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Microsoft says Apple legal wanted 'Laptop Hunter' ads pulled - Page 2

post #41 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

By dropping the price and making the call they forced the advertisement off the air.

Why do you say they were forced off the air. I saw the "Giampaolo" ad twice last night.
post #42 of 204
This screams volumes about how scared MSFT is of Apple. Seriously, the COO of a company with $60+ billion in revenue and $215+ billion in market cap feels that the call from the legal department of a smaller competitor ".... was the greatest single phone call in the history (sic) that I've ever taken in business"!?

This is quite sad, really. They need to get a life.

--

PS: I think the MSFT ads, although a little misleading, are totally fair game; and a bit funny, to boot. It would also seem that Apple's sales and market share are withstanding it well -- we'll see soon, when the quarterly numbers are announced.
post #43 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by MACsucks View Post

It is proven that Apples have just as many vulnerabilities as PCs. But Apple make-up less than 5% of the market share for computers, so who do you think hackers and virus programmers are going to focus on? 5% of the market or 95% of the market?


Well stated...I'll be sticking with building my own PCs....Regardless of what any commercial says, it's the best way to go. And you can't blame an OS for problems without taking a look at who's using it...Microsoft has Every kind of user, many more things to be able to pick at, while Apple....not so much.
post #44 of 204
Apple's legal team is not the brightest of the bunch, they keep on messing up with silly and childish knee-jerks.

In my opinion, one of the few and relevant lawsuits by Apple's legal team is the one against Psystar.
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post #45 of 204
Slightly off-topic to MSFT, but has anyone taken a look at Apple's other competitor, Nokia, today? Down 14%, on a 66% decline in profits.

Apple's numbers had better be good. O/w, hang on for the ride.....
post #46 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc View Post

Bad example! It's like saying I hate Ford because they didn't do a good job designing their engine which tends to stall and someone put the wrong additive into the gas that helps the problem. If Windows was designed properly you wouldn't need anti-viruses.

I've found this last comment a bit out of reality. I think all things designed or made by humans have flaws small ones or big ones. My point here is that the Antivirus/Security Industry is a big one in technology, and the most popular, used or selled OS is Microsoft's, they have to deal with a big echosystem of hardware and software, they made a big contribution to personal computing, and for that and it's huuuuge market share is profitable to exploit it's vulnerabilities and make money from it. Why would i be interested in making a virus or exploit a MAC or Linux System, it's not that it can't be done, it's that there's no real, big money making on it, the one on top will always be the center of attacks or critics.

If Macs were properly designed this event Involving a MAC Owned in 10 seconds wouldn't have happened:

http://www.itwire.com/content/view/23941/53/

Or IBM - the one that is always looking for a way to not depend that much on it's alliance with M$ - saying in it's 2008 annual report that OSX it's the most vulnerable (page 44)

http://www-935.ibm.com/services/us/i...ual-report.pdf

To me it's just that all the blackhats or code geniuses or malicious attackers are not interested on it!, they want to mess with THE big one, not with an underdog.

by the way i own a macbook with Leopard, Run Debian 5, and Windows 7 and they all serve the same "everyday user" purpose, email, web browsing, skype, documents, Music... so what's the deal. For my specialized uses i would go for Linux/M$. But that's me.

Cheers
post #47 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadodare View Post

Well stated...I'll be sticking with building my own PCs....Regardless of what any commercial says, it's the best way to go. And you can't blame an OS for problems without taking a look at who's using it...Microsoft has Every kind of user, many more things to be able to pick at, while Apple....not so much.

stop replying to yourself and stick to one account
post #48 of 204
Unfortunately, this does seem plausible. Apple has the personality of its founder: brilliant, but at times erratic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic_Al View Post

Microsoft's ads are aimed at different people than Apple's ads. They play to fundamentally different psychology. I don't think a customer who would respond to Microsoft's ads could be persuaded by Apple's ads or vice versa.

I wouldn't say that's true anymore. Right now I'd say there are actually more normal users buying Macs than Mac users. The family who was considering switching or switched but isn't quite comfortable, these could be very effective.
post #49 of 204
In this tough economy, regardless of how good a Mac is, if you need to put food on the table and are struggling to get by, I don't think a $1000+ Mac is such a wise decision when a PC for $500 could just as easily get you buy. Sure, it may break down, but let's not live in a fairy tale world here, people are hurting.

