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Apple's iPhone "wrecking" the cell industry - Page 4

post #121 of 211
Luckily for Verizon they don't have to worry with glutting their network with the most popular phones. And they still get to over charge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

And your point? Is it cool for AT&T to act like a slum lord then? Glut the network, let it crap out, and overcharge at the same time?
post #122 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Dropped calla isn't proof that AT&T hasn't upgraded it's network. With the number of iPhones in New York if AT&T had not upgraded it's network you likely would not be getting any calls at all.

Upgrade? "Dropped calls isn't proof" - then what is it? Do you know how often I can't even browse Safari on 3G here? If that an upgrade - how poor was it before? As my long time iPhone friend told me- "Verizon owns NY- get use to it."
I extremely doubt that it has been upgraded here.
Having said that, I wouldn't trade my iPhone experience for anything else.
post #123 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Luckily for Verizon they don't have to worry with glutting their network with the most popular phones. And they still get to over charge.

AS long as the calls aren't dropped and the network is consistent- who cares?
post #124 of 211
Does this analyst work for a cell phone company? I don't see how his list of effects of the iPhone translates to wrecking the cellular industry. Why shouldn't customers focus on the level of service and the features provided? He acts as if cellular companies have never held back features for reasons other than cost or technical limitations. Maybe he would like to explain to me why Bell (in Canada) disabled the GPS in my phone (and removed the pre-installed map) only to introduce the "feature" two years later in thier new phones. My guess is that they hadn't figured out how to profit from the "feature" yet. Luckily I unlocked my phone, re-enabled the gps and downloaded a map program (as well changed a setting to allow it to play mp3 ringtones that I created myself, instead of Bells $3 ringtones). The North American cellular industry is disgusting. If Apple can throw its weight around and shake things up a bit, it will be for the better (although AT&T exclusivity should go).
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post #125 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

And your point? Is it cool for AT&T to act like a slum lord then? Glut the network, let it crap out, and overcharge at the same time?

If the network is being overtaxed because there are too many people on it, then obviously AT&T should be charging more to reach a balance. When you say that AT&T is overcharging, in the same sentence that you say there is a glut of users, all you do is show that you have no clue what you are talking about.
post #126 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmidm77 View Post

If the network is being overtaxed because there are too many people on it, then obviously AT&T should be charging more to reach a balance. When you say that AT&T is overcharging, in the same sentence that you say there is a glut of users, all you do is show that you have no clue what you are talking about.

What you talking about ? AT&T should charge more for crap?
And I have no clue- HA!
Every other day AT&T is pushing more and more crappy little 3G phones for sale on TV and in full page print adds, overtaxing their network even more. AT&T is very slick indeed.
post #127 of 211
By land mass Austrailia is smaller than the US. Other than that there are many differences that you don't consider.

AT&T's and Verizon's subscriber base is eight times Austrailia's entire population. The US is divided between GSM and CDMA. US carriers have many more people to serve and US infrastructure is divided between two different network technologies.

All Austrailian carriers use GSM. From what I understand the Austrailian government invests money into the wireless infrastructure. The US government does not directly invest money into wireless infrastructure.

The point is that these differences between Austrailia and the US make it much easier and cheaper to build an advanced network in Austrialia.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cy_starkman View Post

Actually no that's not the answer...

I am in Australia with a landmass equivalent to the USA and with only 20 million people versus 280 million, what's that nearly a 15th the population.. spread over the same area.

I live in the middle of the country in a town of 27,000 people. The nearest population centres of significant numbers are 1500km + away. We have 21Mbit 3G here.

Often my iPhone 3GS clocks faster than my ADSL. MMS worked straight away and tethering also. I am up to 30km's out of town in a desert able to play / upload video. When I am on some of the larger communities nearby (1-200k) with 2-300 people EVEN they have a fully operational 3G network running at 7.2Mbit minimum.

