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Apple tweaks Dock menus in new Snow Leopard beta - Page 3

post #81 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG4G View Post

Snow Leopard's gamma is 2.2 as standard. It looks just like Leopard after you shift it's gamma manually, but yes, there is a significant difference. I much prefer the look of Snow Leopard overall as there is more "pop" to the colors.

Combined with the new Quicktime X, the new dock effects and exposè, and all the other alterations, I refuse to use my Leopard lappy till I switch it to SL. I much, much prefer Snow Leopard overall - color and all.

Thanks!
Looking forward to the release =)
post #82 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by webraider View Post

Is it true that Apple has disabled the Hard Drive Icons from the Desktop by Default? I know some people don't care for it but this is actually something I still like to use. I can drag a file onto the disk icon and it springs open. I have to hold down the space bar to drag it over the finder icon and if I'm dragging from a CD of DVD with no sidebar (yes, I know you can expand the sidebar), I have to open another finder window before I drag. If the Hard drive Icon is there.. I can drag straight to it. It works perfectly. I think Apple needs to change the behavior of the finder Icon in the Dock before the disable the Hard Disk Icon from the Desktop completely.

I understand that you can turn this feature on, but I can't help but wonder if Apple is trying to ween us from this altogether.

At any rate, why fix something that's not broken? I think it's still better to have them there. The idea is the Desktop shows you what you have to work with. I also can't help but think this is a competition with Windows 7's empty desktop appearance but Windows has never been "Volume friendly browsing" and the Mac has.

How does hiding the hard drive by default constitute as an attempt to fix what's not broken? And just because they've hidden the HDD's desktop icon doesn't mean they've also hidden all other external volumes from appearing on the desktop.

Windows 7 still has a recycling bin on the desktop and as others have noted, Vista's gadgets introduced a whole new level of desktop clutter.
False comparisons do not a valid argument make.
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post #83 of 103
I'm really hoping that they implement the semi translucent black glass with white text system wide. Including the menu bar and that includes the menu bar. Then make the apple in the top left chrome and match the UI up a little more with the mobile version of OS X. Love it or hate it things change just look at the hardware. The gorgeous white that made apple hardware famous is fading away as black is moving in to replace it. So I can just see them moving to black menus to match the glass frames around their LCDs. And think about it, it seams they are starting to test the new look out. You know test it in QuickTime and some menus then once its smoothed out implementing all round is a piece of cake. Or at least I hope so leaving it like this is half asses kind of reminds me of a mutt.
But for my most major concern is to finish the removal of aqua. I mean there just a few more changes that are needed to do this. I don't understand why people can't get over loosing aqua. They had years now to enjoy it. No one seams to remember that aqua was to visually match the colored plastic hardware at the time. Now we don't have those "candy" looking computers. We have these new machines that are silver and black glass. So it only makes since to remove the look that matches computers from 9 years ago. All they need to do is change the window tabs some buttons here there etc... To say goodbye to the candy and update the UI to unify everything. So my point is at least! remove aqua. If they keep the white thats cool though. Maybe a black glass with aluminum Ui will come eventually.
Maybe they'l decide to update the UI to chrome and black when they move to carbon-fiber hardware in 2015. So they can keep the mismatch theme going.
Oh and now that they are toying with the GUI Apple can you please update Display icon that i put in the the clock. You'r LCDs you are selling now a days have one piece stand not two legs. Hell that goes all the way back to aqua.
post #84 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by wobegon View Post

How does hiding the hard drive by default constitute as an attempt to fix what's not broken?

It doesn't. I'm just thinking that may be the direction Apple is headed. Most screen shots of Windows 7 show it to have a minimal Desktop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wobegon View Post

And just because they've hidden the HDD's desktop icon doesn't mean they've also hidden all other external volumes from appearing on the desktop.

