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Worker commits suicide after iPhone prototype goes missing - reports - Page 2

post #41 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by AjitMD View Post

Apple needs to quit making its products overseas.

I fully agree. My Apple SE proudly says "Made in U.S.A." and it was made well; it still works. Why would we not be able to do this any more?

The current policy of laying people off in the USA and produce in low-wage countries is a dead-end street. I wish that Apple would play a model role here and put the "Made in U.S.A." sticker back on their products.
post #42 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

That's what I'm asking though - for any hit to be made up in the long run, there must be some sales that are lost today as a result of what they are going to "fix." So what sales are they losing in the short run, and who are they losing them to?

True. They haven't lost any sales yet. But this isn't going to be the last story about Apple and abuses in China. I'm suggesting that Apple jump out in front of the issue, and at least give people a sense that they're taking action, even if that action is ultimately futile.

Someone is trying to pressure Apple into doing something. The same way Greenpeace kept hounding Apple, even though its practices on environmental issues were no worse than other manufacturers. It was complete nonsense, and yet Apple was eventually inspired to respond. I have no idea if sales were actually hurting because of Greenpeace. I'm willing to bet they weren't. But now Apple gets to say "the world's greenest notebooks" in its ads.

I'm just saying there's something to be won in at least the appearance of caring. It's an X factor that you can't quantify, but it does make a difference.
post #43 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjoec123 View Post

I agree with you, but it's not that simple. If we were to change our tax laws, and companies stopped building things in China, China would simply call in that gigantic debt we owe them. It's too late now to stop doing business with China altogether.

I would prefer to suck it up and change the tax laws to favor investment and manufacturing here in the US. If the Chinese cash it their US debt is fine with me... they are going to do it sooner or later. I am sure Uncle Benny at the Fed can issue a $T worth of paper money to the Chinese.

The trade agreements are really lopsided to the US... both WTO and NAFTA. Now that China is spending huge amounts of money for windmills, and photo electricity, they are using regulations to keep US companies from selling the products. Their excuse is that WTO does not apply to the government controlled electric utilities.

This rip off the American jobs, capital and technology got to end. A lot of this tech, basic research was developed at the expense of the US taxpayer, including the microchip, robots, LCDs, LEDs, etc. My experience has been that US goods are much better built. Back in 1960s, my parents bought a GE electric iron to press clothes... it lasted till the mid 1980s and my mother go rid of it because the electric cord got worn out. I bought a plasticky GE electric iron and it lasted barely 3 years. Same with the junk tools that I buy these days... the wrenches crack or strip the nuts... I still have my US made tools that I bought in the early 1980s.

I would rather pay more for quality US products like clothes, appliances, etc that last a long time... instead of Chinese junk stuff. I have to keep on telling the wife not to buy this cheap junk. Any doctors or surgeons in the house? I am getting tired of cheap Chinese or even Indian disposable surgical instruments. Hospitals prefer those to reusable hi quality US or even German instruments that have to be autoclaved.
post #44 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roos24 View Post

I fully agree. My Apple SE proudly says "Made in U.S.A." and it was made well; it still works. Why would we not be able to do this any more?

The current policy of laying people off in the USA and produce in low-wage countries is a dead-end street. I wish that Apple would play a model role here and put the "Made in U.S.A." sticker back on their products.

Frankly, I don't want to go back to paying $14,000 for a Mac again,
post #45 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by AjitMD View Post

I would prefer to suck it up and change the tax laws to favor investment and manufacturing here in the US. If the Chinese cash it their US debt is fine with me... they are going to do it sooner or later. I am sure Uncle Benny at the Fed can issue a $T worth of paper money to the Chinese.

Boy would it be nice if people who didn't understand economics would not try to talk about it...

Suffice to say that if that happened, you'd find yourself out of a job and in the middle of the greatest of all great depressions.
post #46 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanhauer View Post

Umm, he didn't "lose" his life... he "took" his own life which is a cowardly way out. Many people go through horrible experiences in their life. Killing yourself over a lost iPhone or even losing your job, becoming homeless etc aren't reasons to kill yourself.

You really think taking your life is the easy way out? Cowardly even? Go easy on the poor fella, it takes more guts to go his way. Cowards would not go through with it. I am certain that you or me would not have the guts to go through with it, but then we the lucky sods get to play on our apple products, and if we messed up at work we are not going to get beaten/threatened.
post #47 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by roehlstation View Post

Frankly, I don't want to go back to paying $14,000 for a Mac again,

Don't buy the current mac pro then :P

I would not mind paying more if the QA went up to be honest.
post #48 of 177
Jumping out a window? There is an app for that.
post #49 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

The labels have become interchangeable of late, but Communism is the exact opposite of Capitalism. What China is today (despite the labels), is pretty much the exact definition of Fascism.

