Palm fires back at Apple, fixes Pre sync with iTunes - Page 4

Trademark law doesn't have anything to do with iTunes code. Trademark law applies when companies do something that make consumers likely to confuse their product with another. Thus, tricking computers is not trademark violation, tricking people is. Telling people your product can sync with iTunes does not make a reasonable consumer think its an Apple product.

If having the Pre communicate with iTunes as if it was an iPod were illegal, many things, such as proxies, would also be illegal.

The Pre presents itself in iTunes as an iPod, which is where I think they were going with that.

Agreed, if Palm wanted to achieve syncing with iTunes music & video they should have written their own app that reads the iTunes XML info & then lists up it's own version of your library to sync.

Palm is crazy to think they can fight a legal battle in their current weakened state. Only reason Apple hasn't nailed them to the wall yet is probably because it would make for bad PR.

I see no reason why Apple shouldn't allow Palm Pre owners to sync with iTunes. After all, anyone who is well versed in strategic decision making knows that while it is good to keep your friends close (in this case, Apple's own users), it is even better to keep your enemies closer (users of products made by Apple's rivals). In other words, it behooves Apple to allow users of rivals' products (e.g. Palm Pre owners) access to iTunes. By locking those users out, Apple may inadvertently force them to look elsewhere for their media library solutions; Apple may also force the competition (Palm) to look to Microsoft (etc) for syncing solutions, or Palm may choose to innovate and compete directly with iTunes itself, which may or may not be in Apple's best interest. To automatically assert that Apple should shut its rivals out of iTunes because it is Apple's software shows a lack of strategic foresight from Apple's perspective.

Except that iPods, not iTunes are what is more valuable to Apple. Keeping the system locked may threaten iTunes, but unlocking it would threaten iPods.

This is all getting silly and making both companies look bad. Palm looks bad for their devious ways to get itunes to sync, and apple looks bad by going out of their way to block it showing that they give a damn.

Apple should take the high road and say fuck it.

And whatever my electronics tell each other has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not trademark law is violated. Its only if I reasonably might think they are something there not, such as if Palm marketed the Pre as the Apple Pre, that trademark law is implicated.

Well, if you're a Mac owner, you got used to substandard service and attention from Palm a long time ago, so if you're a Mac owner and a Pre owner, you probably don't really expect much in the way of support anyway. If you're a Wintel owner, you'll be used to it soon.

The whole Pre concept is based on Palm not investing any resources to support the device. Not only have they not created their own music sync solution, they haven't really created a sync solution for anything on the device: everything piggybacks on something else. Of course, they market this as "connecting you to the cloud," but the reality is that the whole device and how it works is a giant hack.

If it weren't for Palm's history of neglecting users, I'd just put this down to the fact that they are so cash-strapped they can barely get a new device out the door, but it may go deeper than that. Palm is not a company that anyone should ever depend on for anything that matters.

Better think again....

What Palm has done is ensure every future iPod will have to authenticate to iTunes. For everyone who wondered WTF when they found out the new earbuds with volume/pause/skip controls have some sort of authentication chip, this is why.

It would be a different situation if iTunes were meant to strictly support iPods and iPhones AND there were no iTunes music store OR if music purchased from the iTunes store was meant to be played only on iPods / iPhones.

Apple doesn't necessarily have the responsibility to fully support non-Apple devices but it shouldn't prevent syncing either.

Microsoft formed restrictive licensing agreements with computer manufactuers to ensure that IE was the only browser featured.

Last time I checked, you don't sync your iPod via the audio jack. Stop making silly claims. I agree the path Palm is taking is stupid but silly arguments don't help that overall Apple perspective either. Palm is exploiting a gap. You can bet if Apple closes that gap it will be seemless to the iPod user.

With this type of behavior Palm goes very low, it's a shame for a company like that. Also, they only are looking to everybody as Apple "ass-smellers", and they are claiming that they are very behind Apple and innovation. In other words they are recognizing Apple as their Daddy. Stupid moves make product failures. Today they have buried their "iPhone Killer" forever.

All you Pre owners - how does it feel to realize you basically own a fake iPod??
Your own phone says so...

Palm for a once proud organisation now stoops to parasitic behaviour. That should be the headline. How can they hold their heads up. In order for them to survive they have to leach off Apple!

