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post #281 of 484
oh and those people who are talking about how MWNY 2001 was the worst macworld ever obvously don't remember the one where Gates' face appeared on the screen
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post #282 of 484
I doubt very much that the G4 Apollo is what Steve Jobs was refering to when he stated that Apple will close the MHz gap by late 2001.

Apollo is just a die shrink and it seems that the priority was to reduce power consumption more than increase performance. Remember that when the x86 processors go .13, they will likely leave Apollo in the dust.

No way Apollo was meant to compete with the P4 and Athlon XP. It is designed to kick mobile Pentium butt. Had Apple wanted to take on the P4 and Athlon XP with Apollo then surely they would have taken advantage of the die shrink to beef up the FP unit (which is currently woeful) and implement a larger L2 cache.
post #283 of 484
YOu know I thought that too. How could apollo compete with the new processors coming out. I don't believe it can either. The way it looks now though it will have too.
post #284 of 484
[quote]And another thing, a lot of people seem to believe the G5 will be 64bit. Look at Motorola's roadmap <a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/collateral/PPCRMAP.pdf" target="_blank">http://e-www.motorola.com/collateral/PPCRMAP.pdf</a>

"32 & 64 bit products"<hr></blockquote>
Right. Exactly. The G5 will be 32 bits.... in the embedded market. Look at the g5 class that moto just announced. Its for the embedded market. Its 32 bit. Its altivec-less. Thats why the roadmap says what it does.
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post #285 of 484
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post #286 of 484
[quote]Originally posted by rickag:
<strong>http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2001dec/bma20011203009125.htm

Another unconfirmed rumor.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, after reading the article-WOW. But, has that ever been done before? A Moto employee leaking a roadmap to a rumor/news site? Just the line "..we at Moto are pleased to say.." Would you leak info with a sentece like that? I know you would want to confirm where you work to legtamize the info, but it sounds too blatant to me. Dunno, eveything is getting confusing now.

We have the G4 which tops out a 1ghz, the Apollo was supposed to be for portables, the Apollo may be the next tower chip but still tops out at 1ghz. Then we have the G5 which is for networks and maybe towers. It won't be ready, it will be ready.

So you're telling me that in Jan we will see the towers at 933, 1.0ghz and dual 933? I don't see how people think we will get a 1.2 or 1.4 G4 Apollo when everything says it tops out at 1.0ghz. So then this show will suck, only 67mhz increase? Even if to hold off 6 months till July for the G5, it's still gonna suck.

Getting depressed

[edit: fixed too-wide URL - UBB apparently can't handle &lt;URL&gt; tags in quotes?? -Amorph]

[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
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post #287 of 484
[quote]Originally posted by rickag:
<strong>http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2001dec/bma20011203009125.htm

Another unconfirmed rumor.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Total BS!!......there will be NO! G5 at MWSF '02!

[edit: fixed too-wide URL -Amorph]

[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
post #288 of 484
[quote]Originally posted by Phrogman:
<strong>

Total BS!!......there will be NO! G5 at MWSF '02!</strong><hr></blockquote>

It's ok man, you don't need to get o upset
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post #289 of 484
mm, a lot more people are starting to chime in about no G5 in Jan. This is from yourdailymac-

[quote] We got this e-mail today about the future of the G5, it is from a source close to YDM:

I would have to take this into consideration but things are delicate at the moment. I would prefer to have my exposure minimized. But I will tell you one thing concerning future PowerMac plans; I am almost certain there will be no G5 this January. It is almost certain the new machines will be G4's with better bus and process technology. Presently the 7450 only supports 133MHz at 64bits but the 7460 among other things will have a wider throughput and the ability to double pump. I will see
what other details can be safely given with out any compromise.
<hr></blockquote>
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post #290 of 484
Two conflicting rumors:

Faster G4s
G5s

All part of the Steve Jobs Fog.

