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Pesky Psystar to emerge from Chapter 11 with new Mac offering - Page 3

post #81 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano_tube View Post

So where should I voice my opinion and wishes regarding Mac issues, in Paul Thurrots website?

How about simply stating your wish as a wish and not a 2 page complaint about how Apple doesn’t care about Mac people.
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post #82 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

hey I never said they were REQUIRED to suit these needs, just pointing out why it would be beneficial. The machine Psystar is selling is a clear example of the level of cost to performance that Apple is skipping.

Also, I think people joining in on this discussion begin to lose sight at the point people initially made, and the argument slowly gets twisted, and eventually the thread turns into something repetitive and moronic, so I'm ducking out.

Here's my stance for the last time: Psystar is definitely breaking the law, but their presence raises a good point. The machines they are building are attractive to many people who feel Apple either offers to much, or too little. I don't think what Pystar is doing is right, but I don't think the way Apple is doing things currently is appealing either.

Well...Apple has 30 billion in the bank because of business decisions that attract the markets that they are targeting. If they do not have any interest in targeting the market that feels they offer too much or too little that is their right as an American company. You don't have to like it. You have a right to complain. But they have a right to conduct their business in the markets of their choice. lets extend your point of view to Ferrari....they make a car that is too much for me....yet they make jackets which are not enough for me.....if they just made a Jacket and smaller more affordable version of their car as a combo package, it would sell like hot cakes.....wow, they must be idiots for not doing this righ?...lol....see my point?....Don't you think that Apple's marketing machine has had many meetings regarding exactly this topic?? Of course they have....and as any company would, they choose the most profitable options.
post #83 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano_tube View Post

So where should I voice my opinion and wishes regarding Mac issues, in Paul Thurrots website?
Basically what you are saying is that because I think different and I voice my opinion vigorously, I am a troll... ok... I bet that if you had been born in Soviet russia, you'd be a hell of a communist. Stick to the Party's line! 1984 boy....

And good for you that you found a laptop for your needs. You are an exemplary user. Bravo. W00t! solipsism FTW!

Since non of us here is on Apple's board of directors maybe you should try submitting a feedback on Apple's website. I am sure if Steve Jobs is or was posting here using an alias he would have given us free iPhones long time ago
post #84 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraBuggy View Post

LOL...you're an idiot....you just don't get it!....what if someone made an inflatable-date version of your wife and sold it for 50 bucks and everybody called it a Hackintoosh.....I bet you would have something to say about it......oh but hey.....it would "Sell like Hotcakes" right?

Talk about idiots... WTF does it have to do with the point I am trying to make?
Maaaaan, read the damn thread before ou jump into sorry ass conclusions...

Dumbass.
post #85 of 227
Um ... Dell makes AOI machines ... Sony too. Why make such a silly comparison?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Which one would she choose?! tough decision!!!

post #86 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Read through the thread before assuming what's being talked about.

You know what, you're absolutely right!

I hardly noticed that they can't even argue Psystar's legal positon anymore because they have virtually no credibility. They fall back on the old tired standby of comparing fly-by-night Psystar trash to Apple's superior Mac line, which by the way is SURGING in sales and is expriencing the smallest contraction in computer sales in the entire industry.

I guess these people think it's fun to be in the increasingly marginalized minority.
post #87 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by WPLJ42 View Post

Um ... Dell makes AOI machines ... Sony too. Why make such a silly comparison?

Maybe you should go back and read the discussion from the start
post #88 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

How about simply stating your wish as a wish and not a 2 page complaint about how Apple doesnt care about Mac people.

Because people are taking what I said out of context. All I want is a Mac between the iMac and Mac Pro, but people are twisting this into issues of supporting Psystar and inflatable dolls... as usual, people tend to have an impression of what someone is saying, and not refer to what they are actually saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Since non of us here is on Apple's board of directors maybe you should try submitting a feedback on Apple's website. I am sure if Steve Jobs is or was posting here using an alias he would have given us free iPhones long time ago

Will be interesting to see how they react (if at all).
post #89 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano_tube View Post

Talk about idiots... WTF does it have to do with the point I am trying to make?
Maaaaan, read the damn thread before ou jump into sorry ass conclusions...

Dumbass.

