Demand for Apple's 13" MacBook Pro may be outpacing supply - Page 2

Care to explain why?

And the 12" PowerBook G4 shouldn't have been called a PowerBook?

I know a few people who have been dying for Apple to replace the 12" PowerBook since they dropped it. This seems to fit the bill and the sales show it.

Exactly. A laptop and its screen can easily be reoriented if necessary to reduce unwanted reflections. It's potentially much more of an issue with something like an iMac, where the choice of location and orientation may be limited.


1) Yes.
2) So buy the non-Pro plastic case MacBook instead.

Funny, the matte screen on my powerbook is totally unreadable in sun, but the glossy screen on my 15" MBP is perfectly usable. Far from ideal, but that's because I'm in full sun, not because of a fault of the notebook

If you actually used the product you are complaining about rather then relying on Internet malcontents for your perspective, you would know your statement is ridiculous.


Yes there are - they have been pointed out many times in threads like this. No I have not tried them because I like the glossy display just fine the way it is.

And tell me how it is narrow and slanted? You are narrow and slanted for perhaps not being able to understand that the needs of many mobile professionals are greater than what a 13 inch laptop can offer. The internals may be the similar, but there is a high number of people who need the biggest screen real estate they can get for many reasons. Some may do 3d rendering and modeling, some may be those ESPN photographers that need more real estate in Aperture than what a 13 inch laptop can offer. Bottom line, everyone's definition of what a "Pro" should be is going to vary. How do you define pro?

Absolutely. A lot of changes in WiFi have come around sense the 12 PB was last released. However, that does not mean that the range is what you need. Bring your PB into an Apple Store and then install iStumbler on each machine and see the signal strength or each.

(I know that holding down the Option key while clicking on the Airport icon in the Menu Bar will show signal strength in Snow Leopard but I am not sure that works in Leopard)


Your choices are limited if this is just about the backpack size. I find that the backpacks for the 15 notebooks are sufficient for the 13 notebooks.

http://www.google.com/products?clien...N&hl=en&tab=wf

I guess it depends on what PROfession you are in. For me, the 13 MB, even before it was Pro, was a better for me than the larger 15 machines.

Yeah there are and they are brilliant. I have one on my Samsung Notebook. It is about 50 bucks I guess for such an already prefectly cut highend film. And also putting them on wihtout any bubbles takes some patience and a room as dust free as possible. But you can clean it and try a few times till you get it right.
Once it is on the screen you have all the pros of a matt screen but inside the difference in color is very small imo. Contrast is sometimes even better in some light settings.

I used my Notebook with glossy outside too and never understood those people who say, they are completely unusable. I could use it under direct sunlight. A big problem was when there are different thinks behind you. If it is just heaven and nothing else you could still read a pdf. I was most annoyed in those semi light setting, where you sit on the university and while the screen would be more than bright enough those reflections are annoying or at home where a t-shirt with too much white in it can already be annoying.
Anti reflective it's awesome indoors (where you could still use it without, it was just annoying) and in the garden it is brilliant.

I use the Vikuiti ARM200. I think it is in some regards better than usual matt screens. Because of the real anti reflection layer (vs. only the matt surface) it swallows more light and you have less grey misty overlay what ever you'd call it. When a light source in your back is just spread over a greater surface but might just make the whole area of the screen more difficult to read.

If I buy a 13" MacBook Pro, I will definitely buy such a sheet, film whatever you call it again. Actually I most likely will buy one in 2 months. The only thing I don't like is OSX which I'm not sure I'll like. Played a little with it. I can understand why people like it but it's seems inferior to Windows in some ways that matter to me (not gaming, but customizabilty and software). If there would be Lenovo T400 like Windows Drivers, it could just try without any risk. But if I don't like OSX a Lenovo T400 is the better option, better Windows batterylife and a brighter screen.

It is amazing what happens when you lower prices and add significant features.

Can't wait until the iMac is refreshed to see what Apple has in store for it.

Why? There once was a 12" PowerBook.
I feel all the MBP's should have an option for matte now -just like the 17". Then the problem is solved. I mean how difficult could that be to produce for a "Professional" line of computers? There obviously is a demand for matte if the 17" came out with one. Give the option to the 15" and 13" - and this story goes away. Is it about the enviro rating that we only have glass screens?