I'd be willing to bet that half the "rumors" are actually disinformation leaks.
post #291 of 484
[quote]Originally posted by Bozo the Clown:
<strong>Two conflicting rumors:

Faster G4s
G5s

All part of the Steve Jobs Fog.

I'd be willing to bet that half the "rumors" are actually disinformation leaks.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Don't forget the plain "Fast G4s" no guarantee that the G4s will be "faster" in Jan, not if the G4s top out at 1.0ghz. That's the 3 conflicting reports.
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post #292 of 484
Why did Motorola bother with the 7441/7451?

As I understand it, it these to "new" chips supports a slightly better 2-level cache algorithm than the 7440/7450.
post #293 of 484
WOW :eek: doesn't due justice to this rumor.

Actually, I posted that link to Geek.com because, of all the rumors about the G5, this seems the most blatant line of bologna.

But it sure is a whole lot better than Motorola's roadmap. If your wishing, might as well wish for the moon.

Just an adendum: I personally don't think we'll see a G5 in a computer @ least until the 4th quarter of (edit)NEXT year, if then. Remember the MPC8540 won't even be sampling until the 2nd quarter of (edit)NEXT year and it is a MUCH less complicated processor than any desktop CPU.

[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: rickag ]

[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: rickag ]</p>
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post #294 of 484
I think we have been fools long enough. All these rumors are probably from a bunch of Wintel users jerking us around and having fun at our expense.

It's time we wise up and just appreciate the great product that is Macintosh.
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post #295 of 484
[quote]Originally posted by NeoMac:
<strong>I think we have been fools long enough. All these rumors are probably from a bunch of Wintel users jerking us around and having fun at our expense.

It's time we wise up and just appreciate the great product that is Macintosh.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I will/would if the new G4s have DDR and a faster bus
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post #296 of 484
[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong>

Well, after reading the article-WOW. But, has that ever been done before? A Moto employee leaking a roadmap to a rumor/news site? Just the line "..we at Moto are pleased to say.." Would you leak info with a sentece like that? I know you would want to confirm where you work to legtamize the info, but it sounds too blatant to me. Dunno, eveything is getting confusing now.

We have the G4 which tops out a 1ghz, the Apollo was supposed to be for portables, the Apollo may be the next tower chip but still tops out at 1ghz. Then we have the G5 which is for networks and maybe towers. It won't be ready, it will be ready.

So you're telling me that in Jan we will see the towers at 933, 1.0ghz and dual 933? I don't see how people think we will get a 1.2 or 1.4 G4 Apollo when everything says it tops out at 1.0ghz. So then this show will suck, only 67mhz increase? Even if to hold off 6 months till July for the G5, it's still gonna suck.

Getting depressed

[edit: fixed too-wide URL - UBB apparently can't handle &lt;URL&gt; tags in quotes?? -Amorph]

[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: Amorph ]</strong><hr></blockquote>


A 67mhz increase....or even a 100mhz increase will be a ****ing joke.

I love the "F-bomb censor"....it is my third time tonight using it!
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post #297 of 484
[quote]Originally posted by SDW2001:
<strong>


A 67mhz increase....or even a 100mhz increase will be a ****ing joke.

I love the "F-bomb censor"....it is my third time tonight using it!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yea, that's why I'm starting to get depressed. I would love for Apple to release a faster G4 with DDR and faster bus, I would be ELATED if they released a G5.

But, if the G4 tops at 1.0ghz and we see how the last show was then we should expect the top of the line to bethe same old G4 running at 1.0ghz.

forgive my happiness
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post #298 of 484
People, People

There is no way that a g5 is shipping within the next 6 months. If there was a brand new PPC chip architecture on the market there would be tons more people with eval systems. Testing a new Chip, Chipset and Mobo is way to complicated to have be entirely tested in house. I remember when the G4 was being introduced multiple people were reporting using a test system.

All i here about the G5 is BullDooDoo from the same jackOff. If I were to wager a dollar I would bet that the "source" is the guy at <a href="http://www.ihateapple.com." target="_blank">www.ihateapple.com.</a> I bet he is ROTFL every day at the stupid nonesense, hope and desperation.
post #299 of 484
applenut is saying that he has heard from a very reliable "source" that G5's are definitely coming out at MWSF and the iMacs will G4's.

