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post #41 of 253
[quote]Originally posted by philbot:
<strong>There WILL be a G5 PM announced next week, you can order it, but it won't ship till March.
Speed: 800DP, 1000DP, 1200DP

The current PM line will all be DP Apollo 800, 900, 1000 Mhz immediately.

Powerbook will ship 733 and 867.


In a few days you will see...</strong><hr></blockquote>

It's quite clear this guy doesn't understand bus multipliers. Is Apple gonna move back to 100MHz bus speed? [where is that skeptical icon??]
post #42 of 253
<img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
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post #43 of 253
[quote]Originally posted by Evil Ed:
<strong>

It's quite clear this guy doesn't understand bus multipliers. Is Apple gonna move back to 100MHz bus speed? [where is that skeptical icon??]</strong><hr></blockquote>

No, 200MHz.
post #44 of 253
What's so unbeleivable? He says the existing PM line will be speed bumped, which we all agree on. And G5s will be announced, not on sale.

I think there could and should be two lines of powermac. I use a G4 500 for DTP and to be honest its all I need for now. I don't fancy paying through the nose for anything quicker.

The speed freaks who all complain about MHz will be able to buy the G5 when it comes, and ordinary companies can buy the G4s.
post #45 of 253
I think it's more like crackpipe.
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post #46 of 253
Hope you're right man. I'm still going to believe the little info I was told a couple months ago.

At this point seeing all the reports about 800,933 and 1 GHz DP I don't care if they release G5s at a premium.

You're due Apple.

Also I'm sending Steve an email telling him how much of a joke it will be if they release those 1 GHz machines on Tuesday.
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post #47 of 253
G5 has a 400 MHz bus (quad pumped) so his speeds of 800, 1000, 1200 make absolute perfect sense.
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post #48 of 253
I personally don't think G4 will eb bumped and G5 just announced, I think we'll only see teh bump.

But Apple has don'e similar things before.
remember teh G4 being introduced as Yikes!
It was a G3 Yosemite with graphite case and G4 chip, everything else was the same. The REAL G4 Sawtooth came shortly after.

It wouldn't be the first time Apple gave us a piece of candy in expectation of the big cake.

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post #49 of 253
[quote]Originally posted by sizzle chest:
<strong>


This is something I've believed for a while -- that there is room for consumer Macs, Powermacs, and above that, "ProMacs" or "Supermacs."

I really do believe that there's a market for $4-6000 extremely high-end machines -- maybe a model tailored to 3d, a Photoshop monster, and a digital AV machine.

I know people who think nothing of spending $20k for Pro Tools gear to make their $2500 Powermac process audio faster. Give them the option of a $6000 machine that will run those processes natively on the CPUs, and people will snap them up. They won't sell in iMac or iBook numbers, but that's not the point. Apple would gain back the distinction fo being truly the "pro's computer," and they could earn a solid profit on these high-end machines.

That is.... IF the G5 is even really going to be ready by March as this person says. But actually, the same thing could be accomplished by quad (or more) multi-processor machines, new bus/memory technology, and much faster hard drives.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Two remarks:

1. If they want to release a 5000- 6000$ ├╝berPowerMac, Apple better make sure the current powermacs (at 3500$) are worthy of that name. That's my view. They'd better drop the current powermacs at half the price and let something better fill their slot.

2. Is protools even dual-processor and altivec-aware? I don't think so. Why should it be, I mean they make a lot of money on the add-on cards, no? I betcha they'd be pissed if Aple came out with a machine that suddenly made all their expensive add-on stuff redundant.

But we'll see.
post #50 of 253
Idea:
Apple knows if next week they only release 1000Mhz PowerMacs everyone will be really upset. So they tell us all that the G5 will be just around the corner. Then they put duals across the existing line and lower prices. Apple knows that they don't have huge numbers or G5s and therefore wants to have people order them now. This way it doesn't look like they can't make enough of them. It just looks like they are not out yet. The existing PM becomes a proconsumer machine and the G5 which will have a completely new case and will become the professional machine. This makes makes since to me and my magic 8 ball. Lets just put it this way I would not be surprised if this comes to pass.
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post #51 of 253
Okay. I think it is very unlikely that what is mentioned in the beginning of this thread will happen. BUT..I do think there is the very slightest possibility that this may happen.

