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Key Apple retail exec now shaping Microsoft stores - Page 2

post #41 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Burn him

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You guys are nuts!

It's ok for Apple to get executives from other companies, but not for them to get Apple's?

Where do you think companies get executives from? No one hires out of school for top people.


Sacrilege!
post #42 of 136
If this was Apple, you guys would be saying different things. Keep an open mind and don't be so narrow. Life is too short girls...
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post #43 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

What are you talking about? Did you bother to read the entire article? If you had, at the end, you would have read this;



Other articles have said that MS won't be selling anything in these "stores", that they are just to display and demonstrate products, and that they would have a hard time selecting products to sell because of all the competing interests of so many software and hardware companies they are associated with.

If you now read the post I was responding to, and my reply to it again, you will see, in light of that, why I responded the way I did.

If you wish to talk about being responsible, I suggest you start with yourself.

After you've gone over all of that, I expect an apology. I'm being nice for a moderator. Most other sites would have just kicked you off.



I would apologize if you had put a source reference in your Article.

If you don't post a source or any information where you pulled the information from, you could have pulled the information from anywhere. If it was a reputable site I could have done my own research without pointing out your flaws to the article.

Apology is now in order.
post #44 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post

I don't believe that for a second!

Even if they initially only want their stores to be 'showrooms', customers will eventually demand to be sold something. Who would want to enter a store and only look at things - if you actually intend to buy?

Trust me, it won't be long until they start selling things.
First it will be Microsoft software and hardware like mice and keyboards.
Then it will be favorite software or software Microsoft wants to showcase with Windows 7.
And finally third-party hardware.
Initially they might only sell it online inside the store, shipped to the client. But it won't be long before main configurations are sold in store. At least smaller hardware like phones, music players, netbooks and small laptops.
Otherwise what's the point of opening a retail store?


And I'm sure soon Microsoft will offer 'deal of the month' hardware items, deliberately targeted to counteract newly released Apple hardware where shoppers can play 'Lauren' and see how much they can save in the Microsoft store for 'the same hardware' as compared to the Apple Store next door.
I bet that this will happen.

It'll be interesting to see how Apple will react to that.


They might copy the 'Genius Bar' as well, and One-on-One training.

Benefits for Microsoft are twofold:
- more exposure and better profile
- a way to showcase the hardware products they want the industry to steer towards, either directly by making users buy certain products or indirectly by only showcasing products from hardware vendors who 'please' Microsoft.


Also consider that these new stores might be about selling digital content onto whatever hardware a customer brings in. Perhaps even iPods.
That's where Microsoft could indeed 'innovate'.

Imagine that within a Microsoft store you could try any software you like, be it Zune handheld software or PC software. It'll be downloaded straight from some MS servers on demand for customers to try.
Then if you like it you can order it via disk-on-demand burnt onto disk right there for you in store or you can buy it via download right there and then as well.
This could be the biggest AppStore ever!
And all software would be 'try before you buy'!
As I said, I can see some room for actual innovation.
Although I hope Apple will be there first.

All of the articles are just going by what MS itself has said; they won't be using these locations to sell, but rather to show.

Whether they change their minds over time, or even by the time they open is something we don't know.

The one thing that may prevent them from using these locations as normal stores would be the comparison between theirs and Apple's.

Apple's stores have one of, if not the, highest sell numbers per square foot of stores in any category. If MS sells in these stores, they will be compared directly to Apple's. Being that they want to locate as close to Apple's as they can, that would bring up interesting questions.

First amongst them would be why, in the same location, are Apple's stores doing so much better than MS's, and does that mean that MS's products, and those of the third parties they may also be selling are considered to be so much less valuable than Apple's?

That's a comparison that wouldn't be a good idea.

No matter what MS does, their products, and those of their partners, are sold in more locations than Apple's by a long shot. Therefor, there isn't any real reason to buy from one of MS's stores, unless prices are much better.

I can tell you from having had a company that sold some of its products through dealers, that you NEVER undercut your distributers and dealers. They get mad. Real mad. They even stop carrying your products. I never did that, but I know others who did. Not good. Even MS isn't immune from this.

