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Key Apple retail exec now shaping Microsoft stores - Page 3

post #81 of 136
MS is a fine enterprise, OS & server company ... they have lost $50 billion in every venture since 1998? And yet shareholders don't have a problem with YET another new division that, "won't necessarily recoup its investment through actual sales."

Why kind of capitalism do they practice again?

For us - another nail in MS' coffin ...

For shareholders?
post #82 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbelkin View Post

MS is a fine enterprise, OS & server company ... they have lost $50 billion in every venture since 1998? And yet shareholders don't have a problem with YET another new division that, "won't necessarily recoup its investment through actual sales."

Why kind of capitalism do they practice again?

For us - another nail in MS' coffin ...

For shareholders?

Well, honestly, they do make $7 billion in profit every quarter.

They have lost vast amounts on other areas and investments, but since the software business is so profitable, and with MS's monopoly, they have vast locked in sales every year, they can afford to lose money on other things.

In fact, a few years ago they had over $60 billion in cash and investments, and stockholders wanted to see much of it, so they gave most of it out to stockholders as a one time distribution.

It's true that some are not happy about the stock sitting where it has for so long, so they've started to give a dividend.
post #83 of 136
This company is so dumb and so stupid that all it does is copy Apple. Which goes to show that big is not always better.

Full of greed, full of money and greatly lacking in talents and ideas. Shame on you Ballmer! Shame on you! These stores will close within a few years. Let's see what they will sell.

As for Mr Blankenship, he will live to regret conspiring with these bastards.
post #84 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC4Theo View Post

This company is so dumb and so stupid that all it does is copy Apple. Which goes to show that big is not always better.

Full of greed, full of money and greatly lacking in talents and ideas. Shame on you Ballmer! Shame on you! These stores will close within a few years. Let's see what they will sell.

As for Mr Blankenship, he will live to regret conspiring with these bastards.

Let's not get overwrought over this.
post #85 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post

Considering 30 years have passed and Apple Users Hate Window OS & Server Software and everything Microsoft has done on the Notebook, Desktop & Server arena and Apple is still at 8% market share in the US and not even on the charts in the rest of the World I'd say their own ideas are working just fine.

Apple has a phone and a music player. They should expand on that. The gaming industry is huge in the under 20 year old market.

OK. I forgot. They have the AppleTV and a 1 button mouse.

Give it up, troll - you're just showing yourself to be an idiot.

(Apple hasn't made a one-button mouse for along time).
post #86 of 136
Hey iPhone guy, get over yourself. Notice that Mel has not taken you to task about your spelling. You could take some class lessons from him.
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post #87 of 136
Microsoft would better spend its time buying influence in Washington, since a lot of federal money is being handed out. New contracts, "broadband," etc.

Also, MS ought to be engaging in investment hedge funding kind of like top universities do. Windows is a great legal shelter for the extraction of society's wealth. MSFT should cement its power through finance. The reality is, MSFT software is not the real story. MS is a marketing and legal innovator. To that, it should add "financial." This is a great time for them to invest, perhaps through a subsidiary Microsoft Capital. This is something they could do to actually make money. To just sit around and tweak their billing and licensing for years and years is just lazy, and it's a mountain whose summit they have reached.
post #88 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post

I'd say their own ideas are working just fine.

The only "idea" that is germane to their desktop dominance was the decision not to tie their OS to an MS hardware solution. And they've been riding that horse for 30 years. As desktops become the mainframes of the 21st century we'll see who laughs loudest and last as folks use their mere iPhones/Music Players to take care of business formerly done on desktops and laptops. Face it, MS is a legacy system in the truest sense of that expression.
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post #89 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You guys are nuts!

It's ok for Apple to get executives from other companies, but not for them to get Apple's?

Where do you think companies get executives from? No one hires out of school for top people.

hehe it was only a joke, I dont really want him burnt to death. Just slightly maimed in one leg perhaps.
post #90 of 136
The problem with the store will not be so much what it looks like, but rather the products they sell. It looks exactly like a PC World (in the UK).

PC World sucks.
post #91 of 136
What's up with the otherwise hot girl in the mom jeans?
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"it's" contraction of "it is"
"its" possessive form of the pronoun "it".

It's shameful how grammar on the Internet is losing its accuracy.
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"it's" contraction of "it is"
"its" possessive form of the pronoun "it".