Telstra, Optus, Vodaphone / 3 all offer the iPhone and Apple sells it unlocked on its AU website.

So what exactly is the problem in the USA with your carriers. Even CDMA/EVDO got shut down over a year ago, nationally, it was outdated.
post #128 of 211
The reason you cannot browse 3G is because the iPhone is a huge success. You refuse to acknowledge that AT&T is upgrading, they are unable to keep their network ahead of the demand. All of the AT&T phones I see walking around NY doesn't show me it's owned by Verizon.


Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Upgrade? "Dropped calls isn't proof" - then what is it? Do you know how often I can't even browse Safari on 3G here? If that an upgrade - how poor was it before? As my long time iPhone friend told me- "Verizon owns NY- get use to it."
I extremely doubt that it has been upgraded here.
Having said that, I wouldn't trade my iPhone experience for anything else.
post #129 of 211
So Verizon never drops calls?

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

AS long as the calls aren't dropped and the network is consistent- who cares?
post #130 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

So Verizon never drops calls?

Maybe once or thrice in 8 years that I used them. That's a pretty great rate I'd say-must be one of the reasons if not the main one that they are so popular with business here.
post #131 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

The reason you cannot browse 3G is because the iPhone is a huge success.

IPhone has been a huge success for over 2 years. Apple doesn't run or maintain the 3G network, AT&T does if memory serves.They are responsible not the iPhone.
post #132 of 211
My point is that the success of the iPhone is the primary reason that AT&T is having network problems. While I agree AT&T is unable to get it's network far ahead of iPhone demand.

If AT&T were able to build these upgrades without the pressure of the iPhone their network would likely be in a far better position. Right now they are improving just ahead of being overwhelmed by the demand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

IPhone has been a huge success for over 2 years. Apple doesn't run or maintain the 3G network, AT&T does if memory serves.They are responsible not the iPhone.
post #133 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by davesmall View Post

This author is so far off the deep end. Whoa!

AT&T and all of the other cellular providers imagine an Internet with a toll booth at every entry point, on every device, and at every node or junction. Consumers want an internet with unlimited everything, one monthly charge per customer (not per device), no mention of terms like: Contracts, Kilobytes, Roaming Charges, Cancellation Charges, etc.

What's really happening here is that Apple is giving the customers what they want but AT&T (and the other networks) are giving the customers the shaft (or to be nice, exactly what the customers don't want). The Cable companies like Comcast are certainly no better.

right, i am sick of ATT charging so damned much for
1- phone service minutes
2- Data plan
3- SMS plan

at the end of the day i am charged TONS for my wife and my iphones and a Blackberry. isnt like at home where i get 1 charge for a cable modem and then entire house uses it.

wish i could use the iphone 3g on a network that allowed unlimited use, phone, data and SMS without all the charges. ie sprint's all in one fee. some smaller carriers even just charge $50 a month for all of that. not ATT for that you would easily pay about $150 + taxes. freaking ripoff
post #134 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

What you talking about ? AT&T should charge more for crap?
And I have no clue- HA!
Every other day AT&T is pushing more and more crappy little 3G phones for sale on TV and in full page print adds, overtaxing their network even more. AT&T is very slick indeed.

I live in a significantly less dense area than a place like San Fransisco, and I get extremely fast 3G service and never a dropped call on my iPhone. If there are areas, like San Fransisco, where the sheer numbers of users are essentially breaking the current network, then AT&T should price accordingly in that area to reduce the number of users. The fact that they have one service rate across the entire United States is moronic, and they deserve whatever scorn the get. But then clueless people would bitch to Congress (or are members of) about how dense urban centers are being targeted with price discrimination.
post #135 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchelljd View Post

right, i am sick of ATT charging so damned much

No one forced you to take AT&T service.