First we have to establish whether or not Apple has or will indeed do this with Snow Leopard. Second, for me, it doesn't make much sense to have one but not the other. Part of the beauty of the current set-up is to drag between volumes with Spring Loaded Folders. This is something not easily done with the finder icon in the dock. Granted you can use the sidebar if you've set it up appropriately. This is the thing I don't like about the finder/ GUI is that it has lost it's consistency through the years. In an effort to add more features, it has actually gotten itself confused on which way to do things. I know I can enable "show hard disk icon" but it's just an observation on inconsistency. Even if I want to disable everything from mounting on the desktop, it will sill mount a burn folder if I put in a blank DVD to burn


Quote:
Originally Posted by wobegon View Post

Windows 7 still has a recycling bin on the desktop and as others have noted, Vista's gadgets introduced a whole new level of desktop clutter.

They must have it turned off in all the demo videos and pictures I see. Don't get me wrong.. If Apple wants to take away volumes mounting on the desktop, they should do it in way that removable media is still visible, possibly beside the dock, so that they can be ejected from the desktop. They should also insure that the finder icon is a good replacement for the Hard Drive icon, meaning that if I drag a file to it, it should spring open to my default finder window.

My main question again is "is the Macintosh HD" icon turned off by default now. There was a video blog posted earlier that said that it is. If it is, then has the finder icon become more intuitive. I also feel that if the Macintosh HD icon isn't on the desktop, it only makes sense that the rest aren't either, but there should be a visible, intuitive way to eject removable media without opening the finder window.

Automatic un-mounting of thumb drives would be nice too, and Disk Utility should be accessible via contextual menu.. but hey, beggars can't be choosers!
post #85 of 103
Okay,

First, I can confirm 10.6 the Hard Drive icons are gone by default. Reactivation is simple. I am presuming this is because file management is a task for the Finder app, not for the desktop.

Apple is slowly moving to new concepts in SL. I don't think I can quite put my finger on it yet, but I like it. It's sort of "document-centric" in the sense that each document or context takes centre stage in it's own environment. Files in the finder. Movies in QuickTime. I'm assuming a new release of iTunes with SL to compliment it too. iWork has already started to move in this direction.

USB devices by their nature are "now" devices though. You plug them in, do a bit with them, then remove them. They compliment the Desktop concept well and I think that's why they're left.

Interestingly enough, and this is slightly weird, the iDisk icon was also left on the desktop. I'm not exactly sure why though...
post #86 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubert View Post

Have you EVER seen a Winblows user with an icon-free desktop. Me? Never.

In fact, I bet you it's because Windows doesn't have volume-friendly browsing that Windows users have to resort to putting everything they want to access quickly on their desktops. I really feel sorry for them.
post #87 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by webraider View Post

Is it true that Apple has disabled the Hard Drive Icons from the Desktop by Default? I know some people don't care for it but this is actually something I still like to use.

Then enable it again.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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post #88 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubert View Post

Also, what is the deal with PC users always playing Solitaire on plane flights? Walk up and down the aisle on any plane flight and I guarantee you will see at least one of them playing Solitaire.

It's just a free game that comes with windows.
post #89 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunks View Post

Please use months rather than "summer" or "fall" to describe future events. At the very least disclose which hemisphere you are discussing so the rest of us will at least know you are wilfully ignorant.

Or you few people living in the southern hemisphere could show some intelligence and understand that the majority of the IT world is located in the northern hemisphere and that this is in fact an american website which is based of rumours about an american company? And which hemisphere is the US in?

I live in Sweden and I have the brains to actually understand that if I read on an Australian website and they write this Summer I know they mean their summer and not our...
post #90 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by wraithofwonder View Post

Why wait?

Snow Leopard will be a $9.95 upgrade for everyone who bought a Mac after June 8th.

The $29.95 price tag will be for the rest of us - of course, even then, why wait?

Assuming she doesn't intend to use the Mac mini for her TV, what you should be doing is pressuring your friend to buy an iMac.

An iMac + $19 adapter + existing display = a fantastic setup.

