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Education, business markets lag for Apple

post #1 of 68
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While the consumer market continues to shine for Apple, bringing the company to another record quarter, sales in the education and professional markets have suffered for the Mac maker during the ongoing economic recession.

Apple COO Tim Cook revealed during Tuesday's earnings report conference call that Mac sales in both the U.S. education and business markets have slowed due to budget constraints in both sectors.

In overall educational sales, Apple was down 6 percent. Cook said grades kindergarten through 12 fared worse, while higher education sales in colleges were about even with the same period a year prior.

Cook said things could turn around for Mac purchases in the educational sector when federal economic stimulus funds make their way down to individual schools. However, the executive said he is not confident that will happen in the coming September quarter.

"The U.S. K-12 institutional business is weak," Cook said. "As you might expect, and its getting hit by budget shortfalls, and last quarter we saw very negligible amount, if any, of the stimulus funds flow all the way to the state and district levels to get spent. So that may or may not occur this quarter."

Meanwhile, commercial and small business accounts are delaying purchases on new Macs, in an attempt to pinch pennies wherever they can. No specific data on business accounts was provided.

However, Cook said iPhone sales in the corporate, government and educational sectors are showing positive signs. Sales have been excellent with small businesses and large organizations that allow people to purchase phones for individual use.

The COO added almost 20 percent of Fortune 100 companies have purchased 10,000 iPhones or more, and over 300 higher education institutions have approved the device. Multiple corporations and government agencies have purchased more than 25,000 units.

Some schools, such as the University of Florida's PharmD program, have taken to requiring the iPhone or iPod touch for class.

"We think that we are just at the tip of the iceberg," Cook said, "in terms of what the iPhone can do with the business customer."
post #2 of 68
Well I guess you can't have it both ways. You can't offer premium products at premium prices and try to appeal to public schools at the same time. I mean does BMW or Mercedes Benz supply our schools with cars for driver's education? I suspect Dell must be the leader in education based on their low prices.

As for the iPhone- shouldn't that be penetrating at a higher rate than 20% by now as compared to market share?

As for the U of Fl line - that's appears as if dropped in from an different article entirely. Note how the article then shifts right back to business. Cook is not adressing that. One school and one department program is not something I'd exactly brag about.What other schools are requiring iPhone or Touches for classes anyway? I'm curious.
post #3 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Well I guess you can't have it both ways. You can't offer premium products at premium prices and try to appeal to public schools at the same time. I mean does BMW or Mercedes Benz supply our schools with cars for driver's education?

Well I think if they were serious, they'd go back to the strategy they used to have of selling discounted models specifically for education clients - ie. eMac, 17" iMac etc.
post #4 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Well I guess you can't have it both ways. You can't offer premium products at premium prices and try to appeal to public schools at the same time. I mean does BMW or Mercedes Benz supply our schools with cars for driver's education?

Well Mercedes does provide school busses. Does that count?
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post #5 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

Well I think if they were serious, they'd go back to the strategy they used to have of selling discounted models specifically for education clients - ie. eMac, 17" iMac etc.

With or without a glossy screen? (just kidding!)
post #6 of 68
I wasn't aware Dell was the leader in education sales???? Or is this just Techstudian math?

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post #7 of 68
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Originally Posted by bigdaddyp View Post

Well Mercedes does provide school busses. Does that count?

True- And I'm sure lots of faculty and deans use Macs.
post #8 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

I wasn't aware Dell was the leader in education sales???? Or is this just Techstudian math?

I meant to say I suspect- I said based on the low pricing.
So then, you who must know so much-tell us , who is?
post #9 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

Well I think if they were serious, they'd go back to the strategy they used to have of selling discounted models specifically for education clients - ie. eMac, 17" iMac etc.

Apple has a 20" educational iMac (Aluminum) for $800. The MacBook is also around $800. Plus if you order a bunch, Apple will discount the already discounted price. Plus, if you're just updating the computer part, you can always get MacMini's for less than $700.

Plain and simple, schools are just poor these days.

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post #10 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I meant to say I suspect- I said based on the low pricing.
So then, you who must know so much-tell us , who is?

That would ummm....Apple! Believe it or not...Yes, its Apple! Go figure!

Just because they're lagging in sales, doesn't mean they're not #1. Toyota's sales are lagging too...that doesn't mean they're not #1 in automotive sales.

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post #11 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

That would ummm....Apple! Believe it or not...Yes, its Apple! Go figure!

Link please.
post #12 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

Just because they're lagging in sales, doesn't mean they're not #1. Toyota's sales are lagging too...that doesn't mean they're not #1 in automotive sales.