So if MS can't offer discounts that are better, why would these stores sell at all?

Can you imagine how it would look if the Apple store across from it was packed, and the MS store just had stragglers? If they didn't sell anything, they could say that people were coming in for help, or guidance, and not too many people needed help or guidance as MS's products were so easy to use. Lame, I know, but excuses are always found if required. But if it were a regular store...

I don't see any point to this. It would be a lot better to have a couple of MS trained people in MS's dealers to help people. I think they said they were going to do that too.
post #45 of 136
By putting a store next to Apple, MS has more to lose than to gain. Let me explain why :

When you put premium product next to a regular product and the price difference is within comfortable range, there is tendency of the regular product shopper to move to premium product, but not the vice versa. The price difference is the key element here. If the price difference is too high, reverse movement is possible. This is the strategy many sales guys use. They would show a regular product and then say "but for few dollars more you can have the a better..."

MS has agreed that apple is premium. That is the reason why they never talk about the quality aspect in their ads and just focus on price. They also make statements like "I am not cool enough to be a mac person" in their ads.

With the current reduction in price, the price difference between MS and Apple has come to a comfortable range (about $200, which %age wise should be in 20-30% range). When a person shops in MS store and sees Dells and HPs and then peeks into an Apple store, they are likely to settle for Apple. (If they bring their teens or college going children, they will almost be forced to buy at Apple)

If you sell cheap products, the best strategy would be to talk about price, but don't let people see the premium products. MS can't control people from looking at Apple products, but the least they can do is to distance themselves from Apple
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post #46 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post


Any Apple Sheep in here own an XBOX?
Any of you have a virtual desktop so you can play REAL computer games?
Any of you need to have IE run corporate Software at home?
Any of you NEED MICROSOFT OFFICE TO DO YOUR JOB?

Need an ATM? They all run Windows OS.
Need a Hospital? They all run Windows OS.
Need to check out at Best Buy, Lowes, the Grocery Store. They all run Windows.

Apples computer sales are now 35% of their total revenue. Apple now makes Phones and Music Players for 65% of their revenue.

We're going to have to move their category to gaming business by 2011.

No XBOX, Wii is great
I have VMWare, but everytime I boot Windows on it, it takes forever to do its thing, slows XP and the OS X side. I got so tired of it, I invested 700-1000 in replacement software for the Mac.
I need IE for one thing only. It runs well on Citrix and WINE
Do I NEED MICROSOFT OFFICE? ABSOLUTELY NOT! Piece of bloated stale crap compared to iWork. Try iWork, it will make your life much easier.

In 2-3 years all those things you mention, ATMS etc... will be running chrome OS. There was no serious challenger to Win CE for a long time. Microsoft beware, Apple and RIM rule the smartphone and Google Chrome will rule the "small Appliance PC".
post #47 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

Quote: If Apple that much better than Microsoft than why after 30 years do they have 8% of the computer desktop arena (in the USA ONLY). World Wide Apple isn't even on the chart.

I have often shaken my head with disbelief at this one. Here is why IMHO.

Could it be that Windows users found the whole process of learning and using the PC so daunting that they don't want to go through it again with any other computer? Couple that with the myths that Apple Macs can't do this or that and the misperceptions about price and you have people hesitant to switch.

These are the reasons people I know don't want to switch. I wasn't crazy about it myself, but I was so blown away the first time I walked into the Apple store in SOHO I knew it was right for me. OSX Tiger and iLife were so far ahead of what was available in the Windoze world. And of course the iMac was so beautiful compared to a HP Pavilion!

A major reason was because for several years, Pc's were IBM Pc's, and companies had IBM mainframes and mini's. IBM had, and has a very large sales force. Companies bought these IBM Pc's ( "Nobody gets fired for buying IBM" was the phrase back then.), and people bought for themselves what they used at work, because that was what they were trained in. Businesses also gave Employees discounts on hardware and software, and often gave them software for free, all to better their use of the equipment at work.

As a result, most people used Pc's. This continued after IBM lost control, because at that time, a Pc was a Pc.