Why wait?? She isn't computer savvy and wants it already installed.
Why a Mini?? She will use the computer for e-mail, surfing the net, word-processing, and little else. She doesn't want a 20" screen and a 24" iMac would cost a lot more. Further, after learning the pros and cons re: a Mini vs. the iMac, she decided (as I did) that the Mini is a hell of a lot more bang for the buck.
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post #91 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubert View Post

Also, what is the deal with PC users always playing Solitaire on plane flights? Walk up and down the aisle on any plane flight and I guarantee you will see at least one of them playing Solitaire.

It's the one program that will run without crashing Windows.
post #92 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG4G View Post

Okay,

First, I can confirm 10.6 the Hard Drive icons are gone by default. Reactivation is simple. I am presuming this is because file management is a task for the Finder app, not for the desktop.

I think the original demos of Leopard on Apple.com had the hard drive icons off.
post #93 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

White on Black can look slick and cool for interfaces, but, it IS harder on the eyes. I prefer something easier on my eyes over looking cool. IMO.

Not generally true. In low light conditions, white on black is much easier on the eyes.
post #94 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffharris View Post


I'd like to see the Finder windows' forward and back buttons get keyboard commands like Safari.

To answer your suggestion about the finder windows' forward and back buttons, you can already set up keyboard commands in the Keyboard system preference for Apple-Left Arrow (Back) and Apple-Right Arrow (Forward)

by default, the commands are Apple-[ (Back) and Apple-] (Forward)
post #95 of 103
That works in Leopard, but only if the app is open, which doesn't really help. Looks like it's not open here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayfarer View Post

System Preferences can be accessed without launching the app!

post #96 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.metcalf View Post

That works in Leopard, but only if the app is open, which doesn't really help. Looks like it's not open here.

That was his point.
post #97 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by macintoshtoffy View Post

Its easy to become depressed when peoples stupidity makes ones head hurt.

Quite honestly I don't know why people whine to the degree which they do about Mac OS X look and feel; compared to Windows it is absolute perfection.

Very, very debatable.

Windows does things one way, Mac OS X does things another way. Neither is truly better or worse than the other. For example, I find that applications, both first- and third-party seem to work together in Mac OS X, but Windows has much, much better file management. The Finder is crap, and Apple needs to basically copy Windows Explorer, as far as I'm concerned.

As to why people whine and complain about the look and feel of Mac OS X, it's because Apple makes such a big deal about things "just working," things working consistently and things looking consistent. If one of the draws of the Mac platform is that it has a look and feel that is superior to Windows (again, debatable), then why is it okay when, in fact, Apple still has a myriad of user interface concepts clashing together, such as Aqua scroll bars, brushed metal here, unified plastic there, older system widgets here, etc. People will whine and complain until Apple makes a truly unified user interface, something they said was coming in Leopard but clearly never did.
post #98 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by L255J View Post

In fact, I bet you it's because Windows doesn't have volume-friendly browsing that Windows users have to resort to putting everything they want to access quickly on their desktops. I really feel sorry for them.

Actually, Windows has a much superior file manager called Windows Explorer. So, no, maybe, just maybe... It's because a lot of people just prefer putting things on their Desktop for quick access? I see Mac users do it all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubert View Post

I completely agree with your critique of the Finder icon on the Dock and its lack of useful functionality, but I disagree with your statement about the "empty desktop appearance" of Winblows 7. Their ripoff of Dashboard is to load up the Desktop with even more icons. Have you EVER seen a Winblows user with an icon-free desktop. Me? Never.

Also, what is the deal with PC users always playing Solitaire on plane flights? Walk up and down the aisle on any plane flight and I guarantee you will see at least one of them playing Solitaire.

Saying "Winblows" really makes you cool.