I have the aluminum 13" MacBook and 24" LED Cinema display now. I'm not sure if I need to upgrade to the MBP. If I did, it would really only be for the improvement of the screen (when it's not conected to my Cinema display) and the SD slot. Anyone have an idea of what these are being sold for? I'm at work so can't check ebay at the moment.

What a stupid statement. Apple wants to make a profit, and excellent products focused on end user experience.

That right there immediately tells you they aren't going to produce hardware to cover all market segments, because not all hardware segments make sense. And they are fine with that.

It's only pundits and internet wags that get their panties in a bunch over market share. Apple is more profitable then other top tier PC manufacturers, so while I imagine they wouldn't mind having more market share, they aren't loosing any sleep over it.

Besides, desktop and notebook PC's are passé. Mobile devices are "where the puck will be" and guess who is there, innovating and dominating?

If you want to focus on market share that is truly relevant, watch the portable "personal electronic in your pocket converged computer/digital assistant" space.

Your absolutely right - I don't like glossy screens because they are sharper and have better saturation and color. I like them because I'm shallow.

Just like I only like Apple because they are popular and make shiny, good looking objects and not because they offer superior solutions?



Do you even read this stuff before you post it?

By whatever equipment meets my actual requirements instead of relying on useless labels?

Last time I checked, Apple offered choices other then the 13" so I really don't understand your complaint - other then you are one of these shallow people that feel your own computer is devalued if other "lesser" computers get to share the same silly label (i.e. "Pro")?

Exactly.

That would first of all depend on the signal strength of the WiFi and not what kind of card your MBP had. But your signal in the other direction will be stronger and reach further due to the N standard. Think about getting a new Airport Base-station to boost your WiFi Signal.


The size difference is not that big, but you should be able to get a sling back pack.


Don't forget to buy a firewire cable 400 to 800 to transfer all your settings/passwords and such.

And btw I work for Apple.

Count me in the "upgrade" group. I held my nose and bought one of the white MacBooks at the end of March because my 12" Powerbook just didn't do what I wanted it to do. I wanted a small Mac laptop that had built-in Firewire and the white one was the only one unit that fit the bill. It did what I wanted it to do but I never really felt comfortable with it. But when the new 13" MacBook Pro systems came out I figured a way to buy one and pay for it by selling off the old one. It's the best decision I've made in a long time! I love the new aluminum unit. It feels more solid, looks better and does feel a bit faster. It's a tiny bit more difficult to upgrade than the old plastic MacBooks-I have upgraded the hard drive and memory on the unit since I picked it up last week.

The glossiness of the screen isn't a problem for me. I'm sitting in a room with a lot of overhead fluorescent lights and I don't see the lights on the screen. I can see my fingers reflected off the black bevel but most of the time I'm so focused on the content of the screen I don't pay attention to the stuff around the edges. Not having a matte screen isn't a problem for me.

What about the 250GB Hard Drive, try any of the MacBook Pro's with that hard drive and see what happens to the delivery. Delivery drops down to standard CTO time with any of the other drives. Ooops

Cool! I didn't know this. On Leopard it gives the signal strength for the signal you're currently connected to. Will Snow Leopard show the signal strength for all wireless networks that the computer can see?

I just got rid of my 12" powerbook G4 and my imac and bought a 13" macbook pro and i got a refurbished 24" display and it is awesome. im so glad i did it. i also got the wireless keyboard and wireless mighty mouse. definitely worth it.

Just to be specific, the tiny bit more difficult is the removal of a few extra screws, but you already needed a screwdriver to change the HDD and RAM, anyway. Though I do miss the setup of the ploy-carb MBs that kept the screws in the metal plate after you removed it.

How do you like the new trackpad? I did have to get mine repaired but overall its been great. The durability of the new body is worlds different from the old MBs so if you are rough on your tools, like me, it will be a nice change.

i agree, every new powerbook/macbook pro i have bought in the last years has had better wifi reception than the previous model. but of course it is impossible to guarantee that this will be the case with your computer... to many variables i suppose.

well, you've just answered your original question with the above statement and question.

if you're a pro who needs a 17" screen --> the 13" will not suffice
if you're a pro who needs a 13" screen -> the 13" will be right for you.

does this answer your question?

yes, this works on Leopard too, just tried it,
thanks for the tip, never knew that!