It's kind of ironic in a way for those of us old enough to remember the last century (and any students of history). Half the world fought a war to end the Fascist take over of Europe and people are still pilloried and even jailed today for daring to write a swastika on a wall or maintain that the Fascists were anything but purest evil.

Yet today the largest pure fascist state in the world (China) is dealt with like a "good partner" by the same countries that fought that war. Quite an incredible turn of events really but it says more about the demonisation of the Germans than it does about Fascism per se.

Precisely. I believe China is potentially the most dangerous force in the world today, if you look beyond the more immediate threats. Over a billion people living with few human rights, being fed into the most gigantic economic shredder ever conceived. Compared to the period of notorious uber-capitalism of the late 19th century in the US, the scale of what is going on in China today staggers the mind -- especially when you consider that they have no political system to mitigate excesses. I wonder where it will end, what it will come to. I have a bad feeling about it.
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post #50 of 177
Very sad story but I am not suprised. China is an evil dictatorship with a shocking record on human/worker rights.

Apple uses companies like Foxconn because they are cheap and we all gasp when these abuses are exposed. Apple could stop this. If Apple put their own people into Foxcon to monitor the situation they wouldn't get away with paying wages below the national minimum or bullying people to death.

Or better still why doesn't Apple 'think different' and start a change by building their own factory and employing workers directly?

Foxconn will probably get away with little or no penalty by bribing local officials, so it is up to companies like Apple to take a stance.
post #51 of 177
I feel sorry for the family of this worker. It is very sad to hear of such an incident, however Apple is not be be blamed.

The rumor mills masquerading as tech journalists may be responsible for this unfortunate accident. Whoever took the phone was not going to use it, that is for sure. He or she, whoever the thief may be, is going to sell the info to these rats that want to find information before it is time.

It could even be worse. Another iPhone wannabe might also want to buy it to know what Apple is working on. Apple should make sure that Foxconn increases its security in light of this.

My 6th sense tells me that Microsoft paid for the missing piece.
post #52 of 177
Oh please.
This has nothing to do with Apple or Communism or Capitalism.
Although it'd probably be best if someone familiar with the Chinese corporate mentality could comment, I'm guessing we Asians share enough for me to make an educated guess.

1. The employee
Someone in charge of multiple new iPhone prototypes is NOT some poor minimum-wage lackey. To be given such a huge responsibility at the tender age of 25 probably means he's (was) an executive (or at least a candidate) with a bright future.

2. Foxcomm's response and apology
What would any corporation in any nation do if a vital top secret item went missing? Search every nook and cranny and try to find out who might have taken it. Hence the interrogation and house search. Foxcomm apologized because it lost a vital item under its care and was unable to successfully recover it

3. The suicide
This is the part that you westerners will find hard to understand. Since very few of us are Christian or Muslim or any of the religions that forbid suicide, taking ones own life is still considered the most honorable way to take responsibility for a failing of any kind, especially in the corporate world.

Conjecture: The iPhone was stolen by a jealous coworker and will soon turn up somewhere.
(As you can probably guess, I make a living by reading works of fiction...)
post #53 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by MH01 View Post

Don't buy the current mac pro then :P

I would not mind paying more if the QA went up to be honest.

Really? My Mac Pro did not cost any where near what my IIfx cost.

So many people like to over-simplify the "just bring the jobs back here" thing, the cost of a Mac Mini would probably jump to somewhere in the $2-4K range if we were to build all the components for that computer in this country. All the boards, chipsets, harddrives, cases...nothing exists here to allow that to happen, we'd have to build it from scratch and that is going to be reflected in the cost of the product. Everyone has gotten used to the fact that things aren't all that expensive because of GLOBAL economics, and it is just too bad that so many people simply do not have a grasp on things like that.

Did you know the tax rate of the state of Oregon is Higher than every other country out there except Denmark? That is why companies choose to make a lot of consumer things elsewhere, but this country still manufactures more than ANY other country. By a lot. Our GDP is higher than the next 4 countries combined, all because of what we do still make here.
post #54 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by hezekiahb View Post

Maybe if we can free up the death grip of some of the unions in the US we can move some of these jobs back home.

