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Final Cut upgrades boast more than 100 new features - Page 2

post #41 of 120
7/23/09 at 10:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neruda View Post

The burning can be done in FCP 7, but I doubt that this would include all of the functionality of dvd authoring that is available through DVDSP . Does it? If not, then the ability to burn Blue ray DVDs should have been added to DVDSP

Maybe Apple is working on a new application (Disk Studio Pro) to replace DVD Studio Pro that will let us author DVD and Blu-ray disks. This would move FCS 3 to FCS 3.5 and would happen after the Mac Pro gets a hardware refresh, offering us a Blu-ray disk as a CTO option.
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post #42 of 120
7/23/09 at 10:44am
Nah, Apple has been showing obvious signs of becoming luke warm towards authoring video on DVD. Apple won't release any major new applications for it.

Apple has added publishing directly to YouTube, MobileMe, and the iPhone right in Final Cut Pro. This shows what direction Apple is headed in. Publishing video to the web is more convenient, cheaper, and easier than authoring and burning DVD's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by troberts View Post

Maybe Apple is working on a new application (Disk Studio Pro) to replace DVD Studio Pro that will let us author DVD and Blu-ray disks. This would move FCS 3 to FCS 3.5 and would happen after the Mac Pro gets a hardware refresh, offering us a Blu-ray disk as a CTO option.
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post #43 of 120
7/23/09 at 10:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevinneal View Post

I like the way the screenshots now have glare on them to simulate how glossy apples screens are now

I think it's to compensate for UI that hasn't changed much since the 1999 version. It's the only app on my Mac that feels like Mac OS 9 app.

Lack of native AVCHD is a big disappointment, as with lack of 64-bit and still crummy browser window.
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post #44 of 120
7/23/09 at 10:53am
I don't know why they did not include it natively. My guess would be AVCHD is a consumer format that is not supported on any professional video camera.

It is 64 bit.

The basic layout of all professional nonlinear editing systems have been basically the same for nearly 20 years. What do you expect them to do differently? What makes you think most editors want it to change?

Quote:
Originally Posted by filburt View Post

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Lack of native AVCHD is a big disappointment, as with lack of 64-bit and still crummy browser window.
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post #45 of 120
7/23/09 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neruda View Post

And what the hell ever happened to the successor to Shake?

From Ron Brinkman, one of the original Shake designers who worked at Apple:

"I really cant say much about where Apple may or may not be going with future products. Although the fact that I decided it was time to move on might be a reasonable clue as to my confidence level that any alleged next generation tool will be focused on the market (high end vfx and animation) that Im interested in And why Im now working with The Foundry on Nuke"

I would say there will never be a successor to Shake. Nuke, on the other hand, is going through the roof, and is quickly becoming the industry standard. Since Shake used to be the industry standard, and Apple has allowed it to die on the vine, I would say their interest in competing in this marketplace is zero.
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post #46 of 120
7/23/09 at 10:56am
Still not 64-bit, though. That's ridiculous. Not interested.

(For anyone who doesn't know what that means, it means that no matter how much RAM your computer has, FCP can't use more than about 2 GB of it. Editing HD video with only 2 GB of RAM available is a nightmare.)

Adobe's already got 64-bit editing with Premiere Pro (and Photoshop, and After Effects) on Windows. Apple really needs to do the same.
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post #47 of 120
7/23/09 at 11:18am
Who in their right mind is gonna invest their hard earned dollar in Apple video software anymore ? People complain about Adobe not being Cocoa and 64bit yet Apple is even worse. Motion 4 ? Are you kidding me ? How is that gonna touch in ANY way After Effects ?

I'm sorry but im done wih FINAL CUT STUDIO. Only good app in there is Final Cut and they know it , thats why they bundle it with crap.

export to youtube and mobileme is just an insult.
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post #48 of 120
7/23/09 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wally007 View Post

Who in their right mind is gonna invest their hard earned dollar in Apple video software anymore ? People complain about Adobe not being Cocoa and 64bit yet Apple is even worse. Motion 4 ? Are you kidding me ? How is that gonna touch in ANY way After Effects ?

