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Steve Ballmer laughs off Google's Chrome OS threat - Page 3

post #81 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

I don't think the failure of Linux netbooks is about the apps. Chrome OS is theoretically going to support x86 apps anyway, but even if it didn't and only supported online apps that opened and saved Office files it would be the same thing for the user.

It's always about the apps. That's the reason most given as to why Mac adoption hasn't been higher. It's not really the price of the machines.

Chrome will theoretically do a lot of things. Theoretically!

But no one has seen Chrome yet. So far it's vaporware. Even Google won't discuss details. I'm not so sure they even know what it will be if it comes out.

With at least a year before we see what might charitably be called a beta, we can't even speak to how well it will work.

Quote:
The problem with Linux is it's a confusing mess. It's the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. I am in IT and do a lot of techie things. I have in the past been a Windows expert and now I'm a full-time Mac expert but I find Linux to be confusing annoying crap in terms of the UI and actually getting anything done.

The Linux guys (some are friends of mine), will say that it's not that hard and it really isn't if you spend the time to learn it. But the problem is the user just wants to get their email. They don't want to learn how to manage their hardware and software and they don't want to spend all day configuring tricky little things.

It was interesting when computers first came out to get into all the little details and build your own etc. I did it myself for years. But today, people want a computer that they can turn on and use. Like a TV. This evolution has happened with every significant consumer product of the last century. Cars, Radios, TVs etc.

No one wants to (nor should they need to) look at configuration files all day long when they really just want to send an email or look at a video clip.

I play with various distro's of Linux from time to time, going way back to the beginning. Quite frankly, I've never been impressed.

They understand quite well that in order to be recognized by those they want to get to use it, that it has to look and feel somewhat familiar. So they copied the Windows look and feel.

So it's clunky, and about two to three versions behind GUIwise, because these guys are always fighting about what to do and how to do it.

That's one reason why Linux will always be the problem child of the OS's. There are an awful lot of big ego's in Linuxland, and they don't agree on most things.

But because of the desire to make it look like Windows they pass up the chance to really create something new and different that they can point to and say; "It's better."

The worst is Torvald himself. The guy has a really big mouth, and has been holding it back for years. His opposition to the ver 3.0 kernel has caused no end of problems, and his opposition to changing the license has caused more.

It's also a joke about the fight between KDE and Ubuntu. Both have together, about a 60% share of the non-business distro environment. The rest consists of, what, 100 or so smaller distro's?

Without a unified Linux based OS, this will never go anywhere.

But thats the one idea that Linux people hate more than anything else, so it's not likely to happen.

Another problem is licensing. Most are totally against that idea of licensing formats. So we get few things that will run on Linux, shrinking their universe even more when compared to the rich ecologies of both OS X and Windows.

The only advantages to Linux for those who use it is that it's cheap, and they can make it act however they want.

But that's just for the geeks. No one else cares about that. I love it when some people write that they've got it working for their grandmas. They don't tell us that (assuming it's true at all) all grandma is using is a browser.

This is addition to all the problems you brought up.
post #82 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post

It's interesting how much of a push MS is making with Azure on one side, and poo-pooing Chrome OS on the other. To be honest, I think Apple has the most to lose with cloud computing pushing closer to mainstream. MS is trying to undercut Amazon's prices, which should suggest that they take the market very seriously.

I wonder how long it will take MS to create a browser based OS themselves...

I have no clue but perhaps the new Apple investment in the Carolinas is related to a plan for cloud computing for Mac users?
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post #83 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by xwiredtva View Post

Throw in VisiCalc (which was released with the source code) and we have a winner!

VisiCalc was (IIRC) the first spreadsheet program to gain large amounts of traction, but I don't think Microsoft ever bought it. Shortly after it came out, MS had a competing product called MultiPlan, which was released on the competing platforms of the day (Apple II, DOS, C-64, CP/M, etc.). Now, on the Windows side, I can't remember if Microsoft bought Excel from another company, but certainly many of the more modern ideas in it were lifted from a product called Wingz, which was published by Informix. Besides doing a lot of things, like graphing, much better than the then-current incarnation of Excel, it was also available on UNIX platforms, which made it a very compelling solution in engineering and educational environments.
post #84 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

The raging lunatic of ballzer goes too far many times. It wouldn't surprise me if he killed his wife and kids and set fire to himself if chrome succeeds.