Now, I'm not saying that Apple isn't getting more sales than they have been in previous years; they are certainly still breaking records. But to believe that Macs are superior while ignoring that on average they cost more is the same as saying that a BMW is better because of the logo and not extra thousands you are paying for higher quality parts and service.
post #50 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimerl View Post

I too think it's strange that apple hasn't countered on the idea that m4 has to pay people to buy their product

I can see it now.... John Hodgman talking about how no one wants him...... then a young lady walks by and he takes out a fist full of money and is like "Young lady, I'll pay you to take me home with you"
post #51 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

I wouldn't say that's true anymore. Right now I'd say there are actually more normal users buying Macs than Mac users. The family who was considering switching or switched but isn't quite comfortable, these could be very effective.

I was speaking with my neighbor (a mother of 2) and she said she bought a mac, and i asked how she liked it and she sounded surprised that it was the same internet, same email, and it did the same things her old computer could do. It was really frightening actually lol.
post #52 of 204
Legal departments do NOT call each other with 'cease and desist'. An certainly without some legal basis. They send overnight letters. Silly to take an antedote in a speech as gospel truth.

Also...

Apple would have no motivation to stop the adds. Let M$ waste money marketing to the Walmart crowd. People as under-informed as the 'unscripted' individuals in their adds wouldn't be buying a mac in the first place. Microsoft is simply reinforcing a subset of buyers whose buying habits aren't changing in the first place.

'Value' is always a relative term. As the counter add points out.. what does 'value' mean when you are getting crap.
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post #53 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by macare View Post

What proof does Mr. Turner put forward in this article? What the name of the person on Apples legal team is he quoting. By the way? I just got a call from Microsoft Marketing department and they told me Steve Ballmer flue to Memphis to get a lobotomy. http://forums.appleinsider.com/image...s/1smoking.gif

what good is another lobotomy?
post #54 of 204
I presume the reason that Apple legal called is that the MS ads misrepresent the price of the macbook pros. If the ads say that you can't buy a MBP under $1,500 but the new price is $1,300, then the ads misrepresent the facts. This is why Apple legal requested MS to stop showing the false ads.
post #55 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post

I agree 100%, after all the ads they have run with half trues in them. On the other hand, I highly doubt that they would do this unless they had legal ground to stand on. Dropping the price of a computer that is still much higher in initial cost is not what I would call legal grounds. And it makes no sense to have a 'laywer' call M$ on this if they weren't prepared to do something about it. Honestly, I'm not buying this....yet.


I believe people may feel Apple's ads tell only half-truths, because they've had a PC that's "worked just fine", without the problems highlighted by the Mac vs PC ads. But the truth, in my opinion, is that that only applies to half or less of the PCs out there that are in general use by consumers. In my 7 years working in the computer industry, more than half of the people that I've work with have had problems with their PCs, but even more obvious is that many people are afraid of their computers due to viruses and other malware. They settle into their little comfort zone and/or end up spending tons of time and money getting their computers doing what they really want. It's a sad life indeed, when a few extra dollars could give them a much better experience.
post #56 of 204
1)There's no way that phone call actually happened.

2) There's no way those ads are unscripted.

This guy is completely full of $hit. End of story. Common sense would tell anyone that's the only logical conclusion to make here.

Lawyers from one company don't call executives from other companies out of the blue and demand anything. As someone said earlier, they send letters, emails, things that can be tracked and easily proven.

And NOTHING on TV is unscripted. Not the "reality" shows that people love so much. Certainly not commercials. These people may not have been handed scripts, but they were certainly screened and coached before they went on camera. Again, that's just common sense. Why would you pay someone to potentially embarrass you?
post #57 of 204
If somebody loaded with cash says to you "I'll give you up to $1700 to buy the computer of your dreams", who on earth would really get one for $899? Wouldn't you get the best one you could for the money? Could there really be nothing better in the $900-$1700 range? I don't see how this could be honestly unscripted.

At least now we know why Apple has been having some trouble maintaining stock on the 13" MBP--they must all be going to SAG actors on Microsoft's dime.