Doesn't Intel do something like this or did something like this with the Pentiums? Announced faster PIII chips and that the P4 would be coming out on so and so date and orders are being taken now?
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post #52 of 253
[quote]Originally posted by the Belgian waffle:
<strong>
Is protools even dual-processor and altivec-aware? I don't think so. Why should it be, I mean they make a lot of money on the add-on cards, no? I betcha they'd be pissed if Aple came out with a machine that suddenly made all their expensive add-on stuff redundant.

But we'll see.</strong><hr></blockquote>


As far as Digidesign is concerned, it's not in their interest to make native processes faster on existing technology. They WANT their pro customers to think "Well, I can't run all the EQs and reverbs that I want on 24 tracks using native processing, so I'd better spend a fortune on Mix Farm cards so I can do it with outboard DSP."

As soon as the fastest Mac available can run multiple processes, in real time, on 16-24 tracks of high-res digital audio, Digidesign is done for.

In fact, we're already seeing a variation on the same thing with Avid, which is Digidesign's parent company. People can buy real time video processing cards and do their editing on a PC, or buy FCP 3 and run real time effects natively on their G4, so why do people want to spend huge money to buy Avid hardware?

It will hurt companies like Digi and Avid when this happens, but it would really benefit Apple to have a machine in that higher ($5-6k) price range that truly had massive processing power. If they can't do it with 2 CPUs, they should try quad-processor machines on high-speed bus/memory motherboards.
post #53 of 253
[quote]Originally posted by the Belgian waffle:
<strong>
2. Is protools even dual-processor and altivec-aware? I don't think so. Why should it be, I mean they make a lot of money on the add-on cards, no? I betcha they'd be pissed if Aple came out with a machine that suddenly made all their expensive add-on stuff redundant.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Making old add-in hardware obsolete certainly won't stop Apple from introducing a much faster new computer! I doubt ProTools would care, either. Margins on software are generally much better than on hardware, production is trivial, and patches are a lot easier..

[ 01-19-2002: Message edited by: Programmer ]</p>
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post #54 of 253
[quote]Originally posted by Mac Glue Sniffer:
<strong>Well, if Apple does ship 2 sets of PM towers you can bet that the G5 systems will be at a premium price.</strong><hr></blockquote>

If they are twice as fast as a dual athlon, then it wouldn't surprise me that these could be 8 - 12,000 dollars and worth it.

I remember pricing out some systems in the mid to late 80s that could easily approach $10,000. And that was with a school/edu discount.

I hope they do price them high and have lower priced G4 Apollos to offer as well.
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post #55 of 253
[quote]Originally posted by TigerWoods99:
<strong>G5 has a 400 MHz bus (quad pumped) so his speeds of 800, 1000, 1200 make absolute perfect sense.</strong><hr></blockquote>

What RAM would this use then? Wouldn't have to be RAMBUS, which operates at 400MHz (100MHz x4)? Currently DDR SDRAM runs at 266MHz (133MHz x2), and upcoming 333MHz DDR is 166.5MHz x2.
post #56 of 253
[quote]Originally posted by FotNS:
<strong>

What RAM would this use then? Wouldn't have to be RAMBUS, which operates at 400MHz (100MHz x4)? Currently DDR SDRAM runs at 266MHz (133MHz x2), and upcoming 333MHz DDR is 166.5MHz x2.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It is possible to run memory asynchronously (not at same clockspeed) as the front side bus. So that could be a possibility if the aforementioned information is correct.
post #57 of 253
[quote]Originally posted by M5884:
<strong>Idea:
Apple knows if next week they only release 1000Mhz PowerMacs everyone will be really upset. So they tell us all that the G5 will be just around the corner. Then they put duals across the existing line and lower prices. Apple knows that they don't have huge numbers or G5s and therefore wants to have people order them now. This way it doesn't look like they can't make enough of them. It just looks like they are not out yet. The existing PM becomes a proconsumer machine and the G5 which will have a completely new case and will become the professional machine. This makes makes since to me and my magic 8 ball. Lets just put it this way I would not be surprised if this comes to pass. </strong><hr></blockquote>