This is not a stupid move for Palm, and emulating Apple is not a 'killer' for them; it is a non-issue. Consumers don't buy products, or not buy products, because they think 'Ah! This copies Apple! Yes!' or 'No! This copies Apple! Yuck!' They often buy emotionally and impulsively, based on their perceptions of the device. How could this move 'sink' their product?

ITunes compatibility is likely a plus for them, as long as they can maintain it.

None of this is a problem at all. Palm can use a third party software to use the iTunes library or actually do some work and create their own syncing software. Right now this is a clash of egos with Pre users as the loosers.

Why would you think they would even care as long as it works?

Palm would provide a better experience for it's users if they actually had some control over the PC syncing software. Software they don't control and can be broken with an update is not a good situation.

I think Apple should grow up and allow an application provided with a computer purchase to sync with other people's hardware, not just Apple hardware.

They should do this by creating a standard sync protocol that lets the device provide an icon, name, and capabilities supported to iTunes, and then iTunes can send the data supported to the device. Apple can dictate the data transmission protocols and formats.

Let the devices stand on their own legs. The iPhone is superior, other devices are no threat - currently.

Yes they did. First of all, it automatically installed or came as the default browser. Then it couldn't be uninstalled. You could only get rid of the icon from the desktop. And lastly, Microsoft forced or tricked their developers to write using their own version of Java. Instead of Sun Java. Since Netscape was optimized for Sun Java, many websites written with MS Java wouldn't open properly in Netscape (if at all.). So the consumers was forced to use IE when visiting websites that were written using MS Java. Eventually, so many websites were written with MS Java that the consumers just kept IE as their default browser and never bother with Netscape. If MS had not forced or tricked their developers to use MS Java, Netscape may had had a chance. As it was the better browser at the time.

Good god- how many software updates for iTunes does this mean we will get this year?
I'd like to start a class action lawsuit for that inconvenience alone.

Yeah, I guess I wouldn't expect they care about finer details like that to begin with - after all they did by a Pre on a Sprint contract so they can't have too much of a standard for excellence. But it would definitely bug me - if the maker of the device I trust so much with my personal details couldn't even figure out (or care to figure out) how to change an icon.

I agree. I don't understand why everyone is getting their collective panties in a bunch. It would be great if Apple exposed an API for iTunes synchronization. I think it would increase their dominance in online music sales. I think Apple is being short-sighted. They don't have to support anything that syncs to iTunes except their own product(s). The only thing they'd need to do is provide good documentation and a good forum for developers to report bugs... and I believe they already do that for their software offerings.

I think Apple users have for so long been the underdog that it effects judgement. I've never seen so many cases of extreme fanboy-ism. It's unnerving. But, I guess that's the world today - react before thinking.

Yes, I'm a Mac owner. I just bought my 4th Mac. I love the platform.

uninstallability - what a lovely word...

You need a better understanding of this dynamic. Micosoft was already a monopoly and chose to limit other browsers on their dominant Windows OS in favor of their own Internet Explorer. Apple tied the iPod and iTunes together as part of their well conceived strategy to become the market leader. And it's worked. This is how they've always done it. There's nothing new here. The Mac and Mac OS are closely tied. It's a closed system approach. Unlike Microsoft's open system approach. The EU recognizes this and has stated that Apple's iPod/iTunes closed system is not illegal. There's no evil on Apple's part, just good old fashioned competition. Palm uses a hack to trick iTunes into thinking it's an iPod. That's where the evil lies.

You're complaining about Apple being evil, yet you're willing to overlook the obvious evil in Palm's action. Just look at what Palm did! They HACKED the competitor's application to force it to work with their device and that's somehow okay with you? The simple solution is for Palm to build their own media software and music store for the Pre customer.

You just don't get it. THERE IS SOFTWARE that allows third-party MP3 players (including phones) to sync to iTunes - people have mentioned them several times. Apple has no problem with this. All Palm has to do is put this software on the Pre, or instruct users how to get it, or develop their own version, or buy out some developer.

What Palm is doing is hacking Apple software, to fool it into thinking the Pre is an actual iPod. This is, pure and simply, hacking. It's unethical, and probably illegal in some way. For Palm to rely on this method, instead of producing a simple software program, is ridiculous. Palm doesn't have to build an entire iTunes-like ecosystem - just an app that legitimately interacts with iTunes.

No, that would be a line that Apple has had opportunity to cross with other vendors and hasn't.