Is it hard to type with your head stuck so far up your ass?
post #55 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

Yes, it is certainly not communism, as the main goal of communism was to stop the exploitation of workers. Calling China communist is 100% wrong. It does not really meet the definition of fascism either, as the number one characteristic of fascism would be: "Fascists believe that nations and/or races are in perpetual conflict whereby only the strong can survive by being healthy, vital, and by asserting themselves in conflict against the weak." The sheer fact that China is the largest creditor of the USA contradicts the fascism theory (and there are quite a few other things that do not match, e.g. most of the governmental violence targets "own" people). It is a totalitarian state with a high level of corporatism (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpora...an_corporatism) in the industrial areas. Whatever the security of Foxconn has done here, it is nothing the Pinkerton Agency would not have done in the US just a few decades ago (democracy has not stopped these killings either), or others in other parts of the world... it is not directly related to a political or sociological "system".

I realize that the fascist label is imperfect, it's just the only one that seems a close fit. The Chinese government also exploits nationalist sentiments within China when it suits their purposes, which is another classic trait of fascist governments. Fascist states also operate as corporate states, another fit. Even so, I agree -- China today probably deserves an entirely new label.

As I mentioned above, the US had a period of run-amok capitalism, when individual rights were trampled by industry. But the US also had a political system to respond to these excesses, and it did. China has no such system. That is what concerns me.
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post #56 of 177
I can imagine that Apple, who doesn't like their products leaked, put some sort of pressure on Foxcomm, which appears to leaks like a sieve before a new product launch. All those cell phone photos endanger the new product roll outs impact.

I also imagine that, knowing the secrecy obsession, that Foxcomm was under a microscope from Apple for these leaks. This poor schmuck loses a prototype, or has it stolen from him, and foxcomm has to overreact to save its contract.

Also, it looks like the Apple really wants a bang out of the tablet roll out, and I can imagine that this is what was actually lost. Apple with a new form factor for a product would be worth a lot to the clone electronics industry.

This will be an interesting story to watch unfold.
post #57 of 177
Rest in Peace
post #58 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

It was actually an interesting article right up to the point of slipping the "blame Apple" section in there. This is just arrogant tabloid reporting now.

Would just as much attention had been given if this were the prototype for the next Nintendo WII or maybe even the next Harry Potter book?

This isn't even remotely a blame on Apple. Every company demands secrecy from their vendors for unreleased products simply to stay ahead of whatever competition. It's sound business practice.

There is an obvious bias by the reporter to take yet another swipe at Apple.

Now, FoxConn on the other hand should face some kind of retribution for this. It appears that they have used some heavy-handed tactics and went seriously overboard.

The article didn't mention whether the prototype iPhone was ever recovered. Obviously the individual was let go without jailtime since he was able to go up to a roof and jump.

What gives?

It boggles the mind when it comes to the defense of Apple by the fanboys. It seems to be ok for Apple to do what it does whether it is the deceptions by Jobs or ignoring the plight of the workers that are contracted through these manufacturing companies. I guess we will hear the same old refrains of everyone else does it, or what about this technicality or they are Apple and therefore god. I for one am becoming disenchanted with Apple and the way they act.
post #59 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

The real story here isn't Apple secrecy, or the guy jumping off a building -- it's capitalism, Chinese style. None dare call it fascism.

Corporatism is a more accurate term for fascism.

It is amazing how one company (Foxconn) can have so much power.

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post #60 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizwarrior View Post

It boggles the mind when it comes to the defense of Apple by the fanboys. It seems to be ok for Apple to do what it does whether it is the deceptions by Jobs or ignoring the plight of the workers that are contracted through these manufacturing companies. I guess we will hear the same old refrains of everyone else does it, or what about this technicality or they are Apple and therefore god. I for one am becoming disenchanted with Apple and the way they act.

Almost as amazing as how often the term "fanboy" gets thrown around.
post #61 of 177
I wonder if they used the bamboo under the finger nail torture, or the water drip on your forehead torture.
post #62 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Precisely. I believe China is potentially the most dangerous force in the world today, if you look beyond the more immediate threats. Over a billion people living with few human rights, being fed into the most gigantic economic shredder ever conceived. Compared to the period of notorious uber-capitalism of the late 19th century in the US, the scale of what is going on in China today staggers the mind -- especially when you consider that they have no political system to mitigate excesses. I wonder where it will end, what it will come to. I have a bad feeling about it.

I agree with you about the 'bad feeling.'

But the undeniable issue is, the Chinese do lead much better lives today than they did a couple of decades ago. And much of it is thanks to manufacturing being outsourced to China, and to world trade. What is your alternative prescription for how these billion+ people should lead better lives?
post #63 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjoec123 View Post

I agree with you, but it's not that simple. If we were to change our tax laws, and companies stopped building things in China, China would simply call in that gigantic debt we owe them. It's too late now to stop doing business with China altogether.