Quote:
i wish i could use the iphone 3g on a network that allowed unlimited use, phone, data and SMS without all the charges. ie sprint's all in one fee. some smaller carriers even just charge $50 a month for all of that. not ATT for that you would easily pay about $150 + taxes. freaking ripoff

Sprint used to charge a lot more for data, Sprint only recently began that low all in one fee because they are near deaths door. If Sprint were in AT&T or Verizon's position they would charge just as much.
post #136 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

"Baloney" to this whole article. No one who wants an iPhone is going to let a few remaining issues get in their way. I went to an Apple Store just yesterday, and people are STILL LINING UP to buy the iPhone. Incredible! Fifteen minutes before the store opened, there were no less than 10 people wanting to purchase... that's staying power.

Also, the overly dramatic "wrecking" the industry nonsense is just that. Hype.

Two things here.

First is that when we were in England last week, we had problems getting a 3GS for our daughter. Out of stock at both O2 and CarWarehouse most of the time. Finally, Apple had it.

But this also points up something weird about the way some phones are distributed there, and maybe other places as well that has points detracted when compared to the US and AT&T.

When we went to O2, we found that not only were all the stores out of stock for several days, but that when they did get some stock in, it was done in a very strange way.

Here, when AT&T gets the phones in, you can get any type of plan you want that's being offered, or even a pay as you go method where you just buy the phone. Any phones there can go to any plan, or to pay as you go.

Not at O2, and CarWharehouse!

When they get phones in stock, they get phones designated for a particular plan. So they may get 20 phones for an 18 month plan, 6 phones for a monthly plan, and 8 phones for a pay as you go plan.

Each individual phone can only be sold with the plan that comes with THAT phone. If they run out of phones with their particular plan, then they can't sell the others with it.

Strange!

We couldn't get an 18 month or monthly plan for out daughter as we didn't have a credit history there, and they will only sell the plans with a British bank issued debit card. It would have taken us longer to get one than our planned trip. So we decided to get a pay as you go plan. We could buy the phone with AmEx, and pay for the Bolt ons and Top Ups with Amex, or pounds. Again, strange!

But we couldn't find pay as you go phones. We ended up buying a sim from O2 that would work in an iPhone, but was not an iPhone sim, as those are only available WITH iPhones, and buying the phone at Apple. So we have to pay for WiFi and Data serves at £10 a month, in addition to the Top Up charges.

Apple thought that was strange too.

Oh well, at least she got her phone.

Now, as far as Apple "wreaking" the industry, I think too many people are reading too much into that.

He didn't mean that literally.

What he meant was that Apple changes some basic relationships between the phone manufacturers and the carriers, which they certainly did. He's not been the only writer to express that. In fact here, many people posting have said that very same thing with glee since the 3G and the store came out, and even before with the 2g model.

It's true. AT&T has granted Apple a great deal of power in the relationship that was never before given. Other carriers that carry the iPhone have also broken down those barriers that were set up.

Even Verizon is now talking about their having their own app store, though as is typical with Verizon, THEY want to control it. Still, that's a big break from the past for them.

Phone manufacturers have never before had the freedom to come out with so many features without first having to go through carrier vetting and approvals.
post #137 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by cy_starkman View Post

Actually no that's not the answer...

I am in Australia with a landmass equivalent to the USA and with only 20 million people versus 280 million, what's that nearly a 15th the population.. spread over the same area.

I live in the middle of the country in a town of 27,000 people. The nearest population centres of significant numbers are 1500km + away. We have 21Mbit 3G here.

Often my iPhone 3GS clocks faster than my ADSL. MMS worked straight away and tethering also. I am up to 30km's out of town in a desert able to play / upload video. When I am on some of the larger communities nearby (1-200k) with 2-300 people EVEN they have a fully operational 3G network running at 7.2Mbit minimum.

Telstra, Optus, Vodaphone / 3 all offer the iPhone and Apple sells it unlocked on its AU website.

So what exactly is the problem in the USA with your carriers. Even CDMA/EVDO got shut down over a year ago, nationally, it was outdated.