I'm sorry but im done wih FINAL CUT STUDIO. Only good app in there is Final Cut and they know it , thats why they bundle it with crap.

export to youtube and mobileme is just an insult.

Probably the thousands of editors and producers earning their bread with a FCS workflow.
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post #49 of 120
7/23/09 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Probably the thousands of editors and producers earning their bread with a FCS workflow.


yea and watch it to decline soon. Aperture was also some time ago somewhere at the top and now there's just no way anyone will chose it over Lightroom.

Motion 4 was to be AE killer and has come and gone without any dent to AE.

Shake is gone ,and if Shake's original designer is to be believed gone without succesor.

Soundtracks Pro 2 cost me many nights working overtime cuz it crashes so much that i have to save every 2 minutes. Look at the Soundtrack forums and you'll see. Its worse than Motion 1 ever was.

FCS workflow is becoming FC and compressor and off we go to CS4. Now with if i have time and become Premiere trained as i'm FC trained i'm dumping FC alltogether.

i'm sorry but waiting 2 years for an update and we get youtube and mobileme crap in PRO apps and THIS close to snow leo ? At least 64 bit and multi core aware throughout the suite was given i thought.
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post #50 of 120
7/23/09 at 12:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wally007 View Post

yea and watch it to decline soon. Aperture was also some time ago somewhere at the top and now there's just no way anyone will chose it over Lightroom.

Motion 4 was to be AE killer and has come and gone without any dent to AE.

Shake is gone ,and if Shake's original designer is to be believed gone without succesor.

Soundtracks Pro 2 cost me many nights working overtime cuz it crashes so much that i have to save every 2 minutes. Look at the Soundtrack forums and you'll see. Its worse than Motion 1 ever was.

FCS workflow is becoming FC and compressor and off we go to CS4. Now with if i have time and become Premiere trained as i'm FC trained i'm dumping FC alltogether.

i'm sorry but waiting 2 years for an update and we get youtube and mobileme crap in PRO apps and THIS close to snow leo ? At least 64 bit and multi core aware throughout the suite was given i thought.

Lightroom always had more users than Aperture.
Motion was NEVER promoted as a AE Killer
Shake successor - Buy Nuke
STP 2 - definite issues. Hopefully 3.0 improves stability.
Premier ain't bad.

FCS3 didn't live up to my "dreams" but then again I couldn't see Apple delivering a new major revamp of a Pro app sitting on a new major revamp of an OS. FCS is Leopard only so most of the pavement has been layed and moving it into Snow Leopard shouldn't be too hard.
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post #51 of 120
7/23/09 at 12:55pm
Speaking with Apple, they confirmed that the new Final Cut Studio will work with Snow. They did not say if it was 64.

Park
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post #52 of 120
7/23/09 at 12:57pm
The telling thing for me (being a college student who can't afford a full blown MBP with the dedicated graphics card is that the new system requirements seem to state that only non-integrated INTEL video cards won't do. So the NVidea 9400's will work? I guess I can see this if they optimized the code, but I was a little surprised by this one and am now seriously considering getting one of the lower end 13 or 15 inch MBPs. I know I won't be able to run Motion or Color flawlessly but it is sure is nice to know that I'm supposed to be able to run it as opposed to watching it load for a half hour on a non-supported setup (as I've heard).

Also, I haven't checked out pricing in a while, but I remember that the academic pricing for the pro apps used to be about a 50% cut. Now the new FCS and Logic suites are only reduced 10% or so? I guess this seems to be more in line with the rest of the academic pricing in the store, but that sure is not much of a discount for an academic version which (at last check) was not allowed to be upgraded and (legally) sold to someone else later on.
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post #53 of 120
7/23/09 at 1:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Park Seward View Post

Speaking with Apple, they confirmed that the new Final Cut Studio will work with Snow. They did not say if it was 64.

