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Verizon app store to be mandated; new BlackBerry sells well - Page 2

post #41 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I don't see how this is supposed to help just one group of wireless standards and hurt the other. Keep in mind that Verizon Wireless in the US is still CDMA-based.

It DOESN'T matter --- whether it's CDMA or GSM phone, or whether it's a LG phone (which is based on their own proprietary OS) or a RIM phone.

The only thing that matters to the software developers --- it's a billion subscribers.
post #42 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

This is part of the announcement by Verizon to set up a carrier-based API across all major cell phone platforms with the world's largest carriers with a total of a billion subscribers.

http://www.vodafone.com/start/media_...na_Mobile.html

I love the date on that press release. And after three and a half months we can see that that initiative is really setting the mobile world on fire. It's all I read about in the tech blogs...
post #43 of 71
Also, 'mobile widgets' are hardly a substitute for sophisticated applications:

Quote:
Mobile widgets are capable of boosting handset functionality as well as transforming the look and feel of a device to give customers quick and easy access to valued content. They are personalised, always-accessible mini applications that sit on a handset to retrieve relevant information from the web such as weather reports, sports updates, and travel timetables.

Likely end result: mediocre data-fetchers with conflicting UIs that will make Windows 3.1 look like a seamless user experience. See JavaPhone for details.
post #44 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow View Post

It seems that BlackBerry Tour sold better than the "iPhone killer" wannabe Pre. Some "analysts" were quick to note that Pre is in fact directly competing against BlackBerry, not iPhone. Now it seems it falls behind both.

Otherwise Verizon store is a lame idea.

I'll tell ya something. The Pre is very much competing against the iPhone, and don't let anyone tell you different.

Sprint took out full page ads in the NY Times for days, saying that now that iPhone contracts were up, people should go to the Pre instead. That's not the only place they had those ads either.

What do reviewers compare the Pre against? The iPhone.

The Pre can't even hope to compete against the BB. Certainly not in business.

We hear some people dissing the security on the iPhone. Well, it's been shown that the security for the Pre is far worse. While Apple's phone can be made pretty secure, esp. with Apple's free config. utility, the Pre is wide open. No way business will be using that if they think the iPhone isn't ready.

And RIM is more secure than either.

No, the Pre is a consumer phone and competes against the iPhone. The chairman of Elevation Partners, the money men behind Palm, made a stupid statement about that a couple of months ago that their legal department had to withdraw. Not a word about RIM. Not one!
post #45 of 71
And here again shows the crappy telecom situation in America, and why we need more competitors. I've been stuck on Verizon and waiting for the iPhone, but this new development really makes it hard to believe they'll ever find common ground with Apple.

Verizon has the best network coverage, particularly their 3G footprint in suburban and rural areas. But they also pull all kinds of shenanigans to screw customers over, and have the worst possible selection of devices. Rip-offs include disabling GPS on feature phones and then charging $10+ a month for a GPS application, reoccurring monthly "game rental" charges, disabling bluetooth/USB file transfer (have to use their service for moving photos), expensive and crappy Vcast media store.

AT&T has great devices, including the iPhone, but offers a comparatively poor network, especially in rural and suburban areas. Their 3G service is also underwhelming, with a far smaller footprint than Verizon, and over-saturation issues in larger cities.

Sprint has better devices than Verizon (and the Palm Pre!) and a decent network, especially their nation-wide 3G network, but have been hemorrhaging customers and reveneu for years after being plagued with terrible customer service, constant billing issues, etc.

T-mobile, like AT&T, has access to a lot of devices with their GSM-based network, and is the only carrier to launch an Android device. Unfortunately, they have inferior coverage and a tiny 3G footprint. Their HSPA 3G service also uses an odd-ball frequency, so most new devices not made exclusively for Tmobile will not support for the 3G network.
post #46 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlux View Post

I love the date on that press release. And after three and a half months we can see that that initiative is really setting the mobile world on fire. It's all I read about in the tech blogs...