You're not stating the situation correctly. You don't have your population spread out across most of the land mass. Most of the population centers on the coasts, with just a small number living in the interior. That's very different than in the states. Even if you don't include the large cities in the middle of the US, we still have several times your entire population in the interior of the country. That makes it much harder, and far more expensive.

As you can see, 84.7% of your people live within 50 kilometers (31 miles) of the coast. This is from the last census. It's not likely that much has changed since then.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@....0?OpenDocument

From this map, you'll see that coverage is MUCH sparser over the entire country than it is in the US.

http://www.telstra.com.au/mobile/net...age/index.html
post #138 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

The reason these types of examples hold no merit is because US carriers have to cover the third largest country in the world. Which is far more difficult and expensive than covering any one European country. Sweden is the size of one medium sized US state. For carriers to only use their resources to cover that much area would not cost nearly as much.

Why on earth aren't there cell networks in America that only cover one state? If trying to cover the entire US is the problem, let each state have their own networks.
post #139 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

AS long as the calls aren't dropped and the network is consistent- who cares?

I haven't gotten any dropped calls, and I live in NYC. I did have a lot of problems for the first three months with the phone going from 3G to EDGE and back, but never a dropped call. Things have been pretty good since then, though the data speeds could be better.

It would be nice if GSM call quality was better though. No phone I've ever used on any GSM network as ever had call quality as good as what I had on Sprint either with my old Samsung i300, i330 or Treo 700p.
post #140 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

My point is that the success of the iPhone is the primary reason that AT&T is having network problems. While I agree AT&T is unable to get it's network far ahead of iPhone demand.

If AT&T were able to build these upgrades without the pressure of the iPhone their network would likely be in a far better position. Right now they are improving just ahead of being overwhelmed by the demand.

Well, to be fair to Tekstud's point of view, neither Cingular nor AT&T were ever stated as having the greatest networks or service. That goes long before the iPhone made its appearance.

I remember that as they were merging, the question in the industry was whether two second rate carriers together would be better than either one , or worse.

I'm not sure we have an answer to that.

My experience has been that AT&T is ok. Not great, not as bad as some are trying to say.

I don't think the differences between the major carriers are that great, on average.

But it's true the massive data usage of the iPhone makes it more difficult for AT&T than it would be otherwise.
post #141 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorya View Post

Why on earth aren't there cell networks in America that only cover one state? If trying to cover the entire US is the problem, let each state have their own networks.

Great idea. Can you imagine the screaming when you went across the border to another State and got charged roaming? Absurd!
post #142 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Well, to be fair to Tekstud's point of view, neither Cingular nor AT&T were ever stated as having the greatest networks or service. That goes long before the iPhone made its appearance.

To be fair, TenoBell correctly stated that they have upgraded their network extensively. The info about Cingular and GSM’s shortcoming were well known.. Teckstud still claims that AT&T has done nothing to upgrade their network despite plenty of evidence to the contrary.


PS: Welcome back.
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post #143 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorya View Post

Why on earth aren't there cell networks in America that only cover one state? If trying to cover the entire US is the problem, let each state have their own networks.

I hope you aren’t suggested a state run and owned cellular network. I’ll still with my free coast to coast person to person calls and unlimited data regardless of where I am in the US. My US coverage also includes DC, Puerto Rico, Alaska and Hawaii.
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post #144 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

To be fair, TenoBell correctly stated that they have upgraded their network extensively. The info about Cingular and GSM’s shortcoming were well known.. Teckstud still claims that AT&T has done nothing to upgrade their network despite plenty of evidence to the contrary.

It's a bit of this, and a bit of that.

Yes, I know how much they've upgraded. I've stated that myself. But if service doesn't get better, then no matter how much money they put into the network, people will still have complaints.

The thing that's needed, is upgrades coming in place faster than the services that need them. If they just manage to keep treading water, service will never get better, and people will still complain.