Also, I completely agree that the idea of an Apple lawyer calling up the COO to "tell" him to stop running an ad is extremely improbable, unless they're already golf buddies or something.
post #58 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadodare View Post

Well stated...I'll be sticking with building my own PCs....Regardless of what any commercial says, it's the best way to go. And you can't blame an OS for problems without taking a look at who's using it...Microsoft has Every kind of user, many more things to be able to pick at, while Apple....not so much.

wow, it's first-post-arama out here today!
post #59 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTSmith View Post

I presume the reason that Apple legal called is that the MS ads misrepresent the price of the macbook pros. If the ads say that you can't buy a MBP under $1,500 but the new price is $1,300, then the ads misrepresent the facts. This is why Apple legal requested MS to stop showing the false ads.

Apple legal did no such thing. Certainly not with a phone call. The guy is lying. Plain and simple.

If Apple wanted MS to stop showing the ads, it would have sent a cease and desist letter, like it does with every company it wishes to stop doing anything. Until this guy produces that letter, his story is simply not credible.
post #60 of 204
The phone call probably happened, but it has probably been misrepresented a little bit. Right now Microsoft is targeting Apple in their ads, planning on opening up stores next to Apple Stores and "laughing" at them in the media. I think it might be nervous laughter though.

That said, people are lemmings, and the Laptop Hunters ads are effective for that reason. I can see Apple taking offense if they make completely false statements such as "you can't buy a mac with such and such specs for under such and such a price", which could be the case now (I don't know, I don't watch much TV, so I don't see the ads very often).
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post #61 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic_Al View Post

Microsoft's ads are aimed at different people than Apple's ads. They play to fundamentally different psychology. I don't think a customer who would respond to Microsoft's ads could be persuaded by Apple's ads or vice versa.

Not so much at different people, but at different parts of the same person's brain. Microsoft's ads are targeting fear. Apple's ads target desire. We all carry both in our heads, so it's a question of which impulse wins out at any given time. With the economic situation we are in now, Microsoft is banking on fear trumping desire. They may even be right in the short term, but over the long haul, desire would seem to be the more powerful factor motivating retail sales. So I think Microsoft will be searching around for another approach pretty soon. Apple OTOH will not have to change their approach.
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post #62 of 204
What a liar. Or tool. He really believes he was on the phone with an Apple attorney? And if he counts getting an attorney to pick up the phone as an indicator of effectiveness then he's just as deluded as the customers in his ads. And they don't run the ads as unscripted. They prescreen customers and survey them and choose customers that they know are looking more to buy a Windows PC.
post #63 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

I was speaking with my neighbor (a mother of 2) and she said she bought a mac, and i asked how she liked it and she sounded surprised that it was the same internet, same email, and it did the same things her old computer could do. It was really frightening actually lol.

the magic of lowered expectations. the interwebs is still the same. if you get a chance, explain to her the other stuff her mac can do well, eg ilife, that winders struggle with. when a non-geek asks me about what 'puter to buy, they want an 'appliance' that'll just do what they want. no one wants to become a pc hobbyist, messing around w/ video cards and cooling systems and optimizing drivers and such. it's enough that they figured out how set the clock on the vcr. oh wait, they set automatically now that everyone has dvd's.
post #64 of 204
What really bugs me about the commercials that Microsoft is airing is, why are they advertising HARDWARE, microsoft doesn't create HARDWARE that their operating system runs on. They're advertising a product that isn't even theirs. Ok, they're operating system runs on the laptop, but they're not advertsing the software, they're advertising hardware,... WHICH ISN'T THEIRS.
post #65 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post

Why do you say they were forced off the air. I saw the "Giampaolo" ad twice last night.


That's the one that offends me the most. He says with his smirky, mishapen mouth some garbage like, "Macs to me are more about aesthetics than computing power."

First, it that really your thought, G, or is the the script written by your employers at Microsoft? Second, why does your opinion count? It is ill-informed and obviously biased by your taskmasters.

Hey, Apple, point a camera at me and I'll say, "PC's to me crash a lot, are constantly being infected and are exceptionally difficult to configure, are larded with tons of useless trial software, and the Microsoft apps for photos, music and movies are sick jokes."