Actually, the JIL was started much earlier --- April 2008 --- without Verizon.

http://www.reuters.com/article/press...08+RNS20080424
post #47 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

And here again shows the crappy telecom situation in America, and why we need more competitors. I've been stuck on Verizon and waiting for the iPhone, but this new development really makes it hard to believe they'll ever find common ground with Apple.

Verizon has the best network coverage, particularly their 3G footprint in suburban and rural areas. But they also pull all kinds of shenanigans to screw customers over, and have the worst possible selection of devices. Rip-offs include disabling GPS on feature phones and then charging $10+ a month for a GPS application, reoccurring monthly "game rental" charges, disabling bluetooth/USB file transfer (have to use their service for moving photos), expensive and crappy Vcast media store.

AT&T has great devices, including the iPhone, but offers a comparatively poor network, especially in rural and suburban areas. Their 3G service is also underwhelming, with a far smaller footprint than Verizon, and over-saturation issues in larger cities.

Sprint has better devices than Verizon (and the Palm Pre!) and a decent network, especially their nation-wide 3G network, but have been hemorrhaging customers and reveneu for years after being plagued with terrible customer service, constant billing issues, etc.

T-mobile, like AT&T, has access to a lot of devices with their GSM-based network, and is the only carrier to launch an Android device. Unfortunately, they have inferior coverage and a tiny 3G footprint. Their HSPA 3G service also uses an odd-ball frequency, so most new devices not made exclusively for Tmobile will not support for the 3G network.

While we could quibble about details, I'd say that that was about right.
post #48 of 71
Main reason why Verizon ****. They want full control of the phone, cripple standard features, and then make you pay for it. Now do you really want a Verizon iPhone?

EDIT: language
post #49 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Actually, the JIL was started much earlier --- April 2008 --- without Verizon.

http://www.reuters.com/article/press...08+RNS20080424

So I stand corrected. And after fourteen and a half months we can see that that initiative is really setting the mobile world on fire.
post #50 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I'll tell ya something. The Pre is very much competing against the iPhone, and don't let anyone tell you different.

And interestingly, I read an article yesterday, in one of the blogs the NYTimes links to, I think, that Pre owners, like G1 owners before them, are clamoring for a virtual keyboard: the physical keyboard is apparently "inconvenient" to use. So, it seems that one of the 2 features touted as the main advantages of the Pre (the other being, obviously, the battery draining multitasking) is actually annoying a lot of users. Not really surprising, since the only way a physical keyboard will ever be "convenient" is if you have a postage stamp sized screen that's only useful for email and messaging.

I'm waiting for Apple to release a wireless desktop keyboard that is actually a touch screen with virtual keyboard(s). Perhaps once they get the haptic feedback thing sorted out. Oh, and Apple, if you're listening, make the thing waterproof so we can enjoy our coffee while reading xkcd, and Verizon press releases, in the morning.
post #51 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

And here again shows the crappy telecom situation in America, and why we need more competitors. I've been stuck on Verizon and waiting for the iPhone...
Verizon has the best network coverage, particularly their 3G footprint in suburban and rural areas. But they also pull all kinds of shenanigans to screw customers over...

When it comes to phone service, coverage reigns supreme. As much as I loathe Verizon's business practices, I use them for my carrier, because they give me the best chance of being able to place a call wherever I am in the US. With the other carriers, there are places I frequently visit (including my parents' home, in a rural part of the country) where nobody else has a signal at all, let alone a good one.

I think a lot of people come to this same conclusion, which is why VZW is the biggest in this country. Do I want nicer phones and the ability to move pictures and music to/from my phone without paying VZW network fees? Absolutely. But I'm not going to cripple my ability to make calls in order to get them.

