Palin's Sailin' - Page 4

Jeez, there's little difference between the treatment of Clinton and Palin. Both got unfairly dinged for being a woman. And Clinton was accused of pimping out Chelsea during the campaign. And the McCain joke about Reno being her dad. Limbaugh called Chelsea the white house dog.

i remember all the idiotic Clinton fashion disaster stories and even Hannity and Coulter makes jokes about how Michelle Obama looks/dresses.

And Palin with her criticizing Clinton for "whining" about media treatment. At least Clinton didn't just up and quit her job because it was too tough.

Some folks' objectives are to discuss things.

Other folks' objectives are different.

Sometimes this works well...like when you are pandering to your base. Both sides do it, but Republicans have been a tad more obvious and a lot more aggressive about it. That hard core conservatives mimic their leaders isn't too surprising.

What is surprising is that these folks don't quite understand that Limbaugh, Hannity, etc don't really care either way if conservatism moves forward. They make money the same way that TV preachers make money. Pandering to a base of supporters that are willing to make them rich by telling them what they want to hear. Same for the liberal pundits, they just make less money at it.

I guess the hope is that the usual mid-term apathy and the 2012 elections will have sufficiently lower turn out that simply motivating the base is sufficient to win. Maybe it will but I think the Democrats have clued into that AND are more successful at wooing moderates.

The question is whether their current overreach is enough to drive moderates away.

The thing that a lot of the democratic base misses is that if you look at the less noisy part of the republican party, there's still good strategists there and some folks starting to try to reverse the branding of the party as the dumb redneck party.

As I said before, all it takes is one charismatic leader that can reach moderates and the GOP is back in the game. It could take only 4 years to do it. None of the current crop of potential republican candidates are up to the task though...and the sooner we dump Palin the better.

trumptman:


It is no surprise that people have fled the forum with this kind of unnecessary and unchecked personal hostility being flung around.


The state board staffed by Palin's office didn't find her to be in any ethics violation? Shocking!


All of them mentioned the rumors. FOX had a huge special report on this stuff hosted by Hannity.


The kids aren't off limits if the candidate uses the kids as political props.
Your question seems to be, "Well why haven't THEY gone after Sasha and Malia?"
The answer is simple: Sasha and Malia haven't done anything interesting. They're little girls who have smiled and waved at cameras.
Bristol Palin, a legal adult, trotted herself and her beau out at a national political convention with a sham engagement for the sole purpose of boosting her mom's career.

Those are not equivalent.


People mocking Chelsea Clinton for her looks was not "one instance", that was incessant.
What powerful US senator has mocked Willow Palin?
What powerful radio personality has mocked Willow Palin?

I would love your comments on what screener posted yesterday at 7:17pm, Sarah Palin chastising Hillary Clinton for a "perceived whine".

Hillary Clinton has been the target of vicious attack from the media and from right-wing-specific media for a decade and a half now. She's broken down a few times, as one would expect, but how many times has anyone come on here and melted down with hyperbole and outrage about it? How many times has she quit her job because people were mean to her? How many times has she scolded other women in politics for not being tough enough? How many times has she used Chelsea as a political shield?

You are trying to make the argument that the harsh spotlight on Sarah Palin is unique. It's not.

Sarah Palin simply had the misfortune of being offered an opportunity she wasn't smart enough to pass up. What John McCain did was unfair to her. The puppy really wants to eat the chocolate and he doesn't know how bad the chocolate is for him, but the person giving the chocolate to him does.

I wasn't aware that asking for effort was hostility. That is quite an interesting place to set the bar.


You are welcome to show how this is different from any other executive branch office. There is a separation of powers for reason.


Hannity is a talk show, not a newscast. So you still haven't given me a newscast. You have NEWS outlets pursuing Palin, not Olbermann or Stewart as examples.


Ah apparently "interesting" is code for "long-winded justification for why we are allowed to treat the kids like crap." The first statement contradicts itself. Clearly Sasha and Malia were political props complete with photo ops and interview questions. By your reasoning the rule was ignored in their case because they weren't "interesting."

Please find this definition of interest for me. I would have thought Biden's son being indicted was interesting. Apparently coverage of that and the pontificating about it weren't "interesting" either.

Should we compare the volume of news stories about Bristol and Biden's son? One was guilty of being pregnant. The other was guilty of well...crimes.

You say she "trotted herself out" because she was 18 years old. Yet she was still in high school and under the care of her mother. It isn't so cut and dried.