That's the point: THEY DO! It's XML, the file system and USB. Blackberry does this right. Palm doesn't.

Yes, man. More people than you think buy their products thinking 'this is original and this other is a copy', some prefer to pay less when a product is a copy just to have something similar, and others prefer to pay less because didn't have enough money to spend. But what its true is that they really want the original and when they can they buy it.

Now the iTunes syncing isn't something that Palm should sell as a 'feature' of its device because, as long as is convenient for users of the Pre, is something done in the wrong manner using others software without permission. If Apple has done something similar its wrong too, is thiefing anothers work. There's no way Palm are doing the right thing, and it's a bad, very bad publicity campaign when you talk shit about a competitor and then you use their tools for your rival product. Yes, is stupid.

How this move sinks the Pre? See: Now everybody's notion is that Palm is an imitator when they connect their Pres and iTunes recognizes as an iPod. At that very moment, subconciously you are acting in those users minds, and everytime they connect their Pres they always innevitably think about the iPhone and its cool features, and that what they have it's just a copy of that. It's a bad step. It is the same wrong direction every other makers are taking, trying to do the same things the iPhone do, you can't compete with Apple copying their stuff, you have to be original as they are. That's the reason why nobody will kill the iPhone in the next years. How many years? I don't know, but by now iPhone will be the king, like it or not, and the Pre is very far from that throne.

There is a difference between not supporting the pre and actively breaking Pre's syncing capabilities. Despite the fact that it is pretty lame that Palm does not provide their users with their own syncing software, I feel this is a battle that Apple is going to lose. Palm may be childish here, Apple is too. Why doesn't Apple license out the sync module to Palm? After all, MS has done the same with their exchange protocols, and we are all very happy with that. And why should Apple take the risk that Palm does team up with other parties and does create a viable alternative for the itunes universe? Just let these guys hook up and be confident that ipod/iphone is still the best out there.

FAIL!

• Apple did not "write" the "malware" which some people discovered when they installed an illegally shared copy of iWork09 downloaded through BitTorrent.
• Your entire comment is so utterly asinine I wonder why you even bothered to post it.

If your printer or video card didnt come with drivers to work with the OS, do you blame the OS company instead of the manufacturer? Palm HAS TO take responsibility to write driver/sync software for its own device just like every manufacturer.

Apple doesn't owe its competitors anything. It has nothing to do with anti-trust, etc.

I gave that ugly Zen to your hot lusty wife. I cant believe she likes it. Dont blame Apple because Zen manufacturer was too lazy to write SW for it. Stop trolling.

really ?? The pre is a piece of shit phone with broken cracked bubbled screens that can't even play music . The Iphone 3g kills the pre.

YOU are too dull to know this but each time msft makes a change to its OS
apple has to update /patch its itunes.
since 85 percent of all itunes is installed on a windows machine then how can you blame apple ???

And msft can reall;y screw pre by waiting for magic mass sign PRE up moment amd make a major change to vista .

Why you hate apple is beyond me, apple is just the best device maker ever. No other company cares as much for its clients like apple /
NO OTHER COMPANY COMES CLOSE DUDE .

so go love sprint and pre and leave apples to apples

NO IPHONE FOR YOU

HA HA this guy missed the fact that itunes is a windows mostly software
85 to 14

And that makes a difference because?

No, you my friend are "FAIL" because you can't detect sarcasm or read, I posted a similar response to this later in the thread.

Yeah, but if Apple licensed access to iTunes, they WOULD make money. Just figure out an algorithm that offsets iPod losses with Pre license fees. You could even make it big, like $100 per Pre or so. Apple makes money off the few people that buy a Pre. The Pre doesn't really compete with the iPhone/iPod anyway - esp. re apps, so why not?!?!?!

Again this is just about figuring out the right price. Then the Pre becomes the iPhone's red haired cousin and actually begins to depend upon Apple. I think they could have done this with Scandisk and others, just make it expensive enough that you make money off of the people that weren't going to buy an Apple product anyway.

PLUS if they bought all their music on iTunes, even iTunes +, they are more likely to upgrade to the next revolutionary, cool Apple thing than they are to the incrementally better Palm device.

If its just about money, just set a price.
If its just about market share, just keep the innovative lead and people's mindshare on iTunes.
If its about ego and not partnering with Palm, just get over it. They are no threat.