Apple may extend antiglare display option to more Macs - Page 3

I've found some prices for this anti-reflective glass from a framers website to give some idea of the costs:


Note these are retail prices, not wholesale or volume purchases. For Apple I'm sure they could get it considerably cheaper.

So Apple can use anti-reflective glass, it's not cost prohibitive. They decided to use cheap reflective glass instead.




Here are a whole bunch of links of industry providers of anti-reflective glass!!

# American Computer Optics, Inc. (www.acoinc.net)
# Eyes Off (www.eyesoff.com)
# Field Optics (www.fieldoptics.com)
# Hydrophobics (www.hydrophobics.com)
# Plasma Guard (www.plasmaguard.com)
# Port Window Glass (www.portwindowglass.com)
# UV Filtering Glass (www.uvfilteringglass.com)
# Water White Glass (www.waterwhiteglass.com)


Shame on you for being so CHEAP Apple!!

They wanted a higher ennvironmental Gore rating (it use to be very poor) which they got at the expense of their long time users.

Thank you for being partly open-minded enough to make such an admission. I say partly because seems were indirectly taking a mild swipe at matte screen proponents. But it is important to keep in mind that gloss-proponents complain just as much or more than matte proponents, as evidenced by these posts:


It's not about "better." It's all about "Apple offering a choice." That holds true whether you prefer glossy screens or not.


Thank you, MacTripper, for the information on Museum glass. I've long wondered if that would be a realistic solution. If Apple ultimately refuses to offer choice, it would at least be better if they could select a non-reflective glass that could ultimately make both camps extremely happy. Just because other companies haven't been able to pull it off, doesn't mean Apple can't.

Annoy your customers with glossy displays, so they won't buy and make what matte they have now last longer.

Anti-reflective glass is most likely the best solution, nobody would know the difference between regular glass.

The reflections and glare will just disappear.

That Museum glass anti glare stuff looks promising. Wonder if Apple would entertain this idea? Suppose they would if the wholesale price was right.

It could work. One way to have the best of both worlds... easy clean glass/no glare screen.

Its true . Apple friends of mine said short term and long term fixes were on the way .

For me I love having a Glass screen . And the matte screens over time will fade is slowly fade in parts of the screen. All my matte screens are dismal compared to my new MBP glass screen.

Yet Apple will retire matte once they fixed the anti glare. Apple will retire firewire once usb 3 or 4 is out for a while . Apple is moving to be mainstream with the other 80 percent of the world. I only pray that quick time survives.

9

[QUOTE=AppleInsider;1448871]Apple made a bold move roughly two years ago to begin transitioning its entire Mac product line away from matte displays and towards glass-enclosed glossy ones, but the company may be nearing a concession that these shiny, highly-reflective screens may not be for everyone.

The Cupertino-based company is currently mulling the possibility of extending antiglare display options to more of its Macs -- a feature now only available on the 17-inch MacBook Pro -- according to people who have proven familiar with the company's plans. Though speculative at this time, it would appear that the 13- and 15-inch MacBook Pros would be the most likely candidates to receive antiglare options.

The transition towards glossy displays appears to have been sparked by the original iPhone, whose glass touchscreen and black border resonated well with customers. The reception was favorable enough that Apple, in a bid to push the envelope and standardize materials across its product families, gave similar treatment to its iMac line a few months later."

*************************************
I am posting from an original G4 Flat Panel Lamp Base iMac !!!!!!!!!

I've been saving and waiting ever since !!!!!




I have $8,000 in my iMac budget and THEY STILL DON'T GET IT !!!!!!!!


People want to watch movies in the 24" iMac !!!!!!!!!!!!

These movies often have DARK SCENES --- like NIGHT TIME and like INDOORS !!!!!!

WE CAN NOT (NOT) ENJOY THESE DRAMATIC DARK SCENES IN A

R E A R - V I E W i M a c !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WE DON'T WANT OUR FACES , LAMPS, WINDOWS, CLOCKS, ETC. REFLECTED INTO
THE DIRECTOR'S INTENDED SCENERY !!!! DO YOU GET IT ?????????? !!!!!!!!