Based on what I have seen of Ballmer's temperament, I could see him killing his wife and kids. But he wouldn't set fire to himself. He would set fire to one of his underlings.

Too much of a megalomaniac to do any serious damage to himself.
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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post #85 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Actually, the Xbox is now working out very well. If you look at their last quarterly results, the entertainment division with the Xbox bolstered their bottom line nicely.

Their recent quarterly loss (what was it, first in like 20 years?) would have been much worse without the Xbox. Quite a role reversal...

If you count the $1.3 billion MS had to put aside for the unexpected warrantee costs, which is thought to be too little, long term, those results are reversed.

MS didn't have a quarterly loss. They just made a billion or so less profit, so it was down to what, $7 billion for the quarter?
post #86 of 143
Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. - Santayana

The entire Microsoft organization would do well to study the example of General Motors.

Those who place all the blame on Ballmer are being myopic. He expresses views that must be widely shared throughout the Microsoft culture. It's a culture that has grown fat, dumb and happy on the widespread adoption of what history will judge as a second-rate operating system - bloated yet eternally vulnerable to intrusion and vandalism. What will they do when consumer frustration and indifference overtakes their introduction of new products that incorporate all of the old, systematic flaws?

What will ultimately happen is that consumers will turn to products that offer true value - consistent performance, simplicity, reliability and durability. It's what happened in the global automotive marketplace and led to the fall of two giant American automakers.

Microsoft people better quit gorging on the nectar and look out for what's coming up from the rear to sting them to death. They need to be frightened - very frightened.

I admit to being a Fanatical Moderate. I Disdain the Inane. Vyizderzominymororzizazizdenderizorziz?

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I admit to being a Fanatical Moderate. I Disdain the Inane. Vyizderzominymororzizazizdenderizorziz?

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post #87 of 143
Mr Ballmer a suggestion you might consider. Compliments my driving instructor slightly modified though.

"Please ensure to start Brain before putting Mouth into gear"
post #88 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by talksense101 View Post

Linux can already do this. There are plenty of distros which run off a live CD without installing anything on your disk. There are also versions that run under Windows to give you a look and feel.

Prejudices and habits die hard. Microsoft is not in the primary business of selling computers or browsers. Silverlight is their vision of what should be done on the web.

I never said it failed due to technical limitations, it's a public perception problem. There is just no way for that perception to change until someone takes Linux under PR umbrella of a big name corporation. That was my point, that Google might just have enough clout with the general public to actually make a name for an alternative OS, where as Linux has remained fairly divided & scattered.

Ubuntu has made many leaps & bounds in this area, but how many people if you asked would really know who Canonical is.
post #89 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtotes View Post

I think OS X will probably suffer more to Chrome OS than MS will. People will still be force fed MS at work but at home they can by a cheap PC with Chrome OS with Google goodness integrated or splash out more for a MS PC or even more for a Mac. Most consumers want value rather than the best.

I think they will suffer no more to Chrome OS than iPhone suffered to Android. The game changer is who Google plans to go after, & since it is netbooks then that is a market Apple isn't competing in anyway.
post #90 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by macdanboy View Post

He's laughing because he know just like he can't buy out Apple, he can't buy out Google and end the threat of the competition. Microsoft is to busy trying to fix Vista and figure out how they can milk Office 2009/2010/2011.

I sure wish Apple would put more money and time into iWork. Have iwork lite for the consumer maybe and a pro version for industry. Maybe even write it cross platform. My Office X is growing hair.
post #91 of 143
You just know all the chairs on the Microsoft campus are running for cover.
post #92 of 143
You know, I have to wonder how long this sort of ignore and chase behavior the board of directors for MS will allow this to go on. Balmer may think he's in charge - but there is that pesky board to report to.
post #93 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Fred 1 View Post

I sure wish Apple would put more money and time into iWork. Have iwork lite for the consumer maybe and a pro version for industry. Maybe even write it cross platform. My Office X is growing hair.