Park

Mike Curtis' review on Macworld.com seems to reference that it will run on Snow Leopard as is with slight benefit.

We'll likely have to wait a year until we get a Snow Leopard savvy version.
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post #54 of 120
7/23/09 at 1:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevinneal View Post

I like the way the screenshots now have glare on them to simulate how glossy apples screens are now

Yeah I noticed that too. But I distinctly *don't* like it! (no offense)
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post #55 of 120
7/23/09 at 1:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I don't know why they did not include it natively. My guess would be AVCHD is a consumer format that is not supported on any professional video camera.

It is 64 bit.

The basic layout of all professional nonlinear editing systems have been basically the same for nearly 20 years. What do you expect them to do differently? What makes you think most editors want it to change?

There is AVC-Intra support. I believe AVCHD is a version of H.264.

Please don't change the interface. Like with Pro Tools, I already know where the buttons are.
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post #56 of 120
7/23/09 at 1:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Park Seward View Post

Speaking with Apple, they confirmed that the new Final Cut Studio will work with Snow. They did not say if it was 64.

Park

I just talked to an Apple engineer and he said that "it is not 64-bit but there will likely be an update to make it 64-bit though I can't say that there will be one for sure."
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post #57 of 120
7/23/09 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Park Seward View Post

Speaking with Apple, they confirmed that the new Final Cut Studio will work with Snow. They did not say if it was 64.

Park

What a relief. Apple's own software will run on its OS.
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post #58 of 120
7/23/09 at 2:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cutter View Post

What a relief. Apple's own software will run on its OS.

No 64 bit , no Open CL and no Grand Central support.

IS this what took 2 years ?

Now if Adobe comes through ( which i have my doubts , especially Mac version ) but if they do , support 64bit in CS5 and make multithreading even better we're gonna be entering in dark ages of Adobe monopoly.
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post #59 of 120
7/23/09 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wally007 View Post

Who in their right mind is gonna invest their hard earned dollar in Apple video software anymore ?

Hyperbole.

Quote:
People complain about Adobe not being Cocoa and 64bit yet Apple is even worse.

Agreed.

Quote:
I'm sorry but im done wih FINAL CUT STUDIO. Only good app in there is Final Cut and they know it , thats why they bundle it with crap.

I guess you've never used Color. If you have and still think its crap, cool, if you haven't take my word, it is not crap.
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post #60 of 120
7/23/09 at 3:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post

Dang! This package is such a good Effin deal!!!
$999 for all that?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

yep. bit of a shocker really that they dropped the price point on this rather than staying steady like before.

It seems like the same thing they did with Final Cut Express, when they dropped the price, they dropped LiveType too. The page I can find on Apple's site still refers to the previous version of Final Cut Studio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

Man, they updated Logic Express but not Final Cut Express. =/

I have never seen FCE updated the same time as FCS. It's usually separated by a month or two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcZero View Post

The telling thing for me (being a college student who can't afford a full blown MBP with the dedicated graphics card is that the new system requirements seem to state that only non-integrated INTEL video cards won't do. So the NVidea 9400's will work? I guess I can see this if they optimized the code, but I was a little surprised by this one and am now seriously considering getting one of the lower end 13 or 15 inch MBPs. I know I won't be able to run Motion or Color flawlessly but it is sure is nice to know that I'm supposed to be able to run it as opposed to watching it load for a half hour on a non-supported setup (as I've heard).

Intel integrated graphics probably wasn't going to cut it. I would say that the 9400s would work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neruda View Post

I guess you've never used Color. If you have and still think its crap, cool, if you haven't take my word, it is not crap.

Color looks to be very powerful from the demonstrations I've seen, but it's still blindsided by poor UI. My look at it is from the previous version, it looks like Apple may have improved it for the new version. It just did not look or behave like an OS X app. It looks and behaves a lot more like an X11 style app from the 90's. If you're used to X11, then it's probably OK, but it is very out of place compared to regular OS X apps and the rest of the studio.
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post #61 of 120
7/23/09 at 3:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonglaji View Post

still no navtive AVCHD edit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by filburt View Post

Lack of native AVCHD is a big disappointment, as with lack of 64-bit and still crummy browser window.