:nod:

Exactly, Apple knows what happened at the last July Expo. They didn't produce, and many consumers gave them hell for it. Apple can't stand to do that again without making a large number of their users jump ship because they just can't trust Apple to keep up with the x86 guys.
By releasing these *crappy* G4s and announcing the G5s as well as taking preorders on them in March it softens the blow of the crappy Apollos. If Apple just announces 867-1ghz apollo models...well, you know what's going to happen.
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post #58 of 253
[quote]Originally posted by cowofwar:
<strong>


:nod:

Exactly, Apple knows what happened at the last July Expo. They didn't produce, and many consumers gave them hell for it. Apple can't stand to do that again without making a large number of their users jump ship because they just can't trust Apple to keep up with the x86 guys.
By releasing these *crappy* G4s and announcing the G5s as well as taking preorders on them in March it softens the blow of the crappy Apollos. If Apple just announces 867-1ghz apollo models...well, you know what's going to happen.</strong><hr></blockquote>

who even said that the apollo would be intro'ed?
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post #59 of 253
[quote]Originally posted by the Belgian waffle:
<strong>

Two remarks:

1. If they want to release a 5000- 6000$ ├╝berPowerMac, Apple better make sure the current powermacs (at 3500$) are worthy of that name. That's my view. They'd better drop the current powermacs at half the price and let something better fill their slot.

What do you want? Pro Tools is dsp based, TOTALLY.
They just neede th Mac for hosting the chips. That`s all.
2. Is protools even dual-processor and altivec-aware? I don't think so. Why should it be, I mean they make a lot of money on the add-on cards, no? I betcha they'd be pissed if Aple came out with a machine that suddenly made all their expensive add-on stuff redundant.

But we'll see.</strong><hr></blockquote>
post #60 of 253
[quote]Originally posted by psantora:
<strong>

who even said that the apollo would be intro'ed?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I hope for Apple's sake that they do. If they just push lame-o regular g4s with 133 buses...
:eek:
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post #61 of 253
[quote]Originally posted by psantora:
<strong>

who even said that the apollo would be intro'ed?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Exactly, these are QS G4s clocked up to their max, nothing more.

This is a ploy to buy some time to get the G5s ready. This is great news for the G5. If 1.2ghz Apollos had come out then that wouldv'e meant the G5s were further off.
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post #62 of 253
hmmm....two powermac lines....prosumer market anyone?
well some could argue that the new iMac is geared towards prosumers, so how about a g4 mini-tower deal with 900-dp1200 mhz, 200 or so mhz system bus, ddr-ram(and lots of it) big HDs gigawire, and a few expandible drives sell them for maybe 1600-2000 or so, and offer it as an expandible iMac type thing where the g5 will go into the new PRO towers, ranging at 1.2-1.6 ghz 400 mhz bus 400 mhz ddr-sdram, geforce3 giga wire, more expandability...etc. starting at 2000( a bit steep, but you have to keep it fair)
then combined with the crt iMac apple would have a pretty damn dynamic computer line-up
simple consumer
advanced consumer
prosumer
and professional

not a bad Idea, although its unlikely
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post #63 of 253
[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong>

Exactly, these are QS G4s clocked up to their max, nothing more.