Also, the sidebar is "inspired" by the Dashboard in the way that was "inspired" by Konfabulator. It's not a rip-off, just a different implementation of a similar idea. You're aware you don't have to use the sidebar, right? And that you can completely hide/disable it if you don't like it? For those who want to use it, it can hardly be considered clutter, since it offers useful gadgets such as various system monitors. If I choose to use Dashboard and fill it with things I find useful, how can that be considered clutter?

And, for your information, I have seen many empty Windows desktops. I hate desktop icons and never use them on Windows, Linux and Mac OS X. Lots of people are like that, although more people tend to use them, so you're obviously more likely to see desktops that are... gasp!... being utilized.

As for your Solitaire comment, it's because PC users actually like to use their computers, and not just stare in awe at the exterior casing, as some Apple fans seem to enjoy doing.
post #99 of 103
I know this is totally late, but I just realized (a few days ago) that this white-text-on-black style being applied to SL's Dock contextual menus is not new to Mac OS X:





Just for reference, here's what that drop-down menu is coming from (note the orange arrow):



Sure would be nice to have ALL of Mac OS X's drop-down menus (and scroll bars, for that matter) look like GarageBand's. I just can't see Apple not going further than the Dock's menus in Snow Leopard.
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post #100 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

Why wait?? She isn't computer savvy and wants it already installed.
Why a Mini?? She will use the computer for e-mail, surfing the net, word-processing, and little else. She doesn't want a 20" screen and a 24" iMac would cost a lot more. Further, after learning the pros and cons re: a Mini vs. the iMac, she decided (as I did) that the Mini is a hell of a lot more bang for the buck.

1. You could install it for her. It's wizard-based and unless you want to wipe the disk, no harder than installing an application. Or if you're unavailable, she could get a student to do it. Helping their professor? Good students live for that sort of thing.

2. With respect, what were the pros and cons weighed, what did you consider?

The cheapest 24" LCD on Newegg will set her back by $220. The cheapest speakers with at least 4 eggs will cost $10. The cheapest microphone $2. The cheapest optical mouse $4. The cheapest keyboard $5, $20 if she wants a keyboard with a Mac power button on it. Let's call $12 the middle ground on the keyboard, forget quality and forget shipping for ease, that's $248 that needs to be spent after the computer.

With purchase of an iMac, you can get a $229 rebate on an iPod. You can't do that with the mini.

With an education discount:
a. 2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 1GB of RAM 120GB HDD Mac mini $549
b. 2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 2GB of RAM 320GB HDD Mac mini $749
c. 2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 4GB of RAM 640GB HDD 24" iMac $1,399

Now adjust for extras that need to be bought after to have a working machine:
a. 2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 1GB of RAM 120GB HDD Mac mini $797
b. 2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 2GB of RAM 320GB HDD Mac mini $997
c. 2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 4GB of RAM 640GB HDD 24" iMac $1,399

Now your friend sells the $229 iPod on Craigslist for let's say $190. The buyer is happy, they just saved $39 and tax. Your friend of course would have to pay for the iPod at the start out of pocket and wouldn't recover tax, but would recover the $229 offered as a rebate with purchase of an iMac.

I don't know what your local sales tax is, but for me it's just under 10%. So for ease, let's say yours is 10% and so your friend had to pay ~$23 in tax on the iPod. Still, your friend walks away with $167 made.

Now adjust the price of the iMac accordingly:
a. 2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (3MB cache) 1GB of RAM 120GB HDD Mac mini $797
b. 2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (3MB cache) 2GB of RAM 320GB HDD Mac mini $997
c. 2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (6MB cache) 4GB of RAM 640GB HDD 24" iMac $1,232

I see $235 between that higher end Mac mini and low end 24" iMac, plus tax of course, but still...

That $235 buys a much better processor, twice the RAM, twice the hard disk space and an iSight. Tell me that isn't worth $235! It also makes sure that not just the computer, but the integrated screen, integrated speakers, keyboard and mouse are part of the regular one year with Applecare and can all be extended to three. Should that cheap LCD fail on the mini, may your friend have fun with Acer's service.