So, I keep a separate PDA and camera with me and use the phone for nothing but making calls. At least this way, I don't have to actually pay for the phone (since the basic models that do little more than place calls cost nothing after rebates and subsidized discounts.)
post #52 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

It DOESN'T matter --- whether it's CDMA or GSM phone, or whether it's a LG phone (which is based on their own proprietary OS) or a RIM phone.

The only thing that matters to the software developers --- it's a billion subscribers.

What does the wireless standard have to do with software development? If you make an app for a RIM phone it doesn't care whether RIM has made the phone for CDMA or GSM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

And here again shows the crappy telecom situation in America, and why we need more competitors. I've been stuck on Verizon and waiting for the iPhone, but this new development really makes it hard to believe they'll ever find common ground with Apple.

Verizon has the best network coverage, particularly their 3G footprint in suburban and rural areas. But they also pull all kinds of shenanigans to screw customers over, and have the worst possible selection of devices. Rip-offs include disabling GPS on feature phones and then charging $10+ a month for a GPS application, reoccurring monthly "game rental" charges, disabling bluetooth/USB file transfer (have to use their service for moving photos), expensive and crappy Vcast media store.

AT&T has great devices, including the iPhone, but offers a comparatively poor network, especially in rural and suburban areas. Their 3G service is also underwhelming, with a far smaller footprint than Verizon, and over-saturation issues in larger cities.

Sprint has better devices than Verizon (and the Palm Pre!) and a decent network, especially their nation-wide 3G network, but have been hemorrhaging customers and reveneu for years after being plagued with terrible customer service, constant billing issues, etc.

T-mobile, like AT&T, has access to a lot of devices with their GSM-based network, and is the only carrier to launch an Android device. Unfortunately, they have inferior coverage and a tiny 3G footprint. Their HSPA 3G service also uses an odd-ball frequency, so most new devices not made exclusively for Tmobile will not support for the 3G network.

A couple clarifications and corrections, especially with Verizon. Verizon has mandated all smartphones have wifi by 2010. They've unlocked the previously blocked GPS on at least two smartphones that I know of. They were evil bastards in early bluetooth days, but anyone repeating this now is just uninformed.

On my LG Dare, I can easily transfer over photos, songs, and videos. The other day I transferred over 500+ half meg photos just by selecting and dragging. Firmware updates unlocked this ability even on my old Moto V3m.

AT&T has the same "rip offs" as Verizon. I say this as someone who priced a family plan with them no less than a week ago. They charge the same $10 a month for their GPS app. They charge fees to add data, way to much for messaging, you name it. It was $10 this and $10 that all within the plan.

Sprint has the best pricing so far and while hemorrhaging customers, almost completely stopped that loss last quarter. I suspect next quarter will show a gain for them.

T-mobile to me is just a company getting by doing nothing exceptional.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

While we could quibble about details, I'd say that that was about right.

I'd say that was profoundly outdated.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #53 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post



I'd say that was profoundly outdated.

I don't think so. Some things have changed a bit, but overall, it's about right.
post #54 of 71
Yes! It is starting to seem more less likely that Verizon and Apple could agree on a Iphone, and beside who in their right mind would want a IPhone with a verizon store instead of a APP store that normally is around for IPhone users now.
post #55 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I don't think so. Some things have changed a bit, but overall, it's about right.

Really, so I just imagined that I transferred a half gig movie to my LG Dare last night using bluetooth?

I imagined the firmware updates that opened up the GPS on two different smartphone models.

I just imagined that all the games I have available either to rent or to own and conflating the two is just malice in place of reasoning.

Also Verizon has plenty of great phones. The Feds wouldn't be after them to reduce their exclusivity period for a bunch of crap phones. Sure they don't have the iPhone but they certainly have plenty of decent phones.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #56 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by xplics View Post

Yes! It is starting to seem more less likely that Verizon and Apple could agree on a Iphone, and beside who in their right mind would want a IPhone with a verizon store instead of a APP store that normally is around for IPhone users now.