OK....if you insist...I'll dumb this down for you.....Apple sells an experience which is a combination of hardware and software. If Apple distributes a firmware or software update to enhance or improve the experience and Pystar users start crashing...its a bad reflection on Apple.Apple has a right to protect their brand. So, if someone were to create a cheap physical inflatable image of a person implying that it gives the same experience as the real person........the real person has a right to object. Man, I can't make it any simpler than this.

Moron!
post #90 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano_tube View Post

Because people are taking what I said out of context. All I want is a Mac between the iMac and Mac Pro, but people are twisting this into issues of supporting Psystar and inflatable dolls... as usual, people tend to have an impression of what someone is saying, and not refer to what they are actually saying.

It’s the way you stated it. If Apple releases this xMac then there will still be the “I want a Mac between the Mini and xMac” and “I want a Mac between the xMac and Mac Pro”, as well as the “It’s too much" and "it doesn’t have option that this cheaper Dell version has” and “<insert complaint here>.” Such is life. NasserAE is correct, if you want to make waves go right to the company. Apparently Steve Jobs even answers personal emails every now and then, though I’d wager that if you got a replay from Jobs stating why they don’t produce the xMac you can be certain that they are preparing to deploy one shortly.


PS: All of you stop with the personal attacks. It’s the one rule here and it’s been enforced more lately.
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post #91 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano_tube View Post

Because people are taking what I said out of context. All I want is a Mac between the iMac and Mac Pro, but people are twisting this into issues of supporting Psystar and inflatable dolls... as usual, people tend to have an impression of what someone is saying, and not refer to what they are actually saying.

The problem in your discussion was here in your first post:

Quote:
F*ck Apple, what a sorry ass bunch of thieves. Now, who has the balls to tell me that the there is no apple tax?!

This did not sound like opinion stating for most.
post #92 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Maybe you should go back and read the discussion from the start

Okay ... Still a stupid comparison. Dell makes an XPS series AOI. The soccer mom is gonna pick the computer that looks the best in her kitchen ... dummy.
post #93 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraBuggy View Post

OK....if you insist...I'll dumb this down for you.....Apple sells an experience which is a combination of hardware and software. If Apple distributes a firmware or software update to enhance or improve the experience and Pystar users start crashing...its a bad reflection on Apple.Apple has a right to protect their brand. So, if someone were to create a cheap physical inflatable image of a person implying that it gives the same experience as the real person........the real person has a right to object. Man, I can't make it any simpler than this.

Moron!

Hey dude, get off my back. I am not interested in people who do not understand plain english.
Here, I will give it to you: you win! Ok? Now get off my back with your pathetic inflatable doll whatever logic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

... though Id wager that if you got a replay from Jobs stating why they dont produce the xMac you can be certain that they are preparing to deploy one shortly.

For sure!
post #94 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by WPLJ42 View Post

Okay ... Still a stupid comparison. Dell makes an XPS series AOI. The soccer mom is gonna pick the computer that looks the best in her kitchen ... dummy.

You obviously didnt read it because NasserAE was responding to someone claiming that a soccer mom would choose a tower, not a Dell AIO, hence the comparison pic he choose. A comparison of an XPS and an XPS One would have resulted in the same win for Nassers argument.

PS: What soccer moms do you know that choose computers solely on how it looks in their kitchen? Get real!

PPS: Cool it with the personal attacks.
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post #95 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano_tube View Post

Just look at this:

$765 more for the same computer!
F*ck Apple, what a sorry ass bunch of thieves. Now, who has the balls to tell me that the there is no apple tax?!

Do you really believe that they are the same computer?

Or are you saying that all of the design, engineering and programming should be free to anyone who wants a cheap and nasty collection of parts?
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post #96 of 227
This entire post is lame. The rules of the forum also imply to profanity, yes? For me to say a soccer mom would choose a computer that looks good in her kitchen is about as intelligent as to think it would have to be a tower. Aesthetics mean something in the kitchen. Some homes are designed with a work station in the kitchen. The new AOI from Dell (19") is more than likely designed with a kitchen or two in mind. I don't know ANY female who would want any more wires than are necessary. Advantage AIO, NOT tower. I wrote a post on page one, and thought it had something to do with the original topic. As far as I can tell, nobody looked at it. Perhaps people are too busy skimming the list to see if anyone has replied to their message. Sorry if my bent sense of humor looks like an attack. Using the silly smiles all the time gets old.
post #97 of 227
So what I got from this thread is that someone posted that the Psystar computer was far cheaper than an "equivalent" Mac Pro and was proven worng in the first reply. So he shifted his argument to he doesn't need the hardware Apple has in the Mac Pro, so the Psystar was a better deal to him and Apple is somehow in the wrong for not catering to his needs. Even more pointless than I expected this thread to be.
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post #98 of 227
Derp, companies should make the exact product that I want. In a market awash with options many of which would be ideal for me.