It is also worthy of note that the Mac mini's RAM can be expanded to 4GB while the iMac can later be expanded to 8GB, and it isn't all that difficult to do either.

Here's another way to look at things, your friend may limit herself to the web, to word processing and email now, but what about tomorrow? Purchasing a computer is all about tomorrow. As high definition hard disk based camcorders drop in price like crazy and the resolution of every digital point and shoot skyrockets, space and processing power will become more and more important, even to the most average professor.

Put another way, why would your friend care one bit about having Snow Leopard if power wasn't a consideration? Isn't Leopard enough now?

Let us not forget that the printer promotion ends on the 20th (http://www.apple.com/promo/). Of course it tends to disappear only for awhile, still, if I were your friend I'd buy now. After all, forget the Mac mini v. iMac stuff above for a minute, what's the better deal? $100 off a printer or $10 off an OS? And don't say your friend doesn't need a printer, who couldn't use a good wifi printer?

One final note: no matter what she gets, be sure your friend buys Applecare and does so with an education discount! It's $119 for an iMac and $99 for a Mac mini with the discount, $169 and $149 respectively, without.
post #101 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

I installed it last night and while system response has improved a little, still takes longer to boot than 10.5.7. You would think that a 64-bit system that focuses on tweaks wouldn't take so long to boot. Oh well, I am still overall happy with it.

Although I expect you to have tried it, I just want to tell you that if os x always boots up kinda slow when its started up for the first time. A few restarts later it comes up to speed. I would suggest you restart the snow leopard build a few times and then compare it to 10.5.7
post #102 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by wraithofwonder View Post

1. You could install it for her. It's wizard-based and unless you want to wipe the disk, no harder than installing an application. Or if you're unavailable, she could get a student to do it. Helping their professor? Good students live for that sort of thing.

2. With respect, what were the pros and cons weighed, what did you consider?

The cheapest 24" LCD on Newegg will set her back by $220. The cheapest speakers with at least 4 eggs will cost $10. The cheapest microphone $2. The cheapest optical mouse $4. The cheapest keyboard $5, $20 if she wants a keyboard with a Mac power button on it. Let's call $12 the middle ground on the keyboard, forget quality and forget shipping for ease, that's $248 that needs to be spent after the computer.

With purchase of an iMac, you can get a $229 rebate on an iPod. You can't do that with the mini.

With an education discount:
a. 2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 1GB of RAM 120GB HDD Mac mini $549
b. 2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 2GB of RAM 320GB HDD Mac mini $749
c. 2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 4GB of RAM 640GB HDD 24" iMac $1,399

Now adjust for extras that need to be bought after to have a working machine:
a. 2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 1GB of RAM 120GB HDD Mac mini $797
b. 2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 2GB of RAM 320GB HDD Mac mini $997
c. 2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 4GB of RAM 640GB HDD 24" iMac $1,399

Now your friend sells the $229 iPod on Craigslist for let's say $190. The buyer is happy, they just saved $39 and tax. Your friend of course would have to pay for the iPod at the start out of pocket and wouldn't recover tax, but would recover the $229 offered as a rebate with purchase of an iMac.

I don't know what your local sales tax is, but for me it's just under 10%. So for ease, let's say yours is 10% and so your friend had to pay ~$23 in tax on the iPod. Still, your friend walks away with $167 made.

Now adjust the price of the iMac accordingly:
a. 2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (3MB cache) 1GB of RAM 120GB HDD Mac mini $797
b. 2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (3MB cache) 2GB of RAM 320GB HDD Mac mini $997
c. 2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (6MB cache) 4GB of RAM 640GB HDD 24" iMac $1,232

I see $235 between that higher end Mac mini and low end 24" iMac, plus tax of course, but still...