It's shameful how grammar on the Internet is losing its accuracy.
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post #92 of 136
You can just see how this "strategy" is playing directly out of a meeting room somewhere on the Microsoft campus. They've obviously declared war on Apple and someone probably had a list of bullet points about what Apple is doing right and they're going to pull a direct assault on each one. First those damn PC/Mac ads... then the stores. Hey, I know... let's get the guy who led the whole effort setting up the Apple stores.

The problem is that Apple's stores have a lot of amenities that are going to be hard to duplicate in the PC world. I won't list them all off but stop and think about some of the good things about the Apple stores and then consider how MS would match that.

A great example would be the fact that you can walk into the Apple store with an ailing Mac, iPod or iPhone and the people there know the hardware/software inside out and are authorized to take whatever action necessary to deal with the problem (including replacing it.) That's possible because of the limited range of hardware options and the fact that it's all from one company.

For MS to match that, they're going to have to have people on site who can authoritatively fix any brand of PC with any imaginable hardware and system configurations, *and* any phone or music player that interfaces to said PC. And replacements for bad hardware... how is that going to work?

Countering the genius bar concept is going to have similar complexity.

Who knows? Maybe they have a much different concept in mind, but given the fact that they've got the same guy heading up the effort who did the Apple Stores, I kind of doubt it.
post #93 of 136
I am in favor of these "stores".
They will be nothing but financial sinkholes. Probably will be full of kids playing on the xbox displays, chasing away adults, And allowing reasonable people to do a head to head comparison with Apple products. They will also allow all of Microsoft's hardware companies to show off their products. And further drive Apple to innovate their offerings.

But the real news here is the window into the psychology of MS's well paid executives. As they say, the past is prologue, and it is therefore fully predictable how this will turn out. These guys must be a bunch of yes men. I can just see Balmer writing up a list of things he likes about Apple and copying it, and how badly he really wants to visit an apple store, but can"t because their are too many damn cellphone cameras out there.

Does anyone know who I can get in touch with at Microsoft to pay me to consult and tell them the how and why of how this will all turn out and how it will effect their bottom line? I would even take the job on a sliding scale, commensurate with how accurate I am.

Anyone know who I can get in touch with?
post #94 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by 801 View Post

I am in favor of these "stores".
They will be nothing but financial sinkholes.

Yeah, that would be my guess.
post #95 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by wraithofwonder View Post

That isn't true. While a great many ATMs use Windows, there are a good number that don't. Heck, some even use Linux.

Correct. I used to program ATMs for a living. Although new deployments are (unfortunately) using Windows, many established ATMs use OS/2, and financial institutions already using OS/2 are continuing to deploy OS/2 rather than switch to Windows because of concerns over security and licensing fees.
post #96 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post


If Apple that much better than Microsoft than why after 30 years do they have 8% of the computer desktop arena (in the USA ONLY). World Wide Apple isn't even on the charts.

Do you honestly not know why?
post #97 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

The only "idea" that is germane to their desktop dominance was the decision not to tie their OS to an MS hardware solution. And they've been riding that horse for 30 years. As desktops become the mainframes of the 21st century we'll see who laughs loudest and last as folks use their mere iPhones/Music Players to take care of business formerly done on desktops and laptops. Face it, MS is a legacy system in the truest sense of that expression.

MS hasn't rolled out anything remotely worthwhile or compelling in the consumer market since 2001, save for the Xbox. And Win XP was nothing to be proud of.

Their greatest accomplishment is their licensing scheme and their servility to the corporate sphere, which has translated horribly into the consumer sphere.
post #98 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post

Edit.
How about a Wired Magazine article from July 15th with the quote.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/...ext-to-apples/

"Its unclear whether the Microsoft stores will be selling strictly Microsoft hardware (e.g., the Zune or Xbox 360) and software, or whether it will also be selling products from third-party companies. In the past, Microsoft has said the purpose of the stores was to build the companys brand name by connecting with customers."

And that's what I'm waiting to see: whose products will a Microsoft store sell, or even use to demonstrate the fabulousness of the Windows experience? Dell? HP? Sony? Acer? Toshiba? Logitech? Linksys? Because whatever company doesn't make the blessed list is going to be pissed off, and that's not smart when your market success is dependent upon the goodwill of the hardware manufacturers in your stable.
post #99 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post

They want a computer that they can use for personal an business use.
They want a notebook they can take to work and hook up to the Network either via Ethernet or WiFi and they are connected.

You want money out of an ATM machine you need Microsoft.