Native AVCHD probably isn't a very good idea if you are at all concerned about render time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I don't know why they did not include it natively. My guess would be AVCHD is a consumer format that is not supported on any professional video camera.

Panasonic has at least two pro camcorders that are primarily AVCHD, maybe a few others that will record as AVCHD as an option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Park Seward View Post

There is AVC-Intra support. I believe AVCHD is a version of H.264.

AVC-I and AVCHD both use the same core AVC standard, but other than that, they aren't all that related. The most significant difference for editing is that AVC-I encodes every frame by itself, AVCHD records several intermediate frames in a larger group of pictures. And it's pretty processor intensive to compute those intermediate frames.
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post #62 of 120
7/23/09 at 3:20pm
Regarding the interface, I am not asking for complete overhaul like Apple did with iMovie '08. I am asking for usability and "look and feel" updates.

Take the browser window, for instance. On the list view, the app does not at all feel like other Mac OS X apps. Sort orders don't make much sense either. Now, I realize Final Cut Pro is a pro app, but so are Aperture and Logic, which sport similarly minimal and tiny pro interface but they still manage to behave and feel like Mac OS X apps.
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post #63 of 120
7/23/09 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Color looks to be very powerful from the demonstrations I've seen, but it's still blindsided by poor UI. My look at it is from the previous version, it looks like Apple may have improved it for the new version. It just did not look or behave like an OS X app. It looks and behaves a lot more like an X11 style app from the 90's. If you're used to X11, then it's probably OK, but it is very out of place compared to regular OS X apps and the rest of the studio.

Do you actually use Color? If all you have seen are demonstrations then I don't think you have any legitimate basis for your comments. Your comparison of Color's UI to X11 is not accurate. Color's UI is the way it is because it is a coloring app. Extraneous UI colors would be distracting.

Color is not crap just because you don't use it.
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post #64 of 120
7/23/09 at 3:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neruda View Post

Do you actually use Color? If all you have seen are demonstrations then I don't think you have any legitimate basis for your comments. Your comparison of Color's UI to X11 is not accurate. Color's UI is the way it is because it is a coloring app. Extraneous UI colors would be distracting.

Color is not crap just because you don't use it.

I've actually tried to use it.

It's not about the colors of the UI. The behavior and how things are styled are just way off. The text rendering of the UI has horrible kerning, or is just a bad font. If for some reason a monospaced font really is necessary, there has to be better ones. The tab shape is not consistent with anything else, even in Final Cut.

Take a look at the file open and save dialogue boxes and tell me that's not brain dead. The folder icon is needlessly different from what the Finder uses. And file names are addressed by unix convention, not OS X convention, such as /Volumes/DriveName/FileName rather than just DriveName/FileName.

Maybe you're willing to ignore such things, but it's not really something that follows any Mac OS or Pro App conventions to speak of.
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post #65 of 120
7/23/09 at 3:59pm
Which cameras are those? Every Panasonic camera I've used for pro shooting was either DVC ProHD or AVC-I.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Panasonic has at least two pro camcorders that are primarily AVCHD, maybe a few others that will record as AVCHD as an option.
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post #66 of 120
7/23/09 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Which cameras are those? Every Panasonic camera I've used for pro shooting was either DVC ProHD or AVC-I.

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp...GroupId=112502

It's a little more low-end than I remember, but still marketed as pro, and certainly not consumer pricing.
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post #67 of 120
7/23/09 at 4:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wally007 View Post

Now if Adobe comes through ( which i have my doubts , especially Mac version ) but if they do , support 64bit in CS5 and make multithreading even better we're gonna be entering in dark ages of Adobe monopoly.

