Apple nears wireless license for iPhone in China - Page 2

You're correct on the Oil. If we are to take the estimates from the CIA World book of Facts:

Source: https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/CH.html

Oil - production:
3.725 million bbl/day (2008 est.)

Oil - consumption:
7.88 million bbl/day (2007 est.)

I'd imagine the consumption now is nearer 8.5 - 9 million bbl/day for 2009 est.

I am not Chinese in nationality or Asian in race, but even I know this to be untrue.

I can't point to "examples" of course, but in many many conversations with Asian and Chinese friends who have actually lived there or grown up there I can tell you that the American view of individual inalienable human rights is not necessarily shared by all cultures, China being one of them. It's not a given that "everyone aspires to be American" at all. This is just the view of Americans.

I'm not saying I agree with some of my Chinese friends points of view on this because I don't. However, the idea that intelligent people from China might disagree with the idea of inalienable *individual* human rights is a simple fact. It's not because they are dumb, or mislead or misinformed or any of the above. I've had some very spirited arguments with some very intelligent and learned people from that part of the world over this very topic.

Americans don't have the market cornered on all truth, knowledge, liberty and justice as you may believe.

I think they, for the most part, are referring to people from their parents' generation, which has grew up in a very interesting time, shall we say...


Europe is still very xenophobic and racist, it's just people won't express those ideas anymore because they have become politically incorrect and frowned upon by the general public. It's easy to fear the unknown and ignorance is often the root of racism and bigotry.


America is mostly influence by Christianity, not the ancient Greek culture, which is for the most part lost during the Middle ages. Shall I start by mentioning the Salem witch trials?


We will see whether this is true when the Chinese government starts banning/crippling the new iPod touch (also rumoured to have a camera) when it ships in September.

May I ask in what ways are you qualified to speak on this matter?

He seems to be equating the Chinese government with regimes like Norh Korea or the Taliban.

There is hardly any comparison.

Not true. The US system of government is heavily influenced by ancient Greece, the first democracy, and the place where democracy was born. As well as ancient Rome, where the very idea of a "Senate" came from. Don't forget about the Magna Carta either.

America, like China, has a variety of influences going back thousands of years, much more than simply "Christianity". (I know that Chinese communist propaganda equates Christianity and the US government as being one in the same, which is dead wrong)

BTW, ancient Greece died out long before "the middle ages" as you stated, but her ideas still live on today, just like ancient Chinese ideas like those of Sun Tzu live on even though the Chinese government of that time is long gone.

Again we have proof of horrible crimes committed by the past and current chinese leaders . The CHINESE from china do not have freedom of thought or expression .

I am not saying anything else my friend .

Get a map of china .Throw a dart. Tell me the city you chose and i will send you a list of people killed or jailed by the red communist gov't.

China is not a lot of fun for most of them .

And for the googles of the world to help them is criminal .

peace

9

I would argue that Christianity has influenced the whole Western civilization from many more centuries, the influence of which can be found in the opening of the Declaration of Independance of 1776.

Also, where did you learn that about that particular piece of Chinese propaganda?


Well, we have today constitutes only a small percentage of the many ideas proposed by the ancient Greeks. However, from what we can see from Plato's Republic, many ancient Greeks did not view democracy with favour.

I regret to say America is 100 percent based on Greece and greek ideals
WE don't always achieve those lofty Athenian visions but we do strive for that.

You sound so stupid bringing up witch trials . It means nothing to our topic or where the topic is going. You only show us that you have a rock solid picture of america and will bring up a million things to prove your point .
So what ? You truly don't know a thing about us do you ???

America has many faults. Too many to count, Yet we just had another election and democracy grinds slowly on.

Americans enjoy many freedoms that the chinese don't.
And that fact is solid .

Please don't feel so insecure about your roots. Christianity actually provided a lot of positive influence on America, the value expressed at the beginning of the Declaration of independence being a prime example. I brought up the witch trials because a lot of people here appear to be in denial about the darker part of their history.


It's true that I don't live in American (but not very far away from it) and enjoy watching Talking to Americans as light entertainment.

What do i need to say for you to address my post and my thoughts ??

Very light i would say .
insecure ? Nah america has some very very dark shit that we don't speak about. Its only the fact that the rest if the world did much worse shit than us that gives us a free pass to tell others what to do . kidding .


The witch trials were sadly imported from torture prone europe. Yet at that time in world history there was people who walked this earth who believed that dancing was the devils blackest art . And a girl strolling and skipping along one fine Salem day got burned for her spring is here dance .

peace

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.