Then I find it rather interesting that the article doesn't mention what you write. Why wasn't that mentioned? Seems a rather important fact to me.
post #13 of 68
Show me a link that proves it wrong....

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post #14 of 68
until someone can give us some proven facts, can we stop shooting off at the mouth?

Pepsi is the #1 supplier of tampons to mice. Find you a link that proves it? NO, YOU find me a link that proves it WRONG! dERrrrrrr
post #15 of 68
Wasn't there a news piece recently about Apple's strong showing in education?

In any case, institutional budget cuts are institutional budget cuts. It's a recession, after all, and the comsumer market is an entirely different beast.

If our academic insitutions aren't investing in Macs, the students and faculty certainly are.
post #16 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

Show me a link that proves it wrong....

Not that a disagree with you, but show us a link that proves you right. No one here other than teckstud claimed who the leader was, and his was just an assumption, which I would have the same one. It's not our job to do your research.
post #17 of 68
Not mentioned in article: how other computer companies fared in the corporate and education markets this quarter. But having no basis for comparison won't stop some from ordering a prescription for Apple.
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post #18 of 68
I could be wrong... but I seem to recall AAPL recently discontinued providing a discount to individual (students/parents) buyers unless they're college students, faculty members (any school), or making a large purchase for a school. Example... I have one in high school and one in middle school; previously I could make a purchase based on either of them being a K-12 student and still get the EDU discount. Since earlier this year, I only see a discount available when purchasing as a college student, faculty member (K-12 or college), or placing an order on behalf of the school itself. Not sure when this changed (it could've happened last fall).

This obviously will impact sales to households with K-12 students and no college students, which I believe is partly to blame for the K-12 sales weakness?
post #19 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Well I guess you can't have it both ways. You can't offer premium products at premium prices and try to appeal to public schools at the same time. I mean does BMW or Mercedes Benz supply our schools with cars for driver's education?

Depends on the TCO of the product.

http://www.cio.com/article/127050/Ei...d_Use_Mac_OS/1

Education build machines are a bit higher for the Mac than for Windows but the prices are more comparable than you might expect.

"Standard Costs[1]
Ø Desktop - $ 2,954 (Windows), $3,254 (Mac)
Ø Laptop - $3,342 (Windows), $3,646 (Mac)"

[1] Based on purchasing data received from Information Technology staff

$300 delta between Macs and PCs...or about 10%.

Given that:

"80 percent of costs in distributed computing environments are incurred after the initial deployment of hardware and software"

http://www.doe.virginia.gov/VDOE/Tec.../TCO-13-18.PDF

The cost of Macs aren't as much an issue as the lack of budgets to buy anything. The study is old and they didn't really talk much about Mac TCO vs PC TCO beyond that $8 per seat were attributable to having Macs.

"The adjustments made to the Complexity and Best Practice elements impacted by the support of the Mac platform did not identify a measurable difference in indirect cost. Based on this analysis, there is less than 1% impact on TCO due to the support of multiple platforms, and thus multiple platforms are not a cost driver."

http://www.doe.virginia.gov/VDOE/Tec.../TCO-19-34.PDF

They, unfortunately, punted on whether a 100% mac install would have been cheaper.
post #20 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post

Not that a disagree with you, but show us a link that proves you right. No one here other than teckstud claimed who the leader was, and his was just an assumption, which I would have the same one. It's not our job to do your research.

Its not my job to do your research either.... There is no recent data...but the latest data I find shows Apple is #1 in sales.

http://9to5mac.com/Apple_beats_Dell

#1 for Europe as well according to the most recent data I find:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...080300408.html

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post #21 of 68
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Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

Its not my job to do your research either....

It's your job to back up something you state as fact - unless you're making it up and can't.
post #22 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

Its not my job to do your research either.... There is no recent data...but the latest data I find shows Apple is #1 in sales.

Show us your dated findings please.
post #23 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

Its not my job to do your research either.... There is no recent data...but the latest data I find shows Apple is #1 in sales.

Fair enough, just don't make statements and claim them as fact unless you have proof to back it up, otherwise it's just speculation.
post #24 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post

Fair enough, just don't make statements and claim them as fact unless you have proof to back it up, otherwise it's just speculation.

Apple is number #1 in laptop sales sold to individuals in higher education but this is something else entirely. If he simply says sales- that could be private sector.
post #25 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Show us your dated findings please.


Well of course there's no recent data...the previous school year just ended...DUHHHHH!!!!! The information I posted from the last school year.

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post #26 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Apple is number #1 in laptop sales sold to individuals in higher education but this is something else entirely. If he simply says sales- that could be private sector.

How so? Education sales are education sales.....