Agreed. All iApps (iLife and iWork) need Pro counterparts as for example we have now with iMovie / FCPro . I'd love a Pro version of iWeb for example.
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post #94 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibgarrett View Post

You know, I have to wonder how long this sort of ignore and chase behavior the board of directors for MS will allow this to go on. Balmer may think he's in charge - but there is that pesky board to report to.

With Gates the largest stockholder, and Ballmer the second largest, with both owning considerable chunks of stock, is the board really going to intimidate him? I don't think so. His blunder would have to be so outrageous that they would have no choice so that it would be politically viable.
post #95 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Lets look at Star Office from Sun. Completely compatible with Office, and far cheaper. It's free alternative, OpenOffice is also available.

Both are more than viable, they're complete replacements, one is free.

But how much marketshare have they taken? Almost 0%. Why? Because they're really NOT viable, because people don't want them. They want the real thing, even if it costs far more. And if not that, then they can get Student/Teacher edition for much less.

I'm a high school teacher, and the technology coordinator at my school... Of the few hundred students I've interviewed about their technology usage, fewer than 1% use a legally-licensed version of Microsoft Office on their home computers.

If they have access to a bootleg / pirated / otherwise free copy of Office, they'll install and use that. If not, they'll use OpenOffice (as of April, about 3%).

Sure, that's just young people, who don't have a lot of money, and a very small sample size, at that-- but I wouldn't be at all surprised if these students are characteristic of the next 2-3 years of trend...
post #96 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpklock View Post

I'm a high school teacher, and the technology coordinator at my school... Of the few hundred students I've interviewed about their technology usage, fewer than 1% use a legally-licensed version of Microsoft Office on their home computers.

If they have access to a bootleg / pirated / otherwise free copy of Office, they'll install and use that. If not, they'll use OpenOffice (as of April, about 3%).

Sure, that's just young people, who don't have a lot of money, and a very small sample size, at that-- but I wouldn't be at all surprised if these students are characteristic of the next 2-3 years of trend...

Unfortunately, they are. And many companies give their employees copies to use at home.

Over the years, people coming to my home would use my Mac for a while, and would tell me that they would switch, buying the Mac wasn't a deal breaker even though it was more expensivebut I would have to give them the software. I declined.

These days, many of those same people do have Macs, and bought their own software.

The desirability quotient went up for them.
post #97 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Lot's of people know it exists. For example, most people here know it exists for the Mac as well. For a while, it's even been as a native OS X app. How many use it as opposed to iWork or Office? Almost none.

Business knows these apps exist. Much software used at home is known and used because business uses it. Yet, businesses almost never do use it, so people at home don't.

Yet it's free.

As a percentage of the general populous I think a very small number of people know about opensource office apps like openoffice.org.

The real issue with openoffice is that it comes with very little prepackaged bells & whistles. MS Office & iWork come with lots of templates & the interfaces are really much more intuitive than openoffice.org.

I'm sure many of you will disagree but we're working with a populous that in large part won't use an app that takes them more than 3 steps to get going on. People want simplicity & to date opensource is still doing a lot of catchup in this area.
post #98 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by hezekiahb View Post

As a percentage of the general populous I think a very small number of people know about opensource office apps like openoffice.org.

The real issue with openoffice is that it comes with very little prepackaged bells & whistles. MS Office & iWork come with lots of templates & the interfaces are really much more intuitive than openoffice.org.

I'm sure many of you will disagree but we're working with a populous that in large part won't use an app that takes them more than 3 steps to get going on. People want simplicity & to date opensource is still doing a lot of catchup in this area.

Student/Teacher lacks most of the extras, that's why it's so much cheaper.

My point was that people use what they use at work. This isn't used at work.

But, here, and on most other online forums, people do know about it, and yet, almost none use it. That says a lot, as most people coming to all these forums like to consider themselves a savvy lot. If they aren't using it, then what hope is there?
post #99 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You're giving too much credit to consumers.

Most consumers use Windows and its associated software because they use it at work, and are familiar with it, in addition to the fact that they can often get it free from their employer.

That's almost the only reason other than the fact that PC's are made at cheaper levels.

When I did much work for the school system in past years, parents were almost violent against having Macs in school because they used PC's at work. They tried to insist that their kids needed to use PC's in school, even elementary school, so that they would be able to use them at work when they got older. That diminished greatly over the past few years as Mac sales have prospered and have shown up at work as well.