Beat that with a stick....


Also, I have heard rumors there may be up to 1200 test machines out there.....that sounds a bit high though....
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post #300 of 484
It's really impossible to gauge the likelihood of the G5 being released by just trying to see if there are a lot of test units out or not. Fact is, if you're not a developer or someone critical to Apple, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO KNOW. :eek: Apple's NDAs are a very powerful tool. Original iMac, PowerMac G4, iPod... all of these projects took us by surprise, and we never heard anything about test units.
The iPod began development in January! How many people knew a thing about it then?
Nobody here really knows how long Apple has been working with the G5 except for Steve Jobs and the G5 engineers. Period.
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post #301 of 484
The fact that we don't have G5 confirmation (I almost typed "Coformation;" must be getting close to MacWorld ) Doesn't mean squat. The fact that the rumor hasn't been squashed means the possibility exists.

I think Jobs and Co, spread conflicting leaks (these things that yourdailymac prints and stuff from other sites I never hear about except when there's less than a month to go before MW). By doing that, they is know way we can know for sure. I'm sure the disinformation leaks are coming from "sources close to Apple." That should make you even more suspicious.

Arghhhhhh! We don't really know anything, unless rumors get specifically denied (which does happen). That's all I'm trying to say!
post #302 of 484
Just a thought -

What about the nomenclature?

Motorola hasn't denied the existence of the 8540. Is it unreasonable to assume that the initial G5 type 8500 (or whatever) is actually out there sampling? (I know that the difference is large - 8540 is embedded etc) but it is interesting.

Also, the fact that the 'G5 is progressing well' and there has been no denial from Motorola or Apple about the application also yields some hope for the debut at SF. Remember all the rumors about the Xbox and the M$ denials of same - 'we have no intention of entering the console market at this time' (or something similar)?
post #303 of 484

you are 100% !!! a weeny 67mhz increase....or even a 100mhz increase will be a ****ing joke.
I expect a better speed bump.
And for crissake a revised moto with a faster bus and DDR!!!
post #304 of 484
posted by Mike D in another thread
[quote]fuel to the fire

E-week article

very interesting comments on the changes within the G4 line as compared to the p2 and p3 <hr></blockquote>

I still like Geek.com's roadmap much better
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post #305 of 484
Think of it like this, folks. Here we are, all of us speculating that the G5 will or will not be out there in January. Has anyone bothered to think WHY the NY expo was such a flop?? Let me give you an idea...

The G5 archeticture was coming along, then all of the sudden a snaffoo. This happens during the development process. Th G5 was going to be their baby, and the one to get the crowd really excited. However, they don't have that now. All they have is a new case. That isn't going to sell at all. So they punted. They put faster G4s in there, as well as made a "new" iMac enclosure (notice nothing new about them, just a comeback of Snow) with slightly faster speeds. Everyone was dissapointed, including me.

But now I look back, and I begin to speculate that maybe it was because the G5 wasn't ready then. If that is in fact the case, then they would have had an additional SIX MONTHS to fix all of the bugs and start ramping up production. This seems to be the most likely of all scenerios. This is why NY sucked, and this is why SF will have both the iMac Revisited and then new G5.

BTW, I have no sources, only my gut.

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post #306 of 484
[quote]Originally posted by Mike Eggleston:
<strong>Think of it like this, folks. Here we are, all of us speculating that the G5 will or will not be out there in January. Has anyone bothered to think WHY the NY expo was such a flop?? Let me give you an idea...

The G5 archeticture was coming along, then all of the sudden a snaffoo. This happens during the development process. Th G5 was going to be their baby, and the one to get the crowd really excited. However, they don't have that now. All they have is a new case. That isn't going to sell at all. So they punted. They put faster G4s in there, as well as made a "new" iMac enclosure (notice nothing new about them, just a comeback of Snow) with slightly faster speeds. Everyone was dissapointed, including me.

