the low end Pro desktop a 1.2GHz G4 ($). This would allow them promote a new generation of chips and still use the G4 until it moves to the consumer line.

As far as the post about the iMac.....you will see a LCD iMac......Steve is probably fuming that Gateway is selling a compleate pc with lcd for $999.99. You will probably see three imac 700 Mhz to 1GHz....may be SE with a G4 w/ SuperDrive.

I just think Apple needs to moving desktops....

[quote]Originally posted by BostonMJH:
<strong>If Steve Jobs can get a G5 out at MWSF he will. It would kick start the desktop sales. You could see following for Pro desktop, top dual 1.4GHz G5 ($$$$) single 1.6GHz G5 ($$$) dual 1GHz G4 ($$) and the low end Pro desktop a 1.2GHz G4 ($). This would allow them promote a new generation of chips and still use the G4 until it moves to the consumer line.

As far as the post about the iMac.....you will see a LCD iMac......Steve is probably fuming that Gateway is selling a compleate pc with lcd for $999.99. You will probably see three imac 700 Mhz to 1GHz....may be SE with a G4 w/ SuperDrive.

I just think Apple needs to moving desktops....</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes, but gateway has sold a all-in-one lcd model before and it was a flop. And poor quality at that. Apples will actually be in demand.

I don't think there is any doubt in my mind... We will see a G5 at MWSF. And we will see a LCD iMac. These two rumors I'm certain.

Whistler said:
[quote]Heh - get tired of the ArsTechnica boards JFW?<hr></blockquote>

Funny as it sounds, most of the people I get tired of are probably here as well &lt;jest&gt;

Actually, my account on AI goes back to December 99, before I registered with Ars.