It's also funny that people really believe that regular people (ie; people who don't know what a "browser" is, and call harddrives "memory") make their PC decisions from more than A) Does it look okay, B) Can I afford it, C) Does the Salesguy say it's fast or not.
post #99 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by WPLJ42 View Post

Okay ... Still a stupid comparison. Dell makes an XPS series AOI. The soccer mom is gonna pick the computer that looks the best in her kitchen ... dummy.

Seriously, you should go back and read the posts again. If you read it for more than three times and still don't get it then no one can really help you understand what's going on. Let me give you a hint, it was not about Mac vs PC.
post #100 of 227
Yeah, maybe I missed if someone commented on this it because it's tough to read inane comments post after post, but Apple has orders of magnitude greater costs that go into its products bottom line, from R&D, to manufacturing, to marketing, to support and service infrastructure, to physical plants and personnel, to compliance, legal, accounting, industrial design, packaging, retail suport and service centers - the list is enormous, and the profitability has to be strong for the company to grow and prosper.

But it results in (generally) an excellent customer experience in almost every way. I found out a few weeks ago I could schedule a call back from Applecare support via Apple's web site. Filled out the form, and within a few minutes of the scheduled time, I got a call back, from a US based support person who was precisely knowledgeable as to the difference between RAW and sRAW file formats and the latter not being currently supported in iPhoto and Aperture.

Make that call to Pystar, if not Dell, for that matter.

One small example, multiplied many times. It's a free market, so if Apple's too expensive, don't buy it. But I think by the time you consider all the time and money you have to invest in a PC system, Apple is a much better bargain...
post #101 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by WPLJ42 View Post

This entire post is lame. The rules of the forum also imply to profanity, yes? For me to say a soccer mom would choose a computer that looks good in her kitchen is about as intelligent as to think it would have to be a tower. Aesthetics mean something in the kitchen. Some homes are designed with a work station in the kitchen. The new AOI from Dell (19") is more than likely designed with a kitchen or two in mind. I don't know ANY female who would want any more wires than are necessary. Advantage AIO, NOT tower. I wrote a post on page one, and thought it had something to do with the original topic. As far as I can tell, nobody looked at it. Perhaps people are too busy skimming the list to see if anyone has replied to their message. Sorry if my bent sense of humor looks like an attack. Using the silly smiles all the time gets old.

The picture is not focusing on aesthetics, it focuses on simplicity for the same function and features. For the average computer user an AIO (Mac or PC) does exactly the same as a tower minus the wires hassle and wasted space (CPU and monitor). As Sol said, replace the iMac in the picture with Dells AIO and the argument still stand that AIO is better choice & this is probably why Apple is not going into the consumer side of tower computers.
post #102 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You obviously didnt read it because NasserAE was responding to someone claiming that a soccer mom would choose a tower, not a Dell AIO, hence the comparison pic he choose. A comparison of an XPS and an XPS One would have resulted in the same win for Nassers argument.

Doesn't matter, since the 20" Dell XPS sells for $1,367 and has a slower processor, smaller hard drive and weaker graphics than the $1,199 20" iMac.
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post #103 of 227
I wonder if maybe Apple should concentrate on notebook machines, since it looks like the Psystar desktop is exactly what I want.
post #104 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

It's a free market, so if Apple's too expensive, don't buy it. .


Right, but Apple is saying it is not a free market and that Mac OS X license owners do not have the freedom to use that OS on a Psystar machine. Nor does that company even have the freedom to sell its machines. So, we will see how free this market really is.
post #105 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwik View Post

Right, but Apple is saying it is not a free market and that Mac OS X license owners do not have the freedom to use that OS on a Psystar machine. Nor does that company even have the freedom to sell its machines. So, we will see how free this market really is.

No. Apple is saying you cannot install their products on machine and sell them for profit without their permission. Apple never went after individuals who install Mac OS on their hackintosh. Apple did not even mention individuals in this lawsuit.
post #106 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwik View Post

Right, but Apple is saying it is not a free market and that Mac OS X license owners do not have the freedom to use that OS on a Psystar machine. Nor does that company even have the freedom to sell its machines. So, we will see how free this market really is.