I DO N-O-T WANT MY FACE NEXT TO MARLON BRANDO'S FACE IN THE CAVE ABODE SCENE
OF "APOCALYPSE NOW" !!!!!!!!!!!!! DO YOU GET IT YET ?????????!!!!!!!!!!

THE LAPTOP USERS ALREADY HAVE A MATTE OPTION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IT IS THE FREAKIN' 24" iMac THAT NEEDS A MATTE SCREEN !!!!!!!!!!!


THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!


THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!! THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!! THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!!
THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!! THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!! THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!!
THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!! THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!! THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!!
THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!! THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!! THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!!
THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!! THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!! THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!!
THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!! THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!! THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!!
THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!! THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!! THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!!
THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!! THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!! THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!!
THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!! THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!! THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!!
THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!! THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!! THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!!
THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!! THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!! THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!!
THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!! THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!! THE 24-INCH iMac !!!!!!

---gooddog

I'd hardly call Apple's selective deafness 'hearing the collective voice!'
it looks more like pig-headed intransigence.
The outcry over the glossy screens has been reverberating around the blogs since the gloss only idiocy was announced.
This was a really dumb move by Apple and the dumbness has been compounded by its stubborn refusal to acknowledge and correct the mistake. It lends credence to the (usually fallacious) argument that Apple puts design ahead of function style over substance.

Dude, if you've got that much, just get a Mac Pro and a third-party screen.

This is the best news I have heard from Apple in a long time, please give the 24" imac antiglare!
I have a new 2009 17" MacBook Pro and would not trade it for the world. Go to this link to see my comparison video on YouTube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY4aPbaw2YU

how about this solution.

anti-glare for an additional $50 on a laptop, $100 on an imac or cinema display. online only.

a lot of folks would go for that, the smaller stores aren't bogged down with double the stock to deal with. and from what I understand when I needed to change some bits on a recent order. if you place the order off a computer at an apple store, that store still gets credit for making the sale. so they aren't put out the dollars.

seems to me to be a win/win (outside of the few extra days but if you know it going on)


because they feel it in their best interests (in terms of servicing as well as dealing with parts suppliers) to restrict the options.

otherwise, why not just restart the clone program


who says they didn't. there was a time when they had the matte option avail in stores, for the same price on the 15 and 17. since we don't have access to the sales figures we can't say how they lined up. but it is possible that not that many anti-glare sold, particularly on the 15. thus Apple would have no reason to believe they needed the option on said model or any others.

yes they might be wrong., but based on what they had, it could have been a solid judgment. we really can't say

I never understood Apple's logic on ignoring the design community to forgo matte screen. The day Apple bring back matte screen option will be the day I purchase another Mac...which is at least 3-yrs since my last one.

It is obvious from the statements made here that not very many

• Know the difference between "glare" and "reflection."
• Have taken the new backlit LCDs outside on a bright sunny day
• Know how to position their monitors to eliminate glare or virtually eliminate reflection
• Know how to adjust room lighting or
• Know that you can eliminate most reflections even in the most difficult cases by changing the screen background.

Regardless what anybody says, Apple is cognisant about what the effects of using computers can, amongst other things, have on our eyes and vision. http://www.apple.com/about/ergonomics/vision.html

As Apple states, their glossy LED display "… lets you view graphics, photos, and videos with richer color and deeper blacks…" and in comparison with a regular glossy LCDs or an antiglare display, the effect is significantly more dramatic, particularly when you view them from within a darkened room or outdoors on a bright sunny day.

Now my position will not be taken well by most of you. Yes, I prefer Apples LED glossy displays. And I would highly suggest that you all should do so as well. Or at least consider the following.