John Nack at Adobe said 15 months ago that CS5 for OS X will be 32-bit.

Since then Adobe has released an official FAQ (pdf) on the subject confirming that.

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post #68 of 120
7/23/09 at 4:41pm
double post
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post #69 of 120
7/23/09 at 5:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wally007 View Post

No 64 bit , no Open CL and no Grand Central support.

Since those are all reportedly SL features, and that version of the OS isn't actually on the market yet, don't you think it's likely that they have to wait for that OS to come out of beta before releasing a SL-compatible version of software for it?

I'll lay 20/1 we get exactly those features in a simple update within days of SL's release.
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post #70 of 120
7/23/09 at 9:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Nah, Apple has been showing obvious signs of becoming luke warm towards authoring video on DVD. Apple won't release any major new applications for it.

Apple has added publishing directly to YouTube, MobileMe, and the iPhone right in Final Cut Pro. This shows what direction Apple is headed in. Publishing video to the web is more convenient, cheaper, and easier than authoring and burning DVD's.

That may be so, but I am a PRO Film/TV Editor. I NEED to send DISKS to colleagues, clients, broadcasters, cast members etc. It makes me look pretty lame when I have to tell my producer that I cannot burn him a bue-ray of his HD show, to screen on his 1080p TV at home. Especially after he just spent $25 000 on our FCP based HD edit suite. Pretty lame.
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post #71 of 120
7/23/09 at 9:27pm
I guess those can be labeled Prosumer at best. I've never seen anyone using them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp...GroupId=112502

It's a little more low-end than I remember, but still marketed as pro, and certainly not consumer pricing.
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post #72 of 120
7/23/09 at 9:36pm
The producer should know you cannot use FCS to author Blu-ray. You've never been able to.

I also work in film/televison, it's not a common request for the editors to deliver cuts on Blu-ray. Production workflow doesn't adopt new technology that quickly. There aren't very many people who even have Blu-ray burners or players.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kennethsteven View Post

That may be so, but I am a PRO Film/TV Editor. I NEED to send DISKS to colleagues, clients, broadcasters, cast members etc. It makes me look pretty lame when I have to tell my producer that I cannot burn him a bue-ray of his HD show, to screen on his 1080p TV at home. Especially after he just spent $25 000 on our FCP based HD edit suite. Pretty lame.
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post #73 of 120
7/23/09 at 9:42pm
Just when I am getting comfortable with few tricks I learned from Final Cut Pro 6, now there is 7.
It will be nice, except if I have to shell out big dollars to some smart ass to teach me how to use this?
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post #74 of 120
7/23/09 at 9:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

The producer should know you cannot use FCS to author Blu-ray. You've never been able to.

I also work in film/televison, it's not a common request for the editors to deliver cuts on Blu-ray. Production workflow doesn't adopt new technology that quickly. There aren't very many people who even have Blu-ray burners or players.

Its true that its not common to make Blue-ray screeners. But, I had two major broadcasters request them from me now. They want to screen the color correction in HD before approving it. Since they are across the country, they can't come to my suite and look at my broadcast monitor. An overnight Fedex of a Blue-ray may not be the same as being there, but its pretty close, and seems to me like something I should be able to do.

I know the uptake on new tech can be slow, but does it have to be non-existent?
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post #75 of 120
7/23/09 at 10:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

The producer should know you cannot use FCS to author Blu-ray. You've never been able to.

I also work in film/televison, it's not a common request for the editors to deliver cuts on Blu-ray. Production workflow doesn't adopt new technology that quickly. There aren't very many people who even have Blu-ray burners or players.

Producers generally don't care too much about the tech side of things, they just want to be able to get what they want/need. If another production house can deliver something and you can't, it just leaves you looking deficient - apple's fault or not. If it is something important enough to them, the producer will definitely "look at other options" when it comes to next job. That's my experience of producers, at least.
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post #76 of 120
7/23/09 at 10:59pm
You are describing a unique situation between you and those producers. It's not a normal request. Most people are sending screeners on DVD.