Try it with a matte screen. Guess what - it sucks too.

But if it's a sunny day, go get some exercise instead.

I think it's safe to say it will, if only because it uses 802.11n, which has a better range than the older protocols, and especially if you use it with an 802.11n router. Whether it will have the range you need is difficult to know.

Exactly. Apple is offering a choice.

Based on the premise that some pros might need X, Y, or Z, one could argue that any computer that doesn't meet the needs of the most demanding pro customer out there should not be labelled a MacBook Pro. As such, it could be claimed the 15" Pro shouldn't be classified as a pro machine, especially in base form with a slower processor.

And what of the 17" MacBook Pro sporting in base form a 5400 RPM drive? How could Apple call that machine a pro machine if there are pros out there who have to have at least a 7,200 RPM drive? And what's with that glossy screen? Apple's standards, clearly, are far too low if they dare to use the Pro label on that abomination.

I think it would interesting to find out what impact cheaper laptops are having on mac mini sales.

I was planning to go with the mini until the latest laptops were introduced. Now that the price difference is so small, why would I bother with the mini when a laptop costing marginally more offers comparable performance.

And the payoff for Apple is that once you start thinking laptop, it's very easy to consider moving up the food chain since a little more takes you to another performance level and a little more still that much more.

Whereas I was thinking a maxed out mini that here in Canada retails for $1,318. looking at the laptops, I'd be leaning more to a macbook pro 13" which, speced out to what I want retails for $1,912. More money, sure, but also more computer, including a faster processor.

Apple could do something similar with the mini by expanding options but I don't think Apple wants to devote more than a minimal amount of engineering effort on the mini because it isn't as big a seller as any of the laptops.

In short, maybe some of what's going on with the popularity of the new laptops is that some customers that would have opted for a mini are going laptop instead. If I'm right, the mini is going to be the big loser in this process and might even be killed off.

You are of course correct, but spare a thought for those Silicon Graphics users who bought the SGI-Virtu - cost: about $11,000 - and expect to have a PRO machine - only to find it has only 2 USB ports. disgraceful!

Yesterday, I ordered the 17" MBP - FULLY LOADED!!

* 3.06GHz
* 8GB SDRAM
* 500GB @ 7200 rpm
* Antiglare Widescreen Display
* DisplayPort to DVI Adapter
* Mini DisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI Adapter
* Apple MagSafe Airline Power Adapter
* Apple Remote
* AppleCare Protection Plan

Can't wait!! Also looking for a used 30" cinema display. I see some for $700-800 on eBay.

I do Web design and am getting serious about Final Cut Studio and After Effects. Anybody else on the same boat?

Well duh! Took Apple awhile to figure it out. Maybe they learned something. This even though the 13" has a battery that isn't user replaceable and has a SD card reader rather than an express card slot. I attribute this almost solely to adding Firewire back and pricing it well.

Just out of curiosity: is there a resource where we can find out how many computer owners use various aspects of their machine? eg. i wonder how many people actually use firewire? I and a few of my friends do (mostly musicians and video people). but the majority of my acquaintances who own MBPs or Powerbooks never, ever used the firewire port. They just don't need it. Since the port has reappeared, I presume apple learned that there is demand, but I wonder how many percent of owners actually require a firewire port.
Same goes for the expresscard slot.

Simple. You're hung up on a name and think that because what you consider to be "professional" excludes a small, easily portable screen, it should not carry the label you obviously place a lot of value in.

Uhh, good for them. Since they're "professionals" and all, I fully trust in their ability to purchase a computer that meets their needs and not "sticker shop" based on what has the word "pro" stuck to it.

Good for them. Sure is nice that Apple makes a product that suits their needs. Are these the only people that can be considered "professionals" in your narrow and slanted view (and therefore worthy of purchasing a "pro" laptop)?

Thank you for proving my point. So what, again, is your basis for excluding a product based on your narrow interpretation?

I would say it's got a lot to do with the quality of materials and workmanship and absolutely nothing to do with what the person using the machine regards themselves as. Lots of "pros" (myself included) need a light, easily portable system with superior battery life, a quality display, and a build quality that will withstand years of being carried around every single day.


Every person I've seen griping about the "13" pro" has been someone who paid a heck of a lot more money for a 15" or 17" and are really just bent that others can now get into their exclusive club for a lot cheaper. I find that silly.