Incessant? I find two instances and you cited both of them. Both are from 1993. Also why apply 1993 criteria to 2009? Why shouldn't I be able to find a powerful blogger as an example? Why shouldn't I be able to show how a news aggregator website like HuffPo published a hateful article? They didn't exist in 1993. Get with the times. Sorry if you want your examples on 8 track tape and I only have them in mp3 format on my iPod.


I believe I already replied to that.


Quit her job? She was the first lady? How does one quit that job? She then went on to be Senator for New York, not exactly a place critical of liberals like her. She ran for president and yes, had to deal with all 50 states and broke down a few times, but not because of how conservatives were treating her but because of how liberals were turning on her with their viciousness to elect Obama.


I linked to specific exampled and asked for similar instances to be found for other politicians. Declaring it simply isn't so fails to convince. Feel free to repeat it ad naseum though.


You are so cute when comparing women to dogs. I suppose you should be applauded for not calling her a bitch though.

Sara is the one who compared herself to a dog during some famous speech, trying to make it sound like she was tough. Well, tail between the legs as she goes trotting off home just a few months later. All bark, no bite.

That is quite incorrect. He compared Palin to a puppy. You could just as easily say he was comparing people with brown hair to dogs.

In the analogy Sarah Palin is to John McCain as puppies are to chocolate, I don't see any reason to equate Sarah Palin with "people with brown hair" as opposed to say... the words Sarah Palin which were used.

It's almost like I read what he wrote.

I could have sworn it was lipstick and pigs or a fish as well. I remember the band named after a human organ got upset because their song about a fish was used to describe the nice human female.

It doesn't really matter the animal when the action is misogynistic though does it?

I mean it is sort of like noting that it would be okay for the KKK to call someone black a "boy" because, you know, they classify themselves as a young male as well.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle4690544.ece

Highlights here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbZbXE5tzww

Slip in to about 3 minutes and 25 seconds...

Her added joke was:

"What's the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom? Lipstick."

The text of her speech is here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_123703.html

Ah. The memories: The HP has conveniently boldfaced her attacks on Obama, including the ones where she went after him for being a community organizer. Yeah, the same thing Jesus was. It was also in this speech that she started her war with the media to howls of support; she is trying to capitalize on it.

---

TIME interviewed Sara and asked about the Clinton thing and they quote Sara in full:

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...8983-2,00.html (scroll down a bit)

It's not an analogy; it's basic reading comprehension. Why would you equate Sarah Palin with "woman?" Sarah Palin is being equated with "simpleton, and idiotic VP pick." She was compared to a puppy because, like Sarah the individual, puppies are pretty dumb and don't know what's best for themselves. Someone could get "women in general" or "because she's a woman" from Groverat's comment if they either didn't understand the sentence, had issues with women, or wanted to jump to an inflammatory conclusion, or some other reason. Correctly reading the sentence is not one of those reasons.

Yes. I can see your point and given the wonderful reasoning, I'll let you have fun with your ad-homs.

She was a bad choice by the republicans to counter what they felt was a threat by Hillary Clinton.

Well women come in all forms just like men. Too bad she wasn't the best choice for this job. Not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer.

I'll tell you what. You were commenting on Obama's school records not long ago. It might be enlightening to compare Palin's to his.

I'm sure it would because we all remember how brilliant Al Gore is and what his grades were like don't we?

When you're smart academic scores don't really tell the whole story do they?

Let's talk IQ.





I understand Einstein was bored with his classes as well.

http://famousbazaar.com/gpage138.html



And of course Sarah's : http://www.allvoices.com/contributed...520322-iq-test

It was a little difficult to get her rating since it's been pulled from so many places but it looks to be somewhere around 83.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...1144730AAkf3li

Also

http://newmillenniumart.newsvine.com...ob-performance

And : http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_Sa...nal_background


So you couldn't find Obama's and decided to pick one of your other favorites?

Here's what I could find on Obama just off the cuff : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama


http://www.kids-iq-tests.com/d-prez.html

The simple fact of it is that our news media is obsessed with sex and scandal. Sarah Palin is a sex symbol. Her daughter had taboo sexual relations. We, as Americans, love that.


Blogging didn't exist in 1993.
If you want to argue that making fun of Chelsea's looks wasn't very common that's fine. You would be dead wrong, but since we had no real Internet at that time it's going to be impossible to dispute the dishonest argument.