Would I like faster 3G? Yup! Sometimes it's just too slow. It also varies too much. I've gotten speeds, as measured by Speed Test, from a low of 146 Kb/s to a high of 1265 Kb/s downloads, to a low of 3 Kb/s to a high of 343 Kb/s uploads.

That's too much variation.

It does show that AT&T is capable of very good upload speeds, and even has good download speed capabilities. But the average is at most half the max.

I'm hoping that when they move all the 3G to the 850 MHz transmitters, things will change.
post #145 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I hope you arent suggested a state run and owned cellular network. Ill still with my free coast to coast person to person calls and unlimited data regardless of where I am in the US. My US coverage also includes DC, Puerto Rico, Alaska and Hawaii.

I believe it also covers the US run islands such as the Marshalls, etc.
post #146 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Yes, I know how much they've upgraded. I've stated that myself. But if service doesn't get better, then no matter how much money they put into the network, people will still have complaints.

That is a separate situation and shouldnt be thrown in with statements stating that no upgrades have been made. That is just a lie or blatant ignorance, depending on the person stating it.


Quote:
The thing that's needed, is upgrades coming in place faster than the services that need them. If they just manage to keep treading water, service will never get better, and people will still complain.

Would I like faster 3G? Yup! Sometimes it's just too slow. It also varies too much. I've gotten speeds, as measured by Speed Test, from a low of 146 Kb/s to a high of 1265 Kb/s downloads, to a low of 3 Kb/s to a high of 343 uploads.

I havent seen any 3GS network issues like I did with the 3G going on sale. For selling over a 1M units in a weekend it went quite smoothly. I would like for Apple and AT&T to stop selling units if the network gets saturated in an area, but of course they wont do that and the logistics of doing that arent pretty. What the original failed to really point out is that the iPhone is a blessing and curse for AT&T who is getting great business all with paid data plans but at the cost of spending billions to upgrade their network. They really just cant keep up with the demand. I saw a lot of improvement in the first part of this year in network speeds, as Ive written about on these forums. Once the iPhone sales subside well probably notice that same increase again, though that probably wont be until January as the device will likely be a hot seller until after Christmas.

Quote:
That's too much variation.

It does show that AT&T is capable of very good upload speeds, and even has good download speed capabilities. But the average is at most half the max.

I'm hoping that when the move all the 3G to the 850 MHz transmitters, things will change.

Besides the plethora of tower to tower issues based on frequency, distance, number of users, types of users, interference, etc. most of that is just part of using a cell phone. It will get better, albeit slowly, but I also expect well see a noticeable jump in quality when the switch to the 850MHz spectrum happens.
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post #147 of 211
Yes I feel this is essentially the same as what I'm saying.

Some of these upgrades AT&T should have made before the iPhone. Now with the iPhone they are forced to make them. If they could have made them without the pressure of the iPhone, the network would have likely been in much better shape. AT&T wouldn't have such a bad reputation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's a bit of this, and a bit of that.

Yes, I know how much they've upgraded. I've stated that myself. But if service doesn't get better, then no matter how much money they put into the network, people will still have complaints.

The thing that's needed, is upgrades coming in place faster than the services that need them. If they just manage to keep treading water, service will never get better, and people will still complain.

Would I like faster 3G? Yup! Sometimes it's just too slow. It also varies too much. I've gotten speeds, as measured by Speed Test, from a low of 146 Kb/s to a high of 1265 Kb/s downloads, to a low of 3 Kb/s to a high of 343 Kb/s uploads.

That's too much variation.

It does show that AT&T is capable of very good upload speeds, and even has good download speed capabilities. But the average is at most half the max.

I'm hoping that when they move all the 3G to the 850 MHz transmitters, things will change.
post #148 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I haven't gotten any dropped calls, and I live in NYC. I did have a lot of problems for the first three months with the phone going from 3G to EDGE and back, but never a dropped call. Things have been pretty good since then, though the data speeds could be better.