Mac's were not Pc's and so were out of the loop for most, especially after 1996, when companies that had Macs in large numbers began divesting themselves of them. But that's another story.
post #48 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post

I would apologize if you had put a source reference in your Article.

If you don't post a source or any information where you pulled the information from, you could have pulled the information from anywhere. If it was a reputable site I could have done my own research without pointing out your flaws to the article.

Apology is now in order.

Please get rid of this delusional guy.
post #49 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post

I would apologize if you had put a source reference in your Article.

If you don't post a source or any information where you pulled the information from, you could have pulled the information from anywhere. If it was a reputable site I could have done my own research without pointing out your flaws to the article.

Apology is now in order.

It's not MY article. I didn't write it.

Apology accepted.
post #50 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

What are you talking about? Did you bother to read the entire article? If you had, at the end, you would have read this;

Other articles have said that MS won't be selling anything in these "stores", that they are just to display and demonstrate products, and that they would have a hard time selecting products to sell because of all the competing interests of so many software and hardware companies they are associated with.

If you now read the post I was responding to, and my reply to it again, you will see, in light of that, why I responded the way I did.

If you wish to talk about being responsible, I suggest you start with yourself.

After you've gone over all of that, I expect an apology. I'm being nice for a moderator. Most other sites would have just kicked you off.

Edit.
It doesn't matter if it was your article. You backed it up with nothing from a credible source and kept quoting the Apple Sheep.

How about a Wired Magazine article from July 15th with the quote.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/...ext-to-apples/

"It’s unclear whether the Microsoft stores will be selling strictly Microsoft hardware (e.g., the Zune or Xbox 360) and software, or whether it will also be selling products from third-party companies. In the past, Microsoft has said the purpose of the stores was to build the company’s brand name by connecting with customers."

Melgross Quote
Quote:
Quote:
All of the articles are just going by what MS itself has said; they won't be using these locations to sell, but rather to show.

The other obvious "CLUE" was the woman had a shopping cart. What the heck is she going to put in the shopping cart?

In other words YOU READ APPLE SITES AND MADE YOUR OWN CONCLUSION.

awaiting an apology...
post #51 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's not MY article. I didn't write it.

Apology accepted.

That was not an apology. I was waiting for yours for the poor article that gave no relevent information to the source of the article.
post #52 of 136
I've had the pleasure of visiting five different Apple Stores here in the States and one Apple Center in Prague, and in all of them most of the Macs on display had the latest Microsoft Office for Mac loaded onto it. I wonder if Microsoft's retail "stores" will show the same professional courtesy by featuring even a single Mac loaded with their own Office for Mac product. Somehow, I doubt it.

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post #53 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaCameron View Post

I've had the pleasure of visiting five different Apple Stores here in the States and one Apple Center in Prague, and in all of them most of the Macs on display had the latest Microsoft Office for Mac loaded onto it. I wonder if Microsoft's retail "stores" will show the same professional courtesy by featuring even a single Mac loaded with their own Office for Mac product. Somehow, I doubt it.

Apple "needs Microsoft" for Microsoft Office. That is the only reason it was there.

Apple needs Microsoft for business users. Microsoft doesn't need Apple for anything.

Edit.

http://www.macworld.com/article/1380...se_office.html

As of January 09 77% of Mac users run office.
post #54 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Can you imagine how it would look if the Apple store across from it was packed, and the MS store just had stragglers?

But isn't that exactly what would happen if they don't sell anything? Why would people then go to the MS 'store'?

But I hear what you're saying. You can only report what MS says.
Yet MS isn't stupid. They're not burning money for nothing.
So they must have a plan.

And I can see 2 elements:
- selling support
- selling software on-demand

One of the biggest magnets in Apple Stores is the Genius bar, as well as the new One-on-One training.
People know they can go to the Apple Store and get help and support in a reasonable turnaround time. That's really reassuring to retail customers.

With Windows support it's currently not as easy. Corporations have their own support systems, but Joe Shmo has no one. Getting help in a Microsoft Store might seem more trustworthy than picking a random number from the yellow pages...