This has nothing to do with a "free market." When someone asserts the right to sell products owned by others, that's not a free market, it's a corrupt market.
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post #107 of 227
For some people, they buy a computer and never even look to see what is inside. No need. I am that way, plus I'd just break something and have to pay someone else to fix it. Others, buy a computer and can't wait to get it open. I recall that from my days at Radio Shack in the early 80's. Guys were buying and opening up the Color Computer faster than you could say, void if sticker is removed. The mini is not designed to be tinkered with, nor is the iMac. So anyone who wants a modestly priced tower must go elsewhere. Nothing has to be forever. Why doesn't Apple do what I said on page one of this thread, and use some lower priced components in the Pro box, and see if anyone bites. As I also mentioned, it is possible to buy used G5 towers at new iMac prices.
post #108 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Doesn't matter, since the 20" Dell XPS sells for $1,367 and has a slower processor, smaller hard drive and weaker graphics than the $1,199 20" iMac.

Didn't they move to a low-power desktop-grade CPU? Regardless, I'd expect Dell to cost more on this front as they have experience and will sell a lot less than Apple on this front. On top of that, the price is well abor there average price so they are more likely to pull for a real profit margin whereas Apple may actually be wiling to cut a little off as this is below there average price point (speculation).
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post #109 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano_tube View Post

Because people are taking what I said out of context. All I want is a Mac between the iMac and Mac Pro...

You are likely correct that there would be a lot of people who would buy that hypothetical machine. But I think that you are overlooking the issue of cross-product elasticities: many of those people would buy that machine instead of settling for the Mac mini, the iMac, the MBP 13 or (maybe) the Mac Pro - all of which have good to excellent profit margins. The machine you describe would, by definition, have a modest profit margin (otherwise noone would be interested in it). So Apple would sell more units of the new machine, fewer units of the other ones possibly making overall less profit. Suddenly this does not look so attractive (unless the objective is pure market share which does not appear to be the case).

Now I don't know that this is so - I am just describing the kind of thinking that would lead to Apple's reluctance to make such a machine. Disappointing from a user's point of view but entirely understandable from the company's perspective.
post #110 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Didn't they move to a low-power desktop-grade CPU? Regardless, I'd expect Dell to cost more on this front as they have experience and will sell a lot less than Apple on this front. On top of that, the price is well abor there average price so they are more likely to pull for a real profit margin whereas Apple may actually be wiling to cut a little off as this is below there average price point (speculation).

Beats me. I just checked for the first time today. The CD2 they use in the base machine is the 2.0 Ghz model. I certainly think that it's interesting to find that Dell's AIO is more expensive and less powerful than an iMac. If I'm going to theorize about why this is, I'd surmise that Apple is more experienced in designing and manufacturing AIOs, and also that the "Apple tax" is either a myth, a fantasy, or both.
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post #111 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwik View Post

I wonder if maybe Apple should concentrate on notebook machines, since it looks like the Psystar desktop is exactly what I want.

Good choice!
post #112 of 227
But wait ... The more Mac sales there are, the more computers power up with iTunes and have access to the iTunes Store. Gee, more song downloads, movie rentals and purchases, better chance someone gets an iPod or iPhone, buys apps for it. The list goes on. While the Mac is an important profit center for Apple, it is by far, not the only one.
post #113 of 227
So iTunes only works with a Mac? Hmmmm.
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post #114 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by WPLJ42 View Post

But wait ... The more Mac sales there are, the more computers power up with iTunes and have access to the iTunes Store. Gee, more song downloads, movie rentals and purchases, better chance someone gets an iPod or iPhone, buys apps for it. The list goes on. While the Mac is an important profit center for Apple, it is by far, not the only one.

I think you got it backward. One of the reasons Mac are selling more is because more people are buying iPods and iPhones and like what they see. Here is an article on AI in 2005.
post #115 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Beats me. I just checked for the first time today. The CD2 they use in the base machine is the 2.0 Ghz model. I certainly think that it's interesting to find that Dell's AIO is more expensive and less powerful than an iMac. If I'm going to theorize about why this is, I'd surmise that Apple is more experienced in designing and manufacturing AIOs, and also that the "Apple tax" is either a myth, a fantasy, or both.

You get $50 off instantly, so the price starts at $1,317. Then to be nice i’ll knock another $80 off the price since that goes to Global Fund to help prepare African babies to get adopted by Hollywood celebrities or something, so the price is now $1237.