Academic qualifications? Personal experiences while living in China? Critical thinking skills perhaps?

I am so sorry. Please read up on china.
My wife is chinese. i love the culture. Iread every and anything i can about the middle kingdom.

I do not equate anything, i am only stating facts accepted by dozens of peace groups world wide

Google >>>human rights china <<< and read up my buddy .
please
9

Ha HA
No sorry dude I have studied informally all the great civilizations of the world thru out history, For decades,

I watched south Korea from when I was 13 yrs old <1970 > And I hated park for his brutal ways and I hated America for sleeping with him. And one day democracy came to south Korea and I went out alone that night and had a single malt scotch to celebrate that in my lifetime i saw millions of oppressed people freed.


But of course I try keep my posts simple because even thou I am very well read I am no scholar so I, strive to understate the true horror of what a fascist like gov't can be like .

My simple point is that major american companies who thrive under our freedoms have cut deals with china that help china to spy on its people .
And I hope apple is not doing the same .

I hope my poor writing skills have not affected my humble meager point .

peace

9

I think the reason the China carrier wants to disable WiFi is so they can rip the customer with data charges. There are WiFi phones available in China and many more can be smuggled like anything else. Anyway, the way to play this game is for Apple to disable WiFi via software that is easily jail broken... like everything else.

Anyway, the challenges to these regimes like China and Iran are not the US armadas. It is the spread of ideas via the internet. The government needs to focus on the internet to make it easier for the people in these countries to access remote sites, proxies. After all we designed the internet. Time to bring these regimes down from within.

What a great suggestion.

Here's a thought, how about Apple just not sell the iPhone in China. In fact, I think all American companies should just pull all their products from Chinese shelves and let China enjoy its socialist paradise unmolested or influenced by the culture and products of democratic society. Let them continue the believe they are the center of the world. I'm also in favor of leaving the flat earth folks in peace as well. It may not be true, but it seems that China's biggest industry is manufacturing or ripping off what free people produce. If China wants our products, they should have to play ball by our rules, not the other way around. I suspect after a few years of total cultural, economic, and technological isolation, the problem will correct itself.

agreed

I have always wondered if companies like MSFT, INTC, CSCO, IBM, EMC, QCOM, or even the EU companies when they sell products to China, if they leave software and hardware trap doors that would allow the respective governments to hack the systems and do surveillance. Does not have to be something active... just subtle security flaws.

Countries like Iran should be particularly vulnerable... since they import most if not all their IT stuff. I would hope our government and the EU sponsors software, websites, proxies, etc that allow the public to stay informed of the really corrupt regime. With all their wealth in oil, gas, the Iranians live in dirt poor conditions, with hi inflation, hardly any sewage systems, water distribution, decent health care, etc. Meanwhile the power nuts want to build nukes... as if it would make them safe! Look what happened to the Soviet Union and their 20,000 thermonuclear devices... like Rome, they fell from within.

China's population is very interested in Western-Style Capitalism, and with the ever-expanding foothold of Capitalism in china, they will move further and further from Communism toward something entirely new.

The Chinese people are just now beginning to realize that rather than struggle their entire lives to save a few bucks for retirement, they can actually enjoy a little bit of their lives along the way. Vacations. Travel. Even within their own borders it is somewhat new a concept.

China is rapidly realizing that they must merge their tradition with modernity if they are to become a true Superpower. You can not be one if a majority of your populace lives the way they did 1000 years ago, even if you manufacture 70% of the world's goods out of a few comparably small geographic areas.

I disagree strongly with your view that they look at westerners as white devils or any other such thing. That has never been my experience in China. They are not even taught western political structures in school. Many of them do not even understand why our President changes so often, where their own politicians can "serve" a lifetime.

Also, I would say that China is not making socialism work, or Marxism for that matter. Instead I would say that the socialistic, marxistic, and communistic schools of government thought in China are hanging on right now by the skin of their teeth. They are struggling to be relevant.

China is growing at a rate that is so explosive it defies the ability to comprehend. Western influences are infusing themselves into China every minute of every day. this is a country that had an emperor less than one hundred years ago, and communism instilled roughly 50 years ago.

Watching China over the next 20 years will be some of the most exciting times in this century.

Another ignorant foreigner talking crap about the United States.

1. The US isn't going bankrupt.
2. Racism and Xenophobia are subjective terms used liberally by ignorant foreigners like yourself to describe what they do not understand.
3. Americans can do anything we want, and you can like it, or not like it, but what you can't do is expect to come on a board like this, make asinine comments like yours, and not have some American like me tell you that yours are the comments of an ignorant twat. Consider revising them.