And the stores could be about selling software, movies and songs.
A massive 'try before you buy' setup could actually be tempting. Especially with the huge amount of PC software available.
Providing a 'real' AppStore Microsoft can always claim that they're not selling these things, that they're merely offering people a chance to try/see/listen before they buy.

Whether customers buy via CD/DVD burn-on-demand in the store, or via electronic download or someplace else altogether, Microsoft might not care.
At least they got people lured into the store and can now show them their brand new Zune and XBox hardware.
post #55 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post

Microsoft doesn't need Apple for anything.

Technically that's not true.

Microsoft indeed needs Apple to be alive and relatively well. Otherwise any monopoly inquiry by the US or Europe would have a field day!

The mere fact that people have a choice in Apple keeps Microsoft independent and unregulated.
(I do not think Linux qualifies (yet) as a consumer product alternative for Joe Average.)

This is the one thing Microsoft needs Apple for.
Apple shouldn't be too big (obviously) but cannot be insignificantly small either.
My estimate would be around 3%-5% market share. That's where Microsoft would like Apple to be. 10% max.
post #56 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

"Microsoft will be paying for expensive leases but won't necessarily recoup its investment through actual sales."


How can Microsoft possibly afford to do that? Oh, I forgot, their products are way overpriced.

i thought that was the hate on Apple. Overpriced while Windows based computers are the proof

Quote:
Originally Posted by rnp1 View Post

ITS TIME FOR APPLE TO HAVE EMPLOYEES SIGN A TEN YEAR NON COMPETE!

Quote:
Originally Posted by robintosh View Post

Traitor!

BTW... MS is just telling everyone, once again, that Apple is the leader and that MS is just following on something they don't even understand.

lets drop the hate. I"m sure this guy had a non compete at some point and if it was an issue
Apple would have jumped on it. Since they haven't they are likely aren't too worried about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8CoreWhore View Post

It seems to me the only thing novel about what they are doing is the location: directly adjacent to Apple stores

they never said directly adjacent. they just said near. and you can't blame them. getting their little 'stores' in or near the same areas makes it easier, they will believe, for folks to comparison shop. and they felt certain folks will go Windows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

Quote: If Apple that much better than Microsoft than why after 30 years do they have 8% of the computer desktop arena

you assume they want to go higher. Have you been reading all the talk about the Psystar sitch. Part of why the anti-trust case was tossed is because Apple has only about 10% of the market. if they gain too much strength, they will be legally forced to stop tying hardware and software and they don't want that.

Quote:
Could it be that Windows users found the whole process of learning and using the PC so daunting that they don't want to go through it again with any other computer? Couple that with the myths that Apple Macs can't do this or that

which is why over the last 3-4 years Apple stores have added

1. file transfers from pc to mac
2. one to one training
3. workshops
4. online videos

and so on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post

Apple "needs Microsoft" for Microsoft Office. That is the only reason it was there.

i am not going to be shocked if we stop seeing Office on the demo computers and see much more pushing of iwork. i've been using keynote and it is brilliant. i find it much easier than powerpoint. Pages is quickly proving better than Word. Numbers is the only thing I am not totally fond of, but it is growing on me as I learn it
post #57 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post

Technically that's not true.

Microsoft indeed needs Apple to be alive and relatively well. Otherwise any monopoly inquiry by the US or Europe would have a field day!

The mere fact that people have a choice in Apple keeps Microsoft independent and unregulated.
(I do not think Linux qualifies (yet) as a consumer product alternative for Joe Average.)
That is the one thing that Microsoft needs Apple for.

That is not true if they have no competition.

Apple has dominated the personal media player for years.

It can only be seen as unfair if there is no competition. Take Intel for example.
How many notebooks or desktops run anything other than Intel.

Intel is a monopoly only for the reason that no other competitor has given the EU, US Gov or anyone else to go after them. In other words Intel can't be considered a monopoly without competition.
post #58 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacCad View Post

What caught my eye was the shopping cart. Can you picture that in an Apple Store?

So they expect me to go to their store not necessarily to buy something but to experience their advertising. Why would I do that when I'm constantly muting their TV ads?