Dell is using an old Allendale/SantaRosa architecture desktop processor that is 65nm, 2 MB L2 Cache, 800 MT/s CPU that cost $113 back in 2007 when it was introduced. Contrast that to the 45nm, 6MB L2 Cache, 1066 MT/s CPU that cost $348 when released.

That isn’t even considering the XPS One’s DDR2 667MHz RAM, 250GB HDD, Intel GMA 3100 IGP, 80°*viewing angle compared to the iMac’s DDR3 1067MHz RAM, 320GB HDD, Nvidia 9400M IGP, 160° viewing angle, etc.

I’m guessing that the XPS One has not been a good seller for Dell so they are just holding it until they can get rid of stock, but that doesn’t explain the excessive price for such old components.
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post #116 of 227
I built my own i7 920 system by buying parts from Newegg and Amazon. I had a local computer shop put it together for $100. I then purchased a retail copy of Leopard and installed 10.5.7 on it. It's very easy to do. Just make sure you buy 2 internal hard drives; it makes the install much easier. I spent $1300 for an i7 920 2.6 system with 6 Gigs of RAM. The system flies and it will be even better once Snow Leopard comes out with its native 64 bit support.

Those considering a MacPro should strongly consider building their own. I have no issues whatsoever with my i7 build.
post #117 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano_tube View Post

Bro, I am an avid fan of Mac OS X. I want to keep using it. But Apple's hardware is a different story.
I *HATE* the iMac. I love towers, but the Mac Pro price is ridicules.

They lowered the price on the MB Air $700!!! Just like that! in a sec! WTF?! This means people that bought a MB Air just a day before paid a $700 premium! THIEVES!

GIVE ME A NORMAL MAC.
Core i7 920 (costs $280)
Supporting up to 16G of normal DDR3 RAM

BAM the price goes down to a normal scale.
GIMME YOUR BEST SHOT FELLOW MAC USERS: EXPLAIN TO ME WTF IS THEIR PROBLEM WITH GIVING US MAC USERS A SYSTEM LIKE THAT?!

If Dell was to cut $700 out of the Adamo, they would release a "new model" that fills exactly the gap the "replaced" one with minor design changes. The same thing, done in a way to fool the consumer.

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post #118 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano_tube View Post

You guys are just not listening.
No one is saying Psystar are doing the right thing. No one says that Apple should not sue their ass to kngdom come. They should. But what Psystar is showing you is that Apple is f*cking us up our collective asses in various ways. I, WILL NOT buy hardware that is twice expensive because this is what Mr. Jobs decided that I needed. Sorry - on my ass, there is a big NO ENTRY sign!

Trust me, Apple is eventually going to lose. They may shut down psystar, but then there will be another one and another one and another one. They can't go after every company and eventually some judge somewhere will rule against their ULA and it will be over. They should keep the customers that like their software - people like me.

The customer is always right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

So, lets say I was a soccer mom looking for a computer. My knowledge of computers is moderate, and I'm looking for something with stability, ease of use, and peace of mind. I want a decent amount of power across the board. A simple mid level tower. What can Apple do for me? Is that not a large enough of a demographic for Apple to pay attention to?



Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

I did explain, but you didn't catch on: I said it's like comparing a dvd/tv combo to a home theater.

So what happens when the dvd player in a dvd/tv combo breaks? What happens when you want a bigger monitor on an imac?

The imac is a cool machine, but it's completely impractical to compare it to a loaded dell xps.

Why would the soccer mom want either of those!?

If you dont like what Apple is offering, buy from one of its competitors. There are lots of them, Dell, Sony, HP, Acer, Asususus, etc. Use your wallet against Apple instead of this thread.
post #119 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwik View Post

Right, but Apple is saying it is not a free market and that Mac OS X license owners do not have the freedom to use that OS on a Psystar machine. Nor does that company even have the freedom to sell its machines. So, we will see how free this market really is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

This has nothing to do with a "free market." When someone asserts the right to sell products owned by others, that's not a free market, it's a corrupt market.

There is no free market for STEALING others' hard earn R&D and products. Don't let MS and Apple different BUSINESS MODELS confuse you.
post #120 of 227
[QUOTE=Nano_tube;1443885] All I want is a Mac between the iMac and Mac Pro, QUOTE]

Since Apple doesn't make what you want you can buy another brand of desktop computers. There are a lot of other Apple-competitors.
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