But now I look back, and I begin to speculate that maybe it was because the G5 wasn't ready then. If that is in fact the case, then they would have had an additional SIX MONTHS to fix all of the bugs and start ramping up production. This seems to be the most likely of all scenerios. This is why NY sucked, and this is why SF will have both the iMac Revisited and then new G5.

BTW, I have no sources, only my gut. </strong><hr></blockquote>


no, NY sucked because everyone was expecting much too much and it wasn't realistic for that moment.

I doubt the G5 was ever meant to be released there.
post #307 of 484
G5 last NY? Probably not...though possible. I actually think it is the iMac that wasn't ready. Or, they may have decided not to release it in a bad economy....a debatable but OK idea.
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post #308 of 484
[quote]Originally posted by rickag:
[qb]Question


Some where I read that from start to finish it takes 50-60 days to manufacture microprocessors. Ass-u-me the Register article is true, then the first volume production G5's will be ready to ship when......about the end of Jan. right. Please correct me if I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.<hr></blockquote>

60 days is a pretty good general guess at the minimum amount of cycle time for a processor witht that many metal levels. Maybe even a little more.

[quote]Any one know what ultrascalar means?<hr></blockquote>
Never heard of it in regards to general architecture. A group from Yale seemed to coin the phrase in an effort to design a high clock speed high issue width processor. Usually you make a tradeoff in IPC for clockspeed. Performance = IPC x Clockspeed. Ultrascalar in this context would be a processor that could greatly increase both it seems.

[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: Eskimo ]</p>
post #309 of 484
Thanks Eskimo

Then, just based on The Register's initial article(based on an email) the G5 couldn't be ready to even ship to Apple before middle to late Jan.

I'm hoping for Apollo manufactured using HiP7(0.13µ and SOI) and DDRsram

I'm expecting Apollo manufactured w/ SOI and the same 133MHz bus

regardless, I'll be buying in Jan.
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post #310 of 484
I still don't see why Steve couldn't announce the G5s and have them shipping in February, as he did with the Titanium and 733 Mhz G4.
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post #311 of 484
Tarbash
I bet if he could he would just as in the past. I am not counting on it though, because I don't think the G5 will be ready until 3rd or 4th quarter of 2002.

Hope I'm completely wrong, but I'll still be happy with whatever computer I buy in Jan.
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post #312 of 484
In the summer of '99, before the G4 was released, a prominent Apple employee was quoted saying he didn't think the G4 would see the light of day before mid-2000....
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post #313 of 484
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>


no, NY sucked because everyone was expecting much too much and it wasn't realistic for that moment.

I doubt the G5 was ever meant to be released there.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Isn't that what's happening now? As I gather, everybody here seems to have argued out basically 3 scenarios that will happen powermacwise.

1. No G5, G4 topping out at 1gig. Mobo w/ DDR.

2. Apollo 1Ghz, 1.2Ghz, 1.4 Ghz. Dual 1.2 and 1.4 if fabs are good. Mobo w/DDR & 1394b.

3. G5 1.2Ghz, 1.4 Ghz, 1.6Ghz. Mobo w/ DDR, 1394b/400Mhz bus/RapidIO/etc.

The majority consensus seems to be that #3 either will happen or needs to happen or Apple is DOA. Granted that #1 would indeed be a disappointment, if G5's don't appear (my bet is March with 10.2), what's so bad about #2?

The dual 800 is a damn fine machine, and unless you want to talk about rendering, or computing the hypernegativegravometricfulx of a twinkee in a black hole, or getting 11 billion fps in Quake3, I would stack a dual 1.2Ghz Apollo G4 against a P4 2.0/2/4 any day. I have worked on a P4 1.8. Guess what? Windows still sucks. It only sucks faster. It doesn't bother me that we aren't neck and neck with the P4. I think PMQS's are fast and I love 10.1.