What planet are you on here? This is the same tired excuse you hear from people who have never actually used a Mac!

I work in a dual platform environment supporting hundreds of users and I can assure you that integrating Macs onto a corporate network enviroment is often quicker and easier than a Windows box. Far fewer clicks to join Wifi, or add a network printer. When Windows users see this kind of time saving they become interested in the platform.

Get money out, you mean like this?

http://failblog.org/2008/06/25/atm-fail/

post #100 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You guys are nuts!

It's ok for Apple to get executives from other companies, but not for them to get Apple's?

Where do you think companies get executives from? No one hires out of school for top people.

Exactly. After reading the comments in this thread... just disturbing... it's clear that some are simply miffed at the mere thought that a former Apple employee- one that contributed much to the company's success in advertising and brand recognition over the past decade- is now working for the other side: the eeeeeevil Microsoft. OMG, and Microsoft might just benefit from having his expertise in the same way that Apple did! Now, that's sure to further ruffle the fanboys' feathers too.
post #101 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psych_guy View Post

Stories like this make me hate Microsoft even more. I have to laugh at the notion that MS would "innovate" in the long run. LOL!

This is part of the reason that financial advisor advised investors to sell Microsoft stock fast! This retail store chain is what going to finish them off! I don't care if they got the Apple Store blueprint straight from Steve Jobs himself. If Microsoft cannot make a stable and secure operating system then how well they can do as storefront. Everything Microsoft been selling has been is a MSRP meaning no discounts so don't expect to go to get Windows 7 at a discount. Then what do Microsoft have to show? Xbox 360, Zune, Microsoft Windows and Office? The one thing Microsoft cannot copy from another company is integrity. I wish they would open a store here in Houston, I send everybody who has a a 360 with RROD or the New E-74 failure straight to them!
post #102 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by xyko View Post

It does not matter what Microsoft does or who they hire, they will still be Microsoft. They consume and destroy. Even when they hire Apple employees and execs they still get it wrong because everything has to go through bland Microsoft execs, not the artistic visionaries at Apple. Everything Microsoft creates emulates its former CEO (Bill Gates), no personality, bland, tasteless, unimaginative, etc.

As for Microsoft innovating, that is laughable, they can't even emulate properly [Zune]. Microsoft is always trying to tell us that they innovate instead of emulate. If this isn't emulation, I don't know what is. Microsoft stores intentionally placed near Apple stores, former apple exec hired to design stores. Yeah they totally don't copy Apple. Once again, ZERO personality.

Mmm... Maybe MS cut a deal like BestBuy & will sell Apple products in its stores
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post #103 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlux View Post

I'd love to see an 'enhanced' version of the included image, with a homeless guy pushing his loaded Ghettebago in the general direction of the bathroom. After a refreshing sink-bath he can pay for a copy of Windows Homeless Edition using a large bag of aluminum cans.

ROFLOL... really!
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post #104 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by iReality85 View Post

Exactly. After reading the comments in this thread... just disturbing... it's clear that some are simply miffed at the mere thought that a former Apple employee- one that contributed much to the company's success in advertising and brand recognition over the past decade- is now working for the other side: the eeeeeevil Microsoft. OMG, and Microsoft might just benefit from having his expertise in the same way that Apple did! Now, that's sure to further ruffle the fanboys' feathers too.

I feel you read the posts too seriously. If I say "I think he should burn", it doesn't take a genius to realize that given an opportunity and a lit match I probably wouldn't actually set him on fire.

If you read between the lines I'm actually poking fun at people like you who think we are all fanboy's that would set upon a non believer like some weird freakish sect.

We are actually quite normal people,

Cast off your beige cladding, drink the coolade and join us...
post #105 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post

My opinion is that Apple just became too greedy and elitist.
In the end what most people want is 'cheap'. Give me cheap any time over quality.
That's why Betamax lost to VHS
That's why 8-tracks lost to the compact cassette.
That's why Apple lost to PCs.
And that's why millions of US and European jobs got lost to China.

You're right. I guess that's why BMW and Audi lost to GM, and why Rolex lost to Casio.
post #106 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by LE Studios View Post

This is part of the reason that financial advisor advised investors to sell Microsoft stock fast! This retail store chain is what going to finish them off! I don't care if they got the Apple Store blueprint straight from Steve Jobs himself. If Microsoft cannot make a stable and secure operating system then how well they can do as storefront. Everything Microsoft been selling has been is a MSRP meaning no discounts so don't expect to go to get Windows 7 at a discount. Then what do Microsoft have to show? Xbox 360, Zune, Microsoft Windows and Office? The one thing Microsoft cannot copy from another company is integrity. I wish they would open a store here in Houston, I send everybody who has a a 360 with RROD or the New E-74 failure straight to them!