That $235 buys a much better processor, twice the RAM, twice the hard disk space and an iSight. Tell me that isn't worth $235! It also makes sure that not just the computer, but the integrated screen, integrated speakers, keyboard and mouse are part of the regular one year with Applecare and can all be extended to three. Should that cheap LCD fail on the mini, may your friend have fun with Acer's service.

It is also worthy of note that the Mac mini's RAM can be expanded to 4GB while the iMac can later be expanded to 8GB, and it isn't all that difficult to do either.

Here's another way to look at things, your friend may limit herself to the web, to word processing and email now, but what about tomorrow? Purchasing a computer is all about tomorrow. As high definition hard disk based camcorders drop in price like crazy and the resolution of every digital point and shoot skyrockets, space and processing power will become more and more important, even to the most average professor.

Put another way, why would your friend care one bit about having Snow Leopard if power wasn't a consideration? Isn't Leopard enough now?

Let us not forget that the printer promotion ends on the 20th (http://www.apple.com/promo/). Of course it tends to disappear only for awhile, still, if I were your friend I'd buy now. After all, forget the Mac mini v. iMac stuff above for a minute, what's the better deal? $100 off a printer or $10 off an OS? And don't say your friend doesn't need a printer, who couldn't use a good wifi printer?

One final note: no matter what she gets, be sure your friend buys Applecare and does so with an education discount! It's $119 for an iMac and $99 for a Mac mini with the discount, $169 and $149 respectively, without.

You, evidently, put a lot of thought and effort into this post, and I appreciate that. As for my installing SL for her and getting further involved than just advice, I want to avoid that. I have helped fellow professors in the past when they and I were using PC's. That became a huge burden because word got around and I was inundated with requests for help. Since I switched to Macs about 6 years ago, those help requests have dwindled (mainly because I'm not as experienced with Macs as I was with PCs). But, it seems that the Mac users are more tech savvy or they belong to forums like AI for help. I don't want to have the same situation that I had before. Advice is one thing, hands on is another.

I will send your advice to her by email; she can decide if she does want to get the iMac instead of the Mini. As for me, I still prefer the Mini even though you have made some good arguments to the contrary. You know the old saying, "If everyone liked the same color, there would be only one color of paint."

I had two monitors and the other peripherals that you mentioned when I made my choice to buy a Mini. I never looked back. I believe that my friend also has a monitor and those other peripherals.

Thanks again for your efforts on my friend's part. I'm sure she'll appreciate that, too.
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post #103 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by wraithofwonder View Post

Put another way, why would your friend care one bit about having Snow Leopard if power wasn't a consideration? Isn't Leopard enough now?.

She said that she read that SL resolves some problems that Leopard has.

BTW, this is the Mini that she wanted:

Regular price for Mini:
\t\t2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo $599
\t\t4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB $150
\t\t120GB Serial ATA Drive
\t\tSuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
\t\tUser's Guide (English)
\t\tiWork '09 preinstalled $49
\t\tAdapter FireWire 4to6 pin $29
\tAppleCare Protection Plan for Mac mini \t$149
\t\tSub total = $976.00
\t\tSales tax = $ 68.32\t
\t\tTotal = $1044.32

What my friend decided on (and may have pre-ordered): She got the info by phone from Apple.
Notice that she will not have to install RAM, SL, & iWork and is willing to pay extra for that.

Education Price for Mini \t
\t\t2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo $549 (-50)
\t\t4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB $135 (-15)
\t\t120GB Serial ATA Drive
\t\tSuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
\t\tUser's Guide (English)
\t\tiWork '09 preinstalled $41 (-8)
\t\tAppleCare Protection Plan for Mac mini \t$99 (-50)
\t\tAdapter FireWire 4to6 pin $29
(Don't know why the FW adapter, but maybe to transfer data from old PC to new Mac??????) Apple probably suggested it????
\t\tSub total = $853.00
\t\tSales tax = $ 59.71
\t\tTotal $912.71
\t\t
\t\t$1044.32 - $912.71 = $131.61 savings
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