It would be nice if GSM call quality was better though. No phone I've ever used on any GSM network as ever had call quality as good as what I had on Sprint either with my old Samsung i300, i330 or Treo 700p.

I've has 2 times where I could not make a call. One was immediately after the fireworks ended on July 4th. Maybe there was a mad rush of calls - people meeting others, who knows? 3G data is where most of the problems have been - where Safari just circles and circles. But most of the time it is fine. But why should there be this inconsistency? Where I work by Boomingdales the 3G is bad. But in the East viilage it's great. Who knows?
post #149 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Yes I feel this is essentially the same as what I'm saying.

Some of these upgrades AT&T should have made before the iPhone. Now with the iPhone they are forced to make them. If they could have made them without the pressure of the iPhone, the network would have likely been in much better shape. AT&T wouldn't have such a bad reputation.

Their reputation is bad because they put out a glut of other 3G phones and advertise them relentlessly before fixing the network.
post #150 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Great idea. Can you imagine the screaming when you went across the border to another State and got charged roaming? Absurd!

That's when the government should step in to cap roaming charges, like they've just done in Europe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I hope you aren’t suggested a state run and owned cellular network. I’ll still with my free coast to coast person to person calls and unlimited data regardless of where I am in the US. My US coverage also includes DC, Puerto Rico, Alaska and Hawaii.

That isn't what I meant... I meant a commercial network that only existed in a single state.
post #151 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That is a separate situation and shouldn’t be thrown in with statements stating that no upgrades have been made. That is just a lie or blatant ignorance, depending on the person stating it.

What cellphone provider doesn't patch a pole every once in a while - which by your definition is an upgrade? People aren't liars or blatantly ignorant - your interpretation of an upgrade is however simpleminded.
post #152 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Teckstud still claims that AT&T has done nothing to upgrade their network despite plenty of evidence to the contrary.


PS: Welcome back.

But why does solopism still insist that a patch to a pole is a network upgrade?
post #153 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That is a separate situation and shouldnt be thrown in with statements stating that no upgrades have been made. That is just a lie or blatant ignorance, depending on the person stating it.

It may seem true to some people. But thats beside the point. AT&T spent $11 billion to upgrade their network over the past 12 months or so, and it doesn't FEEL as though they have. That's the problem.


Quote:
I havent seen any 3GS network issues like I did with the 3G going on sale. For selling over a 1M units in a weekend it went quite smoothly. I would like for Apple and AT&T to stop selling units if the network gets saturated in an area, but of course they wont do that and the logistics of doing that arent pretty. What the original failed to really point out is that the iPhone is a blessing and curse for AT&T who is getting great business all with paid data plans but at the cost of spending billions to upgrade their network. They really just cant keep up with the demand. I saw a lot of improvement in the first part of this year in network speeds, as Ive written about on these forums. Once the iPhone sales subside well probably notice that same increase again, though that probably wont be until January as the device will likely be a hot seller until after Christmas.

I haven't either. That's the minimum we should expect, isn't it?

Quote:
Besides the plethora of tower to tower issues based on frequency, distance, number of users, types of users, interference, etc. most of that is just part of using a cell phone. It will get better, albeit slowly, but I also expect well see a noticeable jump in quality when the switch to the 850MHz spectrum happens.

While the cellphone market is about saturated, the smartphone market isn't. Demands on AT&T's network are just going to increase.
post #154 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I've has 2 times where I could not make a call. One was immediately after the fireworks ended on July 4th. Maybe there was a mad rush of calls - people meeting others, who knows? 3G data is where most of the problems have been - where Safari just circles and circles. But most of the time it is fine. But why should there be this inconsistency? Where I work by Boomingdales the 3G is bad. But in the East viilage it's great. Who knows?

A lot of it has to do with tower placement.

I've told this story before, but it pertains to this.