Just a little perspective, 60% of the debt is owned by Americans and American Institutions, 40% is owned by outside Sovereign nations of that 8% is owned by China. America is still the largest, most efficient manufacturer in the world. The key is a strong dollar maintained by governmental policies. Having said that I also wish Apple manufactured its products in the US. If Toyota, Honda and Nissan can do it. Apple should be able to negotiate favorable terms with individual states.

At a minimum Apple should suspend all relationships with Foxconn post haste because of this incident and make other arrangements.
post #64 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwingrav View Post

Pet peeve of mine...

Communism is a form of government which chooses economic policies to achieve its philosophy. Capitalism is an economic system. Fascism is explicitly a mix of government and economics. China is an odd case since it is a communist government with an extreme form of capitalism but only in limited markets.

Yes, I am aware it says Capitalism is a social system in Wikipedia. It is wrong.

You are right, but you are being very purist. Capitalism as an economic system pretty much controls any underlying social system, I'd argue.
post #65 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I agree with you about the 'bad feeling.'

But the undeniable issue is, the Chinese do lead much better lives today than they did a couple of decades ago. And much of it is thanks to manufacturing being outsourced to China, and to world trade. What is your alternative prescription for how these billion+ people should lead better lives?

You agree with me about something? Hold the presses!

Yes, some Chinese do lead better lives today, but many don't, especially in the rural areas where the government has reduced spending on education and health care, in order to drive more workers into the cities. The working conditions in the cities are very poor -- workers are effectively warehoused, and when they can't keep up with the pace and the conditions, they are fired. More are available to take their places. It's a brutal system.

My alternative prescription to authoritarianism is a lack of authoritarianism. Democracy would be the prescription. An ability of people to protect themselves from exploitation.
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post #66 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I agree with you about the 'bad feeling.'

But the undeniable issue is, the Chinese do lead much better lives today than they did a couple of decades ago. And much of it is thanks to manufacturing being outsourced to China, and to world trade. What is your alternative prescription for how these billion+ people should lead better lives?

Do you even have to ask?

Democracy!

People who don't know history or economics are doomed to sound clueless when talking about international trade.
post #67 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Do you even have to ask?

Democracy!

Told ya

Now ask him what we should all do when the people vote to continue the explosive growth policies that have gotten them so many gains in the past 30 years.
post #68 of 177
I think its time Apple bring its production facilities back to the US. Give the US workers much needed jobs, bring back made in the US. I'm sure Apple would get some massive tax breaks if they wanted to do so. And I'm not blaming Apple for this. It just seems like Apple is having all kinds of issues now days.

I do feel bad for the worker. I mean what if he really did just misplace it and doesn't know where it is. Killing yourself over something so silly. Almost not worth the job.....

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post #69 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Precisely. I believe China is potentially the most dangerous force in the world today, if you look beyond the more immediate threats. Over a billion people living with few human rights, being fed into the most gigantic economic shredder ever conceived. Compared to the period of notorious uber-capitalism of the late 19th century in the US, the scale of what is going on in China today staggers the mind -- especially when you consider that they have no political system to mitigate excesses. I wonder where it will end, what it will come to. I have a bad feeling about it.

Gee, except that the Chinese people are happier than ever and 74% like the current free enterprise system backed by strong government regulation and 86% like the direction the country is going.

The primary areas of (economic) discontent is with corruption driven economic disparity. Something the party is not unaware of given that's how the CCP got into power in the first place.

If there's something those guys understand is how corrupt capitalists get overthrown by "socalists" and are looking to mitigate these problems in as much as their necks depend on it.

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=261
post #70 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by crees! View Post

Waiting for the "blame Apple crowd" to show.

Damn straight I'll blame Apple. A vendor pulling a stunt like this doesn't happen in a vacuum. That company had already been "deficient" in the past, and Apple - instead of finding another company - decided to believe their bullshit stories and now - oops - is that blood on my iPhone?

Why YES - yes it is.

Stay classy Apple indeed. Isn't there a nice company in Singapore or Taiwan available right about now, or do you want to continue to use a company that seems to regard itself a high-tech prison camp?

And to the corporate apologists, perhaps you could take a lead from this young man's example and take a flying leap.
post #71 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A 25-year-old man reportedly committed suicide after an iPhone prototype he was responsible for went missing, leading to alleged "unbearable interrogation techniques" in the ensuing investigation, according to a Chinese publication.