There is no interest in using Linux in schools, or, for the most part, in business. Linux desktop use has hovered from below 1% to about 1% and back in the US for years now, while the Mac has grown considerably. I know that Linux users like to think differently, but as far as OS's on the internet goes, Linux is still around 1%.

Almost everyone has heard about Linux, but as soon as they buy a computer with Linux on it, such as netbooks, which should be the easiest way to get on Linux because netbooks have the least computing demands, what do they do? They return the machines.

Many of these machines already have had OpenOffice installed, along with other open source software that is perfectly usable. But they want their own apps, and they can't have them. So, back to the store.

It's been mentioned that it's driver problems. Well, that's just another nail in the coffin.

This is about as much a closed environment as you could ever hope to get for a Linux foothold, but it didn't work.

I read articles in OSnews about how Linux netbooks were going to be the gateway to the consumers heart, and lead to the big breakthrough that Linux people have been predicting for almost a decade now.

But it was a major flop. Now there are some articles about what went wrong.

It's simple, you can't force an OS, or software, on people who don't want it.

Most people want Windows and its software. An increasing number want OS X and its software.

It's also interesting that over the past few years, and increasingly so after the Intel move by Apple, that some of the best known writers on the Linux scene publicly moved to OS X.

I really don't see Chrome, which won't be out for at least a year as being any different. And we all know Google. Will this ever get out of beta?

Again, no big name behind the OS like Chrome will have. Not only that but the netbook Linux distros weren't uniform, they were all customized & the included e-mail/office apps were all pulled together as is from opensource.

Google on the other hand has a very nice & clean looking set of online office apps that should work great for most users (they are much cleaner & easier to use than MS Office). If they can solve the issues like lack of quicktime or iTunes support then they will be off to a good start. Then again who knows, for all we know Apple may secretly develop a version of iTunes/Quicktime for Chrome OS, I wouldn't be totally shocked or surprised.
post #100 of 143
He is in need of an afternoon of Electro-Shock Treatment. Then maybe he'll come out of the coma he's been in for years..
post #101 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Really? What's the motivation for me to run a netbook limited to just web apps (even if they are from Google) when for maybe $50 more (if that even) I can have Windows and "have it all"?

Has no one learned anything from the iPhone and the Appstore? It's all about the Apps! Why do you think people want Windows on netbooks?

If anything, I could see Apple extending the Appstore into the netbook space and being far more successful then Google doing anything but unleashing yet another beta product.

How many people are on Hotmail vs. Gmail? People aren't going to run to Google just because of their name. That's about as stupid as the people that like to claim Apples products are doing well strictly because of superficial marketing - what a load of crap!

Really, let's get some perspective here

Uh, love my Mac but I do think a lot of their success has been around the ability to really market their product.

That anyone blows off marketing so easily shows me they don't understand much about what really drives business.

Much of Apple's success has actually been the result of younger people adopting the product & then by virtue of seeing their kids use it Parents begin getting interested.

Yes people care about apps but the only real clout windows machines had over younger generations was gaming, & that ain't gonna happen on a netbook my friend. Because of their price many families are getting netbooks as their kids first computer. I'm not saying it will happen overnight but I think people just blowing off the opportunity Google has here are going to be sorry in the end. Look how people mocked the iPhone, saying it was too late to the game.

I for one don't really care much what the projected odds are, I just want to see some serious shake up in the PC industry, it's been stagnant for so long. Just looking at an Apple TiBook will help you realize how many years behind the PC industry was for so many years.
post #102 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Agreed. All iApps (iLife and iWork) need Pro counterparts as for example we have now with iMovie / FCPro . I'd love a Pro version of iWeb for example.

It's a shame really. It's the perfect opportunity because they could offer it at a discount for Mac users (current pricing), offer it at competitive pricing for Windows (match MS Office & best it by 10% or something) Don't want to pay for a $130 for MS Office? How about iWork for $120! Whatcha gonna do now Baalllmerrrr!!!