Yeah, what is the deal with the cart? If you can't buy anything what are you gonna put in the cart? Looks like Microsoft has their top geniuses on this one.
post #59 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Once one of the cornerstones of Apple's early retail efforts, real estate expert George Blankenship has switched sides and is now providing advice to Microsoft on plans for its own stores.

Georgie, porgie, pudding and pie has forgotten that for a store to be successful, the products have to be desired.
post #60 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post

In other words Intel can't be considered a monopoly without competition.

No, not really.
Competition laws don't necessarily even forbid monopolies.
Only once the monopolist abuses his market position things become illegal.

Consumers still can purchase a computer with AMD chips inside.
Only if Intel would purchase AMD could they be considered a monopoly. Which is why this will never happen. Apart from the fact that officials would never agree to such a merger.

It's the same with Apple and Microsoft.

The exact figure of what is considered 'sufficient control' changes on circumstances. Neither in Microsoft's nor Intel's case it was considered big enough - yet.
post #61 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You guys are nuts!

It's ok for Apple to get executives from other companies, but not for them to get Apple's?

Where do you think companies get executives from? No one hires out of school for top people.

I was wondering about that from the first post; but then I remembered this is Apple fan-boy site (with all the respect for those reasonable members).
post #62 of 136
Except apparently for ideas.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post

Microsoft doesn't need Apple for anything.
post #63 of 136
Very true. Microsoft was essentially handed an already entrenched PC market and it had one major piece of luck: namely IBM foolishly agreed to license DOS from Microsoft other then insisting on buying it outright. IBM didn't see that one day other companies would manufacture the PC other then itself and that the operating system would become more important. By the time it did, it was too late.

IBM to businesses was computing. Once IBM put it's stamp of approval on Microsoft, Microsoft couldn't fail. Businesses and governments invested big bucks on IBM PCs and related software. They weren't dumping that for untested options from a new company like Apple even if the product was better. Further, big business doesn't like to tools that are already paid for without a significant justification for doing so. It isn't cost effective. At my job, we are using Windows XP running Office 2003.

Interestingly enough, however, Apple is making dents in Microsoft's wall. I am starting to see Macs in places I never would have thought before. For instance, I am an attorney, and more and more attorneys are using them. Warms my heart.


I think Office is also becoming less relevant. I use it because I got it for like $30 at my former University. I, however, mostly print to PDF and share documents that way. So, using many other various options is a real option.



Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

A major reason was because for several years, Pc's were IBM Pc's, and companies had IBM mainframes and mini's. IBM had, and has a very large sales force. Companies bought these IBM Pc's ( "Nobody gets fired for buying IBM" was the phrase back then.), and people bought for themselves what they used at work, because that was what they were trained in. Businesses also gave Employees discounts on hardware and software, and often gave them software for free, all to better their use of the equipment at work.

As a result, most people used Pc's. This continued after IBM lost control, because at that time, a Pc was a Pc.

Mac's were not Pc's and so were out of the loop for most, especially after 1996, when companies that had Macs in large numbers began divesting themselves of them. But that's another story.
post #64 of 136
Microsoft needs to learn from Sony's flagship store failures before they try to learn from Apple's successes. Advertising is one thing, but you have to figure out a way to make money with it. The stores have to extend your image in a practical way.

That doesn't quite go along with Microsoft's support strategy...
post #65 of 136
As an AAPL shareholder, I love reading that MSFT is copying Apple's moves. They will be forever playing catchup if they continue down this path. Meanwhile, Apple will forever enjoy being first to market with 'the latest cool thing'.

What sets Apple apart is that they dare to be different. They work to delight their customer's by anticipating (or even creating) their customer's needs. They don't blindly copy someone else's moves or react to the demands of clueless market analysts.

I hope Microsoft opens a sh!tload of retail stores. They could arrange all the various PC manufacturers boxes by color; or by size; or by price. I'm sure they can find some way to avoid the place looking like a dog's breakfast.

Regards,
%$#@!
post #66 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post

Edit.
It doesn't matter if it was your article. You backed it up with nothing from a credible source and kept quoting the Apple Sheep.