The larger post production companies I work around here in NY. Typically to deliver HD material the way you describe. They load the footage on a server, then send the client a URL with a password. With that they can download the footage and watch it. As far as I know none of them are set up to deliver Blu-ray at all.

Yes adoption of new technology can be very slow. Part of the reason for that is because post companies have spent so much money on their current workflow, they don't want to spend more unless they absolutely have to. In 2005 I saw post production comapnies still delivering in Betacam SP and Digital Betacam. Betacam SP is over 20 years old, DigiBeta is over 10 years old.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kennethsteven View Post

Its true that its not common to make Blue-ray screeners. But, I had two major broadcasters request them from me now. They want to screen the color correction in HD before approving it. Since they are across the country, they can't come to my suite and look at my broadcast monitor. An overnight Fedex of a Blue-ray may not be the same as being there, but its pretty close, and seems to me like something I should be able to do.

I know the uptake on new tech can be slow, but does it have to be non-existent?
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post #77 of 120
7/23/09 at 11:05pm
You are correct that producers can make unusual to outrageous requests. But still the request has to be within the reality of what can be done. Delivering in Blu-ray is not a common workflow. Virtually no one is set up to author Blu-ray deliverables.

I've seen it far more common to load footage on servers and stream it to the client.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

Producers generally don't care too much about the tech side of things, they just want to be able to get what they want/need. If another production house can deliver something and you can't, it just leaves you looking deficient - apple's fault or not. If it is something important enough to them, the producer will definitely "look at other options" when it comes to next job. That's my experience of producers, at least.
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post #78 of 120
7/24/09 at 5:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

Man, they updated Logic Express but not Final Cut Express. =/

Actually they didn't, Logic Express doesn't get an update until next month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclarenf1 View Post

I just called Apple Final Cut Tech Support and they confirmed that the New Final Cut 7 is fully 64 bit with Open CL support for the new Snow Leopard. They said it was state on the web site under www.apple.com/finalcutstudio........ yeah, good luck finding it under that GENERAL location.

Anyway, they did say it was fully 64 but with Open CL for what it's worth.

So has anyone actually found that info on the apple site? I hate to say it, but I'll bet the tech support guy was wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

It is 64 bit.

What is? The app, or AVCHD?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wally007 View Post

Soundtracks Pro 2 cost me many nights working overtime cuz it crashes so much that i have to save every 2 minutes. Look at the Soundtrack forums and you'll see. Its worse than Motion 1 ever was.

Amen to that. The new info on STP3 is meaningless to me, the only thing that matters is that it actually works right, like STP1 and STP2 never did.
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post #79 of 120
7/24/09 at 7:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxplanar View Post

Since those are all reportedly SL features, and that version of the OS isn't actually on the market yet, don't you think it's likely that they have to wait for that OS to come out of beta before releasing a SL-compatible version of software for it?

I'll lay 20/1 we get exactly those features in a simple update within days of SL's release.

By the time this new FCS ships Snow Leopard is going to be days away. FCS delivery says 2-6 weeks. Snow leopard is 8 weeks away.

No way Grand Central and 64-bit is small update away. These things take years to rewrite to be 64 bit. Many people in the industry were pretty certain Apple was busy doing just that when they didnt release anything last year.

Best talent ( working on Pro apps ) probably took off when apple nixed Shake team and what was left of scare resources went into iPhone OS.
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post #80 of 120
7/24/09 at 7:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

John Nack at Adobe said 15 months ago that CS5 for OS X will be 32-bit.

Since then Adobe has released an official FAQ (pdf) on the subject confirming that.

wwhere exactly is the part where it says CS5 is going to be 32 bit on Mac ?

here's a quote from article you linked

" (Our goal is to ship a 64-bit Mac version with Photoshop CS5, "

nobody needs Fireworks , dreamweaver or go live to be 64bit. If PS and AE make it to 64bit , everyone is gonna be happy camper.
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