When in our first building on Broadway, between 21st and 22nd streets, I could never get or receive a cell call in the basement or on the first floor of my company, using Sprint. The second floor was pretty good except in the center of the floor. But others with Verizon could, and often, AT&T customers could as well.

But in the last two years (this was several years back), when we moved to 28th st and third, the situation was reversed. Then, I could make calls and receive them from anywhere in my company no matter which floor, or from wherever on the floor, while those from Verizon and AT&T couldn't.

The Verizon guy installing our phone systems wiring told me that Verizon and AT&T did not have transmitters near enough in the proper direction, but that Sprint did.

Go figure!
post #155 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorya View Post

That's when the government should step in to cap roaming charges, like they've just done in Europe.

Nope. It's better with national networks the way they are now. Why should there be roaming at all?

I'm not so sure I like the idea of the government making pricing decisions. I don't see things as being so much better there. In fact, from what I saw when I was there, some things are worse. The way they distribute phones, iPhones, at least, is just plain dumb!
post #156 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

What cellphone provider doesn't patch a pole every once in a while - which by your definition is an upgrade? People aren't liars or blatantly ignorant - your interpretation of an upgrade is however simpleminded.

AT&T added something like 20,000 towers in the past 12 months or so, as well as putting new transmitters on current towers. They are improving their network. The problem is that the demands on that network are increasing by the same amount.

I doubt that Sprint and Verizon are seeing the same percentage of demand increase.
post #157 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

You mean that Apple is giving customers what they want.... such as forcing customers to take data plans which cost $30+ per month which kicks back to Apple, along with the other subsidy that AT&T is extorted to give Apple?

What do you want them to do? Give you wireless data for free? Wireless infrastructure is expensive. The iPhone introduces unprecedented data usage in a widely deployed device. Sure there are aircards and wireless modems, but there are far fewer of them and their plans are more then $30 a month.

If Verizon does get a CDMA iPhone, their network will probably get crushed as well. CDMA goes farther then GSM, so Verzion has fewer towers. That also means that have that much less capacity - who knows, they may be in far worse shape then AT&T!

The core issue is American wireless carriers, in general, are woefully under prepared for widespread data use, and I think the iPhone has been a real eye opener.
post #158 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

AT&T added something like 20,000 towers in the past 12 months or so, as well as putting new transmitters on current towers. They are improving their network. The problem is that the demands on that network are increasing by the same amount.

I doubt that Sprint and Verizon are seeing the same percentage of demand increase.

I agree that AT&T must be receiving the greatest demand due to iPhones success and the plethora of low end3G phones AT&t adds monthly. What you are stating as far as the upgrade- has it been finished? If not now, when so? And more importantly where is it being done? A tower added out in Boise Idaho isn't gonna help me here. I would doubt it's been completed if this is the best they were able to accomplish- at least here in NY.
post #159 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougMcNerd View Post

Apple isn't wrecking anything. Consumers are wrecking the RIAA, MS, and AT&T. Apple is merely the tool (by virtue of providing what consumers want).

Bingo!

Also, wrecking = ending the free ride of obnoxious fee's for little value
post #160 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

AS long as the calls aren't dropped and the network is consistent- who cares?


I used to have Verizon before I got an iPhone and I thought the network was very solid, fantastic voice quality and great coverage. The voice quality was so good that people would assume I was at the office on the land line. The only calls that ever dropped were the ones where a Cingular phone was on the other end.

Once I switched to AT&T the calls did start dropping quite frequently in all kinds of situations. Coverage inside of buildings is significantly reduced, and the voice quality is really marginal.

However, I'm willing to put up with it just to have an iPhone. The phone itself is so fantastic, it makes up for the shortcomings of the network. Lately I have noticed that I get full signal in places where I used to experiecnce a weak signal so I believe that they are upgrading their capacity at least in my area of the country.

The new 3Gs is really fast and I couldn't be happier. Price of the phone or the service was not a factor for me.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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