This is a ploy to buy some time to get the G5s ready. This is great news for the G5. If 1.2ghz Apollos had come out then that wouldv'e meant the G5s were further off.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I share KidRed's sentiments on this one. Rushing low-power chips (Apollos) into the PowerMacs would be a bad sign.
post #64 of 253
I think we are in for another let down.The stock holders also.The G-5 is probably not ready yet.
OS-X is not complete...yet...too many patches.
Give the new PowerMacs papers like the cabbage patch dolls.Give them also a new name because
they are a year behind in technology.You can blame Motorola all you want but it is Apples fault.Poor planning or exactly what they forecasted.Milking the slow cpus too much.I think
we will get Apollo G-4s and the G-5 to be expected
toward the end of the year.Since apple has not said a word.Revision A on the G-5 is probably
too expensive and not enough speed for the buck.
Plus, since Apple will not comment on its future
technology...it is not ready for a while..give it 6-8 months and then check back at apple.they will probably have a 10 Gig iPod...Wow...Buzzwords for apple in 2002 G-5 but no product.In the meantime
check out the G-36 at <a href="http://www.hkpro.com" target="_blank">www.hkpro.com</a> .At Heckler & Koch...in a World of Compromise.. some dont.Now that is a company.Apple thinks with all the hype
and marketing of the G4 iMac they can make great sales...but they are in for one big surpirse.It will not sell like the original iMac.Too many cheap Pcs.Even the Celeron is way fast.Alot of Pros are going to leave the apple platform for good.Once again.Too many holes in apples long term
planning.Their hard-core base customers are going
to turn on them.Not enough programs,machines too expensive and even
Steve Jobs will not dare show off PhotoShop in O/S
-X with a G-4 800 Mhz ...Big Deal....Apple and Steve Jobs look
crapier by the minute.He needs to call Hair Club for men.He can afford it???
post #65 of 253
What the Aecch Ee Dubble Hockeystix is wrong with that post?

It's almost impossible to read.

Are you doing that on purpose?
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post #66 of 253
Shut up Renan. The G5's are coming very soon. The Mhz differences will not be huge at first from the G4s. However they will be able to climb much higher. They will start at 1Ghz and scale up to 1.6 by summer. By the end of summer you will see a 2Ghz chip. Also because they are 64bit chips you will notice a huge speed difference. A 2Ghz G5 will be much faster than a 3Ghz P4. Motorola is not done for they just made a mistake with the G4. The world has not ended yet. Now when Hillary becomes president then the world will end and you can complain all you want. Untill then all hail the G5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I couldn't take all this crap about there being no G5 in that other post. There is a G5. The 8450 Motoralo's low power version of it is already shipping. This may go into the PowerBook. Yes there will be an upgrade to the current G4 line very soon ( I don't know if its the 22 or not maybe the 21) But the G5 is right around the corner. You'll see. If I'm wrong then something has seriously gone wrong over at Motorola.

[ 01-19-2002: Message edited by: M5884 ]</p>
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post #67 of 253
[quote] The 8450 Motoralo's low power version of it is already shipping <hr></blockquote>

No, it's not. Read Moto's press release. It's not even going to sample until the second half of the year.

[quote] This may go into the PowerBook. <hr></blockquote>

It's designed to be an embeded processor for high speed switches. There's no way the 8540 is going to go into a notebook.

[quote] But the G5 is right around the corner. You'll see. If I'm wrong then something has seriously gone wrong over at Motorola. <hr></blockquote>

Would this really be news to anyone? (Things seriously going wrong at Moto, that is.)
post #68 of 253
Ok your right the 8450 is not shipping. Sorry I got that info from another post. I should have checked it. In the future I will try to check before I post. I didn't know if it could be used in the PowerBook thats why I said "May be"
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post #69 of 253
Whatever is announced next week or even next month I'll be happy with it, obvsiously. Why? I'm not exactly sure. I sit here running OS X on a Lomard w/o DVD support (despite the fact that I have a DVD hardware decoder) and I wouldn't dream of going PC. Why? Again, I don't know, maybe its the OS&lt; maybe its the Mac community, maybe its because Apple just rocks. Anyway, when Apple ceases to do what it does best, which is do it right and do it cool, then I'll leave. My biggest concern is, who replaces Jobs in twenty years?
post #70 of 253
[quote]Originally posted by philbot:
<strong>There WILL be a G5 PM announced next week, you can order it, but it won't ship till March.
Speed: 800DP, 1000DP, 1200DP

The current PM line will all be DP Apollo 800, 900, 1000 Mhz immediately.