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post #27 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

Well of course there's no recent data...the previous school year just ended...DUHHHHH!!!!!

NO!!! YOU'RE KIDDING!!!
So when exactly are you reading your numbers from - 2001? You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Stop wasting our time.
post #28 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

How so? Education sales are education sales.....

So you made it up then, if you don't know that elementary answer?
post #29 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

NO!!! YOU'RE KIDDING!!!
So when exactly are you reading your numbers from - 2001? You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Stop wasting our time.

No...those are from 2008. Read what I posted. No I know why people hate arguing with you. You can't take the time to read and understand what people tell you. All you want to do is argue.... Far as I'm concerned were done!

If you want to go find an article that proves me wrong..be my guest. Of course...why would anyone want to do that. Arguing and insulting is so much easier!

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post #30 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

So you made it up then, if you don't know that elementary answer?

Exactly. Like you said, "individuals in higher education". That means college students buying computers for themselves. That has nothing to do with high school, middle school, or elementary schools, which is what macxpress doesn't get. And I tend to agree with you about Dell. No, I have no proof, and it is just speculation, but being in a sales position and talking to teachers, primary and secondary schools are leaning more towards the PC's because of initial cost, while these same teachers are buying Macs for their homes. Again, just speculation, but that is my personal experience.
post #31 of 68
This is no surprise with the world recession. We can expect much the same for the rest of 2009 and maybe through 2010. The economic disaster is being dampened by our government's bailouts and policy changes but the carnage continues on.

Apple's Snow Leopard Server edition will have many new features that will entice small businesses and maybe that will boost the business sector for Apple. Here's hoping.
post #32 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

No...those are from 2008. Read what I posted. No I know why people hate arguing with you. You can't take the time to read and understand what people tell you. All you want to do is argue.... Far as I'm concerned were done!

If you want to go find an article that proves me wrong..be my guest. Of course...why would anyone want to do that. Arguing and insulting is so much easier!

Now that's rational.
You mentioned 2008? The article was from 2008? Or the school year was? I thought you said:
Quote:
the previous school year just ended...DUHHHHH!!!!!

You go back and change your posts now with links added and say I didn't read them? Very slick.
post #33 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post

Exactly. Like you said, "individuals in higher education". That means college students buying computers for themselves. That has nothing to do with high school, middle school, or elementary schools, which is what macxpress doesn't get. And I tend to agree with you about Dell. No, I have no proof, and it is just speculation, but being in a sales position and talking to teachers, primary and secondary schools are leaning more towards the PC's because of initial cost, while these same teachers are buying Macs for their homes. Again, just speculation, but that is my personal experience.

And you think Dell is #1? Link please? Don't post things without proof!

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post #34 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post

Exactly. Like you said, "individuals in higher education". That means college students buying computers for themselves. That has nothing to do with high school, middle school, or elementary schools, which is what macxpress doesn't get. And I tend to agree with you about Dell. No, I have no proof, and it is just speculation, but being in a sales position and talking to teachers, primary and secondary schools are leaning more towards the PC's because of initial cost, while these same teachers are buying Macs for their homes. Again, just speculation, but that is my personal experience.

Macpress just want to have an obnoxious argument going. I'm not taking his bait anymore.
The article is discussing sales at school sytems- K-12. These aren't the $$s that kids are spending but the school's themselves- how obvious could that be?
post #35 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Macpress just want to have an obnoxious argument going. I'm not taking his bait anymore.
The article is discussing sales at school sytems- K-12. These aren't the $$s that kids are spending but the school's themselves- how obvious could that be?

Nothing could ever be more obnoxious than you on this forum!

I don't think there's anyone on this forum who would disagree......

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post #36 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

Nothing could ever be more obnoxious than you on this forum!

I don't think there's anyone on this forum who would disagree......

At least I don't make up facts, distort facts, not provide links, and act like a baby like you have all morning.
post #37 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

At least I don't make up facts, distort facts, not provide links, and act like a baby like you have all morning.

You do it all the time...you just don't realize it....

In fact...well you just did it!

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post #38 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

You do it all the time...you just don't realize it....

In fact...well you just did it!

Every forum has to have a Cartman...
post #39 of 68
The problem is that in education you have a certain budget. Here in New York I can get a 1 proccessor 4 core Xeon workstation (yes workstation) with a quadro video card for $1000 through state contract. The equivalent apple would be $2499 or above.

In todays economy with tax payers hounding us to be better with tax payers money of course education sales would go down .

PS I work for a library.
post #40 of 68
Apple should license Mac OS X on any PC out there to boost market share to 90% worldwide!!!

Or at least and to start with on the mode range that Apple does not make, like the UMPC, NetBooks, Tablets, etc.
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