Except that people seem to not have noticed, even though some of us have brought it up, that Verizon said that companies could maintain their own stores.

What we don't know, is whether they would HAVE to be a part of Verizon's as well. That wasn't stated.

Yes, people can make guesses about that, but all they will be is guesses, and of no value.
post #57 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Really, so I just imagined that I transferred a half gig movie to my LG Dare last night using bluetooth?

I imagined the firmware updates that opened up the GPS on two different smartphone models.

I just imagined that all the games I have available either to rent or to own and conflating the two is just malice in place of reasoning.

Also Verizon has plenty of great phones. The Feds wouldn't be after them to reduce their exclusivity period for a bunch of crap phones. Sure they don't have the iPhone but they certainly have plenty of decent phones.

I said that things have changed some, but what was said is basically still correct. Especially when comparing the relative positions of the firms. So Verizon has moved a bit, others have moved more.

They just did say that they would limit exclusivity to 6 months, if I read it correctly, if so, that is a change.
post #58 of 71
Verizon has softened it's stance on some of it's policies. But there is still a large gap from where they need to be to get the iPhone.

Would Verizon allow Google Maps and iTunes compete directly with VZ Navigator and V Cast? Not very likely.

Apple will definitely not ship an iPhone with Verizon's app store or allow Verizon to charge for visual voicemail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Really, so I just imagined that I transferred a half gig movie to my LG Dare last night using bluetooth? I imagined the firmware updates that opened up the GPS on two different smartphone models. I just imagined that all the games I have available either to rent or to own and conflating the two is just malice in place of reasoning.
post #59 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Verizon has softened it's stance on some of it's policies. But there is still a large gap from where they need to be to get the iPhone.

Would Verizon allow Google Maps and iTunes compete directly with VZ Navigator and V Cast? Not very likely.

Apple will definitely not ship an iPhone with Verizon's app store or allow Verizon to charge for visual voicemail.

Why not? It's not as though that VZ Navigator is the only nav app on GIN --- Verizon already sells a competitor's product (AAA Mobile Navigator) on their GIN store.
post #60 of 71
What phones does Verizon allow to ship with a free navigation software, or ship with third party media distribution software?

Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Why not? It's not as though that VZ Navigator is the only nav app on GIN --- Verizon already sells a competitor's product (AAA Mobile Navigator) on their GIN store.
post #61 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I said that things have changed some, but what was said is basically still correct. Especially when comparing the relative positions of the firms. So Verizon has moved a bit, others have moved more.

They just did say that they would limit exclusivity to 6 months, if I read it correctly, if so, that is a change.

My Dare is over a year old and has bluetooth file transfer. My V3m is well over three years old and has bluetooth transfer. I'd say the change regarding bluetooth is already over two years old.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Verizon has softened it's stance on some of it's policies. But there is still a large gap from where they need to be to get the iPhone.

Would Verizon allow Google Maps and iTunes compete directly with VZ Navigator and V Cast? Not very likely.

Apple will definitely not ship an iPhone with Verizon's app store or allow Verizon to charge for visual voicemail.

They allow such things already on smartphones. Storm has had Google Maps since February of this year as an example. Plenty of smartphones already ship with players other than VCast. I have no idea where you are getting that from.

You are right that Apple would not like a competing store on the iPhone but that shows a lack of Apple openness and not Verizon's. As an iPhone owner I very much appreciated Cydia making available to me features which Apple wants to use to force me to purchase a new phone. I very much appreciate Cycorder, ActivateMMS, and finally netatalk for giving my phone features it should have from Apple.

Speaking in the same terms though, there are plenty of Verizon folks who had hacks open access to their GPS chips for example.

Finally Verizon could simply do what AT&T does and include it in the cost of the data plan which is already cheaper than just the data plan on AT&T for all the "feature phones" Verizon offers VVM on.