And even if we limit it to two instances, there is no comparison when it comes to the reach and power of those two attackers (John McCain and Rush Limbaugh). You're quoting dime-a-dozen bloggers and I'm quoting men who have been known across the nation for decades, one of whom almost became president of the United States.


And this has been provided.
Political children are not always considered "off limits" - example Chelsea Clinton & Bush twins.
Politicians who sound like country rubes are not considered "off limits" - example George W Bush & Jimmy Carter.
Politicians incapable of taking a punch are definitely not considered "off limits" - example Richard Nixon.


Sarah Palin:American Political Power :: puppies:chocolate

The spotlight is powerful and intense for those seeking national political office. Sarah Palin is incapable of leaving an insult (whether real or perceived) unanswered. That might be admirable in someone who doesn't overreact, but she does. She threatens irrational lawsuits and drums up phantom conspiracies where none exist. That is death to national power seekers; as chocolate to puppies.

I'll be happy to talk IQ scores when you find some. The Gore one is close to an actual estimate based off what he did. The Palin stuff is photoshop work and the Obama score is not based off his LSAT score but the average LSAT score for the school he attended.

Put up some real numbers. If you are going to call someone "not the sharpest knife" then give a basis for that.

Given the fact that Obama has not released a single transcript, test score, or even published paper is very telling to me.

Thank goodness no one has described Obama as attractive or sexy. Michelle we are told is quite the woman to look at as well.


You are so cute. I'll let your dishonest argument be easily disproven since I already found the sources for the claims and noted the number of instances.


Yes I can see your point given how the internet has concentrated power into the hands of the few and made reaching large numbers of people impossible, oh wait....

Duh, what a hilarious argument that would be to make since now any blogger can reach more people than a senator or even most talk radio hosts. You call them dime a dozen, but the reality is that entire websites and financial empires are being built around these bloggers. HuffPo, Talking Points Memo, DailyKos, just a few of those BLOGGERS who now have tremendous reach.


It has not been provided. It has been rationalized away.


Not always = become adults away from home and sometimes do embarassing things that get reported on or even not embarrassing things that are newsworthy in a celebrity fashion (who they are dating, wearing, etc.)

All the examples you mention are kids who are adults and have moved away from home. They are engaged in their adult lives.


I've never said she should be off-limits. Strawman. I said there is a difference between satire and misogyny.


Strawman. Enjoy knocking it down because no one has brought it up.


Actually most analysis of this has dealt more with being unable to get anything done while having to pay for her own defense as governor when anyone can make charges for anything. As I said from the first reply, I'd shrug in a similar circumstance as well. If the job doesn't allow success, don't take it or be willing to leave it. In this instance she felt the people trying to get to her were gumming up the ability to get an agenda done. She can let the Liet. Gov get that agenda done and let the misogynists go berserk finding new targets to hunt down.

If anything I'd call this a classic two front war which no one wins. The two fronts are the media and the Democrats. You remove yourself from public life and if the media want to attack now, they aren't justified. Instead they will be shown for the hateful partisans they happen to be. Palin quit before when she felt the factors associated with the job made it untenable. If you cannot reform from within, go outside. Who knows she might just be done, or done until her kids are grown. You never know. Let that unemployment rate hit 12% or so and anyone who is an incumbent might be in for an uphill slog and everyone who isn't might be given a free pass. You never know.

I'm sure back in 2004 people thought Obama might have been committing political suicide to be antiwar, a few years later, the Democratic hawks were taking knocks. Life is funny that way.

I don't know what this is supposed to mean.


Bloggers do not have power as individuals. If one, two, or even a small number of bloggers say something it is still relatively meaningless.


They have a tremendous reach... to an extremely targeted and self-selected audience.
A blogger is not the same as a powerful US Senator.


Bristol Palin is a legal adult who mothered a child. If that isn't engaging in an adult life then there is no such thing as engaging in an adult life.


That's a matter of perception and semantics.


In her rambling mess of a resignation speech she states that it is the state of Alaska footing the bill for her many ethics violation investigations, not her.

Can "anyone make charges for anything"? That seems to be a spurious allegation about how things are progressing.


This is only the case if you actually remove yourself from public life. Palin seemingly has no intention of doing this. Quitting your political office is not removing yourself from public life if you continue to do interview after interview on major news networks, post angrily on your Facebook about all the injustices against you, and threaten lawsuits left and right.