How about a Wired Magazine article from July 15th with the quote.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/...ext-to-apples/

"It’s unclear whether the Microsoft stores will be selling strictly Microsoft hardware (e.g., the Zune or Xbox 360) and software, or whether it will also be selling products from third-party companies. In the past, Microsoft has said the purpose of the stores was to build the company’s brand name by connecting with customers."

The word is still out on exactly what they'll be doing there. While I'll give you that they'll apparently be selling their OS, and possibly Office and a few other pieces of their software, possibly the Xbox. Other than that, no one knows what they'll be doing. In the past, they did say that they wouldn't be using these to sell, but in one or two areas, they seem to have changed their minds.

But this article from the WSJ, it seems as though they still don't know if they will be selling third party hardware, as I said;

Quote:
One of Mr. Porter's tasks will be to figure out whether to actually sell computers rather than merely show off their features. Any decision that favored some PC makers and left others off store shelves could anger some hardware partners.

Stephen Baker, an analyst at NPD Group Inc., which tracks retailers, said Apple doesn't face the dilemmas Microsoft will in the retail business because Apple makes the hardware and software for its products. "That's going to be a big challenge for Microsoft," Mr. Baker said.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123448293075579777.html

Quote:
The other obvious "CLUE" was the woman had a shopping cart. What the heck is she going to put in the shopping cart?

In other words YOU READ APPLE SITES AND MADE YOUR OWN CONCLUSION.

awaiting an apology...

That wasn't a clue. it was a picture designed to conjure some reaction from people. MS hasn't even finalized what the stores will look like. They are still testing the concept,if you read the article, you'll see that.

The fact that you didn't understand my first post is grating on you, isn't it? You're taking this WAY too seriously.
post #67 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Except apparently for ideas.

Considering 30 years have passed and Apple Users Hate Window OS & Server Software and everything Microsoft has done on the Notebook, Desktop & Server arena and Apple is still at 8% market share in the US and not even on the charts in the rest of the World I'd say their own ideas are working just fine.

Apple has a phone and a music player. They should expand on that. The gaming industry is huge in the under 20 year old market.

OK. I forgot. They have the AppleTV and a 1 button mouse.
post #68 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post

But isn't that exactly what would happen if they don't sell anything? Why would people then go to the MS 'store'?

But I hear what you're saying. You can only report what MS says.
Yet MS isn't stupid. They're not burning money for nothing.
So they must have a plan.

And I can see 2 elements:
- selling support
- selling software on-demand

One of the biggest magnets in Apple Stores is the Genius bar, as well as the new One-on-One training.
People know they can go to the Apple Store and get help and support in a reasonable turnaround time. That's really reassuring to retail customers.

With Windows support it's currently not as easy. Corporations have their own support systems, but Joe Shmo has no one. Getting help in a Microsoft Store might seem more trustworthy than picking a random number from the yellow pages...


And the stores could be about selling software, movies and songs.
A massive 'try before you buy' setup could actually be tempting. Especially with the huge amount of PC software available.
Providing a 'real' AppStore Microsoft can always claim that they're not selling these things, that they're merely offering people a chance to try/see/listen before they buy.

Whether customers buy via CD/DVD burn-on-demand in the store, or via electronic download or someplace else altogether, Microsoft might not care.
At least they got people lured into the store and can now show them their brand new Zune and XBox hardware.

Well, after reading more than recent twenty articles about this (as opposed to using info from the older ones I remembered), it seems as though the latest consensus, which I see is rather different from the ones back in February when they first announced this, is that they will likely be selling Windows, Office, a few other of their programs, and maybe the Zune and the XBox. Whether they'll be selling any third party goods is not known yet.

But my argument still stands. If they don't do very well at this, it will be seen as a failure.

I don't know why they even want to try.

It looks lately as though they just want to copy whatever Apple does when their own plans go awry.

This started in a big way when "Plays For Sure" failed.
post #69 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Fred 1 View Post

Exactly how big of a store do you need to sell what they have?
They got......and OS CD and a Office CD and a Mp3 player.
I think it's a dum. Maybe Apple planted George to screw um up. Haha
Wouldn't that be rich!