Cut! That's a wrap! I'll be in my trailer.
post #66 of 204
Well apple has some nerve if this is true . They lie in their Im a mac and Im a pc ads also.

That is why i dont think this is true. Why would apple call up Microsoft and ask for the ads to be taken down when they know that they lie in their ads also.

Leonard: They are advertising hardware because Apples ads advertise as Microsoft selling the hardware. If this wasnt the case then the ads wouldnt be targeted just to Microsoft. Just the fact they bash microsoft but call him a pc is doing that. Linux, and other free operating systems run on PC's and I dont see apple bashing them. So microsoft is just playing the same game that apple is.
post #67 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by macFanDave View Post

PC's to me crash a lot, are constantly being infected and are exceptionally difficult to configure, are larded with tons of useless trial software, and the Microsoft apps for photos, music and movies are sick jokes.

why does your opinion count? It is ill-informed
post #68 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Can you name a specific statement that's now inaccurate that wasn't before? The only one I can think of that might be inaccurate is the one of the video editor lady. Otherwise, the price drops weren't enough to change the accuracy of the statements in other ads that I remember.

The video lady complains about the 2 gb memory on the MBP - that one is still airing. Very misleading.
post #69 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

How does a troll find this site?

That's precisely what I was thinking. Don't they have anything better to do with their time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimerl View Post

wow, it's first-post-arama out here today!

For trolls, it sure seems like it!

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post #70 of 204
yeh, like a good friend who bought a lap that had everything, even a BD-player. Could he use it? No way, no software came with the machine and the maker/seller freed themselves of all responsibilitie. THAT's the pc-way - oh, all bells & whistles to attract customers but no guarantee it will be working once you've checked out.
post #71 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard View Post

What really bugs me about the commercials that Microsoft is airing is, why are they advertising HARDWARE, microsoft doesn't create HARDWARE that their operating system runs on. They're advertising a product that isn't even theirs. Ok, they're operating system runs on the laptop, but they're not advertsing the software, they're advertising hardware,... WHICH ISN'T THEIRS.

Good point. What makes it even weirder is, their bread-and-butter software -- Windows, Office -- runs on Macs too!
post #72 of 204
though on the surface it seems like petty whining and certainly Microsoft will paint it that way, Apple is in the right on one issue and perhaps in the right on another.

1. the prices are incorrect. Microsoft should pull the ones with the wrong prices and replace them with new ones with the correct price. they might even just be able to redub the audio so the correct price is spoken

2. whether, even without going inside, Microsoft can show the outside of an Apple store in the ads without permission from Apple or show Apple products without permission (which you can bet they didn't give). I don't know the rules on that one but you can bet Apple will look into it and add it to any claims over the false price issue.

course even with those changes, Microsoft is still hedging the facts in their favor and a lot of computer users won't be fooled, or at least not fooled for long. but hey, they got their money for now so what's the worry.
post #73 of 204
though on the surface it seems like petty whining and certainly Microsoft will paint it that way, Apple is in the right on one issue and perhaps in the right on another.

1. the prices are incorrect. Microsoft should pull the ones with the wrong prices and replace them with new ones with the correct price. they might even just be able to redub the audio so the correct price is spoken

2. whether, even without going inside, Microsoft can show the outside of an Apple store in the ads without permission from Apple or show Apple products without permission (which you can bet they didn't give). I don't know the rules on that one but you can bet Apple will look into it and add it to any claims over the false price issue.

course even with those changes, Microsoft is still hedging the facts in their favor and a lot of computer users won't be fooled, or at least not fooled for long. but hey, they got their money for now so what's the worry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by holywarrior007 View Post

Well this is strange for two reasons; 1. Apple is crying about it when they themselves have been having these PC vs Mac ads for some time and the MS didn't complain, 2. Are these ads really working?