How does a 25 year old man in Chine become responsible for an iPhone prototype? How are these prototypes protected? If these units are so top secret how come they are not gps enabled? I mean, I hate the idea of a 25 year old coming under so much pressure he feels the only way out is to jump out a window but how senior could this guy be at that age?
post #72 of 177
Unions are the reason things in the US aren't like they are in China. Sure, there are greedy Unions, but on a whole it is not their fault the economy is in the mess it is in. Greed on the part of manufacturers is the reason the jobs left. The eighties were the greatest economic time our Country has ever seen. Things were made here then. The manufacturers used some of their increased wealthy to pay off Congress to get so called free trade agreements passed so not only did foreign built products not have to pay importation taxes, but also so slave labor could be used. The companies were making money before the manufacturing went overseas. Now they are making far more money, just at the expense of our Countries values.

It is not possible for American workers to compete with workers who have no voice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hezekiahb View Post

Seriously, people don't seem to understand that capitalism on communism is like lipstick on a pig.

Maybe if we can free up the death grip of some of the unions in the US we can move some of these jobs back home.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for workers having some sort of representation to make sure they don't get screwed by corporations, but some of the demands of these union managers are just to line their own pockets & don't get anything for the worker.
post #73 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

I think its time Apple bring its production facilities back to the US. Give the US workers much needed jobs, bring back made in the US. I'm sure Apple would get some massive tax breaks if they wanted to do so. And I'm not blaming Apple for this. It just seems like Apple is having all kinds of issues now days.

So you're saying the government should be paying the workers' salary to move them back to the USA? Doesn't sound very capitalistic. (That IS what taxbreaks for jobs equal).
post #74 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorBenway View Post

And to the corporate apologists, perhaps you could take a lead from this young man's example and take a flying leap.

I love it when people take, and hold, the moral high ground.
post #75 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

So you're saying the government should be paying the workers' salary to move them back to the USA? Doesn't sound very capitalistic. (That IS what taxbreaks for jobs equal).

So we should keep jobs overseas and leave US citizens looking for jobs? You do know millions of jobs have been shipped overseas right?

The tax breaks would be to build the facilities like Apple got for building a data center in NC. Not a tax break for paying for the salaries/benefits of US workers. Of course they would still be up to Apple to provide.

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post #76 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalMacRat View Post

Like any good leader, Steve Jobs flew to China to throw him out the window to set an example.

I know it's not right, but...

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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GOA

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post #77 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Unions are the reason things in the US aren't like they are in China. Sure, there are greedy Unions, but on a whole it is not their fault the economy is in the mess it is in. Greed on the part of manufacturers is the reason the jobs left. The eighties were the greatest economic time our Country has ever seen. Things were made here then. The manufacturers used some of their increased wealthy to pay off Congress to get so called free trade agreements passed so not only did foreign built products not have to pay importation taxes, but also so slave labor could be used. The companies were making money before the manufacturing went overseas. Now they are making far more money, just at the expense of our Countries values.

It is not possible for American workers to compete with workers who have no voice.

FYI: 7 out of 8 US workers are not unionized. (In the private sector, 9 out of 10 are non-union).
post #78 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

So we should keep jobs overseas and leave US citizens looking for jobs? You do know millions of jobs have been shipped overseas right?

The average person is better off because of international trade. Some are made worse off, but many more are made better off. So yes, we should keep jobs overseas and leave unskilled US citizens looking for jobs (or hopefully, looking for and obtaining the skills to get better jobs).

Quote:
The tax breaks would be to build the facilities like Apple got for building a data center in NC. Not a tax break for paying for the salaries/benefits of US workers. Of course they would still be up to Apple to provide.

I find your cognitive dissonance in this matter impressive.
post #79 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

The average person is better off because of international trade. Some are made worse off, but many more are made better off. So yes, we should keep jobs overseas and leave unskilled US citizens looking for jobs (or hopefully, looking for and obtaining the skills to get better jobs).



I find your cognitive dissonance in this matter impressive.

I'm glad you don't run anything with our country.... Your thinking is the prime reason we are in the position were in today.... But whatever...moving on.....

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post #80 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

So we should keep jobs overseas and leave US citizens looking for jobs? You do know millions of jobs have been shipped overseas right?

The tax breaks would be to build the facilities like Apple got for building a data center in NC. Not a tax break for paying for the salaries/benefits of US workers. Of course they would still be up to Apple to provide.

Pre-recession, the unemployment rate in the US has hovered between 4% and 6% - i.e., about 95% of the people looking for work in the US have generally found it. (Currently the rate is close to 10%, but that is because of the economic slowdown.)

How does outsourcing explain that?
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