They also happened to have XBox, games, non-Microsoft software for Windows, peripherals (keyboards, mice, joypads, steering wheels, webcams)... and they can offer desktops and notebooks using their software and hardware. Then, programmable toys like Lego Mindstorm, video games related toys (Halo, Devil May Cry action figures etc)

Thinking of it, they can offer anything designed for Windows - even competitors' peripherals (like Logitech keyboards and other stuff), components for enthusiast-built rigs... you name it.

One thing I am not afraid of is that their shelves will be half-empty. Is it all going to be presented in the best possible and most inspiring way, well, that is whole another question.
post #70 of 136
OMG Micro$oft should name their new store "Bing"
Apple had me at scrolling
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Apple had me at scrolling
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post #71 of 136
That used to be true. However, that was because Mac users wanted compatibility with Office's Windows cousin. Microsoft then foolishly went and broke compatibility in Office 2008. As such, I really don't need Office anymore, I just use it because I have a real cheap copy and I am accustomed to it. In truth, Word Perfect is a better suite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post

Apple "needs Microsoft" for Microsoft Office.
post #72 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post

Apple is still at 8% market share in the US and not even on the charts in the rest of the World I'd say their own ideas are working just fine.

Look at Apples market cap for 8% market share. Look at the impact they have had on the industry.

Not bad. There's more to life then just volume - not that I would expect someone like yourself to understand such subtleties.

The thing is, you can remain focused on market share and they will continue to siphon off the cream and leave the crap scraps for the rest of the industry. Race to the bottom, boys!
post #73 of 136
[QUOTE=melgross;1451705]
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post

...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123448293075579777.html



That wasn't a clue. it was a picture designed to conjure some reaction from people. MS hasn't even finalized what the stores will look like. They are still testing the concept,if you read the article, you'll see that.

The fact that you didn't understand my first post is grating on you, isn't it?

The date of your article that took you so long to come up with was from February 13th, 2009. I would expect that they have a bit more worked out with their partners and after an entire Quarter (4 months) they obviously had more to release to Wired than the article you posted.

Take an example. Apple has a 3G phone that has been out for almost a year.

Apple has done a few things in the past 4 months and so has Apple.

At least post a relevant up-to-date article to back up your posting.

I know not a lot has happened in the tech industry in the last 4 months but it would be nice to read current material backing up the Lame article posted that has no journalistic ethics.

By the way... Yes, I understood the article & have posted relevant information to make the article nothing more than an irellivant posting by a rumor site looking for hits.

Until you can post something from July of this year it's still the same dribbling article with no merit.

And there is still a shopping cart in their photo that was released in this quarter (as in recently).
post #74 of 136
[QUOTE=iPhone1982;1451713]
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


The date of your article that took you so long to come up with was from February 13th, 2009. I would expect that they have a bit more worked out with their partners and after an entire Quarter (4 months) they obviously had more to release to Wired than the article you posted.

Take an example. Apple has a 3G phone that has been out for almost a year.

Apple has done a few things in the past 4 months and so has Apple.

At least post a relevant up-to-date article to back up your posting.

I know not a lot has happened in the tech industry in the last 4 months but it would be nice to read current material backing up the Lame article posted that has no journalistic ethics.

By the way... Yes, I understood the article & have posted relevant information to make the article nothing more than an irellivant posting by a rumor site looking for hits.

Until you can post something from July of this year it's still the same dribbling article with no merit.

You need an attitude adjustment, and quick.

Disagreements are fine, but not your dismissive way of phrasing it.
post #75 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Look at Apples market cap for 8% market share. Look at the impact they have had on the industry.

Not bad. There's more to life then just volume - not that I would expect someone like yourself to understand such subtleties.

The thing is, you can remain focused on market share and they will continue to siphon off the cream and leave the crap scraps for the rest of the industry. Race to the bottom, boys!

It's only good for Apple. It does nothing for you unless you are a shareholder in Apple.