Perhaps the Verizon version would even get your messages to you on time.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

What phones does Verizon allow to ship with a free navigation software, or ship with third party media distribution software?

Why do you keep intentionally conflating smart and non-smart phones Teno? Have you gone into a Verizon store and used the smartphones? Did Verizon suddenly replace RIM' email servers and phone programs with ones of their own choosing?

Of course Verizon creates and keeps a wide array of standardized programs for all their dumb or feature phones. I've never seen this to be the case with the smartphones though.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #62 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

What phones does Verizon allow to ship with a free navigation software, or ship with third party media distribution software?

The concern should be the other way around.

The reality is that Apple denied apps to the app store because those 3rd party apps have "duplicative" features (i.e. podcasting) that competes with itunes.
post #63 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

The concern should be the other way around.

The reality is that Apple denied apps to the app store because those 3rd party apps have "duplicative" features (i.e. podcasting) that competes with itunes.

iTunes is the infrastructure for licensed copyright materials from the music/video industry. Apple signed an agreement protecting their choices.

Take it up with them.
post #64 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

They allow such things already on smartphones. Storm has had Google Maps since February of this year as an example. Plenty of smartphones already ship with players other than VCast. I have no idea where you are getting that from.

I know people with the Storm and none of them have Google Maps. What other media service ships with Verizon phones?

Quote:
You are right that Apple would not like a competing store on the iPhone but that shows a lack of Apple openness and not Verizon's.

They both want equal control in this matter.

Quote:
Finally Verizon could simply do what AT&T does and include it in the cost of the data plan which is already cheaper than just the data plan on AT&T for all the "feature phones" Verizon offers VVM on.

Verizon's smartphone unlimited data plan is $50. Plus $5 for visual voicemail.

Quote:
Why do you keep intentionally conflating smart and non-smart phones Teno? Have you gone into a Verizon store and used the smartphones? Did Verizon suddenly replace RIM' email servers and phone programs with ones of their own choosing?

I'm not sure what you are talking about here. What if you don't have a Blackberry.
post #65 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


You are right that Apple would not like a competing store on the iPhone but that shows a lack of Apple openness and not Verizon's. As an iPhone owner I very much appreciated Cydia making available to me features which Apple wants to use to force me to purchase a new phone. I very much appreciate Cycorder, ActivateMMS, and finally netatalk for giving my phone features it should have from Apple.

It's not so simple. I don't see Apple wanting the store to make big bucks from. The store was the ideal way Apple thought things should be done. How would a store from Verizon work? What rules would be in place? Would they conflict with Apple's? would the same apps be sold? Etc.

The App Store is a service to their customers that gives them an easy way to get what they need, and insure compliance with the contracts Apple has with their carriers.

This is similar to what China Mobile was reported to want, control of the App Store.

I can't see a useful purpose having one under the control of Verizon. And, how would that work with the other phone manufacturers? Would this just be a part of that? It's not clear.

Quote:
Speaking in the same terms though, there are plenty of Verizon folks who had hacks open access to their GPS chips for example.

Hacking doesn't count. That's not a service the company offers.
post #66 of 71
I only know of one app that was denied for this reason, but I agree it is not a good policy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

The concern should be the other way around.

The reality is that Apple denied apps to the app store because those 3rd party apps have "duplicative" features (i.e. podcasting) that competes with itunes.
post #67 of 71
The Blackberry will not sell that many after 2 weeks. I give you my words on that.
post #68 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

What phones does Verizon allow to ship with a free navigation software, or ship with third party media distribution software?

Pre I guess.
post #69 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGSStateStudent View Post

Pre I guess.

We don't know, because they don't have the phone yet.
post #70 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

The concern should be the other way around.

The reality is that Apple denied apps to the app store because those 3rd party apps have "duplicative" features (i.e. podcasting) that competes with itunes.

+1. I agree with you completely.
post #71 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

We don't know, because they don't have the phone yet.

Yeah. They are slow.
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