Any covering between you and the monitor, albeit using an anti-glare or anti-reflective glass or screen matting diminishes its true color or vibrancy. If reflection is still an issue, you can always temporarily place a anti-glare/reflective screen over the glossy glass and remove it at any time. Anybody remember those 'transition' lenses. No matter how well they helped you to climatize to the varying degrees of sunlight, they always looked gray, and everything you looked at was dull, no matter what time of day or night it was.

More important, before you jump into the "matte" arena, it is extremely important that you understand that there are a number of screen types to choose from, and it id best that you consider the environment in which you will be using the computer. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-an-a...ter-screen.htm

No matter which format Apple chooses to offer if they do come out with a 'matte' option, there will still be a question of whether it was the right one. At least with the 'glossy' display, I have a multitude of relatively inexpensive options available, whereas, I can't go backwards with 'matte' without incurring significant costs.

I have a glossy screen Macbook, and have never once had a problem with glare or reflection, but I guess options are always good. Offering both screens seems like a win for everyone.

I don't own a glossy screen laptop but have been thinking of buying a MacBook Pro. Now I will wait to see what happens.

Just wondering... Would a pair of polarising glasses let you see through the glare? Maybe Apple could issue these with every glossy MacBook. :-)

I spent more than 35 years working in data processing, from a humble computer operator in the 1970s to an IT manager when I retired due to ill-health. Throughout that period, the main request from operators and data entry clerks etc. was for some form of glare reduction for the CRTs that were the only available input devices for most of that time. We tried anti-glare polarising film for the windows behind the clerks, we tried venetian blinds We had polarising glass screens that hung onto the front of the CRTs, we had a sort of nylon mesh device that worked in the same way. This applied to the majority of users too!

Then, in the late 90s, we started to get the first LCD screens, like the ones from IBM, 14 or 15 inches, I think They were a beautiful thing, everybody loved them, even at £800!

Less than ten years later, Sony started to produce their glossy screen laptops, and I remember seeing them in a computer store and thinking that they must be absolutely mad, they were reintroducing what had been a completely unavoidable problem with CRTs for no other reason than marketing glitter?

Fortunately, when I finally bought myself an Apple machine, I inadvertantly bought the last matte 15 inch MacBook Pro in june 2008 from what was then a choice. I say inadvertantly, because I had debated for a few years about whether I needed a laptop or not, and when I finally jumped, I did not realise that this was the last one that Apple were to make.

Now, I am thinking of replacing my desktop PC, and would love to get an Apple, but my choices are REALLY limited. I have to choose either a MacMini and suffer the inconvenience of the thing grinding to halt when more than three applications are opened, or a MacPro, which is brilliant, but far more power than I really need. Funnily enough, I went to an Apple store yesterday and tested the MacMini to see how soon (according to my theory) it would take to crap out, and it was indeed not long.

So Apple We either need a midrange desktop (without a screen (MacMidi?)) or we need an anti-glare option on your otherwise excellent iMac, and we need it NOW!

PS If you want me to upgrade my laptop for another Mac at some point in the future, you need to offer a choice on those too!

Dude, take a look at the "Example" link in my signature below.

The "Museum Glass®" is a type of processed glass that is over 99% anti-reflective, I have seen it in person once at a frame shop. It has all the clarity of regular glass, but no reflections, thus no glare. It costs a bit more, but not a whole lot to be prohibitive.

The way anti-reflective glass works is by not reflecting light waves coming from the front side while letting light pass uneffected from the other side and through it. This is better than matte which distorts the light in both directions.

So it's not a "matte vs glossy" debate anymore, it's more like "how can we eliminate the reflections and glare from the new glass type screens?

A better type of glass is the solution and everyone, including glossy lovers, would be happy, it's because Apple is using a cheap form of glass that's why we got reflections/glare.

I don't think the issues with glossy displays are anything to do with a consumer's lack of knowledge of anything. You don't have to adjust anything for matte, you do for glossy - that is a problem regardless of knowing how to deal with it.


I've never had a problem with that using matte. People say it blurs output, reduces contrast and all sorts but I think it looks fine. My matte screens are sharp and the colors are great. The deepness of the blacks is not to do with glossy or matte but the panel quality.