Isn't your dismissal of Palin critics as "the misogynists" a simplistic strawman label in the same vein of those you think come from Palin's attackers?

Because some don't like Palin, they're labelled as hating women.

Nuttier and nuttier.

... dfd

This is going to be the last reply to you on this because... there just isn't much here beyond one liners and declarations.


The claim was that the media treated Palin as they did because she was sexy. Obama is considered at least as attractive and rather than earning derisive terms like "slutty", they still cannot even think of anything to joke about seven months after the election.

Thus the rationalization fails.


You base this on what... because you say so?


Oh wait... they do have tremendous power. However it isn't really power since they aren't the same level of power as a US Senator sez you. Kos claims 5 million visitors per week as an example.

However what is the concern about whether someone has "as much" power? What sort of strawman nonsense is that? Someone with 5 million views a week is powerless and cannot influence opinion? Someone with millions of readers is suddenly excused from the rules and can hate as much as they want? I guess so.

Please keep talking in circles and rationalizing hate.


No problem. I'm sure you'll be able to explain the lack of jokes about Gore's son, Biden's son, etc. I'll also remember this nice rationalization that regardless of actual status, an adult action opens the flood gates.


I'm pretty sure most hate is based on perception so thanks for pointing that out. Semantics is just the spin for the hate.


Actually if you investigate the charges you will see that is exactly how they have been progressing. This is why none of them have stuck and have been on trivial matters. One of them was even filed by Edna Birch, a fictional character, but had to have time and money spent on it.


No matter what it gets the two front war down to one front. This was just my conjecture though so nothing can really be known here.


Wow, sounds like those nice interview questions where the critic is the media on behalf of the Democrats.

No it isn't a strawman, it is a description of their actions. It clear the actions directed toward Palin match the definition.

It's not a rationalization, it's an explanation.

Our culture embraces the sexuality of men and loathes the sexuality of women. Palin is sexy, so she gets a lot more attention. Women are more sexualized in our media culture than men are. Is that right? Is that good? Those are separate questions that I am not addressing here.

I am merely explaining the difference. Women are held to a different standard. If Hillary or Sarah wear a certain outfit the media goes nuts. If Obama wears the same suit 10 days in a row no one cares.


Everyone has power to some extent. I have never claimed that bloggers do not have power. They do not have the same power as a US Senator. As I said, "A blogger is not the same as a powerful US Senator."

A US Senator is an elected representative tasked with representing an entire state of people from all corners of the political spectrum. A US Senator has the power to vote on legislation, introduce legislation, and kill legislation if they are in the right committees (which McCain has been for decades).

Kos has more power than McCain when it comes to influencing the opinions of a narrow set of young liberals.


What about Gore's son? What about Biden's son? Neither of them have done anything the media finds sexy. The issue here is no political ideology, the issue is sex. The media were happy to dedicate their every waking moment to Bill Clinton's sexuality. The media were happy to even dedicate a little time to Jenna Bush carousing at UT. Sex sells, especially when the famous person involved in the scandal is female, because our society has a sexual double standard.

You seem to be taking all of this as a value statement from me. It's not a rationalization, it's an explanation.

Ahem! The first link?


For you again.

http://famousbazaar.com/gpage138.html

I believe the numbers on the first link for Palin are real even though picture is photoshop. Although her records have been pulled from several places.


Maybe he considers it private. I'm sure that's what Palin would say about pulling hers from websites.

Al Gore: Harvard University, Vanderbilt University

Barack Obama: Columbia University, Harvard University

Sarah Palin: Hawaii Pacific College, North Idaho College, Cour d'Alene community college, University of Idaho, Matanuska-Susitna College, Palmer community college, back to University of Idaho

No one is seriously arguing that Sarah Palin is anywhere near Obama's or Gore's league intellectually, right?

oops


This sounds terribly familiar.

She got degrees from all dem skuuls? Dat's darn wow. Hooda thunk she done learnin in buhks!

I just had to run in with this bit of fun and then be done. I'll be happy to see where this ran in the states. I'll be happy to enjoy all those links to the Letterman Top Ten Reasons Chelsea is wasted abroad and how the Clinton's are such terrible parents. I'll be happy to see SNL mocking her drunken state. I'll be happy to see which sports stars she will be hope to be hooked up with.


I'll be happy to even find a story in the U.S. on this. Sure it isn't newsworthy but it is tantilizing and ratings worthy. So which is it?