Ok, maybe a bit overly dramatic.
post #103 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by hezekiahb View Post

It's a shame really. It's the perfect opportunity because they could offer it at a discount for Mac users (current pricing), offer it at competitive pricing for Windows (match MS Office & best it by 10% or something) Don't want to pay for a $130 for MS Office? How about iWork for $120! Whatcha gonna do now Baalllmerrrr!!!

Ok, maybe a bit overly dramatic.

Haha, I'm an idiot! Office (Student/Teacher) for windows is $150!
post #104 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by iansilv View Post

Sergey Brin should just kick his ass. Just walk up to him, and be straight up, "What you sayin' 'bout Chrome OS ****?!? I already heard!" and drop him. Pow- one hit- Sergey's fist- his face- his face- the floor.

Then Sergey be like, "Do no evil? **** And then he rollerblade on out of there.

That is an extremely unlikely string of events, but I do have to admit I would digg it.

EDIT: language

Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

I know this was probably just a joke, but I don't find it funny.

People who do this kind of stuff are the cause of most of the worlds problems. The sooner this kind of "in your face" stuff is bred out of the gene pool the better of we will all be.

... Are you serious? I figured people would know it was a joke at about the word ass, right after they read Sergey Brin should kick his. It was a stupid joke. A lame attempt at humor- and you see, the humor is based on the ridiculous nature of the situation.

You can dissect a joke like an animal, but the thing dies in the process...
post #105 of 143
Well what's he supposed to say, really?
post #106 of 143
He's just a cocky bland individual, IMHO!

I don't want to sound like a blinded apple fan but please............
this guy is such a lifeless no panache individual that clearly reflects Microsoft culture.

well that sounded kind of fanatic but you get my drift i hope,

cheers,
Charles
post #107 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by hezekiahb View Post

Again, no big name behind the OS like Chrome will have. Not only that but the netbook Linux distros weren't uniform, they were all customized & the included e-mail/office apps were all pulled together as is from opensource.

Google on the other hand has a very nice & clean looking set of online office apps that should work great for most users (they are much cleaner & easier to use than MS Office). If they can solve the issues like lack of quicktime or iTunes support then they will be off to a good start. Then again who knows, for all we know Apple may secretly develop a version of iTunes/Quicktime for Chrome OS, I wouldn't be totally shocked or surprised.

I still think this is wishful thinking.

We don't know much about Chrome yet, and people are saying it's going to make a big difference.

Maybe it will, but I don't see how right now.

Online apps are not useful much of the time. If those apps could reside on the machine, they'd be more useful.

Ir will take years before Chrome has got enough stuff to be more that an interesting sideline.

and again, we still have at least a year before it comes out.

A year gives both MS and Apple a big lead. And Google might change their minds. It wouldn't be the first time.
post #108 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by hezekiahb View Post

Uh, love my Mac but I do think a lot of their success has been around the ability to really market their product.

That anyone blows off marketing so easily shows me they don't understand much about what really drives business.

Much of Apple's success has actually been the result of younger people adopting the product & then by virtue of seeing their kids use it Parents begin getting interested.

Yes people care about apps but the only real clout windows machines had over younger generations was gaming, & that ain't gonna happen on a netbook my friend. Because of their price many families are getting netbooks as their kids first computer. I'm not saying it will happen overnight but I think people just blowing off the opportunity Google has here are going to be sorry in the end. Look how people mocked the iPhone, saying it was too late to the game.

I for one don't really care much what the projected odds are, I just want to see some serious shake up in the PC industry, it's been stagnant for so long. Just looking at an Apple TiBook will help you realize how many years behind the PC industry was for so many years.

It's much more than marketing, though coming from that background, I agree that it's important.

But you have to have a solid product behind the marketing.

Look at Vista. $300 million in marketing, according to MS. The Zune, $150 million in marketing. $100 million for their internet search.

Need I go on?
post #109 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot9201 View Post

He is in need of an afternoon of Electro-Shock Treatment. Then maybe he'll come out of the coma he's been in for years..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibgarrett View Post

You know, I have to wonder how long this sort of ignore and chase behavior the board of directors for MS will allow this to go on. Balmer may think he's in charge - but there is that pesky board to report to.


my thoughts exactly....lol!
post #110 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

Based on what I have seen of Ballmer's temperament, I could see him killing his wife and kids. But he wouldn't set fire to himself. He would set fire to one of his underlings.