Where's the lack of vibrancy in these matte displays:

http://juryan.com/mastagenie/attach/1/955288.jpg

Those are Apple's original matte IPS Cinema displays - no reflections despite the varied angles of the screens and yet vivid colors all round.

Someone took pictures of the anti-glare MBP, the glossy MBP and the old matte one:

new anti-glare

new glossy

old matte (might be old glossy)


The old model MBP looks washed out and the colors aren't so bright. The new anti-glare model has the same if not better black levels, just without the reflection.


I find that hard to believe considering they've sold them for years without any complaints.


Again the question arises, when have you ever heard someone complain about a mate screen? A matte screen has no issues to work around. Any lack of vibrancy or sharpness is severely over-hyped. It's simply not a problem.

The market is tight so they are starting to listen. When the $ are flowing again we will be ignored as before...

Your link is interesting So is you condescending mouth.

Now go back to your link and ask yourself the following questions:

1. Why are the picture frames, particularly, those displaying their special glass are darker, brighter, than the regular
2. Why, in the entire site, is there no reference or recommendation to use their products on or for computer displays?
3. Why don't you just get their acrylic material and do it yourself?

And equally interesting, why would Apple purposely be using a "cheap" form of glass? After all, the retail prices would simply be adjusted to reflect the additional cost of the screens.

Everytime my art director brings in his new Macbook Pro 15" into the conference room.

Abster2core,

Nobody needs to know what the proper terminology is to be able to see that the image is obscured and the colours inaccurate when using a glossy screen.

Nobody needs to know how to adjust lighting and positioning to see that a non-gloss screen gives better image representation without having to bother with any of that.

Nobody needs to know the technical reason why they are getting headaches to be able to recognize that those headaches disappear when they use a non-gloss screen.

I think it is safe to say that what determines whether a matte or glossy screen is better is based on individual preference. So, to cater to those individual preferences, Apple would be smart to offer both options.

That was uncalled for.



Because light is not being reflected off the surface of the glass and into your eye from another location, washing out the true image. What your seeing with the anti-reflective glass is the true image given by the excited atoms of the art itself.



There isn't any references or recommendations not to use their products on or for computer displays either. However "consumer electronics" is covered if you really looked around the site.



Now your troll side is showing again. It's a industry wide problem with glare and reflections.

If you know a valid reason why using anti-reflective glass/acrylic/polycarbonate/whatever is a bad thing, I'm all ears.



Because the people buying in the stores are in a emotional buying state and attracted to bright shiny objects. Shiny objects sells better.

Unfortunately when consumers attempt to use the machine, are bothered by glare and reflections from the screen, thus they are complaining loudly as witnessed across the internet.

Now they are expected (according your link at Apple) to make all these drastic lifestyle and environmental changes to fix a problem caused by the computer makers themselves. Quite unrealistic don't you think?



Now your coming around.

That's the aim of my argument, to get Apple to use a BETTER form of glass (or whatever they use) that has Anti-Reflective qualities so we ALL (matte and glossy folks) get the benefits of the better color, sharpness and contrast of glassy screens without the annoying, eyestrain and headache causing reflections and glare from the present type screens.

If it adds $60 or so to the price of a new machine for no reflections or glare, I think people would swoon over it.
After all we can get a cheap glare Windows crap PC anywhere, but a non-reflective glass screen, that's got Apple quality written all over it.


Note: A anti-reflective glass does NOT have to be a matte finish or anti-glare as Apple and other computer makers currently use.

The "Museum Glass®" example in my link looks just like regular glass, but has no glare or reflections.

Also I have no connections to TruVue or any other anti-reflective glass suppliers, just pointing out that glare and reflections has been "solved" long ago with glossy screens and imploring Apple and other computer makers to make the required changes for the health of their users.

Perhaps, but I imagine 99/100 don't know the difference between Reflection and Refraction.

I bet this will happen soon and it will happen quietly.