What you said for the most part reflects the modern day China, although most politicians at the highest level have not served a lifetime since Chairman Mao's generation.

The US does have a lot of foreign debt and China is indeed one of the their biggest creditors. However, I think China is probably more nervous than the US right now because Obama can start their cash printing machine at any time (or have already started) and whatever China has saved in the form of foreign reserves will be gone in no time. Hopefully they learned from this not to put all their eggs into one basket.

As for racism and xenophobia, it's in fact widespread everywhere, and most certainly in the US. Although as I have said in a previous post, people no longer express those sentiments publicly and may not even be consciously aware of their biases since they have become so frowned upon, but the intolerance we have deep down could very well take many generations to root out (assuming we have become less ignorant during that time)

China manufacturers only about 11% of world goods measured by dollar value. The US manufactures about twice that amount.

humor me...

agreed on what? china has been isolated for 20 years since 1950 and they lived not quite bad. before 1840, they have been living more or less peacefully on their land for darn 3000 years until the west wanted to buy stuff from china and sell opium to china. as matter of the facts, it is US which initiated diplimatic relation w/ red china in 70s.

so china does not oil? don't remember which idiot said so on this thread. right, right, please enlighten me: greek invented democracy and rome had the senate. they sounded so granted... if so, don't you think it pathetic that it took 2000 years for the west to grasp the basic idea of democracy ?

how about to make a contest between u and me: you throw a dart onto america map for a city, i will tell you how many native american were butchered while i throw a dart on chinese map for a city, u quote me the number of ppl killed by chinese?

american have many faults, why can't chinese? just because american have the freedom, it is ok for no one to talk about the dark side of america? r u brain dead or what?

your wife is chinese? so what!

if u bs other countries, why can't they do the same thing to america? this forum is a non political forum for apple product. just because i am a chinese who is so luckily using a mac under the mercy of ur free mind type, then i am an inferior mac citizen to any other mac users from the great grand free world? a pure economical decision on removal wifi from chinese iphone draw so much ire from so many freedom fighters. i am amazed by this irrational PiC.

please, for christ's sake, don't tell me ur wife is chinese too...

Chinese-American posting from Beijing. I had an interesting talk with a Chinese national regarding TS. He argued that the suppression of the protests was a necessary evil in order to preserve the greater good of China. Because China is an enormous country with over 56 different minority groups, ranging from filthy rich to dirt poor, a "western" style democracy would be something difficult to implement; and not necessarily a better style of government for the needs of the people at the current time.

He said that China was paving the way to establish D. in 20 to 30 years. At first I was hesitant to give merit to his viewpoint. But after challenging some of my own assumptions I realize that his thoughts do have some merit. First off, the western world is ruled by law, while Asia is ruled by "guan xi", relationships. The change from the current administration to one ruled by D. would create havoc with the way business and politics is done in China. After the 2008 olympics, China's upper management have ruled more so by the greek concept of the "rule of law", but this change will take some time to trickle down. Secondly, Chinese society is more communal than individualistic. This challenges the idea that "freedom" is the most important right to all cultures. From a Chinese perspective, harmony is much more important than freedom. These differences alone make me see how practically implementing a D. in a country with a population 4 x the size of the US with 5,000 years of habits resistant to the western world (And rightfully so, opium wars anybody?) perhaps would cause more problems than solutions in the current political and social climate of the east. Of course having inalienable freedoms and rights (And the use of facebook!) would be ideal, but let's not blindly assert our ideals unless we have practical solutions to bring to the table.

Regarding racism,

I think it is necessary to add some context to this word. Firstly, "racism" is a hot word in the west. It brings with it connotations of slavery, the civil rights movement, the KKK, Nazi's, along with talk show hosts, law suits etc.

The West, especially the United States and Britain, has learned the evils of racism the hard way, but being the inflictor of oppression to minority groups and various nations across the world.

Now China, on the other has being the one oppressed in the last 100-200 years. Starting with British imperialism, the Japanese invasion, etc. In the hearts of the Chinese, their once great nation was brought to it's knees and it seeks to gain former glory by first and foremost regaining Unity and cohesiveness. Now, in the grand scheme of things, this is considered nationalism, and perhaps mild racism, but I think it is wrong for the West, who has already learned this lesson the hard way, to stand on moral high ground and criticize Chinese of racism.

Sure, we need to encourage each other and push each other in lessons we've learned, but this should be out of care and not through a condemning spirit of judgment.

China does a lot of things right and a lot of things wrong, so does the US. The media of both has it's share of propaganda. Let's not make broad assumptions to prove a point.