Too much of a megalomaniac to do any serious damage to himself.



post #111 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by iansilv View Post

... Are you serious? I figured people would know it was a joke at about the word ass, right after they read Sergey Brin should kick his. It was a stupid joke. A lame attempt at humor- and you see, the humor is based on the ridiculous nature of the situation.

You can dissect a joke like an animal, but the thing dies in the process...

The joke's ok, though a bit over the top, but watch the language in the future please.
post #112 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by mklos View Post

Maybe this will be a great OS and maybe it won't but, IMO...this is the problem with Microsoft. They think they're on top of the world and nothing can beat them. This is exactly how people/companies fail! They keep progressing slowly, doing just enough to say they did something while others are advancing their technologies significantly. It seems like he would eventually learn that Microsoft should be innovating...not sitting back and watching and then trying to copy what works. This eventually will bite them in the ass. It kind of already did with Windows Vista.

Someday maybe Microsoft investors will can his ass. As much as we all like to pick on Microsoft it would be nice to actually see them innovate now and then.


I couldn't agree more,
post #113 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's much more than marketing, though coming from that background, I agree that it's important.

But you have to have a solid product behind the marketing.

Look at Vista. $300 million in marketing, according to MS. The Zune, $150 million in marketing. $100 million for their internet search.

Need I go on?

Look, it is a little wishful & yes the product can't absolutely stink & still succeed. I'm just saying, I'm looking at & playing with the googledocs page & have been using a few of Google's other apps & they all share one commonality with Apple that I think has been a key to Apple's success. Like Apple Google has understood for a long time now that people want simplicity. What a concept to create a search page that had practically nothing but a search field! I remember how yahoo & others scoffed at it & then it became an overnight sensation because it was 3 things.

1. Clean
2. Fast
3. Effective

Maybe I'm overly confident but I believe Google can pull it off. One of the reasons they have had such a great partnership with Apple I think is because they embrace many of the same ideas regarding simplicity & elegance. The one thing that they have gained from their partnership with Apple has to learn that they also need some bling.

I do agree with many others on one thing. If Chrome OS is officially released on netbooks still with the tag "beta", then it will never get off the ground. All the skepticism aside, come on people & have a little hope! (lest we become the negative market forecasters we oh so often criticise).
post #114 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by hezekiahb View Post

Look, it is a little wishful & yes the product can't absolutely stink & still succeed. I'm just saying, I'm looking at & playing with the googledocs page & have been using a few of Google's other apps & they all share one commonality with Apple that I think has been a key to Apple's success. Like Apple Google has understood for a long time now that people want simplicity. What a concept to create a search page that had practically nothing but a search field! I remember how yahoo & others scoffed at it & then it became an overnight sensation because it was 3 things.

1. Clean
2. Fast
3. Effective

Maybe I'm overly confident but I believe Google can pull it off. One of the reasons they have had such a great partnership with Apple I think is because they embrace many of the same ideas regarding simplicity & elegance. The one thing that they have gained from their partnership with Apple has to learn that they also need some bling.

I do agree with many others on one thing. If Chrome OS is officially released on netbooks still with the tag "beta", then it will never get off the ground. All the skepticism aside, come on people & have a little hope! (lest we become the negative market forecasters we oh so often criticise).

Yes, their apps are clean. They are easy to use.

But, and this is the point I'm trying to make, is it what people want?

There isn't any evidence to show this yet. So far, cloud computing hasn't taken off. Will it take off? No one knows.

Google is making a bet, with Chrome, that it will. But they don't know either.

MS is also covering it's ***, just in case, but they also don't know.

So what I'm saying is that we have a new lightweight OS that may come out in no less than a year from now, that no one knows much about, using cloud based apps that no one knows if people will want to use.

Is this a good bet?
post #115 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by xwiredtva View Post

Their copied office suite seems to do well too. 5 points to anyone who can name where all 5 legs of the Office suite originally came from.

From Wikipedia (more info is available on each application):

PowerPoint was initially developed in 1984 by Forethought, Inc., Sunnyvale, California, for the Macintosh computer. In 1987, Forethought was bought by Microsoft and became Microsoft's Graphics Business Unit, which continued to further develop the software.