Powerbook will ship 733 and 867.


In a few days you will see...</strong><hr></blockquote>


Yeah, they are going to announce new G4s to be available immediately yet tell everyone G5s are just an another six weeks away. Oh, and do all this via a press release too. Uh-huh. Right.

Oh, will everyone who believes this BS please put your needles and crackpipes away and check into a rehab clinic right away? Thank you.



[ 01-20-2002: Message edited by: apple.otaku ]</p>
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post #71 of 253
Apple Store is updating their pages now ...
post #72 of 253
[quote]Originally posted by MirrorGuy:
<strong>Apple Store is updating their pages now ...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well I'll be! THEY ARE?! I'll bet its nothing tho
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post #73 of 253
[quote]Originally posted by MirrorGuy:
<strong>Apple Store is updating their pages now ...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Thanks for the heads-up.

They do do maintenance like this periodically without updating the products, but it IS only about an hour until the 20th...

My girlfriend says I'm being too hopeful.

And I am sure being awfully hopeful...

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post #74 of 253
[quote]Originally posted by Spart:
<strong>

No, 200MHz.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Wakey wakey, the half the iBook range are on 66Mhz bus speeds, the iMacs are on 100Mhz bus speeds. I'm doubtful we'll see a bus-speed increase to 200Mhz. This is Apple we're talking about.
post #75 of 253
[quote]Originally posted by pathogen:
<strong>If it's the G5... WHY AREN"T THEY HYPING IT?</strong><hr></blockquote>

They didn't hype the G4 neither. Steve just said "Guys an' girls, tata, the G4. Move over, speed of light." And that's it. No Count on get a blowj... err... what was it exactly?
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post #76 of 253
[quote]Originally posted by philbot:
<strong>There WILL be a G5 PM announced next week, you can order it, but it won't ship till March.
Speed: 800DP, 1000DP, 1200DP

The current PM line will all be DP Apollo 800, 900, 1000 Mhz immediately.

Powerbook will ship 733 and 867.


In a few days you will see...</strong><hr></blockquote>

We will see what philbot will have to tell the day after. Looks like a new round of betting-on-number in the daily rumor-roulette here.

Oh, I forgot my stake. PM G4 800-933-1000DP on 01-22-02 and PB G4 733-866 and iBook 700/800 in Tokyo. Source: . <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
post #77 of 253
Thread Starter 
[quote] Oh, I forgot my stake. PM G4 800-933-1000DP on 01-22-02 and PB G4 733-866 and iBook 700/800 in Tokyo. <hr></blockquote>

How much do you think a PM G4 800 will cost, considering the price of the iMac?

Surely the PM line has to significantly faster, hence my 'prediction' of an all dual PM line for prosumers.

The proformance range WILL be G5s!
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post #78 of 253
[quote]Originally posted by philbot:
<strong>The proformance range WILL be G5s</strong><hr></blockquote>


some day.


bye.
post #79 of 253
Lets face it. None of us have a clue about what is to come from Apple. I hope there is a G5 and for Apples sake there better be. But Motorola...I just don't know. I am willing to give them one more chance to redeem themselves. I think it's obvious there will be some sort of announcement very soon because of the iMac. But what it'll be I have no idea whatsoever. It's just that why not make the announcement at MW if it was just going to be a small speed bump of 133Mhz. I think Logic and Hope say G5, and past experience says Apollo G4 with small speed bumb maybe faster Bus. But we will all know very soon. And if Phillbot is lying lets flame him till he's well done....
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post #80 of 253
Originally posted by philbot:
[quote]There WILL be a G5 PM announced next week, you can order it, but it won't ship till March.
<hr></blockquote>

Forget it. Apple announces the G5 monday their whole inventory of G4 towers are garbage tuesday. Noone will buy a G4 until march and the financial quarter is totally ruined (which casts a bad light on the iMac-II).

Therefore we'll see faster G4s in the near future and G5 maybe in summer. The reg and MOSR started posting reports on the G5 when? November if I do recall right. From then on Moto will need at least 6 month to get the chips to mass-production.
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