Edit: Hey, where is that high falootin' Occidental College at for Obama?

So it's down to any kind of character assasination now is it?

Now I know you've got nothing.

" Let's see I can't find anything on Obama's kids.......Hey! I know let's pick on our other favorite subject ( that really scares the hell out of us but don't tell anyone ) the Clintons!!!!! "

A blogger wrote something about Palin's child last year... she responded by thrusting her daughter into the public eye as a shield: See! She's pregnant and is going to get married! What a wonderfully good thing to do for our support of family values! We all know where that went.

Clinton has never used her daughter to protect her.

Major difference.

Obama spent time at Occidental? I didn't know that.
Good thing it's a spectacular and selective school.


Bill Clinton hasn't been president or held any public office for a decade. He hasn't run for office in 15 years. Also, the photos you posted are from years ago.

I thought she just stood by her man, claimed his presidency was hers and then cried.

"Stood by her man" is a sexist caricature.
"claimed his presidency was hers" is simply inaccurate.
"and then cried" is yet more sexist caricature.

Exactly. Caricatured thought is only worthy of a caricatured response.

You saw the point perfectly.

Can you please not? Please don't link to NSFW images.

edit: Oh, I looked at this with a system not connected to my work network and saw that it's an elbow. My bad.

Trumptman, Doesn't that picture ridiculing Chelsea tend to undermine your position that the coverage of Palin is unprecedented. Sure, politicians and their families are treated unfairly, mocked, and ridiculed. It just isn't unique to Palin.

No because the American media wouldn't report on it. That article is from the UK.

I sometimes wish I had a subscription to LexisNexis because so much of what passes for news today is "analysis." The shear number of stories is really a telling fact. Suppose we did manage to find someone in the U.S. who reported on that. If we ran the numbers for how many times Chelsea was reported on versus say the Bush twins, the bias would be clear. Same thing for Gore's high speed Prius chase while under the influence as an example.

Most telling is soon after these events happen, the Democratic politicians come forward, declare it is a private matter and should be left alone, and the media just complies. The little bit or reporting on John Edwards for example just stops.

Which one of you guys is going to chip in for the LexisNexis subscription?

So in other words a comedian makes a mockery at Palin's daughter so you make a characterization of the daughter of a past president?

? There's a some real logic there! dfiler's right it totally undermines your position. You don't make something right by copying what you're saying they did wrong!


Ummm! Yum! You want to see more?

Let's see first you want them to not report these things. Then you want them to report these things. Then you want them to report more of the democrat's kids items.

trumptman no matter how much they report this the reality is that this has nothing to do with how they perform their job. It's a private matter. You stooping to the same level only goes to show where your priorities are. My criticisms of Palin have never included anything about her kids. It's the same with Bill Clinton. What he did was a private matter until he lied to the american people about it. Do you get the difference?

What you did here was not just site that the american media didn't report it. You made sure it got reported here in living color.

What about when Limbaugh called Chelsea the white house dog?
Or when McCain said Chelsea was so ugly because Janet Reno was the father? (Which is admittedly, damn funny )

Palin's treatment simply isn't unprecedented.

She was given more airtime last night to explain her resignation. Which actually helped to explain it a bit. It sounds like she didn't want to deal with the scrutiny, didn't feel she could accomplish much given the circumstances, and wanted to save the state money by ending investigations of her conduct. The first two reasons seem valid but the third is debateable.

I might have faired similarly. I can imagine myself the governor of a state of 700k people. If thrust into the national spotlight and placed under such heavy scrutiny, I too would have probably quit. The pressure must be unbelievable. Given her options, it seems reasonable to want to go fishing and spend time with the family rather than suffering through the slings and arrows.

While I don't fault her for making that choice, in my mind it means she isn't suitable for any office higher than governor. If the governorship was too much, I'm sure she would still make a fine candidate for mayor again. But the office of president would be even more difficult to deal with. She'd experience all the same things again, and more so.

Doesn't count.

Why? Because you are a misogynist if you think it does.

I'm confused.
I'm a mysogynist if I think what? (I'm honestly baffled by this attack on me. Not really offended, just baffled.)

Letterman made a joke about Palin's daughter. Limbaugh made a joke about Clinton's daughter. I was merely pointing out that Palin's treatment isn't unprecedented.

Care to comment on Palin's interview that aired last night? That was the bulk of my post.