Concepts and ideas of Word were brought from Bravo, the original GUI word processor developed at Xerox PARC.[4][5] On February 1, 1983, development on what was originally named Multi-Tool Word began. Richard Brodie renamed it Microsoft Word, and Microsoft released the program October 25, 1983, for the IBM PC.

Microsoft originally marketed a spreadsheet program called Multiplan in 1982, which became very popular on CP/M systems, but on MS-DOS systems it lost popularity to Lotus 1-2-3. Microsoft released the first version of Excel for the Mac in 1985, and the first Windows version (numbered 2.05 to line up with the Mac and bundled with a run-time Windows environment) in November 1987. Lotus was slow to bring 1-2-3 to Windows and by 1988 Excel had started to outsell 1-2-3 and helped Microsoft achieve the position of leading PC software developer.

Access version 1.0 was released in November 1992, quickly followed in May 1993 by an Access 1.1 release to improve compatibility with other Microsoft products and include the Access Basic programming language. With Office 95, Microsoft Access 95 became part of the Microsoft Office Professional Suite joining Microsoft Excel, Word, and PowerPoint and transitioning from Access Basic to Visual Basic for Applications (VBA).

Microsoft Schedule Plus (or Microsoft Schedule+, 1992) was a time-management software product by Microsoft, but was discontinued as part of Office when most of its functionality was incorporated into Outlook 97. It was originally intended as a companion to Microsoft Mail, but later it was a companion to Microsoft Exchange and was part of Microsoft Office 95, and later Microsoft Exchange Client and Windows Messaging, so it was later included and developed as part of Microsoft Exchange Server, which resulted in version 7.5 of Schedule+ as part of Exchange Server 5.0. The "Outlook Calendar" that was part of Outlook for Windows 3.1 and Macintosh versions before 9.0 was actually a new version of Schedule+. In spite of being discontinued, the software, however, is still included with all versions of Microsoft Office up to Microsoft Office 2003, although it is just to support conversion from Schedule+ 1.x. It is not available in Office 2007, though was present in early test builds.

Although branded as a member of the Microsoft Office family, Microsoft Project has never been included in any of the Office suites before Office 2010 beta 1. The first version of Microsoft Kravitz was released for DOS in 1984 by a company working for Microsoft. Microsoft bought all rights to the software in 1985 and released version 2.
Blindness is a condition as well as a state of mind.

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Blindness is a condition as well as a state of mind.

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post #116 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by hezekiahb View Post

As a percentage of the general populous I think a very small number of people know about opensource office apps like openoffice.org.

The real issue with openoffice is that it comes with very little prepackaged bells & whistles. MS Office & iWork come with lots of templates & the interfaces are really much more intuitive than openoffice.org.

I'm sure many of you will disagree but we're working with a populous that in large part won't use an app that takes them more than 3 steps to get going on. People want simplicity & to date opensource is still doing a lot of catchup in this area.

I did a complete grouping of templates for OOo. It was over 144mb in size, just about 300 templates. Everyone on the forum asked for it and asked for it so I put it up on esnips. Asked to have it included as a download on the site for all to use... Is it there?

THEY know where to get the templates but most don't. Why I compiled them together and migrated each one to ODT style. I EVEN did 8 of the access templates... Rebuilt the tables, relationships, forms and reports. I think I stepped those up a notch (this was 2004 remind you) with graphics and portals.
post #117 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurtisEMayle View Post

From Wikipedia (more info is available on each application):

PowerPoint was initially developed in 1984 by Forethought, Inc., Sunnyvale, California, for the Macintosh computer. In 1987, Forethought was bought by Microsoft and became Microsoft's Graphics Business Unit, which continued to further develop the software.

Concepts and ideas of Word were brought from Bravo, the original GUI word processor developed at Xerox PARC.[4][5] On February 1, 1983, development on what was originally named Multi-Tool Word began. Richard Brodie renamed it Microsoft Word, and Microsoft released the program October 25, 1983, for the IBM PC.