Totally off-topic, but how do you like your LED display? I've got a 24-inch Samsung TOC display myself, and I love it, but seeing that 24-inch LED display in the Apple Store the other day made me drool all over the counter. It looked absolutely stunning.

On-topic:

I don't see the point of an MS retail store. At all. They have 87% market penetration, the first thing people see in the comp section at a Best Buy.

Oh wait. It's BECAUSE they have 87% penetration (down from 97%) and they want to repair their image and look "cool" and sophisticated, even though their lousy OS runs on every piece of junkware known to man.

I think shipping products people actually WANT might serve them better in the long run.
post #107 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post

You will find many posts as to why Apple lost to Microsoft. The Internet is full of analyses.

My opinion is that Apple just became too greedy and elitist.
In the end what most people want is 'cheap'. Give me cheap any time over quality.
That's why Betamax lost to VHS
That's why 8-tracks lost to the compact cassette.
That's why Apple lost to PCs.
And that's why millions of US and European jobs got lost to China.

People are obsessed with 'deals' - yet unable to understand the full and long-term repercussions.
So people effectively constantly make wrong decisions. Which seem like a good idea at the time.

It all comes out in the wash, my friend. Except Apple lost the desktop battle, but is winning the tech war. You don't need to sell your product to everyone and their dog to make an impact and change the game. And we're seeing more and more people understand that paying more today will ultimately get you greater returns in the long run.
post #108 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

Since the emergence of PC video screens being mounted vertically and used to display flight information at airports, I've chuckled on several occasions when I've seen the display boards showing the Blue Screen Of Death.

Just think, Microsoft is going to give us a whole store to display that.....should be lovely!

many of those large aiport displays are run by Mac Pros
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post #109 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post

You will find many posts as to why Apple lost to Microsoft. The Internet is full of analyses.

My opinion is that Apple just became too greedy and elitist.

I knew Apple at the beginning... they were always greedy and elitist. And those are attributes that were responsible for their success. Apple set out to make a profit and to build products that people wanted [to buy].

Competitors, of the day, were mainly hobbyists, who found themselves in business. But they were more driven by the technology than by the "business" of technology (e.g. to stay in business).

Quote:
In the end what most people want is 'cheap'. Give me cheap any time over quality.
That's why Betamax lost to VHS

I think it had a lot more to do with recording capacity-- you couldn't record most movies on a single BetaMax tape and you had to be there to switch the tape.

Quote:
That's why 8-tracks lost to the compact cassette.

Here, convenience was the reason... how many 8-track cartridges could you slip into your shirt (or Jeans) pocket?

Quote:
That's why Apple lost to PCs.
And that's why millions of US and European jobs got lost to China.

Those two topics have a lot more factors driving them than just quality vs price.

For example, a large part of the success of the PC was due to its acceptance by the business world. And, that had a lot more to do with the logo on the [original] box: the IBM/PC.

As for jobs lost to China: China makes both Macs and Dells, so were the jobs lost to "quality" or "cheap". Maybe it has something to do with the manufacturing environment (infrastructure, unions and wages, regulations, ecology, etc.).

Quote:
People are obsessed with 'deals' - yet unable to understand the full and long-term repercussions.
So people effectively constantly make wrong decisions. Which seem like a good idea at the time.

Often, price is the only consideration: you need something and price means the difference between having something or nothing.

If you have the advantage of being able to spend more for quality, it may very well cost less over the long run (usability, productivity, maintenance, resale). Then, there is the satisfaction of owning and using and enjoying a quality product.
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post #110 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I can tell you from having had a company that sold some of its products through dealers, that you NEVER undercut your distributers and dealers. They get mad. Real mad. They even stop carrying your products. I never did that, but I know others who did. Not good. Even MS isn't immune from this.

I have first hand experience with Microsoft doing exactly this... except much worse.

Microsoft promoted a future product and offered discounts and special priority treatment, if you signed up in advance through any of their dealers (no pre-pay, no deposit). When the product first became available for sale, it didn't make it down the supply cain to the dealers. For the first month or so, the product was only available by direct purchase from Microsoft. In fact, several of our customers told us they were contacted directly by Microsoft (using information from the dealer signup). By the time we got our [large] dealer shipment, many of our signups had already purchased directly from Microsoft.