Other than that you'd be a cheer leader for Apple that doesn't get paid.
post #76 of 136
[QUOTE=melgross;1451715]
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post


You need an attitude adjustment, and quick.

Disagreements are fine, but not your dismissive way of phrasing it.

Was anything I said not true or backed up with a relevant article that was current?

You need the attitude adjustment because you can't admit this article or your arguemnet has no merit.
post #77 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post

... Microsoft sells their OS and Server software to the World's Banks, Governments, Businesses and consumer users. Their software alone is reason enough to have a store. ....

This sounds like total nonsense to me. You don't know what you're talking about.

Stores are for the end consumer, Microsoft's main customers are businesses, not consumers. In consumer software, Microsoft has a small handful of products of which only two (Windows and Office) make up more than 90% of it's sales. The only hardware they have is mice and keyboards.

I think it's totally fair to say Microsoft "doesn't have product" for retail.

I'm thinking the only way this will work at all really is if they con their hardware partners into paying for the stores and then sell those third party products. In other words, the computer section of any Staples store, but jazzed up a bit.

The margins will be razor thin and the location of the stores (next to Apple stores), poor for the product they are selling. They will have to spend far more than they want to on sales staff and free junk and jazzing everything up just to compete and that will destroy whatever margin they can eke out.

These stores will not make a profit and will be for show only. Microsoft says as much itself in their own releases about this project.

What's the point of doing that and how long can they spend that money? Unless there is only one or two stores, I don't see how this will last very long at all.
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
Reply
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
Reply
post #78 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post

Other than that you'd be a cheer leader for Apple that doesn't get paid.

My, a little bitter and myopic, aren't we?

If Apple is successful then they can continue to do what they do best - create products that focus on the end user experience - in such a way that I (and millions of others) will continue to want to use them.

That's all. If I'm a "cheer leader for Apple" because they make products worth cheering for. As soon as they stop, so will I.
post #79 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

This sounds like total nonsense to me. You don't know what you're talking about.

Stores are for the end consumer, Microsoft's main customers are businesses, not consumers....

The margins will be razor thin and the location of the stores (next to Apple stores), poor for the product they are selling. They will have to spend far more than they want to on sales staff and free junk and jazzing everything up just to compete and that will destroy whatever margin they can eke out.

Microsoft's OS margins are not even close to paper thin. They make a very good margin on it.

92% Market Share means an aweful lot of consumer computers.

If they use the stores to sell computers and software they get a margin on every computer sold which will have Windows 7 on it. I see it as more of the big picture, maintaining OS market share while getting paid by their vendors to pay the rent as well as getting people to migrate from Win XP.

Now that's a marketing plan that makes sense.
post #80 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post

Microsoft's OS margins are not even close to paper thin. They make a very good margin on it.

92% Market Share means an aweful lot of consumer computers.

If they use the stores to sell computers and software they get a margin on every computer sold which will have Windows 7 on it. I see it as more of the big picture, maintaining OS market share while getting paid by their vendors to pay the rent as well as getting people to migrate from Win XP.

Now that's a marketing plan that makes sense.

83% of new PC's had Windows installed last year;

Quote:
Microsoft's problem: Windows is by far the most-used PC operating system. Last year, 83% of new PCs sold had Windows built in.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/12/tech...ales/index.htm

But how much difference can it really make? They've said that they plan to open a "few stores". Likely they'll access how it's going before spending more money.

But what's their purpose here? Do they really see Apple as taking so many people away that they need to spend what could become hundreds of millions on a serious effort?

Most people don't upgrade their OS's. Or at least they haven't done so in the past. Most people just buy a new machine when theirs get too old. Retail sales of Windows is small compared to the number of new PC's sold.

Quote:
It’s difficult to extrapolate what the deferred revenue figures suggest about overall demand for Windows 7. Deferred revenue projections provided by the company largely reflect retail sales, a relatively small portion of total Windows sales. Microsoft doesn’t disclose what percentage of Windows revenue comes from retail, but analysts say sales through original equipment manufacturers are the overwhelming majority

http://marshallweinberg.com/wordpress/?p=290

This is old news. It's always been true.
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