The most STUPID move of last 4 years is over!!!! Finally I can buy iMac!!!!!!! Hourrrraaaahh!

Gloss screen is the one and only reason to stop me from buying new iMac. Seriously.

I have been holding off from buying a new MacBook Pro until I can get a matte finish in the 15 in period.

Nothing happens quietly on Apple.COM

Keep in mind guys, this didn't actually happen yet. Be cautiously patient.

I am willing to bet most of the "Glossy Haters" don't even own a Mac with a glossy screen. So they are giving an opinion with no experience. Teckstud, who complains constantly about the iPhone, yet finally admits that he has never owned one. Do you own a Mac with a glossy screen, or are you just complaining with no actual evidence?

I just got the iMac 24" with the gorgeous glossy screen. I still have my iMac G5 on the same desk. So I have a side by side comparison of the glossy screen and the matte screen. Hands down, the glossy screen blows away the matte!

1) Clarity. The glossy screen is razor sharp because the LCD is behind a piece of glass, not a textured matte screen. Text on the screen is so much clearer on the glossy screen. The iMac G5 always had a grainy look because of the matte finish (especially on a white background). This degrades the sharpness of the text. I have far less eyestrain using the iMac 24" than I do with the iMac G5. Smaller fonts are now easier to read. For comparison sake, the acrylic 20" Cinema Display had a better matte screen than the iMac G5. It still had the grainy look, but not nearly as apparent on the iMac G5. The iMac G5 had a brighter screen than the Cinema Display.

2) Brightness. The iMac 24" glossy display is super-bright, really making whites look white. The iMac G5, which is only three years old, looks dull in comparison. The brighter screen is much easier to look at. The brightness is also more uniform across the screen.

3) Color clarity. Colors are far more vivid and the blacks are true deep blacks. Photos and video really jump out of the screen. The matte, again, produces a dull image especially with blacks, that don't really look black through the matte screen.

4) Reflection. Minimal. I don't have any glare issues at all. The iMac sits in front of the window on the side wall. I don't have any glare at all. A family member has the same 24" iMac in a room with a large sliding glass door behind him. When the Mac is on, there is no glare from the slider.

5) Glare from lights. I have a ceiling fan with attached light that does not produce any glare. I have a desk lamp with the swing arm and a tiny halogen bulb next to the iMac. At night, I turn off the room light and turn on the desk light. The lamp opening is a two inch diameter circle. Looks like the top of a mushroom on an adjustable arm. The only thing reflected on the screen is the sliver of light in the upper right corner of the screen. Since the iMac has a glass screen, you only see the small sliver of light in that corner. The matte screen, on the other hand, would diffuse the light across the entire upper quadrant washing out the entire corner with a haze of light.

Now what is misleading in the article is that BULLSHIT image of the two MacBook Pros side by side. The only true way to compare the two is to have the EXACT same image on both screens. They also turned the brightness WAY down on the glossy screen to intentionally show a reflection as if the Mac was off. If they had the same image displayed, and the brightness at the normal level, you would not see the reflection of the keyboard. I don't see myself in the glossy screen anymore than I did on a matte screen.

If they want to have a build-to-order option for Matte, that is fine, but don't intentionally mislead readers with a BULLSHIT image. You also can't look at a Mac in a store and think that is how it will look in your home. Your home doesn't have hundreds of lights shining everywhere. With MacBooks, the screen is adjustable and your body can move around. You couldn't see a matte screen outside in sunlight either! Just like buying a TV. Seeing a TV in a store is not how it will look at home. Once you make proper adjustments to a TV, it looks far better than when you saw it in a store.

The glossy screen wins hands down. It is a gorgeous screen to look at. Photo pros used CRT monitors in the past, so the glossy screen is no different. In fact, my wedding photographer (who has won numerous technical Emmys in TV production work, so he is considered an expert in the field) continues to use CRT monitors because matte LCD's degrade the look of photos. He said you don't get a true representation of a photo image through a matte screen. My wedding videographer uses Final Cut Pro with two 20" Aluminum Cinema Matte displays. His Mac is also connected to a Sony Professional CRT monitor which he uses for proper color and image correction of the video because the matte displays cannot display an accurate image.