That's all faulty logic. Only people who dislike glossy screens are going to go to that web site. So, 80% of even that biased sample would still buy a system with a glossy screen.

Your premise assumes that Apple is incredibly stupid. Apple knows how many people bought computers with each screen option. If the matte option was a large seller, would Apple have dropped it?

The glossy screen is brighter, clearer, less expensive, and more colorful. Its one downside (glare) can be addressed by slightly moving the screen. I've never found glare to be a problem on my MBP.


Yes, the new one will have better wireless performance, although you'll want to make sure you have an 802.11n router. Even if you stick with the older router, I believe your model of MacBook was one of the ones with poor wireless reception.


No. There are 3 more people out there who believe that. Fortunately, Apple ignored them.


Screens are one thing that I generally don't buy from Apple. WHile I'm willing to pay a premium for the computer, I won't pay a premium for the screen. You can probably find a third party screen with equal or better specs for a lot less money. Heck, I know it's heresy, but I've even bought Dell monitors for my Mac. I don't know if it's still true, but at one time, the Dell monitor was at least as good as the Apple monitor - and about 1/3 the price (on sale).

Anyone that has a camcorder requiring a firewire port(there were millions sold and are still being sold, me being one), anyone who foolishly (like me) bought firewire external harddrives to speed up data transfer while doing home video editing(even home video editing is more pleasant when it's faster), rather than using the internal slower laptop harddrive. Anyone who has to trouble shoot their daughter's laptop when she's home from college and needs to use target disc mode to salvage important papers, documents, etc. from her school work(and of course her iTunes purchases).

I probably misspoke somewhat, as there are other very good reasons to like the new 13" Macbooks, but the recent lack of firewire touched off a firestorm on virtually every Mac centric website.

What I would do is get the standard drive and then buy your own SATA HD. The HD's are really, really easy to change in both the MacBook and MacBook Pro. Then you can even opt to get a 7200 RPM 250GB HD if you so wish. And it wouldn't cost you very much either. Wouldn't cost you anymore than $80 USD for a 7200RPM 250 GB notebook hard drive.

You could put the standard drive in an external enclosure or just keep it in the box until you get read to sell it. Or just sell it.

Irrelevant. All Intel Mac notebooks have used lithium polymer batteries. Also, the style of battery used in the early 2006 Macbook Pro was manufactured at least until the Unibody notebooks were introduced.

Thank you to both ghostface and beastvince for the good info.

I appreciate the good help I read here.

I do regular backups from my 12" powerbook to a WD portable harddrive that plugs into my 12" powerbook with a firewire connection. I planned on just using that to transfer to my new 13" macbookPro. Will that work?

thanks.

No delivery problems for me. I ordered it 6/30. The "free" iPod touch arrived on Friday, the MacBook Pro yesterday and I'm waiting for the p"free" printer to be delivered today - Fed Ex's website says it's on the truck.

The son-in-law got the touch and I get the 13" MBP as my wife has decided she wants the MB Air. And it is sweet!

Ok I was replying to someone who commented that the 2006 MBP batteries were failing. Just in case you were wondering, LI-poly is still LI-ion technology although the density and substrate is different. The aging issue is not documented as being any better to my knowledge. You do get more power because the density is greater.

Sure it will.

Or you can do what I did when I got my 15" MBP - start the 12" PowerBook in Firewire Target mode (Hold down the T key while booting it until the firewire symbol appears on the screen) then cable it to your new computer and use Migration Assistant to move over your accounts.

Worked like a champ! I was very pleased at how easily it worked (and the PowerPC to Intel thing didn't even seem to be an issue for my programs as they apparently were all universal binaries).

I find glossy screens force me to look at them from an angle where the background is relatively dark with low contrast. I can't use my iPod touch when it's facing directly at me. I've always got it tilted 10-20% away from me. Doing that with a larger screen, particularly one with an attached keyboard is simply unacceptable. Covering glare with increased brightness is also unacceptable. I do a lot of work with text and need the background white to be soft on my eyes. On many displays that means setting the brightness to less than 30 and I've used one that was too bright to use for more than a few minutes at a time when brightness was set to zero.

I do understand the problems with matte screens too. Surely there's some sort of happy medium that doesn't cut down the sharpness too much, but gets rid of most of the glare.