I guess "special priority treatment" meant bypass the retailer... I never trusted Microsoft again!
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post #111 of 136
So, if I am a Windows user, what is my incentive to go to one of these Microsoft stores ?

...if I want to buy software and/or accessories, I'll go to BestBuy or use NewEgg.

...since they will not be selling PCs at the Microsoft stores, I'll go to BestBuy or use NewEgg to buy a PC.

...if I bought a PC from BestBuy, I'll go to BestBuy with any questions and/or service that I may need for that PC...or even return it

...the same applies if I were to buy an XBox or Zune...
post #112 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwik View Post

Microsoft would better spend its time buying influence in Washington, since a lot of federal money is being handed out. New contracts, "broadband," etc.

Also, MS ought to be engaging in investment hedge funding kind of like top universities do. Windows is a great legal shelter for the extraction of society's wealth. MSFT should cement its power through finance. The reality is, MSFT software is not the real story. MS is a marketing and legal innovator. To that, it should add "financial." This is a great time for them to invest, perhaps through a subsidiary Microsoft Capital. This is something they could do to actually make money. To just sit around and tweak their billing and licensing for years and years is just lazy, and it's a mountain whose summit they have reached.

Interesting take! With their track record, they should offer mortgages, mortgage guarantees, and maybe derivatives...

Think of the possibilities:

-- General Microsoft Acceptance Corporation

-- MicroWide Finance

-- FannyMic [sp]
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post #113 of 136
I know, I know, don't feed the trolls...

Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post

OK. I forgot. They have the AppleTV and a 1 button mouse.

So, you ARE an uninformed shill probably getting paid by M$ to post FUD on an Apple rumors site!

Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post

Microsoft's OS margins are not even close to paper thin. They make a very good margin on it.

So Microsoft is hosing it's customers huh? I knew that they were way over priced... you should try out Apple, you get what you pay for with them.

I don't get people that go online, search for a web site about something they know little about, but still hate, then register and start commenting about how much so and so sucks.
The only thing I can think of is either low self esteem (attention) or they are being paid to do so.
post #114 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Hey iPhone guy, get over yourself. Notice that Mel has not taken you to task about your spelling. You could take some class lessons from him.

One could see this coming a mile away from iPhone1982......
post #115 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

If they don't do very well at this, it will be seen as a failure.

That's some great insight!
post #116 of 136
No matter what you guys say, this will be good for Microsoft. It's been incredibly successful for Apple already.

I think the key element here is showing people what a Windows PC is capable of. So many people are completely oblivious to the potential their computer has, or they are unaware of easier methods of performing everyday tasks.
post #117 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilco View Post

That's some great insight!

Not doing very well does not necessarily mean "failure."

But the fact they are obviously aping Apple's model (and that they apparently want to set up locations right next to Apple Stores) sets them up for exactly that conclusion.
post #118 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post


I think the key element here is showing people what a Windows PC is capable of. So many people are completely oblivious to the potential their computer has, or they are unaware of easier methods of performing everyday tasks.

That's funny.
post #119 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post

I would apologize if you had put a source reference in your Article.

If you don't post a source or any information where you pulled the information from, you could have pulled the information from anywhere. If it was a reputable site I could have done my own research without pointing out your flaws to the article.

Apology is now in order.

Fine we are all waiting for your Apology!
post #120 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by LE Studios View Post

What do Microsoft have to show?

It's the fatal flaw in Microsoft's overall business model. Since their business is built around partners, mostly computer OEMs, how do they showcase their own products without offending or cannibalizing the sales of their partners? Have a shelf of software, Zune and XBox tables, and a wall of keyboards and mouses? Any "ideal" Windows system simultaneously declares other systems "less than ideal". So who chooses that ideal? They could sell off the rights as a marketing opportunity -- at the risk of trumpeting a lame system and driving away more potential buyers. Do they stock XBox games and risk a rift (or price war) with game retailers? Maybe some annointed gaming and computer accessories? Again, unlike Apple, they risk hurting far more hardware partners.

I understand Microsoft's desire to do *something* in the face of stiffer competition on all fronts, but I have to wonder: What were they thinking when they decided on stores? Maybe the "Fire up your copiers" comments really aren't exaggerations: "Well, Apple has stores, and they do well. We should have stores!" [headdesk]
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