I don't know when the G5's will be out, but I'm pretty sure that when they do life will be good. I would rather have them come out after MWSF and be perfect than rushing out a G4.5 or a G5 celeron. (God forbid that a computer maker that has less than 5% market doesn't have the fastest os/processor of all time, all the time.) Until then, I think some people need to ease up on Apple. It's not like they're sitting around the boardroom table playing cards waiting for Mot/IBM to plod along. They are doing the best they can.

Constructive/creative G5 discussion is great, but if they are a no show, I hope this doesn't turn into the Apple sucks board. (At least no more than normal! )

I'm done.
post #314 of 484
I honestly have faith in Applenut's "source", as well as Applenut himself.

G4 iMacs and PowerMac G5s at MWSF.

Steve's opening quote:
"We want to start this year with an even bigger bang than we had last year, and we're going to do a leapfrog in design and performance."
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post #315 of 484
[quote]Originally posted by opuscroakus:
<strong>
I don't know when the G5's will be out, but I'm pretty sure that when they do life will be good. I would rather have them come out after MWSF and be perfect than rushing out a G4.5 or a G5 celeron. (God forbid that a computer maker that has less than 5% market doesn't have the fastest os/processor of all time, all the time.) Until then, I think some people need to ease up on Apple. It's not like they're sitting around the boardroom table playing cards waiting for Mot/IBM to plod along. They are doing the best they can.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

You make a very valid point. I have been a die hard fan(atic?) about the Mac ever since its introduction in 1984. I still have one of those 128K machines. And guess what, it still works. Does it have the bells and whistles of the current line? No. Why? Because we moved ahead. And we will continue to move ahead.

What we need to do as a community is stand beside our platform of choice, no matter what sh*t comes out or what blessings are bestowed. We ought to be loyal. And bashing our favorite company just looks bad for the rest of us.

I hope that the G5 comes out in January. I hope that the G4 is in the iMac. However, if those don't happen, sure I am going to be disappointed. I will not begin saying that Apple sucks, because what alternative do I have; Windows??

(P.S. Yes, I know Linux. Unix is out there. Yes, it is a great operating system. However it was not meant to be taken such that I would forget my favorite penguin. )

[ 12-08-2001: Message edited by: Mike Eggleston ]</p>

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post #316 of 484
I was talking to an elite beta tester who showed me his G5 that was in a sealed clear case. He said he also had a g6 coming. There may be hope for a g5 at MWSF.
post #317 of 484
[quote]Originally posted by byoung:
<strong>I was talking to an elite beta tester who showed me his G5 that was in a sealed clear case. He said he also had a g6 coming. There may be hope for a g5 at MWSF.</strong><hr></blockquote>

And I doubt this why?
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post #318 of 484
[quote]Originally posted by Tarbash:
<strong>I honestly have faith in Applenut's "source", as well as Applenut himself.

G4 iMacs and PowerMac G5s at MWSF.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

As much as we go at it, I have faith in him too.
G5 at MWSF.
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post #319 of 484
let me add some fuel to the speculation. a "special friend", who wouldn't bullsh*tting me, told me two hours ago that he personally saw a g5 at adobe. that was in september.
as far as he could see, the case was nothing special except that it was a beige pc-case
the main problem -at least back then- was the massive heat dissipation, which require(d) a big heatsink and vents. haven't we read elsewhere that the g5 was 196mm2? seems to fit...
post #320 of 484

I think that the main problem is that we have been stuck for too long with the G4..
All those speculations about the forthcoming hardware reveal that the majority of us really want to move ahead...
The computer industry moves at a very fast pace, the Peecee side have the DDR implemented in their system for way too long compared to the PowerMac.
I believe that a big part of us are just frustrated.
I expect a lot from the next event in San Francisco, the last show at New-York really let me down. And trust me, I did not have unrealistic expectation!! Just DDR and a chipset topping around 1GHZ. I do not think that a weenee 135 mhz speed bump and L3 backside cache in 6 months was something acceptable!!
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