So once you get a Mac with a glossy screen at home, in your own environment, you won't go back to Matte. I also compared my PowerBook G4 with the MacBook Air side-by-side and the glossy screen on the Air blew away the matte screen on the G4.

I do have a glossy 15" MacBook Pro and I hate the glossy.



Not quite. You have a side by side comparison of the latest glossy tech with 3+ year-old matte. It's not surprising that the glossy looks better.

Anyway, I don't know why you're so wound up about this. We're not trying to say that there should be no glossy screens. If you prefer glossy, great! Get glossy! It just would be nice to have a matte option too, especially given most people who hate glossy probably hate it enough that they'd pay extra for a matte screen (I would).

well duh!

"most zune haters dont even own a zune..."

why would you buy something you think is crap?!

No issues with a matte screen? Poor color reproduction, grainy appearance, poor text sharpness. All of that became obvious once I compared my new iMac 24" with my iMac G5. The matte screen doesn't even match the quality of the iMac 24" glossy screen.

Finally, another user that has real-world experience! My iMac G5 looks terrible next to the iMac 24". I love the people that claim they won't buy a new Mac because they (think) they hate the glossy screen. Since they refuse to buy one, they have never seen one in a home, and they believe the misleading articles and photos that they see on the internet. Just a bunch of lemmings going with the (negative) flow.

That is the problem. They are avoiding a purchase because they THINK it is crap, when they have no experience with it, and believe the misleading articles and comments from others that also have no experience.

It is simple. Most people here say the glossy sucks because they don't even own one, so they are spreading FUD. I do have a true side by side comparison because the matte screen ALWAYS had a grainy look from day one. It ALWAYS had dull blacks. If more people actually had real-world experience, and not just looking at one in a store or looking at misleading photos, then their comments would be more credible. But don't claim to hate something that you don't even own, which is what most people here do.

Wouldn't you agree the photo in the article is intentionally misleading? You own a MacBook Pro for true comparison. It is obvious they turned down the brightness and put nothing on the screen to intentionally reflect the keyboard. Talk about bad journalism.

Which article in particular are you referring to? There was an in depth one that I read (that ironically Apple themselves linked to) and it was not at all obvious that brightness had been intentionally turned down on the glossy.

I have a glossy 15" MacBook Pro and I also had the pleasure of using a matte 17" Unibody MacBook Pro for a few days. Without a doubt, that matte 17" screen is the best I've ever used. Have you used it? Again, your iMac G5 is three year old technology (note, this is different from saying it's aged three years so may not be working as well as it once did. I mean that technology has moved on since your screen was developed. Also, which size is it? I think that your iMac G5 may have a TN screen whilst the 24" iMac has the vastly superior IPS which could well account for many of the differences you are seeing). The only relevant side-by-side comparison you can do is a glossy 17" MacBook vs. a matte 17" MacBook, as they are exactly the same panel and backlight, but with different screen finishes. Anything else, and there are too many variables that could be affecting image quality.

To be honest, I'm always amazed when people say they don't have a problem with reflections on their glossy screens. With my MacBook Pro, the room essentially has to be dark, otherwise I can see reflections to varying degrees. It's highly annoying and I hope the next time I buy a MacBook, I'll have a matte option to go for.

I love my antiglare cinema monitor at home, and I really, really, really hate the glare i am currently dealing with at the coffee shop I am posting from on my Macbook Pro. If this is an option on the next round of laptops, I will upgrade immediately even though I am at least two years away from upgrading based on performance. Hear that Apple?

I have used both glossy, glassy, and matte displays on Apple's notebooks. And while I don't mind the glossy, the glass can be extremely reflective. I prefer the matte finish. I have the matte finish on my unibody 17" MacBook Pro and the screen is absolutely stunning. I have a 17" MacBook Pro with the glass finish on order at work for a colleague. I can't wait to see what that looks like compared to mine.