Microsoft originally marketed a spreadsheet program called Multiplan in 1982, which became very popular on CP/M systems, but on MS-DOS systems it lost popularity to Lotus 1-2-3. Microsoft released the first version of Excel for the Mac in 1985, and the first Windows version (numbered 2.05 to line up with the Mac and bundled with a run-time Windows environment) in November 1987. Lotus was slow to bring 1-2-3 to Windows and by 1988 Excel had started to outsell 1-2-3 and helped Microsoft achieve the position of leading PC software developer.

Access version 1.0 was released in November 1992, quickly followed in May 1993 by an Access 1.1 release to improve compatibility with other Microsoft products and include the Access Basic programming language. With Office 95, Microsoft Access 95 became part of the Microsoft Office Professional Suite joining Microsoft Excel, Word, and PowerPoint and transitioning from Access Basic to Visual Basic for Applications (VBA).

Microsoft Schedule Plus (or Microsoft Schedule+, 1992) was a time-management software product by Microsoft, but was discontinued as part of Office when most of its functionality was incorporated into Outlook 97. It was originally intended as a companion to Microsoft Mail, but later it was a companion to Microsoft Exchange and was part of Microsoft Office 95, and later Microsoft Exchange Client and Windows Messaging, so it was later included and developed as part of Microsoft Exchange Server, which resulted in version 7.5 of Schedule+ as part of Exchange Server 5.0. The "Outlook Calendar" that was part of Outlook for Windows 3.1 and Macintosh versions before 9.0 was actually a new version of Schedule+. In spite of being discontinued, the software, however, is still included with all versions of Microsoft Office up to Microsoft Office 2003, although it is just to support conversion from Schedule+ 1.x. It is not available in Office 2007, though was present in early test builds.

Although branded as a member of the Microsoft Office family, Microsoft Project has never been included in any of the Office suites before Office 2010 beta 1. The first version of Microsoft Kravitz was released for DOS in 1984 by a company working for Microsoft. Microsoft bought all rights to the software in 1985 and released version 2.

Cheater...

Bonus point, where did Microsoft SQL come from and WHY couldn't they call it Microsoft SQL until 2003?

Deduct one point for using Wiki...
post #118 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by mklos View Post

Maybe this will be a great OS and maybe it won't but, IMO...this is the problem with Microsoft. They think they're on top of the world and nothing can beat them. This is exactly how people/companies fail! They keep progressing slowly, doing just enough to say they did something while others are advancing their technologies significantly. It seems like he would eventually learn that Microsoft should be innovating...not sitting back and watching and then trying to copy what works. This eventually will bite them in the ass. It kind of already did with Windows Vista.

Someday maybe Microsoft investors will can his ass. As much as we all like to pick on Microsoft it would be nice to actually see them innovate now and then.

Agreed... i mean come on microsoft.. im mac all the way but if you came out with a decent product i would be glad to try it. Competition is good..
post #119 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by xwiredtva View Post

Cheater...

Bonus point, where did Microsoft SQL come from and WHY couldn't they call it Microsoft SQL until 2003?

Deduct one point for using Wiki...

Though I used all the evolving apps since '80 (having access to them all as head of a university CS department), memory is best augmented with more reliable sources for info vs. opinion.

I do remember Sybase and Ashton-Tate being involved in the early SQL server, but don't recall why the naming delay as I'd long gone the Oracle route by then.
Blindness is a condition as well as a state of mind.

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Blindness is a condition as well as a state of mind.

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post #120 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Web standards take ages to finalize. Do people really think if Google wants to add a new feature to one of their web apps, and HTML5 doesn't support it, they won't just add a proprietary extension to Chrome/Chrome OS? Of course they will. In which case, if these units get too popular, Google could be the next IE/Microsoft.

You mean like Google Gears?

iPod nano 5th Gen 8GB Orange, iPad 3rd Gen WiFi 32GB White
MacBook Pro 15" Core i7 2.66GHz 8GB RAM 120GB Intel 320M
Mac mini Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz 8GB RAM, iPhone 5 32GB Black

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iPod nano 5th Gen 8GB Orange, iPad 3rd Gen WiFi 32GB White
MacBook Pro 15" Core i7 2.66GHz 8GB RAM 120GB Intel 320M
Mac mini Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz 8GB RAM, iPhone 5 32GB Black

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