MS didn't complain because they knew there was a vein of truth to the Apple ads, the vein being that Apple was picking on the chief complaints about Windows by the consumers. On the other hands, Microsoft is airing ads giving out known to be bad info. It gets into slander/libel issues if they don't pull or change the ads. and Apple has stepped up to say they will do something about it. just like they will do something about Psystar, about companies like Palm using itunes hacks with their phones etc. Microsoft is lashing back by painting Apple Legal to be a bunch of crybabies.
post #74 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

First, I kind of think your wife bought the PC out of spite. Sounds like she's sick of listening to your rantings about mac vs pc and wanted to get a pc to be rebellious in some manner (lol )

Second, your story about the anti virus messing up the system sounds like horse poo. Sorry, not trying to start a fight here or anything, but if your IT guy had half a brain, updates like that would be controlled by his department, and if the update rendered the PC inoperable, they wouldn't push it out to the network.

Now, that said, if the update did cause an issue like that, being bitter towards the PC because of a third party's screw up is like me saying I hate ford because the supercharger I put on blew the engine up...

The wife's move i think was more about ignorance than spite.

The anti virus software update was a corporate controlled aplucation and update and affected at least 200 out of 1200 computers on my company. I did not say I was made at Microsoft bur who should I be upset with Microsoft for the OS full of security problems or Ibm or Hp for selling systems affected or maybe intel or nvidia for the chipsets affected? Sunbelt for puttong out out a flawed update? Or maybe the folks who write malware?

If I bug a car from ford with a factory installed supercharger and it blows The engine should I get mad at ford? Or the contractor who built the engine or the engineer who desigend the supercharger?

My main point is that regardless of who is responsible no matter how careful you are running windows will alwsys have certain challenged that running mac os simply avoids
post #75 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

The phone call probably happened, but it has probably been misrepresented a little bit.

That's my feeling as well. There may have been a phone conversation, but the way it's described sounds like hyperbole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

People are lemmings, and the Laptop Hunters ads are effective for that reason.

Consumers who don't do their homework may be lemmings and susceptible to these misleading and misrepresentative ads. I find the ads annoyingly unrealistic for many reasons. For one thing, the ads set up the Mac vs. PC issue as primarily one of hardware/specs::expense where the real issue is software/user experience::value.

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post #76 of 204
Apples arent any better than PC's, maybe worse. It is proven that Apples have just as many vulnerabilities as PCs.[/QUOTE]

The only place that's proven is in the fantasy land that resides in your head.
post #77 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpbollen View Post

Apple Lawyers don't make social phone calls; they send "cease and desist" letters if they are sure to have a case.

And you KNOW this because you worked in Apple's Legal Department for how long was it again.

i thought so

in point of fact, it is possible that yes the call took place. Apple is in the middle of several lawsuits, avoiding another one would be a very good idea. And if a phone call to say "You are running ads that have false information about our products. this is your chance to avoid the mess of a lawsuit by fixing the problem now." does the job, why not. Doesn't mean they don't think they have a case, just means they want to avoid the long road and first treat this like it was a harmless error. Assume good intent and the issue is simply that Microsoft forgot that the older created ads mention exact prices.

if it doesn't work, slam them with the suit.
post #78 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaCameron View Post

That's precisely what I was thinking. Don't they have anything better to do with their time?

On a lark, I found that this article was linked on the front page of Google News, it was one of the three stories under the tech section. We seem to get a few trolls pop up whenever it's linked from Google News that way.

Why they take five minutes to sign up just to make a single diatribe post is beyond me.
post #79 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaCameron View Post

That's my feeling as well. There may have been a phone conversation, but the way it's described sounds like hyperbole.

Probably. Product disparagement via false claims made in advertising is prohibited by federal law, so if Apple had an actual claim of disparagement, it makes sense for it to have been made in a cease and desist letter at least, not in a phone call.

http://www.rkmc.com/Lanham_Act_Also_...ing_Claims.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

in point of fact, it is possible that yes the call took place. Apple is in the middle of several lawsuits, avoiding another one would be a very good idea. And if a phone call to say "You are running ads that have false information about our products. this is your chance to avoid the mess of a lawsuit by fixing the problem now." does the job, why not. Doesn't mean they don't think they have a case, just means they want to avoid the long road and first treat this like it was a harmless error. Assume good intent and the issue is simply that Microsoft forgot that the older created ads mention exact prices.

A cease and desist letter is not a lawsuit.
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post #80 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post


The only place that's proven is in the fantasy land that resides in your head.

someone provided a link you should see (here it is: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/23941/53/ )
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